Burial Places of Imams

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#31

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:54 pm

So the conclusion can be drawn that Fatimid Imams graves disappeared because they never had support of the masses or in other words they ruled Egypt with tyranny. If this is the case than it proves how tomb of Imam Husain exists as of this date despite of the fact that it was completely destroyed and leveled to ground during Abbasid’s period and during the last century when Wahabis raided the tomb all the way from Hejaz to Iraq with sole intention of complete destruction like they did in “Baqih” on the name of religion and thus a very important piece of Muslim history banished forever.

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#32

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:37 pm

[QUOTE] The preaching of Ismilism was also done as a secrete mission. In brief there were lot of people who wanted to root out Ismilism and its followers. Whatever we find in history about them is all hearsay. So is the case with Imams of Nizari (Khoja) faction. [QUOTE]

Still talking like an ignoramus. Have you really read Daftary's book? or any book for that matter to arrive at the conclusion. Or is your Imam Maherally teaching you this nonsense! The two of you, go hand in hand, or rather glove and hand.

People like Anne Marie Schimmel and Karen Armstrong, who have taught at Harvard and Oxford are "hearsay" writers and you MFr and Potty Mouth are the authoritative sources.

No wonder the internet labels you guys as Pervert Sunnis and Bohoras and not Progressive Bohoras.

Yes, there were a lot of people who wanted to root out Ismailis and to this day they still want to including some of you in this forum, but the laugh is on you. Mongols couldn't so how can ignoramuses like you?

Brother Sajjid, Imam Ismail's tomb is in Syria and so are the tombs of Radhi Abdullah, Wafi Ahmed and Taqi Mohammed. Bohoras use their ilkabs so the names are slightly different, but many Bohoras go to Salamiyeh and do the ziyarats of these Imams. In fact, Syedna has restored the tomb of Imam Radhi Abdullah.

Now, MFr read my post above.

African

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#33

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:09 pm

MFr

If after the fall of Fatimid Empire the Ayyubids had not thrown the Ismaili literature and books from their libraries into the river Nile, you guys would not be talking from your rear end. But the Ayyubids did not want to know the truth, neither did they want the world to know that, (just like you and Maherally) so they threw the books into the Nile and used the covers made of crocodile skins to make their shoes. This is how the billions, rather 2.158b make use of the Prophet Sunnah, in which he said, to get knowledge one should go to China if the knowledge can be got from there.

But these 2,158b don't want knowledge, they want suicide bombers, 72 houris, young brides, ignorant females, etc. List is long. Read the turbos from the turbonauck for more! I haven't seen you condemn any of them as yet! At least Potty Mouth has!

Again during Alamut destruction, the first thing that went into flames was library! Children were thrown into ditches on the point of the swords! Still the faith survived.

Hasn't Allah S.W.T. said he will protect His Light?

Don't tell me he was referring to the Qur'an. He has not been able to protect it, because look how you all are interpreting it and destroying and distorting his words to suit your agendas! Thirteen years after the revealation Umar changed 3 prescriptions of the Qur'an and you dumb a..s are still following them. Not only did he change the prescriptions but the Adhan was altered by Othman. In other words, even the Sunnah was changed. We have been over this before. Go to the archives to read instead of barking, barking and chasing your own tails.

Say what you want gutter mouths, the Light is shining from corner to corner of the world. Once again Ismaili flag is flying in Cairo, Africa, Canada, Portugal, Uk. This is just the beginning. Ask the people in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Syria, Ivory Coast, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Mozambique, Madagascar,etc. how their lives have been changed by Aga Khan and Ismailis. Blindmen cannot see that read sura Yaseen wherein Allah says, he has covered "their eyes and ears". In other words you are blind and dumb and Allah S.W.T. made that choice. Look how many of your billions are still ignorant in this world. The illiteracy is the highest among the Muslims except the Ismailis, Bohoras, Suffis and of course the Twelvers. What do you think is the reason, huh? I would love to know this.
Proud African

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#34

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:51 pm

Don't tell me he was referring to the Qur'an. He has not been able to protect it,
So the Ismailis believe that the current quran is not the one revealed by Allah, right?

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#35

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:05 am

So the Ismailis believe that the current quran is not the one revealed by Allah, right?
Did I say the Ismailis believe that? What I say is what I believe, I cannot speak for the 15 million of them. Nor am I going to impose my beliefs on your 1.258B.

African

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#36

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:10 am

So the Ismailis believe that the current quran is not the one revealed by Allah, right?
Did I say the Ismailis believe that? What I say is what I believe, I cannot speak for the 15 million of them. Nor am I going to impose my beliefs on your 1.258B.

