Poverty Line

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
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Poverty Line


Unread post by tahir » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:22 pm

Beyond the smokescreen of bohra opulence lies a glaring class divide. The rich are becoming richer while the poors are becoming literally beggars. Of late, increasing numbers of bohras are depending upon begging as a means of livelihood. Just a decade ago, the only people who used to beg in the bohra mohallas were muslim faqirs. Rarely did one came across a bohra faqir. Things have changed for worse now. It is quite common to see bohras begging for "sadaka" not only on festivals but every Thursday. I can guess the following reasons:
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All the money that is alloted as Karzan Hasana is pilfrated midway by the unscrupulous Sheikhs and other kothar cronies. As a result, the money which is meant for poor is used to make the rich richer.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With the rapid splitting up of joint families and property disputes bewteen brothers, the old people are left without a shelter. They find begging more dignified than to live with a torcherous daughter in law. In essence, bohras don't take care of their elderly well. Most of the bohra beggars are old people.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Though there is a theoratical provision for poors in the form of karzan hasana, there is a lack of destitute support system and old age homes in the community. Apart from the old people, there are many widows who resort to begging.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Finally, there are some people who just dont want to work and find begging as an easy livelihood.</font></li>
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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by accountability » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:18 pm

Tahir my friend you have brought into focus a real issue that is consuming our community as well as the whole humanity. you have rightly outlined several reasons. I would like to add, in my opinion the biggest problem now facing our community is religious bigotry and hyper ritualism. common bohras are forced to pay huge sum towards the extravagant lifstyle by the royal family. in their pursuit for more wealth the family does not encourage philanthropy, and welfare. yet it very much discourages the both. if anyone tries to do anything for the welfare of commoner, he is not only discouraged but threatened with un called for consequences. this whole practice comes down from royal family to their managers, amils and officials. if i may bring to your notice, the change in sermons, and their contents, before a while ago, it was usual to cite the simple and God fearing life of Ali (AS). but now you will not hear the same quote, as it contradicts the present royals lifestyle. if we are to do something about this endemic poverty, we shall have to tackle the task on individual basis. our individuals have to come out and help the fellow beings, in doing so if they encounter the opposition from jamat, they should ignore it, rather make it clear and obvious to others, that helping a fellow bohra is not a sin, and we should expose the ones who oppose it. root cause of poverty is lack of education and ignorance, our youth nowadays are targetted away from getting education, as education does not suite the present setup, their mc carthyism knows, that if they let our youth free on education, then eventually their hold and grip will become loose. it is the game of stockpiling the wealth for one family and group and support their lifestyle

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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:47 am

There was a time when I and my mother went begging to a charitable institution because we couldn't afford to pay my fees. I was refused any help.

At that time I realized that even though it may seem that some people choose begging as an easy way out, believe me, it is not. One doesn't beg unless one is completely helpless.

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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:49 am

The point I was trying to make was that, if a bohra is begging then it is a matter of shame for the entire bohra community.

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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by Alislam » Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:50 am

The charitable Trusts formed in different cities by the Opulent were forcibly taken over by kothari thugs.

The kothar is simply, only bothered in collecting the money, not sparing the poorest of the poor and there is no help whatsoever.

In my city, the reformist Markaz collects the Zakat from the members and the benificiaries of it are mainly the poor bohras of the orthrodox jamaat.

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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by Zeal » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:42 am

Bro Tahir good topic you raised,

Malikul ushtar bhaisahab is champion in this.

he goes to cities with a target of doing kadam in all the mumin houses.

In our city , he used to visit houses even at the midnight,
the aim was just to collect envelopes and then he used to run away without even sitting or reading yaaseen.
He didnt spare some of the widows even who run their livelihood by sewing clothes for people.

Moomin52, mukhish ....is this what you call achievements of your so called daawat?

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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by tahir » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:11 pm

Originally posted by Zeal:

Moomin52, mukhish ....is this what you call achievements of your so called daawat?
Now count the number of minutes before one of them educates you that since poverty and corruption exist everywhere why single out bohras? That actually sounds reasonable enough unless the same guys go on to claim that the dai has elivated bohras to the highest socio spiritual niche and that bohras have a "unique identity" in the world. Not to mention the "hand holding and leading to heaven" part.

