Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#61

Unread post by Danish » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:54 pm

correction: khunoos means piglet, not pig, you حمق

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#62

Unread post by porus » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:56 pm

Originally posted by Danish:
أنت لا تتلقّى الشجاعة أن يتناقش لأنّ أنت يستطيع لا يفهم ك خاصّة كتاب حمقاء.
Another insult to Quran.

Translation:

"You do not display bravery when you discuss because it is not possible for you to understand, specially, the dim-witted book."

kitab huqma' also means dumb, screwy, unwise and many other nasty adjectives.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#63

Unread post by Danish » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:00 pm

Originally posted by porus:
Originally posted by Danish:
Porus, stick to my previous post.

كتابك مقدّسة شرّيرة ويجعل بشيطانة ، [و] خنوص
Kitabuka mukaddast shar-reerat wa yaj-Al bis shaitaanatu, ya khunoos.
"Your holy book is mischievous and has been put here through Shaytan, O pig"

This is a gross insult to Quran. He has already abused the Prophet in most insulting way. Why do you condone such behavior?
It is metaphorical or allegorical or contextually misunderstood or only intelligent ones can understand, LOL. :p

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#64

Unread post by Danish » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:07 pm

Hey Porus, have you read the Al Furqan authored by muhammad (the praised one)?

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#65

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:50 pm

Admin.

It is high time to wake up or I think the others will think we are just supporting this crap.

Please kick this man out of our forum with strict policy and warning to like minded of no response to any one who speaks, write or thinks against Prophet, Quran or Islam.

Admin
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#66

Unread post by Admin » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:42 pm

We regret that Danish did not heed our warnings and left us no choice but to ban him. We are sorry to let you go.

Just to be clear, we did not ban Danish because he was speaking against Islam or the Prophet but because he was using insulting, derogatory and profane language against them. This Forum is open and free and encourages the critical point of view so long as that criticism does not degenerate into blatant hate-mongering and pointless bad-mouthing of people and ideas held sacred by others.

We'd also like to urge eveyone not to use foul language against the Sayedna and the Aga Khan. For reformists (mainly the closet reformists) especially it is not only a bad behavior to call Sayenda saheb names but a bad tactic as well. If you want to get your point across to the orthodox you do not start off by bad-mouthing Sayedna, that's a sure way upset and alienate the potential customer right off the bat. Talk about issues, not people. By calling Sayedna names you are doing a great service to the reform movement. If you really care about reforms and about the larger community we urge you to stop this behavior.

Thanks.

Mamluk-E-Syedna
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#67

Unread post by Mamluk-E-Syedna » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:03 pm

So Chuhe Maarke Billi Haj Karne Chali!
Admin, Vah Bhai Vah!!!
Taara to Chaavvana Daant Bhi Alag and Dekhaadvaana Daant Bhi Alag!
You guys are nothing but "Be Mohnaa Ajgar" -- Just like your leader "laeen" Ajgar.

Khudani Laanat Daina Dushmano Upar.

ponga bhori
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#68

Unread post by ponga bhori » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:47 pm

ADMIN: "By calling Sayedna names you are doing a great service to the reform movement."

Mum Look READ.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#69

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:08 am

Admin

Banning of Bro Danish is very unfortunate, This clearly indicates the tolerance level of most members on this forum.

Shame on everyone who supported the ban on Danish.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#70

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:03 am

Admin, Congratulations for your action & thank you for urging the people to behave while writing.

I feel sorry for the people supporting the person who was indulging in mud slinging on Islam, Quran and Prophet. It is more painful to see some people supporting such person to whom I used to considerate moderate and well informed. This is fault of basic education among Bohras. When they born and grow they just learn what is being taught to them via bayaans and sabaqs. When they get bored of them they come out of their shelves to explore the world. As they never bother to read about their religion, Quran or any other literature about Prophet, rather they know more fairy tails about 51 and 52nd dai. it is expected from them to get lure by evil minded opportunists.

I once again appeal to all forum members to discourage any move of miscreant against Islam, Quran and Prophet and Ahl e Bait by not arguing and ignoring them.

Admin , please do not give much time to such people as by the time we ban them it is too late and they had accomplished their mission of defaming Islam.

Many of Muslims are also visiting the board in curiosity of comparative religious study. I know some of them because they were my colleagues during my PHD research on same subject.

Admin
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#71

Unread post by Admin » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:28 pm

like_minded,

Yes it is unfortunate and we're not terribly happy with our decision either. As we stated, the problem was not his critical ideas but the vile and unacceptable language he used. We gave him enough warning and fair chance but he refused to behave. He got himself banned and it has nothing to do with our tolerance level or those of the participants. We do draw the line when it comes to abuse, hatred and foul language. You can criticize Islam and prophets all you want but to insult and vilify them just for the heck of it is neither a sign of maturity nor of intellect.

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#72

Unread post by S. Insaf » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:47 pm

Due respect for Prophets, Vasis, Imams and Dais as well as for other religions and faiths is a must in a civilised society.

Khuloos apni jagah, ikhtilaf apni jagah,
Hunar zaroor ho hadde-adab mein rehne ka

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#73

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:18 pm

Well said Insaf bhai. The guy lacked the "hunar", the finesse, the sensitivity to recognise "hadde-adab". Porus was correct in pointing out that he had only to discover some anti-christian or anti-this or anti-that site before he started spewing hatred against them as well. The internet like so many other things is a double-edged sword. It's a boon in that it opens up a mind-boggling array of information but a bane for the untrained, uncritical, impressionable minds who accept things at face value. Danish devoured these anti-islam sites and then came here and unloaded the crap without processing it or applying his critical filters. I too had warned him but I guess he was too gung-ho with his "new" knowledge to listen to good counsel.

Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#74

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:16 pm

Danish isn't the only one however. There are others on this board who attack Allah, his prophet and his quran and the hadith. But they do this with subtlety, hiding behind the quran and the hadith. Danish couldn't survive a couple of months. It's the others that we have to be prepared for.

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#75

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:21 pm

It is very unfortunate to ban Danish. Admin., please consider to revoke your decision.

Please note that freedom of expression is basic and fundamental human right. However, racial slurs and spiting poison against other relgions/regious personalities, etc. is not acceptable. I fail to understand that what is going to be achieved after doing such.

Admin
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#76

Unread post by Admin » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:42 pm

Sajid Zafar,

Danish got himself banned exactly for reasons you do not find acceptable, i.e., for "slurs and spiting poison against other relgions/regious personalities".

Freedom of expression is not an absolute value. For it to have any meaning it must be balanced by context and responsibility.

We can reconsider our decision if he promises to behave.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#77

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:43 pm

SZ,

Pls go back and read all the posts that Danish has written so far.. I am sure you will withdraw your support for him.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#78

Unread post by like_minded » Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:35 am

Admin

Please consider, and lift the ban on Danish.. By banning him, we are demonstrating our intolerance.. which is precisely the point he wanted to prove.

I am sure he is matured enough to refrain from slurs and spitting poison against Islam and its personalities, hereafter.

It is my humble request, please lift the ban. Thanks in advance.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#79

Unread post by like_minded » Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:50 am

Originally posted by Above Average Bohra:
Danish isn't the only one however. There are others on this board who attack Allah, his prophet and his quran and the hadith. But they do this with subtlety, hiding behind the quran and the hadith. Danish couldn't survive a couple of months. It's the others that we have to be prepared for.
AAB

You have a typical mindset isnt it? Gun down those who challenge the belief system.

Funny... I dont see any difference between you and the Kothari bohras!! Both conditioned, beyond repair!!

Admin
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#80

Unread post by Admin » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:38 pm

like_minded,

This forum is very tolerant and accommodating and nobody needs to prove anything to us. As we said we can reconsider our decision, let him write to us at reform@dawoodi-bohras.com and promise that he will abide by the minimum basic rules of this forum.

Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#81

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:46 pm

like_minded,

That is because you are "out of your mind".

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#82

Unread post by porus » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:37 pm

Like-minded,

Not only this board, but the vast majority of Muslims throughout the world, and through history, has demonstrated remarkable degree of tolerance towards people who hold different viewpoints. In fact, Quran enjoins respect for other faiths and encourages courteous dialog.

It is one thing to argue against, even to ridicule, the manner in which some Muslims interpret their religion. It is another to cross all bounds of civilized discourse and descend to blatant abuse of Quran and Prophet. After all, this is a Bohra forum and, for Bohras, these two are beyond reproach.

One must remember the background in which this forum operates. It is to encourage reform among Bohras. If Bohras judge this forum to be abusive of what they hold most sacred, it would cease to beckon them towards participation.

As far as Danish is concerned, there are plenty of anti-Muslim sites where he can indulge in his hobby-horse of abusing Quran and Prophet. Tolerance does not mean acceptance. It is accommodation to its inherently negative feature, non-acceptance. It falls somewhere on acceptance/non-acceptance axis beyond its neutral mid-point into non-acceptance. And every individual and society will not go beyond that point.

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#83

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:47 pm

I appreciated Admin. decision.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#84

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:03 am

Originally posted by porus:


It is one thing to argue against, even to ridicule, the manner in which some Muslims interpret their religion. It is another to cross all bounds of civilized discourse and descend to blatant abuse of Quran and Prophet. After all, this is a Bohra forum and, for Bohras, these two are beyond reproach.

Well said brother Porus.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#85

Unread post by Danish » Sun May 04, 2008 1:39 am

Originally posted by Admin:
like_minded,

This forum is very tolerant and accommodating and nobody needs to prove anything to us. As we said we can reconsider our decision, let him write to us at reform@dawoodi-bohras.com and promise that he will abide by the minimum basic rules of this forum.
Folks, just wanted to let you know that I responded back to the admin of this forum (at the given email above) in order to re-instate my account and sincerely apologized for my shortcomings and negative approach directing prophet Muhammad. I do not promise anything, however, I shall try my best to refrain from undesirable situations when countered. The admin was kind enough to listen and justified my reinstatement. I do genuinely appreciate the ones in support and sincerely apologise to the heartfelt. Hope we can continue with some constructive, meaningful and diligent discussions without insults and mudslings. Thanks.

mohammed_truthseeker
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#86

Unread post by mohammed_truthseeker » Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 pm

I do not think that this is a good idea to allow Danish post here. Nobody comes here to read his nasty comments on the Prophet and Islam.

Admin - Please respect people's sentiments. Also, this forum is for the sole purpose of discussion Bohris and their problems and not solve someone's doubts on Islam and Quran.

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#87

Unread post by SBM » Sun May 04, 2008 10:44 pm

I thought that everyone gets a second chance (Even Kotharis give a second chance once you give a big NAJWA and get humiliated) What is wrong for Danish to be back. Usually people who realize their mistakes are better people than the one who are brain dead and keep on repeating the same mistakes like being sheep and face humiliations at the hands of KOTHARIS.
I do give credit to Danish for accepting that he did cross lines and hopefully he will keep the arguments and debates without hurting the sentiments of Muslim Ummah.

mohammed_truthseeker
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#88

Unread post by mohammed_truthseeker » Mon May 05, 2008 2:27 am

Ok, let us see, if he mends his ways

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

#89

Unread post by S. Insaf » Mon May 05, 2008 6:57 am

Woh aabhi jaye to uski bhi kuch Ana rakhyo
Fasile-Qalb ka darwaza tum khula rakhyo