WHY NOT IRAN?

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
SBM
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WHY NOT IRAN?

#1

Unread post by SBM » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:59 am

The largest Shia population and the only country with Shia ruling is Iran but I never heard Syedna or any one from Kothar going to Iran, meeting with Ayatullah or having Bohra(Taheri) markaz in Iran
While they are busy bribing or cajoling, (I might say unsuccessfully) Kuwaitis who consider them NON MUSLIM, they have avoided Iran which has similar views as us. Can any one shed some light on it.

S. Insaf
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#2

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:17 pm

Late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb supported Mohammed Ali Jinah whole-heartedly but when was formed neither he shifted his seat to Pakistan or he allowed India Bohras to leave India. Reason as spelled out by Prof. Faizee was that Sayedna was affraid that he would not able continue his un-Islamic activites there.
Militancy of Iranian Muslims is well-known. The way Sayedna uses the name of Maula Ali and Imam Husain for his personal gains could not be tolerated in Iran.
Dr. Asghar Ali is often invited to places like Tehran, Shiraz in Iran for his lectures on Islam and in discussion after his lecture many Iranian scholars have expressed their anger against Bohra head's policy of exploiting Shia traditions.
Bohra head runs his business in the name of Fatemi Dawat having its roots in Yemen, Egypt etc and not in Iran.
In other gulf countries including Kuwait he Goes as Bohra Sultan.
That could be one of the reasons for him and his family members not stepping on Iran's soil.

S. Insaf
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#3

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:19 pm

Sorry, please read as
.........but when Pakistan was formed......

Gulf
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#4

Unread post by Gulf » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:31 pm

With Iran, We have shiaa sect. traditional knowledge dealing and further studies relation about shiaism and relations are very stong, as per their vision we are very respected shiaa community.

for your info.

SBM
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#5

Unread post by SBM » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:39 pm

Gulp
Can you please give your source of information regarding your last post.

Hussain_KSA
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#6

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:58 pm

Iranian are Stanch follower of twelve Imams. They strongly oppose the division at the time of Imam Jafar Us Sadiq.

At the time of president Hashmi Rafsanjani a special movment has been started to bring back the ismailies in to main fold and as a result number of nizari ismaili become shia ithna ashri followers.

Although iranian do respect other religions but they don't allow the preaching of other religion on their sole.

There is no Imam (to whome we follow) or dai burried in Iran so it is useless to visit there.

East Africawalla
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#7

Unread post by East Africawalla » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:00 am

Husain, I agree there is nothing in Iran for us , no Ziyaraats , they follow a different brand to ours and are very intolerant to other sects.

Aarif
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#8

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:19 pm

Br. OB,

My 2 cents:

Iran is one of the most fundamentalist countries as far as Islam is considered. In fact Iran is the land of sucide bombers. The first sucide bomber in the world was an Iranian. However, they do not call it sucide, they call it martyrdom. They compare each sucide bomber with an follower of Imam Husain and the battle field as Karbala. In fact when Iran was fighting against Iraq they called Saddam as Yezid and the battle between Iran and Iraq as the battle of Karbala. Particularly after Ayatollah Khomeini Iran has become the most fundamentalist country in the world. We all know how Syedna and Kothar follows Islam. I think Syedna and company is very smart to stay away from Iran. They might be internally knowing that Iran is not going to welcome them with open arms after all the innovations they have been doing to our religion lately...

SBM
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#9

Unread post by SBM » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:46 pm

Dear Arif
I beg to differ about suicide bomber. It is generally accepted fact even in West that 1st suicide bomber was a Tamil woman who blew herself along with Rajive Gandhi.
We have been fighting in USA to tell West that Muslims are not the innovator of Suicide Bombing, it was Japanese who during WWII did Kamakazee stunts and Tamil are the one in recent history who started suicide bombing

JC
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#10

Unread post by JC » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:49 pm

Bro Areef and OB

... then it makes Saudi Arabia far considerate though taheris keep on cursing SA as wahabi and sunni and stuf though Iran is bro SHIA country ....