The current Qur'an is Allah's word which Allah has not been able to protect, because Umar changed the prescriptions not the writing but prescriptions. Do you understand the difference?
Your Mullahs have interpreted it the way they want to as long as their "mission is accomplished". If you all used your intellect, Islam would not be in shambles.Go back to archives and reread what I had said, neither you nor MF ever responded instead you guys always diverted the discussion.

African

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#37

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:21 am

because Umar changed the prescriptions not the writing but prescriptions.
What prescription? The dosage that the Ismailis have to take?
The current Qur'an is Allah's word which Allah has not been able to protect,
So the Ismailis believe that the current quran is not the one revealed by Allah, right?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#38

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:29 am

The current Qur'an is Allah's word which Allah has not been able to protect,
Looks like the Allah you believe in is deficient. If your Allah is deficient, imagine the state of his followers. When your Allah cannot protect his word, how can you trust the word of an Ismaili?

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#39

Unread post by Danish » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:30 am

Originally posted by anajmi:
... the current quran is not the one revealed by Allah, right?
Right! Never was, never will.

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#40

Unread post by S. Insaf » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:34 am

Dear Danish,
As a poet I alway wonder how I get revelations and write a couplet or a poem?
If an ordinary man like me can get revelations because I am concerned about the plight of some suffering people around me than how can a man of extraordinary qualities of heart and mind,the holy Prophet not get revealation? The Prophet of Islam, when he came of age, found an extremely disturbing situation in Mecca, the birth place of Islam. He was a man of scruplously upright conduct which won him the title of Ameen (the trusted one), he was greatly perturbed and set about to search for a solution and to guide him in his search the part by part the guidance was revealed which when compiled became the Quran.
So yes the Quran is a revealed book for the guidance of the entire humanity.

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#41

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:48 pm

Bhai Africawala0000:

My first request is to be patient and do not use lanuage which does not suite to a person of your intelect. We are sharing our views without humilating others.

As per bohrah and twelver's history Imam Ismail was burried in "Baqih" and his tomb was destroyed by Wahabbis not in Sulamania as you said. Can you please tell us about Imam Radhi Abdullah and other personalities mentioned in your blog? I appologise for my ignorance.

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#42

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:33 pm

Dear brothr Sajjid:
My first request is to be patient and do not use lanuage which does not suite to a person of your intelect. We are sharing our views without humilating others.
To be patient is what I want to be but you cannot be patient with jahaliyas who do not understand civility. You have to talk to them at their level if humility fails because that is the language they understand. See the way they talk and write about Ismailis. They try to intimidate you with their foul language.

Now as to your second request:
As per bohrah and twelver's history Imam Ismail was burried in "Baqih" and his tomb was destroyed by Wahabbis not in Sulamania as you said. Can you please tell us about Imam Radhi Abdullah and other personalities mentioned in your blog? I appologise for my ignorance.
Now some Historians will tell you that Imam Jafar as Sadiq had several sons of whom Ismail al-Aaraj (the lame) was one and Ismail al-Akbar (also known as Abdullah al-Aftah) It was Ismail (the lame) who had died and not Ismail al-Akbar (who had been appointed as Imam).
I had heard from a bohora friend that the two Ismails were twins.

It is believed that Ismail al-Aaraj is buried in Baqi and the Ismaili and Bohora Imam Ismail is buried in Sulaymania.

The successive Imams after Muhammad bin Ismail, Wafi Ahmed and Taqi Muhammad together with a baby are buried in Syria atop a mountain (I forgot the name) and I have been there. I have also been to Imam Radhi Abdullah's mausoleum which is adjacent to the Mosque both of which were restored by the current Syedna. Sunnis pray in the Masjid and Nizari Ismailis and bohoras pray in the Mausoleum. Under the mausoleum used to be a huge underground library and an exit to far away tunnel in case the Abbasids followed the Imam. It is believed that Ikhwan al-Safa, i.e. the 52 volumes written by Imam Taqi Mohammed were stored below. To this day there is a small ladder leading to the tunnel but that is all. Library was destroyed by fire. There is a long story behind it but I am not sure how far this is true.

From what I know, bohoras believe that Imam Ismail was buried in Sulamania. I had read before dawr al-Satr was over some people had seen Imam Ismail in Basra (Basra not in Iraq, but a town in Syria). He was passing himself off as a merchant. However, his cover was blown and he came out in open.