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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by tahir » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:26 pm

Btw in my city, malik-e-ustar was nicknamed as "jebkatro" (pickpocket). Interestingly, most of the pick pockets have "ustara" (an Indian razor also used as a weapon) as their favourite defense tool and they are very good at using it on a persons face while caught stealing. If this gives you a idea what "malik-e-ustar" means... ;)

S. Insaf
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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by S. Insaf » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:23 pm

Immediately after the Gujarat earth quack The Dawoodi Bohra Jamaat (reformist) Udaipur sent 6-truck load material and distributed among the sufferers. There after groups went there to help the sufferers. I am reproducing here the report of the first group in brief for information of out side Udaipur:
Since Dawoodi Bohra Jamaat – Udaipur (Regd. No. 342)
To provide help and relief to suffering people, particularly Dawoodi Bohras of devastating and destructive Gujarat earthquake in January 2001, the Reformist Group constituted a committee.
This committee conducted an exhaustive survey during their visit to interior rural areas and villages of Amreli, Bhavnagar and Ahmedabad to assess the needs and requirement of stricken and afflicted Dawoodi Bohras for their rehabilitation, repair of their houses, for food, house-hold earthen wares, clothing, medicines etc.
We were shocked to see the most pathetic condition of Dawoodi Bohra brothers, sisters and children in Savar Kundla, Hanol, Jesser, Gundhari, Mahua, Dampura, Cheetal, Babra Kotrapeta and Dhan-dhuka. Thousands of Bohras here are living much below the poverty line, downtrodden Adivasis. Even in this 21st Century in many houses wood-fire is used for cooking and there is no clean drinking water or electricity. Most of the Bohra men are working as bonded labours in fields and dam construction sites. Most of the Bohra women are either working as labourers at government relief centers breaking stones or as maid servants in Hindu houses washing utensils, cloths and floor-cleaning. Many Bohra men were found pulling handcarts, running lories and tiny shops. Bohra women were found selling samosas, vegetables etc. Due to acute poverty and humiliating conditions majority of Dawoodi Bohra children remain uneducated. There no schools and playing ground either.
In these areas due to poverty Bohras eat Bajra roti and Chhas (butter milk) in their food. At some places even they cannot afford chhas and Bajra roti with water is eaten. In these villages no help is reached either from government agencies or from Bohra establishment at Bombay, Surat or elsewhere run by Sayedna Saheb and lives of Bohras are pathetic.
Bohras here told us that even in these difficult time Amils and mullahs came from Sayedna Saheb just to collect wajebat, Salam and donations for mosques and Saifee hospital during Ramadan. Minimum amount they collected from each family here was Rs. 52/-.
Our first group visited these places on 13th, 14th and 15th August 2001 and went different houses with help of local social workers. Though we had collected a large amount from people of Rajasthan (Hindus and Muslims) and distributed them among the most needy but feel a lot yet to be done in a big way.
We are attaching herewith a list of families whom we had provided help.
We once again resolve to continue our mission for removal of poverty, medical help, education and improving the living standard of our Dawoodi Bohra brothers, sisters and children.
Nasir Javed, Joint Secretary, Dawoodi Bohra Jamaat - Udaipur

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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by Zeal » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:42 pm

Under the kothar rules ,
Rich becomes more richer.
They only fill the stomachs of already filled !!!

People who are famous , well to do are invited in private jamans , darees etc.
People who ask for karze-hasana are replied to keep their gold as a security.
Imagine if someone has gold and silver why would he ask for karze hasana.

This is all racism according to me !

And fools like m052 and mukhlish and like them 1 million call themselves they have achieved everything under the guidance of maula ??

According to me they are miles and miles away from even the basics of humanity , forget anything else .

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Re: Poverty Line


Unread post by mumineen » Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:58 pm

We visited Gujrat (Morbi, Anjar and Mandvi) in 2001, six months after that devastating earthquake.

The door at Morbi's Mazaar/Mosque was still hanging out of the hinges - although we were told that Kothar's engineers had visited the site soon after the mayhem.

The Bohri survivors who had lost their family members and all their worldly assets, including their businesses, were given some measly monetary (I think 11,000 Rps)from the funds collected from throughout the world by Kothar. They had to travel to Rajkot to cash their cheques and pay for their own travel and an exhorbitant amount of bank charges.

They were given a temporary shelter at the somewhat destroyed Musafirkhana but each family was charged 14 Rps a night by the Kothar, and they were advised to go and relocate in Rajkot - without any assistance for shelter or business funding.

They told us that the Ismaili Aga Khanis and Ithna Asheri Khojas' Indian and Overseas donors visited their community members victims immediately after the earthquake with tents, blankets, clothing,food & water and financial assistance. Kothar sent Shehzaadas and engineers with Moulas benedictions to the Bohri victims - and after six months we did NOT see much of improvements or progress to the Bohris' plight.

3. We (six of us) stayed at the Mandvi Mazaar's Musafir Khana and were asked to deposit three days rental - although we told the caretaker that we only were there for a night.

When we were checking out, the caretaker asked us to give the rest of the refund of our deposit for "Bhukham" (earthquake) fund, which we did. We told the caretaker that we had aleady donated hefty sums to our respective countries Jamaat and the moneys were sent to Kothar. The caretaker told us that they hadn't seen "a paay" (a penny!).

We were having a meal at the Mazar with some people from Bhuj and they told us that Kothar had given the victims only a minute fraction of their losses as compared to what Kothar had collected from the Bohris from throughout the world.