Taheris are right in a way saying there is NO ziarat in Iran for them - but come on it the only SHIA country in the world, even for name sake, your bhagwan should visit Iran atleast, again after all he claims to be dai of hussain ....

Aarif
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#11

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:09 pm

I beg to differ about suicide bomber. It is generally accepted fact even in West that 1st suicide bomber was a Tamil woman who blew herself along with Rajive Gandhi.
Br. OB,

Sorry but you need to check your facts.. There is a very good documentory film called "Cult of Sucide Bomber". Please see it.. The first sucide bomber was way back before Rajiv Died...

In fact Sri Lankans were inspired from this.. I have seen the film and it is based on historic facts so no doubts about that...

See the URL below for the film details. It clearly mentions IRAN...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0817498/

Aarif
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#12

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:13 pm

Bro JC,

According to me Syedna is an excellent business man. Going to Iran is no way a good business proposition as it makes no sense in terms of monetory benefits. Hope you get your answer..

Alislam
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#13

Unread post by Alislam » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:48 am

Suicide bombing in some form or the other had been used throughout history.

Japanese used it during world war II.

Iranians are not involved in any suicide bombing anywhere in the world like Al-Qaeda/Talibans.

During Iran-Iraq war they may have used it, but that is common during any war, to sacrifice your life in order to save others life.

Aarif
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#14

Unread post by Aarif » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:35 pm

Iranians are not involved in any suicide bombing anywhere in the world like Al-Qaeda/Talibans.
Iranians are the ones who transported the concept of suicide bombing in Palestine. You should see the film that I have mentioned. It clearly shows all the details with historic data, places etc...

Apart from that suicide bombing is only used in wars. There is no other reason to kill oneself knowingly using a bomb. Al Qaeda is fighting war against the west. Iran did it against Iraq and also helped Palestine against Israel. Also, note that the Sunni world took a long time to accept suicide bombing as a legitimate form of Jihad. They got into this game much later. Its just that Iran did not use suicide bombing against America in America. Otherwise by now you would have come to know all the details inside out about its cult. ;)

Alislam
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#15

Unread post by Alislam » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:34 pm

Iran is currently the only Islamic country which has not bowed down to the US tactics and call it "Bada Shaitan".

It is not like the other muslim countries, esp the GCC who are self-centered and will go to any extent in supporting the US.

Aarif
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#16

Unread post by Aarif » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:48 pm

Br. Alislam,

I think we are talking two different things.. I have respect for Iran as a Shia muslim country. I was just trying to present some facts on suicide bombing. Hope this clears the confusion..

accountability
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#17

Unread post by accountability » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:56 pm

Iran has a three thousand years old history. Iranians are basically zorastarians. islam is a foriegn religion to iranian culture.

I have witnessed events prior to and post revoloution. I was invited (I was the president of my college's chapter of National Student federation, and the president of the student union. we were close to left leaning party of Khan abdul wali khan's National Awami Party). we were invited by our iranian counterpart Mujahideen e khalq. who was represented by the first post revoloution iranian president abul hassan bani sadr.

We had a meeting with president bani sadr at his home in tehran. that was in 1980. some of our members had to go through lot of hassle on return, as zia ul haq's regime was anti left and democracy. Dr Bani Sadr was a fine gelntlemen, a real statsman and true socialist. Many people may take the iranian revoloution totally orchestrated by khomeni. but that is half true, khalqis were the also very active and they have provided popular support for revoloution. but soon after the revoloution, khomeni formed pasdaran. the aim was to break khalqis and strangulate any dissent to clergy's monopoly.

what i witnessed, was totally different popular perception, than in rest of the world. iranians were skeptical about religious clergy, they wanted socialists in government, but as time passed, pasdaran got control over everything, bani sadr had to flee to paris.

having said that, iranian clergy is very true to shiism, their ayotallahs, and top clergy are dedicated priest with almost no material ambitions except their twisted ideology. contrary to that our clergy's family is knee deep in materialism, they brandish expensive cars, first class travels, palaces etc.

they have twisted religion in such a way, to form a cult of its members. OUr clergy's take on karbala event is just rhetorical, and not revoloutionery. Also to make syedna saheb above everytihg, they have twisted the basics of all religions, so as to use the name for what ever is happening.

