has the Qaumi Libas made Bohras sitting ducks

[Smart]

If you carefully observe the communal violence in India, there are certain trends that are clearly visible:
1. Bohra Shops are looted.
2. Bohras are troubled disproportionately.

Analysing the trend, it is clear that there are some obvious reasons for Bohras being the target.
1. Bohras and Khojas are basically traders and so financially better off than the other muslims.
2. Of these Bohras are conspicuous by their dress, whereas Khojas are not so conspicuous.

This is happening because in the last thirty years or so, there has been an insistence on what is called as qaumi libas.

The general populace is unable to distinguish Bohras from the Tablighees / Wahabbis, because the difference is small.

So, what was the sense in creating a separate identity, when earlier we were able to merge with the general populace? Why were we made to become sitting ducks, and as an obvious target?

[S. Insaf]

So, what was the sense in creating a separate identity, when earlier we were able to merge with the general populace?
When the first world reformist conference was organized in Udaipur on February 1977, a huge morcha of Bohra women and men was taken out to oppose it. I have photographs of that morcha. Anyone looking at them will say that there was no restriction of Quomi Libas till then and these women were all without rida and most of the men were without beard in ordinary dress.
It is only after the uncompromising mass revolt in Udaipur that an effort was made to create identity between the Bohras of two groups. A sure sign of fear in Kothar’s camp.

[Smart]

There are two trains of thought that come to my mind in this regards:

1. The first thought says that the Syedna lacked intelligence, foresight and vision to understand the long term repercussions of his actions. There is proof of this in the way he behaved in case of the laanat matter.

2. The second thought is that possibly there is shrewd mind operating somewhere. The process of imposing the qaumi libas has made the laity, sitting ducks and the Syedna pays people like Thackeray and Modi to create mayhem. This ensures that the lay bohras are insecure. It is a well known phenomenon that insecure people have a ghetto mentality and come together, so insecurity pays the kothar very strong dividends.

Whichever train of thought is true, it is clear that the common bohra is the loser. So behind all the drama that is enacted, the fact as Bill Clinton would put it, "Read my lips, It's the economy stupid"

[Aarif]

Smart,

My $0.2

The quami libas actually protects the bohras in a way... That is the reason why Syedna greases palms of Modi and Thackrey... When they see bohras they spare them assuming that they are followers of syedna their friend... Afcourse this is not in line with Islamic unity but the bohras do not care about that...

[Smart]

quote from bro. S. Insaf from another thread.

Imam Jaferus-Sadiq initiated the practice of “taqiyya” (secrecy). Since then “taqiyya” has become a part of all Shia sect. Whereas the Arabs were traditionally and temperamentally not suited for secretive underground functioning, Imam Jafer could organize a successful well-knit and secret organization. This was necessary in then prevailing hostile political situation.

It is the faith of the Bohras that the Imam is in Purdah, because the circumstances are not suitable for zuhoor. If it is so why is the Syedna not following this principle?

What is the advantage to be gained for the Bohras by dressing up in the way they do and how does it make sense?

[like_minded]

I fully agree to the two points stated by smart in regard to the quami libaas.

Kothar's main motto is to create an atmosphere where the common followers feel insecure.. this is precisely the reason why they have restricted bohras from getting life insurance policies.

They have made rules and regulations in an order which suits them perfect to exploit and enslave the community on the whole, coming to quami libaas, one reason for enforcing could be that they want the followers to remain in the circle drawn by them, which makes it easy for them to distinguish between a brain washed zombie and someone who is a likely candidate to pose threat to their rule.

[jayanti]

I think progressive should come up with dress code.

[Gulf]

Originally posted by jayanti:
I think progressive should come up with dress code.

any suggesion if we can offer them?

[Smart]

@jayanti & gulf

The whole concept of a dress code is reprehensible. It involves regimentation. A society that has freedom of thought, would be a society where each individual would have the discretion to dress according to their sense of propriety. Imposing a dress code is an indication that the imposer considers the people on whom this code is imposed as immature and incpapble of being treated as adults.

Is it not possible to merge in the general society like sugar in milk, like Parsis?

