Hi,
I am a new member here and was just curious about the views of the rest of the board on marriage outside the Bohri community. I am a bit out of touch with the current practises and new modus operandi of fear and oppression, but are parents still told to "disown" their children and not have anything to do with them if they marry outside ? I'm assuming that the person marrying outside is automatically baraat, but is the rest of the family also socially boycotted ?
For most people, marriage outside the community is a major stumbling block, no matter how 'modern' and 'forward thinking' they say they are. I am curious as to the views of other members of this board on this topic. Also, what does Islam have to say about marrying a non-Muslim ?
Lastly, I would like to laud the efforts of this board and this website because it's the only place I know of in which we can have open dialogue on important social and reform issues in the Bohri community in particular and Islam in general.
Marriage
Re: Marriage
Hi emm
Marriage is the union of two hearts,souls and a common thinking. Doesn't matter who you marry as far as you are happy and have a life time commitment. Remember two things. If you are a boy and marrying a non-muslim girl do convert her to islam and follow one religion. This helps in upbringing of your kids with a clear direction. If you are a girl and marrying a non-muslim boy adopt the religion of your husband and follow his beliefs.
As far as laws of bohra community goes there is no baraat for marrying non-bohris as far as you are willing to fill the pockets of your local aamil. I have seen dramas happening at badri mahal (mumbai) where a special mulla has been appointed for looking into this kind of inter-marriage matters.
regards
husain
Marriage is the union of two hearts,souls and a common thinking. Doesn't matter who you marry as far as you are happy and have a life time commitment. Remember two things. If you are a boy and marrying a non-muslim girl do convert her to islam and follow one religion. This helps in upbringing of your kids with a clear direction. If you are a girl and marrying a non-muslim boy adopt the religion of your husband and follow his beliefs.
As far as laws of bohra community goes there is no baraat for marrying non-bohris as far as you are willing to fill the pockets of your local aamil. I have seen dramas happening at badri mahal (mumbai) where a special mulla has been appointed for looking into this kind of inter-marriage matters.
regards
husain
Re: Marriage
AKBAR BROTHERS SRI LANKA'S MAJOR TEA EXPORTER. AKBAR BROTHERS CONTROLS MORE THAN 45% OF THE TEA EXPORT IN SRI LANKA. HIS DAUGHTER WAS MARRIED TO SINHALESE BUDDHIST.
DID KHOTHAR GANG TAKE ANY ACTION? NO
WHEN YOU HAVE MONEY YOU ARE EXCUSED!
IF THIS HAPPENED IN A POOR FAMILY KHOTHAR WILL MAKE A FUSS!
SAME THING IS TRUE IN INDIA HOW MANY OF OUR GIRLS ARE HANGING AROUND DISCO PARTIES IN INDIA.
THIS IS CALLED DOUBLE STANDARDS APPROVED BY ..... AQA MOWLA.
<small>[ 11-02-2004, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]</small>
DID KHOTHAR GANG TAKE ANY ACTION? NO
WHEN YOU HAVE MONEY YOU ARE EXCUSED!
IF THIS HAPPENED IN A POOR FAMILY KHOTHAR WILL MAKE A FUSS!
SAME THING IS TRUE IN INDIA HOW MANY OF OUR GIRLS ARE HANGING AROUND DISCO PARTIES IN INDIA.
THIS IS CALLED DOUBLE STANDARDS APPROVED BY ..... AQA MOWLA.
<small>[ 11-02-2004, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]</small>
Re: Marriage
Hello People.
Im a hindu and im in love with a bhori muslim girl...I really do like this girl but obviously the whole caste thing is commin in between...what should i do..please do reply...
Im a hindu and im in love with a bhori muslim girl...I really do like this girl but obviously the whole caste thing is commin in between...what should i do..please do reply...
Re: Marriage
Hi Abhishek,
I can totally empathize with your situation because in my case the roles are reversed (I'm a Bohri guy and she's a Hindu girl) and though the girl's side has no problem, my parents are not very happy to say the least. One possible solution for you is of course 'conversion' which essentially means taking the 'misaq'. This would be the smoothest path but it depends on how strongly you feel about it and how seriously you treat the ceremony and the oaths they make you take. If the girl's parents are even remotely orthodox then it is going to be an uphill struggle for you and if you do decide NOT to convert, then even more difficult.