Hope this helps. Africawala

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#43

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:35 am

If Ismail is buried in Sulemaniya than
how about Saheefa Gharra, the current edition compiled from selections of the late wife of Sayedna which mentioned that the 7th Imam is buried in Ferghana and the 13th Imam is buried in Mehdiya.

Either you or Syedna wife is wrong.

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#44

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:14 am

Bhai Husain:

What ever is written in Sahifa is just compilation of history from various sources and so as quoted in various historical books. Ismail research center in London has done valauble research. Despite of having all resources at his disposal Syedna has done nothing in this regard except wasting resources on making Zaris. His contribution in field of science, education and research is zero.

jamanpasand
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#45

Unread post by jamanpasand » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:35 am

Ask the people in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Syria, Ivory Coast, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Mozambique, Madagascar,etc. how their lives have been changed by Aga Khan and Ismailis

Ali Baba also changed life of his 40 chors

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#46

Unread post by Smart » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:58 am

^
@jamnapasand
I do not agree with you completely. The Ali Baba has changed the life of all Bohras. How?
1. He and his father converted the Bohras into a bunch of ignoramuses who don't know anything about their faith.
2. He has pushed them into becoming spineless to that they don't react even when looted or beaten up.
3. He has started selling respect in terms of titles to drunkards and rapists.
4. He has taken over all community resources like hospitals, schools, colleges, hostels and is selling them for money.
5. He has left the poor, the indigent, the widows and the orphans to survive by their wits or to beg.

Now you will agree that he has brought in change. A change for the worse. ;)

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#47

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:08 pm

Ask the people in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Syria, Ivory Coast, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Mozambique, Madagascar,etc. how their lives have been changed by Aga Khan and Ismailis

Ali Baba also changed life of his 40 chors
Don't insult the people of the world by comparing them to thieves. They are no thieves. If you do not see any good, then why not ask them?

Being malicious and sprouting hatred due to lack of the generosity, care, compassion within your own community will not change things brother.

The Qur'an says "We cannot change people, people have to change themselves".

With your hatred against the Ismailis and Aga Khan from time immemorial is not going to stop the Community or the Aga Khan from doing good work around the world. You are hurting only yourself by being so abusive, which shows you are burning . That is not nice. How long are you going to go on like this because the Ismailis and the Aga Khan are here to stay whether you like it or not and they are going to continue to do good in this world for humanity at large.

Try to change your attitude and get some peace in your life in this Holy month.

Propphet S.A.W. was stoned in Ta'if by Jahaliyas like the likes of you. Prophet continued his work nevertheless.

Africawala

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#48

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:33 pm

Potty Mouth, Sorry I missed this because I would never never avoid the opportunity to burn you.
Looks like the Allah you believe in is deficient. If your Allah is deficient, imagine the state of his followers. When your Allah cannot protect his word, how can you trust the word of an Ismaili?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Allah S.W.T. is not deficient your mostmerciful is! Look at the status of his followers and now go out of your hiding place and look at the Ismailis. You do not have to imagine, if you imagine you will not see the truth. Get out of your hellhole and see the state of Ismailis. I bet you don't want to see it because you just want to imagine. You have lived all your life imagining. You imagine that Allah S.W.T. has permitted perverts like you and MF to beat up women; marry 3 year olds, kill women and girls when they enrage you and dub it honor killing.

Stop imagining and come down on earth and live like a human being. Afterall, Allah S.W.T. gave you a gift of life. Honor that gift and live like a man and not some pill popping psycho!


Africawala

jamanpasand
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#49

Unread post by jamanpasand » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:32 am

How long are you going to go on like this because the Ismailis and the Aga Khan are here to stay whether you like it or not and they are going to continue to do good in this world for humanity at large.

Pir Sehab was in obscure world in Iran before Iranian thrown him out. Got refuge in India from British. Became a British Agent and prospered . It’s a short history for which this ignorant faithful is making such tall claims

pardesi
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#50

Unread post by pardesi » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:51 am

JP,

I would love to jump in but this is not the right thread to discuss what you just started. If you would, go to a proper forum and start a new thread and I will try to answer your questions or accusations there.

I am sure we can discuss this subject with you in a more civil manner than the other two who are taking a vacation during this month.

I await.

jamanpasand
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#51

Unread post by jamanpasand » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:33 pm

JP,

I would love to jump in but this is not the right thread to discuss what you just started. If you would, go to a proper forum and start a new thread and I will try to answer your questions or accusations there.

I am sure we can discuss this subject with you in a more civil manner than the other two who are taking a vacation during this month.

I await.


So here comes another one. I am still not clear why these agents keep such a close watch on this site. Are they expecting such a reform movement within themselves?

