Never heard before

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Never heard before

#1

Unread post by S. Insaf » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:48 pm

The terminologies like Iftetah, Araz, Tashrif Aavari, Ikaram, Najwa, Vadhavni, Kadambosi, Ziyafat, Navazishat of titles, Rasme-Saifee Nikah, International Band Competitions, Deedar at the airport, Wajebat, Baraat etc have become synonymous with Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb.
Kothar claims that these are as per 900 years old faith, tradition and customs of the Dawoodi Bohra Community. I went through the lives of earlier Dais but no where I find them. They are all recent innovations and very costly too. They all appear money-making devices and nothing to do with our religion or faith. Will my friends from Kothar’s camp throw some light on the justification of these recent innovations?

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#2

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:45 pm

havent i said on another topic that syedna has learnt lessons from goebbels, hitler's propaganda minister, that for a lie to be effective it must be a big lie and should be repeated often and loudly....?

all these arabic terms are a clever attempt to fool, hoodwink and impress the gullible sheep who get stunned and awed at the b.s. knowledge of our sultan and his shezaadas.

what is our dai's lineage? its from the ordinary gujrati baniya community, not as it is being portrayed, from the warlike yemeni arabs waving their swords!!

we bohras are spineless vepari's, paisa mojva walas, who negotiate, never confront.!

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#3

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:20 pm

Dawoodi Bohra religious establishment has systematically converted the religion in to commercial enterprise by exploiting religious sentiments of the followers using religious terminology. Amils are sent to different places as their marketing managers under disguise of religious guidance.
The moment an Amil lands he first finds out the corrupt elements in the Jamat. Then he forms his own coterie of greedy, selfish and ruthless Jamat members. With their help he then starts looking for an opportunity for making money. He sets his evil eyes on old mosques, Jamatkhnas, Musfirkhanas, Madresas at that place and comes out with his dictates to renovate them. His coterie starts a campaign and collects funds in the name of “Sawab” and “Dua mubarak of Aqa Maula” and building a house in heavens in return. He then gets the old building demolished. Then starts another campaign to collect funds to invite Sayedna for the “Tasees” (laying the foundation stone) of new building. He starts another campaign of collecting funds in the name of “Araz”. If the amount for making “Araz” to Sayedna is found sufficient and Araz is accepted he comes back and starts another campaign to collect funds for “Salaam”,” Ikram”, “Najwa”, ”Ziyafat” etc before “Tashreef Avari” (arrival) of Sayedna.
On “Tashreef Avari” of Sayedna he starts a campaign for “Didar” at the airport, “Talaqqi” (holding hand and moving forward), “Vadhavni”, “Najwa”, “Sharbat”, “Kadambosi”, “Sajdate-Shukr”, “Nawazishat”, “Darees” etc.
Interestingly the whole cycle is repeated again when the building is ready for “Iftitah” (inauguration).
Some more money-making features are added in this cycle when Sayedna is invited for Moharram vaiz or when he decides to celebrate his birthday at a particular place every year that suits him politically. These additional features are Meetings with local political leaders, “Mass Nikah of Rasme-Saifee”, International Band Competitions, Fancy dress competition, Sports and full-page paid advertisements in the several newspapers for publicity etc.
In addition to this huge amount is also collected by making fake announcements of renovation of “Mazar” of Sayedna Hatim in Yemen, manufacturing and installing Zareeh Mubarak of Bibi Fatima in madina.
This process goes on through out the year and the tones of money is being collected from the community proudly calling it great “Karam” and “Ahsanat” of Aqa Moula.
Remember this is besides the more than 50 Crores rupees per year by way of Wajebat, Sabeel and income from “Golaks” (collection boxes) kept at Mazars and from other community’s properties.
And what does the Dawoodi Bohra community gets in return? Aqa Moula ni Khushi and Dua no paigam. That’s all.

pro_pig
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#4

Unread post by pro_pig » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:04 am

what u want saifuddinbhai are u jealous u dont contrubute a single penny y u worried take care of another things beside these things.
and i can tell in these forn they are couple people who are prog rest are u login in different names.are u cyco.