In my case, my girlfriend does not want to convert and I respect that. I don't see any reason for her to join this cult and had it not been for my parents and the repercussions this will have on them, I wouldn't give two hoots about what anyone thinks. I know of instances where people have been made to ask for 'forgiveness' for interacting with their children who have married outside the community - their own CHILDREN! I sometimes wonder if these people in the priestly hierarchy have even an ounce of common human decency left.
Anyway, Abhishek, as we both know with the way things are your girlfriend is probably heavily influenced by her parents and it will be difficult for her to go against their will. I just hope for your sake that they put their daughter's happiness in front of everything else and you two can actually get to be together.
Unfortunately, especially in these matters, it is very easy for parents to justify to themselves that they are doing something for their child's own good, when in truth it's the exact opposite!
I can totally empathize with your situation because in my case the roles are reversed (I'm a Bohri guy and she's a Hindu girl) and though the girl's side has no problem, my parents are not very happy to say the least. One possible solution for you is of course 'conversion' which essentially means taking the 'misaq'. This would be the smoothest path but it depends on how strongly you feel about it and how seriously you treat the ceremony and the oaths they make you take. If the girl's parents are even remotely orthodox then it is going to be an uphill struggle for you and if you do decide NOT to convert, then even more difficult.
In my case, my girlfriend does not want to convert and I respect that. I don't see any reason for her to join this cult and had it not been for my parents and the repercussions this will have on them, I wouldn't give two hoots about what anyone thinks. I know of instances where people have been made to ask for 'forgiveness' for interacting with their children who have married outside the community - their own CHILDREN! I sometimes wonder if these people in the priestly hierarchy have even an ounce of common human decency left.
Anyway, Abhishek, as we both know with the way things are your girlfriend is probably heavily influenced by her parents and it will be difficult for her to go against their will. I just hope for your sake that they put their daughter's happiness in front of everything else and you two can actually get to be together.
Unfortunately, especially in these matters, it is very easy for parents to justify to themselves that they are doing something for their child's own good, when in truth it's the exact opposite!
Re: Marriage
Hey EMM..i agree with u buddy..i told her dhat she need not change her caste or convert or anythin..i totally respect her for who she is and her religion..but she jus aint agreei cus probablr she is scared of da whole thing...Anyways lets hope for da best thats all i can say..take care cya..
Re: Marriage
Yup, when it comes to marriage outside the community there are a lot of social factors involved. It basically boils down to the fear of 'religiously approved' social boycott by the rest of the community of the girl's family in this case. If you read through some of the other posts, you will be able to see just how intense this social pressure can be. Anyway, good luck.
Re: Marriage
Salaam to all,
One of the multitude of reasons why a "religion" (unauthored and ungodly segregated castes) has its downside. Every human is entitled to marry another regardless of race, color, strength, power, looks, etc., etc. as long as they have common grounds in their beliefs, understandings, compatibilities, likeness, and so forth. Every human is but GOD's Creation.Originally posted by Emm:
Yup, when it comes to marriage outside the community there are a lot of social factors involved. It basically boils down to the fear of 'religiously approved' social boycott by the rest of the community of the girl's family in this case. If you read through some of the other posts, you will be able to see just how intense this social pressure can be. Anyway, good luck.
Re: Marriage
Br Danish Salaam
__________________________________________________
One of the multitude of reasons why a "religion" (unauthored and ungodly segregated castes) has its downside. Every human is entitled to marry another regardless of race, color, strength, power, looks, etc., etc. as long as they have common grounds in their beliefs, understandings, compatibilities, likeness, and so forth. Every human is but GOD's Creation.
_________________________________________________
You always tell to read Quran and want Ayats from Quran and have you not read Ayats forbidding a Believer woman in marrying a non believer.
__________________________________________________
One of the multitude of reasons why a "religion" (unauthored and ungodly segregated castes) has its downside. Every human is entitled to marry another regardless of race, color, strength, power, looks, etc., etc. as long as they have common grounds in their beliefs, understandings, compatibilities, likeness, and so forth. Every human is but GOD's Creation.
_________________________________________________
You always tell to read Quran and want Ayats from Quran and have you not read Ayats forbidding a Believer woman in marrying a non believer.
