Zakah is a Tax

[Average Bohra]

In researching this topic further I explored websites that Wahabis frequent, and I found no contradiction there to my surprise; in fact open admission that Zakah is a tax. This is evidenced in topics such as <u>The Muslims have to pay taxes</font> (which is 2.5 percent of their annual income) under the name of "Zakah"</u>, or <u>Zakah: obligatory tax</font> for Muslims</u> . Since I prefer not to advertise these extremist sites, you can Google it like I did to confirm the source.

However, the fact is that, Zakah (tax) is more regressive than a tax in a democratic institution as it is very limited in its scope, it is a tax without representation, and does not impose limits on the personal earnings of the designated collector or agency.

It is more regressive as everyone pays the same percentage regardless of their wealth.

It is limited in scope because it does not allow for expenditures for schools, education, or medical facilities for the poor (to name a few), thereby ensuring that the poor are always dependant on the Zakah with no hope for betterment or improving their plight.

It is without representation as the tax payer has no say in how the money is being spent, and cannot limit the amount that ends up in the collector’s coffers.

The effects of the above is plainly evident in all Islamic countries.

[anajmi]

It is more regressive as everyone pays the same percentage regardless of their wealth.

A lie.

It is limited in scope because it does not allow for expenditures for schools, education, or medical facilities for the poor (to name a few), thereby ensuring that the poor are always dependant on the Zakah with no hope for betterment or improving their plight.

Another lie.

It is without representation as the tax payer has no say in how the money is being spent, and cannot limit the amount that ends up in the collector’s coffers.

Again, a lie.

The moderator of this board should not allow more than 2 lies per post, I think.

[anajmi]

The Muslims have to pay taxes (which is 2.5 percent of their annual income) under the name of "Zakah"

One more lie. Although this one could be a mis-statement. But knowing Average Bohra, probably a lie. If someone wants details, let me know. I will tell why this is a lie or a mis-statement.

And here are some definitions of tax :-

"charge against a citizen's person or property or activity for the support of government "

1 a : a charge usually of money imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes b : a sum levied on members of an organization to defray expenses
2 : a heavy demand

A contribution for the support of a government required of persons, groups, or businesses within the domain of that government.
A fee or dues levied on the members of an organization to meet its expenses.
A burdensome or excessive demand; a strain.

charge imposed by the government on people, entities, or on property in order to raise revenue.

Here is the definition of charity.

"a system of giving money, food or help free to those who are in need because they are ill, poor or homeless, or any organization which is established to provide money or help in this way:"

Here is the definition of zakat.

"Zakat means grow (in goodness) or 'increase', 'purifying' or 'making pure'. So the act of giving zakat means purifying one's wealth togain Allah's blessing to make it grow in goodness."

Here is what the quran says about zakat.

Surat At-Tauba(9) verse 60
"Zakat is for the poor, and the needy and those who are employed to administer and collect it, and the new converts, and for those who are in bondage, and in debt and service of the cause of Allah, and for the wayfarers, a duty ordained by Allah, and Allah is the All-Knowing, the Wise".

Using the example of Islamic rulers that have been corrupted by America to say that Islam itself is corrupt is a lie used by the American fockers to kill, rape and steal that which belongs to Muslims.

[anajmi]

And those web sites that Average talks about are probably run by the hate-islam-and-muslims-because-they-have-all-the-oil crowd just like himself.

[anajmi]

Average Bohra's first lie.

The Muslims have to pay taxes (which is 2.5 percent of their annual income) under the name of "Zakah"

Muslims do not have to pay 2.5% of their annual income as zakah. They have to pay 2.5% of their savings accumulated for a year as zakah. For eg, I may be earning $100,000 per annum and I have 4 wives and 16 kids and I save about $500 a year. Then the zakah I have to pay is 2.5% of $500 which is $12.5.

A friend of mine however earns $100,000, has 1 wife and 2 kids and saves $10,000 per annum. Then the zakah that he has to pay is 2.5% of $10,000 which is $250.

If however someone does not have any savings and does not have any investments or gold or silver and even if he is earning a million dollars per annum, he does not have to pay zakah.

At the same time if two people earning $100,000 and $50,000 respectively, manage to save $5,000 each, then both of them will have to pay the same zakah of $125.