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#5

Unread post by S. Insaf » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:09 am

Brother pro-pig,
The Arabic sounding words which I have put in inverted comas are the words which you do not find in the history of Dawat and earlier Dais. These are recent innovations. Our 3rd Dai Sayedna Hatim used conduct "Daras" (teaching classes). The word Daras has been now twisted and called "Darees". In Arabic dictionary there is no word like "Darees". But exploiting Bohras psychology "Daras" has been changed to "Darees" and it is nothing to do with imparting education but it is solely for Salams and Jamans.
All other Arabic sounding words like "Tasees", Talaqqi" are for playing with Bohras psychology and extracting more and more money from them. It is a clear cut diversion from the Quran, the holy Prophet’s teachings and Fatemi Dawat’s objectives.
Brother, please understand that this is not RELIGION. It is a BUSINESS in the holy name of religion which we are objecting. There is no question of our being jealous.
How do I justify when I hold "Qura'n" all the time in my hand and still call it a "Dead Book" and claim that I am the "Qura'n-e-Natiq" (peaking Qura’n) and obeying my dictates is the real Namaz.
I spent most of my time in Namaz and building mosques and then say that I am God. Am I not a hypocrite?
Brother please realize that we are being misled.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#6

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:53 am

Originally posted by pro_pig:
what u want saifuddinbhai are u jealous u dont contrubute a single penny y u worried take care of another things beside these things.
and i can tell in these forn they are couple people who are prog rest are u login in different names.are u cyco.
Brother...

Saifuddin bhai, does not have to contribute a single penny to Kothar, IF you can only see the contribution he is already making.... He is a rich man, because he knows what is poverty.

Brother, you are also rich, if you UNDERSTAND what is POVERTY.

Gulf
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#7

Unread post by Gulf » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:25 am

L_M,
Do you UNDERSTAND what is POVERTY????

Absolutely you do NOT. lost minded

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#8

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:44 am

Yes.. I know, thats why I am asking you to find out.. please find out..

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#9

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:07 am

And what does the Dawoodi Bohra community gets in return? Aqa Moula ni Khushi and Dua no paigam. That’s all.

Thats not all Saifuddin Bhai, They get a MOTIVE to be greedy, selfish, jealous, fearful... because thats what they are actually looking at.. and thats the MOTIVE of Kothar, they are telling.. please dont be honest, by showing what is dishonesty..

The one who looks at it and "understands" becomes dishonest (honest)

Thats what reform is all about.

Reform is all about "understanding" because UNDERSTANDING IS GOD, Thats what Holy Koran tells us.

Holy Koran is nothing but a mirror, and a mirror, never LIES.

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#10

Unread post by makberi » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:40 am

thanks Mr Insaf for bringing out that most of the rituals that we borhas follow are recent innovations.....it surely raises questions as our faith is turning into a money minting business.... most youngsters like me wud be unaware of these facts cuz we have seen these things since childhood n think that they have been practiced from the very beginning......n many more innovations are been set in...like the tabudat na amal....hope more bohris realise the real purpose behind these activities

Maqbool
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#11

Unread post by Maqbool » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:42 am

Bro.Inaf Says,
In Arabic dictionary there is no word like "Darees".
But there is a word in Gujrati dictionery and that is what every bohra is confirming. Yes I will fear (Darees)

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#12

Unread post by makberi » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:45 am

most of these darees have no real productive value..its jus reading a few hymns from the book...matam n madeh....thts it....there is no real exchange of knowledge...though i wud like to point out that nothin much is tehre to offer even in the bayans...except on certain rare occasions

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#13

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:19 am

Originally posted by makberi:
most of these darees have no real productive value..its jus reading a few hymns from the book...matam n madeh....thts it....there is no real exchange of knowledge...though i wud like to point out that nothin much is tehre to offer even in the bayans...except on certain rare occasions
Brother..

Kothar has managed to remove the first R from BROTHER, Thats it....

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#14

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:23 am

Originally posted by like_minded:
Originally posted by makberi:
most of these darees have no real productive value..its jus reading a few hymns from the book...matam n madeh....thts it....there is no real exchange of knowledge...though i wud like to point out that nothin much is tehre to offer even in the bayans...except on certain rare occasions
Brother..

Kothar has managed to remove the first R from BROTHER, Thats it....
In the process they have actually removed the last R from KOTHAR...