Re: Marriage
Salaams Br. Aislam,
I am not an expert when it comes to the Quran and do not know many of the Aayats and Suras. But I feel that religon is something very personal and that it is very possible for two different faiths to co-exist even in marriage.
One might argue that if we choose a particular faith we must accept everything connected with it (e.g. all the teachings of the Quran) in its entirety, but I think even you will agree that you will be hard pressed to find anyone who adheres to and follows each and every rule and teaching of Islam.
Some might call this personalisation "bending the rules" but I like to think of it as my own personal faith.
I am not an expert when it comes to the Quran and do not know many of the Aayats and Suras. But I feel that religon is something very personal and that it is very possible for two different faiths to co-exist even in marriage.
One might argue that if we choose a particular faith we must accept everything connected with it (e.g. all the teachings of the Quran) in its entirety, but I think even you will agree that you will be hard pressed to find anyone who adheres to and follows each and every rule and teaching of Islam.
Some might call this personalisation "bending the rules" but I like to think of it as my own personal faith.
Re: Marriage
Please read the romantic and inspiring story related in:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/yourstory/valentine.htm
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/yourstory/valentine.htm
Re: Marriage
Salaam Alislam,
If you befriend a non-believer to marry you who accepts your invitation to, and later believes humbly in the Oneness of GOD and abides by the basic rules of spiritual guidance and a "just" Way of Life, I see no reason but to consummate marriage.
There is no such enforcements and burdens on mankind as per GOD's System in which a Bohra must only marry a Bohra, a sunni with a sunni, a shia with a shia, a Christian with a Christian, and so forth. Such extravagancies are necessitated by self-proclaimed man-made religionists for Creed and Greed.
Emm has well said, hence the nuisance of "religions" and mbohra's posted story is a great example.
Certainly, I agree, but did you even care to read and understand what I said before posting judjements (see above in italics).Originally posted by Alislam:
Br Danish Salaam
__________________________________________________
One of the multitude of reasons why a "religion" (unauthored and ungodly segregated castes) has its downside. Every human is entitled to marry another regardless of race, color, strength, power, looks, etc., etc. as long as they have common grounds in their beliefs, understandings, compatibilities, likeness, and so forth. Every human is but GOD's Creation.
_________________________________________________
You always tell to read Quran and want Ayats from Quran and have you not read Ayats forbidding a Believer woman in marrying a non believer.
If you befriend a non-believer to marry you who accepts your invitation to, and later believes humbly in the Oneness of GOD and abides by the basic rules of spiritual guidance and a "just" Way of Life, I see no reason but to consummate marriage.
There is no such enforcements and burdens on mankind as per GOD's System in which a Bohra must only marry a Bohra, a sunni with a sunni, a shia with a shia, a Christian with a Christian, and so forth. Such extravagancies are necessitated by self-proclaimed man-made religionists for Creed and Greed.
Emm has well said, hence the nuisance of "religions" and mbohra's posted story is a great example.
Re: Marriage
Br Danish salaam
_______________________________________________
If you befriend a non-believer to marry you who accepts your invitation to, and later believes humbly in the Oneness of GOD and abides by the basic rules of spiritual guidance and a "just" Way of Life, I see no reason but to consummate marriage.
_________________________________________________
Here you are applying hypotetical conditions which depends on the person in question.
If the person is able to do all this then there is no reason why his partner (non believer) becomes a believer.
The laws are made keeping in view all the conditions and the creator knows very well about his creation before HE gives a law.
was salaam
_______________________________________________
If you befriend a non-believer to marry you who accepts your invitation to, and later believes humbly in the Oneness of GOD and abides by the basic rules of spiritual guidance and a "just" Way of Life, I see no reason but to consummate marriage.
_________________________________________________
Here you are applying hypotetical conditions which depends on the person in question.
If the person is able to do all this then there is no reason why his partner (non believer) becomes a believer.
The laws are made keeping in view all the conditions and the creator knows very well about his creation before HE gives a law.
was salaam
Re: Marriage
Dear Alislam,
"THE LAW" of GOD Almighty, has already been placed and set since the advent of man on earth and nothing has changed thus far. Sadly enough, it has been the man (male/female) ever since who has changed/modified the basic commandments therein, enforcing rules and conditions upon others in the name of GOD and other godly and ungodly characters, hence segragating amongst themselves to bring about the so-called "religions" and "cults" for their own benefits.