I have raised this issue to highlight the question of sanity about those insisting on the dress code.

It is called as Imani Libas, but the shirt that the Syedna himself wears, is based on the dress of gujarati shepherds called bharwads. It has nothing to do with Islam or Imaan.

[Smart]

sorry, please read the word in line 4 as incapable.

[East Africawalla]

Smart, so you think that all the Sikhs, Jews, A few American Christians, Muslims who wear a beard and women with chadar are incapable of being treated as adults, interesting
1st sign of madness is you think others are mad

[S. Insaf]

While I was taking about the Bohra dress code with eltherly Miya Saheb, he told me some thing interesting which I would like to share.
He said Saifuddin bhai have you ever thought why Bohra ridas are so colourful?
Because till 70s there was no cuompulsion on dress code Bohra ladies used to wear colourful Saris. Then came sudden farman for rida and the same colourful saris were converted into colourful ridas.
May be true or not. But it is interesting.

[Smart]

@EA
Look at the example of the people you have mentioned. They have been sitting ducks for hatred one time or the other.
1. Sikhs - look at India in the late 80s. Even now in India, half the jokes are Sardarji jokes. That indicates they are objects of ridicule.
2. Jews - I am sure you are aware of the history of Jews in Europe, especially before the World War II.
3. Some Christians - Especially Mormons. All these are looked down by their societies and even the US Govt. is thinking of ways to control this sect because of their exploitative practices of women.
4. Muslims - The less said the better.

1st sign of madness is you think others are mad

Would you really stand by your statement? By your logic, all psychiatrists are mad. Secondly, the Syedna calls laanat on others very frequently, so do you want to say that your logic applies to this also. Apply your mind before you post.

I think, you could have added something more substantial than this. Or is it too much to expect from you?

[S. Insaf]

I personally think that strict dress code, entry in masjids, mazars, jamat etc strictly on I-cards are signs of prevailing fear in Kothar's camp after uncompromising mass revolt in Udaipur.
Off course after filing a review petition in the Supreme Court of India against Bohra Dai's right to excommunicate the incidents of "Baraat" are confined to mere threats and Bohra women and men are openly opposing the high-handedness of Sayedna Saheb's arrogant and corrupt establishment.

[Smart]

^ @S. Insaf
Jevo Raja, tevi praja. Both darpok!

[Gulf]

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
I personally think that strict dress code, entry in masjids, mazars, jamat etc strictly on I-cards are signs of prevailing fear in Kothar's camp after uncompromising mass revolt in Udaipur.
Off course after filing a review petition in the Supreme Court of India against Bohra Dai's right to excommunicate the incidents of "Baraat" are confined to mere threats and Bohra women and men are openly opposing the high-handedness of Sayedna Saheb's arrogant and corrupt establishment.

I dont understand you people that always criticize us instead of consider to mix youreselves with the mainstream???

[S. Insaf]

Yes the next month after Ramadan is Shawwal. Thanks for correction though it does not make any difference in understanding what I want to convey.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Gulf:

I dont understand you people that always criticize us instead of consider to mix youreselves with the mainstream???

Why for Allah's sake would you want illuminated progressives to mix with corrupted mainstream? Shed one logical "Islamic" reason why?

[Smart]

@gulf

I dont understand you people that always criticize us instead of consider to mix youreselves with the mainstream???

If after being on this forum for such a long time and reading so much here and sometimes responding, if you do not understand the issues, then the possibilities are:
1. Serious deficiency of intellectual capability.
2. A closed mind that refuses to see the truth.

If it is the first, then you are beyond redemption, however if it is the second, I pray that Allah give you taufiq to see the truth.

Now to take up your argument; why does the Syedna criticise and pronounce laanat on the caliphs of the Sunnis and why don't you advise him to join the main stream, because they are way larger in numbers?

You will agree with me that the issue is not about numbers, but about the truth, just as was the case between Imam Husain and Yazid.

[Gulf]

Smart,
Frustrations seems to have taken a permanent abode in you.
You are confused.