Anyway, I agree with the agent that not only this thread but the entire forum is not right for any Aga Khani propaganda. I would appreciate if the agent can suggest a forum where we can find some progressive Aga Khanis.

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#52

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:31 pm

Friends:

Please post your blogs relevant to the topic. We have no right to offend others beliefs. Refrain from spiting slurs on others as it is not going to serve any purpose rather than acrimony and intolerance.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#53

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:44 pm

I would appreciate if the agent can suggest a forum where we can find some progressive Aga Khanis.
Agent has gone to France for receive further instructions.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#54

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:46 pm

Correction

Agent has gone to France to receive further instructions.

turbocanuck
Posts: 1531
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#55

Unread post by turbocanuck » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:22 pm

Originally posted by jamanpasand:
Ask the people in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Syria, Ivory Coast, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Mozambique, Madagascar,etc. how their lives have been changed by Aga Khan and Ismailis

Ali Baba also changed life of his 40 chors
And you being one of the 40 Chors?

jamanpasand
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#56

Unread post by jamanpasand » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:36 pm

AH HA. So there is another one.
What you guys are doing here. Ganan,chanta and tasib are waiting for you in the Khana.

turbocanuck
Posts: 1531
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#57

Unread post by turbocanuck » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:29 pm

Originally posted by jamanpasand:
AH HA. So there is another one.
What you guys are doing here. Ganan,chanta and tasib are waiting for you in the Khana.
Jamanpasand, dont you think that was uncalled for? was it necessary for you to mock Ismaili rituals? have they done anything to you except that you are envious and jealous? think about it. let me know.

Africawala0000
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#58

Unread post by Africawala0000 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:23 am

Pir Sehab was in obscure world in Iran before Iranian thrown him out. Got refuge in India from British. Became a British Agent and prospered . It’s a short history for which this ignorant faithful is making such tall claims
Jamandpasand your English stinks. Shows you never got education and hence you never read anything that made sense. All you read was what you wanted to hear and that is MFr a.k.a. Mherally's trash.

You too must be abused by your Mullahs. However, I doubt you are a bohora because bohora usually do not trash Ismailis, neither do Sunnis.

I think a lot of people who are in this forum read Maherally only because that is the only forum that trashes the Ismailis and that is the only idiot they can identify themselves with.

It seems that people who have been abused by their community leaders find company in this miserable soul, so they visit his site and feel that there are other leaders out there exploiting their people. What they do not know, especially, ignoramuses like you who probably haven't gone to even fifth grade, (it is very obvious the way you talk, write and think), that this MFr never publishes anything that the Ismailis refute.

Now seriously, you think that those children in the Third World countries are chor? Or you said that without thinking. I don't expect you to think anyway, so your response will not make any difference .

We have challenged MFr to give us the link wherein he made up lies and sold it to you pathetic souls in this very forum, but he has not produced it as yet and has changed subjects.

So he brings this trash to this forum where there are a few trashers who can't see beyond their noses and are living in hell holes and gets them all excited.

The truth is not in this forum, truth is not in mostmerciful and ally@tel.us forum, the truth is out there and the world outside your hellhole is realising what Ismailism and Aga Khan are about.

But, what can I expect from you. You love getting abused and love to pass it around. Well, then you are in the right forum. There is plenty here to go around.

However, there are a few here who are decent people and want to have good debates, but you MFr, potty mouth, do not want to learn nor let others learn or share ideas. Somehow there is a lot of insecurity among the 3 of you.

As for MFr's comment about somebody having gone to France to get further instructions - that is a pathetic form of thinking.

You want to have an intelligent debate, bring facts and not scraps from Mir Bose and Maherally, both of whom have admitted to lying!

We have no need to be in this forum but as long as you continue to abuse us, we will wring your necks too.

Africawala

pardesi
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#59

Unread post by pardesi » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:27 am

JP,

Come on man, I urge you. Lets start a new thread in a proper forum - say "Islam today" so we can discuss your hatred of Ismailis. Rest assured you will have total support of your mentors there too!

Besides, this website allows everyone, no matter which sect or religion, to come here and discuss anything under relative forums so long as rules are (sometimes) followed and morals are kept to atleast a minimum.

You started this, not us. We just want to answer.

pardesi
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Burial Places of Imams

#60

Unread post by pardesi » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:34 am

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Correction

Agent has gone to France to receive further instructions.
MF,

You must not be fasting today. If you were you wouldn't try to start another fitna while in the state of observing fast, of course, unless you do not know the meaning and significance of "sawm".