Similar savings puts them both on similar grounds. A perfect system I would say.

That brings us to Average Bohra's second lie.

It is more regressive as everyone pays the same percentage regardless of their wealth.

Please look at my explanations above.

More to follow soon.

[Average Bohra]

Anajmi,

I know the very basis of your foundation and faith has been shaken in your ignorance regarding the fact that Zakah is a Tax. Just like any other Tax it is generally calculated based on taxable income. Since this has stirred up emotional hysteria on your part, I will post the sites so you can do your research and educate yourself on the fact that Zakah is a Tax .

The Muslims have to pay taxes (which is 2.5 percent of their annual income) under the name of "Zakah"
http://www.answering-christianity.com/jizyah.htm

Zakah: obligatory tax for Muslims
http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news ... ice_id=590

I suggest you take it one step at a time. First realize that it is a tax , then worry about how it is calculated as it differs from country to country.

Many Happy Returns

[anajmi]

Average Bohra,

This is what you have to realize, it does not matter what the those extremist web-sites say about what zakat is. Infact I am surprised that you would want to use extremist web-sites to prove your point.

I would really appreciate it if you could prove your point from the quran and sunnah.

There is no way to explain what zakat is in single word in the English language. See, the people who speak just the English language have extremely limited verbal capabilities. Not to mention their mental capabilities. The closest a single word that comes to zakat is tax, so that fools can understand. But then there are explanations that go along with these one word translations, but since these explanations are actually more than one word, they fail to register with people like you completely.

Now as far as different calculations in different countries go, who gives a rat's ass how a country decides to calculate zakat. What matters is how the prophet asked one to calculate. I am sure there weren't 50 muslim countries during the time of the prophet. There was only one muslim nation.

Well, that was a lot of words!!

[anajmi]

And I would suggest that you too should take it one step at a time. What you need to do is first figure out what "tax" is, and then try to figure out if zakah is a tax or not.

And I apologize for my emotional hysteria. I can't bear it when people lie this blatantly.

[anajmi]

By the way, I checked out those web-sites and you were smart to post what you posted. See if you would've posted a little bit more, you would've exposed yourself.

One web-site says - as you correctly stated - "The Muslims have to pay taxes (which is 2.5 percent of their annual income) under the name of "Zakah","

The other web-site states what you stated - "Zakah: obligatory tax for Muslims " however what you did not state was this "The Zakah tax is the third pillar of Islam. It consists of the payment of a specific portion of wealth whenever the total savings of a person reaches a specific level. This wealth is then distributed to a specific set of beneficiaries at a specific time in order to improve the general welfare. "

So both the sites you refer to say different things about zakat. No wonder you are confused.

[porus]

Quran mentions the word 'zakaat' in 32 ayats. None would imply it to be tax as currently understood, whether tax on income or asset.

The word nearest in meaning in Christian mysticism is the word "tithe". The latter means voluntary giving away money for a worthy purpose in the belief that it benefits others and that it somehow comes back to the giver multiplied. Quran uses the word in the same way but promises reward in the hereafter too.

Indeed, if zakaat was tax, then it would be so called in Muslim countries. But in Arab coountries tax is called "daribaa" or "rasm". Incom Tax is called "daribat as-sukhul". In Urdu, tax is called "mehsool" This too indicates that zakaat haa religious or spiritual connotation.

When it comes to calculation, there are different interpretations. Some sects enforce calculation, others leave it to individuals.

If Islam is truly accepted by the faithful, then they would give zakaat just as they go for namaaz.

But the reality is that the filthy lucre tempts the devil in humans.

[porus]

Income Tax in Arabic is called "Daribat ad-dukhul". That was a typo.

[Average Bohra]

I know we all tend to ramble on at times, so I may have missed your point.

So, is Zakah a tax as currently understood or not ?

[porus]

My interpretation of the Quran is that zakaat is not tax as the word is currently understood.

However, amongst Bohras, it operates as if it is a tax, levied by an 'authority', who has its own quirks for calculating it and censuring those who do not pay. And like tax, it tends to be avoided as much as possible.

Quran implies no such external authority except individuals' personal authority as internalised by them through the teaching of faith.

So, no coercion is indicated. But history of people is a different matter. Social pressure would probably force you to part with zakaat.