[Smart]

@gulf
Instead of calling me names. Why don't you answer the issues that I have raised? It is you who is frustrated, because your statement which I have quoted shows it.

[seeker110]

Qoumi libas simply means keep away from me I am weird and brainwashed.An outcast in the present day society.This is exactly what kothar wants.
Mostly it keeps the working class away from Masjids and other religious occasions.

[Smart]

The question is the basis of identity of a group:
1. A group based on ideology / philosophy
2. A group based on the personality of a person

In the first case the identity of the group is based on a set of ideas, commonly held by the members of the group. This is sufficient for the cohesion of the group.

In the second case the commonality is established on the basis of the looks of the group, because there is nothing more substantial involved to control the group.

[humble_servant_us]

Wearing rida (hijab) is islamic and bohras have nothing to do with it. However the purpose of Hijab was to protect the women , so it has to be full covering and not attractive. But in (most) Bohras this is very attractive and fashonable and also the hair is seen which does not solve the basic purpose of hijab.

I don't think the authorities encourage this because i have seen the people from sayedna's family covering their hair properly but however they too use coloured, fashionable ridas which doesn't look correct.

For men as per shiites, wearing beard is only compulsory, else everything recommended.

Imposing a strict dress code of saaaya and topi is a innovation. I don;t know its good or bad but atleast it pulls out money from the poor who has to now get a saaya also stitched.

Had this been recommended by Sayedna i would have appreciated it but his Force on following it to me is a challenge to the all knowing lawmaker Allah(swt)'s wisdom.

[S. Insaf]

Till 70s there was no dress code in our community. Even Gulshane Malumat by Shaikh Kikabhai Shaikh Musa Khan Rayeq - Ujjain published in 1975 on page 328 shows the Dawoodi Bohras with different turbans and dress from Dahod & Godhara, Yamen, Hydrabad, Bombay, Jamnagar, Surat & Khambat, Ujjain, Rajasthan, Javad & Mandasore, Sironj & Bhopal, Koka & Pisawada etc. indicating that earlier the Dawoodi Bohras used to take pride in the dress as per their local tradition and there was no common dress code.
Same was with Bohra women, Chania Lenhga (Rajasthan, Gujarat), Ghais (Malva), Saree (Hydrabad etc.
Either Dais prior to Sayedna Burhanuddin were wrong or ignorant or if they were following the Fatimid tradition then there is some thing wrong now.
I have personally seen the Muslims in Egypt masjid Jame-Anwar observing daily prayers in different dresses and surprisingly with their shoes on.
Man is born naked and it has taken centuries to develop clothes. Then how can Allah be pleased by only one type of dress?

[babu]

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
Till 70s there was no dress code in our community. Even Gulshane Malumat by Shaikh Kikabhai Shaikh Musa Khan Rayeq - Ujjain published in 1975 on page 328 shows the Dawoodi Bohras with different turbans and dress from Dahod & Godhara, Yamen, Hydrabad, Bombay, Jamnagar, Surat & Khambat, Ujjain, Rajasthan, Javad & Mandasore, Sironj & Bhopal, Koka & Pisawada etc. indicating that earlier the Dawoodi Bohras used to take pride in the dress as per their local tradition and there was no common dress code.
Same was with Bohra women, Chania Lenhga (Rajasthan, Gujarat), Ghais (Malva), Saree (Hydrabad etc.
Either Dais prior to Sayedna Burhanuddin were wrong or ignorant or if they were following the Fatimid tradition then there is some thing wrong now.
I have personally seen the Muslims in Egypt masjid Jame-Anwar observing daily prayers in different dresses and surprisingly with their shoes on.
Man is born naked and it has taken centuries to develop clothes. Then how can Allah be pleased by only one type of dress?

Sorry , not a fruitful post

[Smart]

^
And your post is so very fruitful! It is a sea of knowledge. How deep and profound!

[babu]

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
Till...........blah blah ...... Man is born naked ..............one type of dress?

So Nange maharaj ban kar ghhomenge ???

[Smart]

^
Even more profound thoughts from the fountain of knowledge. Ilm no dariyoj che!