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#15

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:25 am

REFORM is not to remove the first R from BROTHER but to remove the last R from KOTHAR...

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#16

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:27 am

It is for US to UNDERSTAND.... Because Understanding is to see what is UNDER-STANDING...

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#17

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:40 am

Originally posted by maqbool:
Bro.Inaf Says,
In Arabic dictionary there is no word like "Darees".
But there is a word in Gujrati dictionery and that is what every bohra is confirming. Yes I will fear (Darees)
The orthos dont fear.. thats why they attend darees (fear)

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#18

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:11 pm

"they are telling.. please dont be honest, by showing what is dishonesty.."

quoted from bro. LM,

absolutely spot on brother! there is a very old saying in hindi, " jaisa raja, waisi praja".

a dishonest, corrupt, immoral, luxury and pomp loving syedna and his parasitic family have spawned exactly the same in our community today. it is a reflection in the mirror of whatever the kothar does.

the supreme example are all these kothari haiwaans here on this forum, who display all the qualities which are the most despicable of our leadership and are very proud of it too! to utter laanats, gali galoch, name calling, behaving like hooligans.. all this they do not realise but reflects perfectly the syedna and his family and paid goons who rule over our community today.

i say to these pigs and frogs etc, yes, please carry on.. the more you behave the way you do, the more you reflect yr moula's niraali shaan ...

Admin
Posts: 671
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#19

Unread post by Admin » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:06 pm

Al Zulfiqar,

We admire your passion for reform and understand you anger at the Kothar's high-handedness but please understand that harsh words and abusive language may help you get it off your chest but it does not advance the reform project in any meaningful way. On the contrary, it casts us in the same mould as the enemy we're fighting against. We do not want to enter into the debate as to what is best way to further our cause but we're pretty sure that abuse and bad-mouthing is not one of them.

We really appreciate your contributions. You've brought new fire and passion to the debates here, and we sincerely hope you would tone down your language so that your voice gets the attention it deserves.

Thank you.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#20

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:09 pm

Dear Admin,

Thanks. Point taken in good spirit. I understand that there is a higher standard that the reformist camp must adhere to, in order to be taken seriously and not to descend to the lowest levels of the fanatics and the kothar.

What I only wish to add is that I try in most cases to couch my anger in the best possible diplomatic language (it is possible to be severely insulting but in a polite and sarcastic way), but wish you also set some standards for the pigs, frogs etc who come here to abuse and nothing else, diplomacy be damned..?

pro_pig
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#21

Unread post by pro_pig » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:15 pm

dear admim,
pls give mr zulfiqar the tittle of "dai" 1st dai of progressive dawoodi bohra. as he is only intresed to be the dai of this community. if some thing bad things to him who will be responsible? he has too fire in this system pls remove fire frm his system. ;)

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#22

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:13 am

pig,

the name is not mr. zulfiqar, but AL ZULFIQAR, hope u know what it is, since you have been trumpeting the name of ALI's name from yr idol worshipping mouth of late to hide yr severe inadequacies..

read the history of the Al Zulfiqar and wet yr pants because that is what happened to all kafirs whenever their eyes fell upon it..

btw, did u wash yr nose today?

pro_pig
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#23

Unread post by pro_pig » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:21 am

u fite for zulfiqar only.nothing else.and i know that al zulfiqar means.u dont keed to tell me the meaning of it u dum *** . get some fire.............................baby

james
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

Re: Never heard before

#24

Unread post by james » Mon May 05, 2014 4:04 am

Blast from the Past

Admin wrote:Al Zulfiqar,

We admire your passion for reform and understand you anger at the Kothar's high-handedness but please understand that harsh words and abusive language may help you get it off your chest but it does not advance the reform project in any meaningful way. On the contrary, it casts us in the same mould as the enemy we're fighting against. We do not want to enter into the debate as to what is best way to further our cause but we're pretty sure that abuse and bad-mouthing is not one of them.

We really appreciate your contributions. You've brought new fire and passion to the debates here, and we sincerely hope you would tone down your language so that your voice gets the attention it deserves.

Thank you.
8)

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Never heard before

#25

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Mon May 05, 2014 12:19 pm

Thanks James for bringing our attention to this thread got some more good things to know from Insaf bhai.