Iran is an anti element for our present bohra administration, forging ties with iran shall diminish their own worthiness, and if people to people relations are built, there will be lot of questions to be answered.

Alislam
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#18

Unread post by Alislam » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:43 am

I think we are talking two different things.. I have respect for Iran as a Shia muslim country. I was just trying to present some facts on suicide bombing. Hope this clears the confusion..

--- Agree

Muslim First
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#19

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:23 pm

.

Br. Alislam

AS
having said that, iranian clergy is very true to shiism, their ayotallahs, and top clergy are dedicated priest with almost no material ambitions except their twisted ideology. contrary to that our clergy's family is knee deep in materialism, they brandish expensive cars, first class travels, palaces etc.
Not true totally;

Top Ayatollah may be very religious but lower cadre is vey corrupt including Rafsanjani the former premier.In Iran clergy's family is also knee deep in materialism, they brandish expensive cars, first class travels, palaces etc.

Wasalaam
.

Hussain_KSA
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#20

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:46 pm

Brother Muslim First,

Did you ever visit Iran? I think you are just talking on behalf of media reprot.

As per my observation during my visit to Tehran and again during Hajj here in Makkah I have observed them very closely. I came to conclusion they are better than our religious leaders. I have a picture of President Mahmood Ahmdi Nejad during the hajj of 2007 where he is traveling in a small pick up van with ordinary shia piligrims. I wish if I could post that picture here. The hatred just because some one belong the other sect of Islam is not worthy at all.

Aarif
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#21

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:23 pm

A/C and Husain Bhai.

I agree with you. The current bohra clergy has a lot of business sense and no religious attachment at all. According to me Syedna is one of the best business brains we have in bohra community. He is minting money like anything. If you consider Kothar's total assets you will realize that it is definitely one of India's leading company. In fact it is the biggest private ltd comp in India... ;)

Muslim First
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Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#22

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:31 pm

Br. Hussain

AS
Did you ever visit Iran? I think you are just talking on behalf of media reprot.
I have Iranians working for me and 2 of them just came back from Iran. These are no Shah backers. Clergy is on top in Iran and there is corruption.
The hatred just because someone belong the other sect of Islam is not worthy at all.
I have no problem as far as sect of Iranians. I have some strong opinions but I am happy that they are standing up to big bullies.

Wasalaam
.

accountability
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: WHY NOT IRAN?

#23

Unread post by accountability » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:02 pm

MF: As I said, the top clergy is not corrupt in Iran. I also said, that islam is a foriegn religion to iranians. In their 3000 years history, except last 3 decades, there never was a staunch islamic aura in iran.

If you talk to iranians, they are very secular and despise the religious interference in their lives. I am sure, once this so called revoloution is over, another three thousand years will see a secular iran. their animosity towards arab world is very obvious.

Ayotullahs have very smartly put a lid on popular sentiments. they are using force (pasdaran), religion, democracy, to some extent a corruption free top clergy. it is yet to be seen, for how long will they be able to tame a civilized nation with carrot and stick.

Ahmedinijad is not a mulla, unlike his precedesors, he is a revoloutionary pasdar. Being mayor of Tehran for more than a decade, he has set records. Tehran public transport is in better shape than in many countries, there is a quasi welfare system in place in Tehran. Ahmedinijad was Ayotullah's best bet. Ayotullah,s are not happy, with the way he is dealing with Big Satan. He was asked to play lip service only, but he is doing more than that. it is yet to see, how far and how long he is tolerated.