None of the prophets had anything to do with "religions" and they all came with one and the same basic message, including Muhammad. You and ofcourse the majority of mankind are engulfed, polluted and poisened with man-made "religious garments and ceremonies" to think otherwise. One must get out and free himself/herself from these corrupted shackles to think and reason clearly and wisely.
I stongly suggest/recommend that you and others to at least visit this site and study it carefully in its entirety: www.adidsafar.com.
"THE LAW" of GOD Almighty, has already been placed and set since the advent of man on earth and nothing has changed thus far. Sadly enough, it has been the man (male/female) ever since who has changed/modified the basic commandments therein, enforcing rules and conditions upon others in the name of GOD and other godly and ungodly characters, hence segragating amongst themselves to bring about the so-called "religions" and "cults" for their own benefits.
None of the prophets had anything to do with "religions" and they all came with one and the same basic message, including Muhammad. You and ofcourse the majority of mankind are engulfed, polluted and poisened with man-made "religious garments and ceremonies" to think otherwise. One must get out and free himself/herself from these corrupted shackles to think and reason clearly and wisely.
I stongly suggest/recommend that you and others to at least visit this site and study it carefully in its entirety: www.adidsafar.com.
That's my point and there's nothing hypothetical about it. Strongly put, WYSIWYG.Here you are applying hypotetical conditions which depends on the person in question.
If the person is able to do all this then there is no reason why his partner (non believer) becomes a believer.
Re: Marriage
My appologies, the website mentioned above is:
www.aididsafar.com.
Make sure you click on the "Content Table" and then click on the Introduction in English or the pdf English format located on the left hand side below. I hope you will get the general idea of what GOD's System is all about relevant to HIS Message - Al Quran.
www.aididsafar.com.
Make sure you click on the "Content Table" and then click on the Introduction in English or the pdf English format located on the left hand side below. I hope you will get the general idea of what GOD's System is all about relevant to HIS Message - Al Quran.
Re: Marriage
Br. Alislam,
I don't believe that God laid down His laws in such a way as to create divisions in human society. Also, I think it is ridiculous to restrict yourself to the Bohra community when it comes to looking for a soulmate.
I would also like to pose a question to you. If there is a devout Muslim that believes in the Prophet, the Imams and much of the Shia faith but refuses to accept the office of the da'i, then would it be alright to enter into marriage with that person ? I think this person would satisfy all the conditions of being a 'believer' according to you.
Br. Alislam, the question of marriage outside the community is much much less a religious issue than it is a social issue. By clever manipulations and by hanging the sword of excommunication over the head of the family involved, our clergy has made marriage outside the community an absoloute 'no-no'.
At a time of rapid change all over the world, and especially in India, it is sad to see our community regressing.
I don't believe that God laid down His laws in such a way as to create divisions in human society. Also, I think it is ridiculous to restrict yourself to the Bohra community when it comes to looking for a soulmate.
I would also like to pose a question to you. If there is a devout Muslim that believes in the Prophet, the Imams and much of the Shia faith but refuses to accept the office of the da'i, then would it be alright to enter into marriage with that person ? I think this person would satisfy all the conditions of being a 'believer' according to you.
Br. Alislam, the question of marriage outside the community is much much less a religious issue than it is a social issue. By clever manipulations and by hanging the sword of excommunication over the head of the family involved, our clergy has made marriage outside the community an absoloute 'no-no'.
At a time of rapid change all over the world, and especially in India, it is sad to see our community regressing.
Re: Marriage
Hi Abhishek,
Any further news from either end ? Has she told her parents yet ? Any idea about their reaction ?
Emm
Any further news from either end ? Has she told her parents yet ? Any idea about their reaction ?
Emm
Re: Marriage
Br Emm salaam
There would be no problem in marrying a person who is a muslim and even when the person is a non muslim there is no issue as long as certain conditions are met so as to avoid the social issues, as you have rightly said that marriage is more of a social issue than a realigious issue.
was salaam
There would be no problem in marrying a person who is a muslim and even when the person is a non muslim there is no issue as long as certain conditions are met so as to avoid the social issues, as you have rightly said that marriage is more of a social issue than a realigious issue.
was salaam