Thank you once again.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#26

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed May 07, 2014 3:46 pm

[quote="james"]Blast from the Past

james, here's another blast from the present for you. enjoy!

what do you call a so-called religious leader who denigrates women? A MISOGYNIST

what do you call a so-called religious leader who accepts sajdas from his followers and refers to them as slaves? AN ARROGANT KAFIR

what do you call a so-called religious leader who lives a life of ayyashi, pomp and glamour at his followers expense? A CONMAN AND CHARLATAN

what do you call a so-called religious leader who conjures up lies about his father having annointed him during a deep coma? A FRAUD AND CHEAT

what do you call a so-called religious leader who cannot utter a single coherent sentence and talks gibberish? AN ILLITERATE BUMBLING FOOL

what do you call a so-called religious leader who records himself dancing like a whirling derwish waving daggers in the air soon after his 'dear father's' death? AN INSENSITIVE, SCHEMING HYPOCRITE

what do you call a so-called religious leader who goes on expensive hunting trips to shoot down wild endangered species for sport? A MURDERER AND A BRUTE

what do you call a so-called religious leader who rakes in 1000's of crores of black money and pays no taxes anywhere in the world? A MONEY LAUNDERER AND CRIMINAL

need some more blasts??? what is black is black and what is white is white. referring to them by their correct terminology, how is that ABUSE?!


Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Never heard before

#27

Unread post by Smart » Wed May 07, 2014 9:22 pm

Blast from the past was actually "khisiani billi khamba noche". Do you get that Dear James?

Habeel
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:01 pm

Re: Never heard before

#28

Unread post by Habeel » Wed May 07, 2014 10:35 pm

Brother AZ,
Salaam! Just imagine a person whose belief is in his maula is such strong that he/she just love him. Exactly the same way any pious Muslim loves Rasullullah(swt). How these words gonna affect to him? What do you want to prove? They are correct from there perspective same as you. Both are correct!
I have been visiting this site since 2000/2001 as a reader and am thankful for some good Islamic knowledge I gathered such as diam-ul-Islam, Nahjul Balagah, Ismaili books links and some interesting discussions which has provoked me to gain more knowledge and hooked me to books on IIS.uk site. I always have stayed away from forums because ppl do not respect each others beliefs and abusive language. Discussions were not healthy, it was full of reactions, opinions, imposing belief, interpretations and hatred. If the purpose of discussion is to make someone to think than "defying and attacking their belief" is gonna make difference? May be but not positive way.
In my experience, only positive thoughts attract positivity.

way2go
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Never heard before

#29

Unread post by way2go » Wed May 07, 2014 10:39 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
james wrote:Blast from the Past

james, here's another blast from the present for you. enjoy!

what do you call a so-called religious leader who denigrates women? A MISOGYNIST

what do you call a so-called religious leader who accepts sajdas from his followers and refers to them as slaves? AN ARROGANT KAFIR

what do you call a so-called religious leader who lives a life of ayyashi, pomp and glamour at his followers expense? A CONMAN AND CHARLATAN

what do you call a so-called religious leader who conjures up lies about his father having annointed him during a deep coma? A FRAUD AND CHEAT

what do you call a so-called religious leader who cannot utter a single coherent sentence and talks gibberish? AN ILLITERATE BUMBLING FOOL

what do you call a so-called religious leader who records himself dancing like a whirling derwish waving daggers in the air soon after his 'dear father's' death? AN INSENSITIVE, SCHEMING HYPOCRITE

what do you call a so-called religious leader who goes on expensive hunting trips to shoot down wild endangered species for sportMURDERER AND A BRUTE

what do you call a so-called religious leader who rakes in 1000's of crores of black money and pays no taxes anywhere in the world? A MONEY LAUNDERER AND CRIMINAL

need some more blasts??? what is black is black and what is white is white. referring to them by their correct terminology, how is that ABUSE?!

Al Zulfiqar bhai, On this Forum (forget under which topic) it was asked to list out 10 qualities of MS that befits him to be a Dai........one whose perfect as a Spiritual Head of a community. You've listed only 9 and missed out the 10th!!!!
:(