[anajmi]

zakat calculation

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

“Nothing is incumbent on you, that is, on gold, till it reaches twenty dinars. When you possess twenty dinars and one year passes on them, half a dinar is payable. Whatever exceeds, that will be reckoned properly. No Zakah is payable on property till a year passes on it.”
(Reported by Abu Dawud)

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

“No Zakah is due on property mounting to less than five Uqiyahs (128 grams of silver).” (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

A lot of similar hadith are there which calculate animals based upon differing factors. Not all may come up with an exact figure of 2.5% which again goes to prove that it is not a tax but just a way to give in charity to purify your wealth.

If you want to know more this extremist web site may prove useful. It lists a lot of hadiths and thankfully none of them use the word "tax".

http://www.islam-for-everyone.com/teach ... sson19.htm

[anajmi]

The next Average Bohra lie.

It is without representation as the tax payer has no say in how the money is being spent, and cannot limit the amount that ends up in the collector’s coffers.

I think Average Bohra over here is confused with the tax that is collected by the IRS. I have no say in how my tax money is used, otherwise I would've said a thing or too about bombing the schools and hospitals in Iraq by the American fockers using my tax money. And ofcourse there is no way I can limit the amoutn that ends up in the collector's coffers.

As far as zakah is concerned, I have the knowledge of where every penny of mine went cause I and my family members distribute it and I know not a penny ends up where it does not belong. Of course I cannot say the same about Muslim leaders that have been corrupted by the American fockers and are stealing even zakah from their innocent citizens.

According to hadith zakah can be spent on these and these alone. So no building nuclear bombs with this "tax"

a) The poor whose income, even if it is more than the Nisab, does not suffice their basic needs and those under their care.

b) Those who are indigent; that is, those who have no source of income.

c) Those who administer the Zakah department, assigning people for collecting, book keeping, and making lists of people eligible for Zakah.

d) The new converts to Islam whose hearts need to be harmonized into the fold of Islam, and some non-Muslims for their good neighborhood or to ward off their harm.

e) The bondsmen who have contracted with their masters to buy themselves out of bondage. They deserve Zakah and should be given enough to pay off their debt to the masters and be freed, or to buy them to set them free (slavery gradually ended among Muslims because of this legislation).

f) People in debt: debtors who are unable to pay their debts, but on condition that the debt is not in a sinful deed which he has not repented of.

g) In the Path of Allah, at the top of which is Jihad for the propagation and vindication of Islam and Muslims, and everything that is of benefit for the Muslim community, including its infrastructure, public utilities and services.

h) The wayfarer. He is the traveler who runs out of money in a strange land.

More to come soon.

[anajmi]

Another one of Average Bohra's lies

It is limited in scope because it does not allow for expenditures for schools, education, or medical facilities for the poor (to name a few), thereby ensuring that the poor are always dependant on the Zakah with no hope for betterment or improving their plight.

You know this is the beauty of the zakat system in Islam. Zakat is for the poor and that's it. Now if a school is built using the zakah money, obviously not just poor children but better off children will attend too. Of course the rich can pay for their education but the poor are still where they were before the school was built in the first place.

However if we let the rich build the schools and use the zakah money to pay for the fees or books or equipment needed for the poor children to go to school, everybody wins. Something Average Bohra forgot to mention, purposely I would say.

The same applies for hospitals. Zakah money cannot be used to build hospitals however zakah money can be used to provide care and medicine for the poor. Something Average Bohra forgot to mention, purposely I would say.

And the Avergage Bohra says "thereby ensuring that the poor are always dependant on the Zakah with no hope for betterment or improving their plight."

Again, a bigger lie had not been spoken before. If you look at the uses of zakah as an example, a couple come to attention

1 - The bondsmen who have contracted with their masters to buy themselves out of bondage. They deserve Zakah and should be given enough to pay off their debt to the masters and be freed, or to buy them to set them free (slavery gradually ended among Muslims because of this legislation).

2 - People in debt: debtors who are unable to pay their debts, but on condition that the debt is not in a sinful deed which he has not repented of.

Freeing slaves and those who are in debt is considered by Average Bohra as ensuring that the poor are always dependant on the Zakah with no hope for betterment.

Now please judge if Average Bohra is full of shit or if he is full of shit!!

[Average Bohra]

Porus,

amongst Bohras, it operates as if it is a tax, levied by an 'authority'

The rest of Islam considers it to be levied by God (which it is); same difference. It is a tax because it functions as one, not because of how it is calculated, or who it is levied by.

Anajmi,

You have a way of dumbing down every topic. Your multiple posts are a painful read and border on idiocy. I could post a topic " Why is a clear summer sky blue ?" and you would come back with " because it is not black ", "because the Quran says it's purple and your sun glasses are un-Islamic", "because it is really Red, but Americans make the poor Muslims see Blue".

Out of respect for all those who take the time to read and respond to posts on this discussion board .............please get a brain.

Never mind.....too late.

[anajmi]

huh!!

The reason I have multiple posts is because I have 16 truths to counter every one of your lies.

And considering your limited verbal and mental capabilities I have to dumb down every topic. And still you remain an idiot.

[anajmi]

Well, my mistake. You are not dumb, you are a liar.

[JC]

Anajmi,

There are so many interpretations. Zakat is an Islamic Tax abd I believe it should be used for ALL type of State expenses such as schools, hospitals and infra-structure, defence and for other charitable works.

You have said a lot about 'opne mind' on other post but i will like to leave that to you. My point is that nothing is absolute or perfect even Islam though it is best today but I will strive for better and will always believe that we should keep on working towards perfection.

Lastly pls answer me on this:

If there is an Islamic State, what will be the 'source of revenue' for that state or government? How will the state generate its revenues?

And you still to check out 'Ushr' which is tax on Agricultural Income in an Islamic State.

[anajmi]

JC,

What you think it should be used for is immaterial.

The thinking has been done by an authority which is much higher than you or I.

The question is just whether you believe in that authority or not. If not, then use it for whatever you like.

[anajmi]

As far as revenues for an Islamic State are concerned, I am paying 25% of my income to a kafir right now what makes you think I and other muslims won't pay that much to an Islamic State?

[JC]

Anajmi,

RIGHT, IF you are paying 25% to a Kafir (State) why will you not pay to an Islamic State.

My question is HOW ...????
What is the modes operandi??
What is the percentage?
Who will determine that?
And will it be Islamic as it is not in Quran or Hadiath - that means Muslims will have the 'option' to pay or not.
What if majority refuses to pay it as UnIslamic?

Let us ask Khan who is still in Saudi Arabia. Saudia is not the role model of Islamic State but I know that there is Zakat enforced by law there and there is some Ministry or Department which oversees the collection. I also know that Zakat Returns are filed there. To me that is perfectly alright as govt is following an Islamic Procedure for collecting tax. It is rumoured that they may impose Income Tax too, my point here is that Islamic State will need revenues for its fuctioning and zakat is one of the taxes. Islam has set a rule, a precedent and we can improve on it when necessity comes.

[Alislam]

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Islam has set a rule, a precedent and we can improve on it when necessity comes.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

A broader perspective is given and can be moulded to suit the present conditions.

It is possible when Quran is viewed in the present light and history has examples of Islamic governance in the best possible manner (For example the Fatimids of Egypt).

The literal interpretors are like the "Lakir ka fakir Wahabi", who wants to still live in the 6th century and view things from his limited perspective..

The result of this is quite visible to us in the likes of Al Qaeda, Talibans etc.,

[anajmi]

JC,

My question is HOW ...????
Well, why don't you give me some suggestions and I will see which one is the best.

What is the modes operandi??
Well, why don't you give me some suggestions and I will see which one is the best.

What is the percentage?
As I suggested, we can start with say 15% and go upto 35% or 50% or how about 75%? If you get poor then you will become the states responsibility so you don't have to worry even if you give 100%.

Who will determine that?
I just did.

And will it be Islamic as it is not in Quran or Hadiath - that means Muslims will have the 'option' to pay or not.
What if majority refuses to pay it as UnIslamic?

You have to understand what is UnIslamic. That which is explicitly prohibited by the quran or prophet is UnIslamic. Everything else is subject to jurisprudence. If majority still do not want to pay, then do what the Americans do. Fine them and then throw them in jail. This is allowed as it is better for the entire Muslim Ummah.

[anajmi]

Like say for example a guy having sex with another guy is explicitly prohibited.

However organ donation is not considered unislamic by a lot of Ulema.

The following institutes have called upon Muslims to donate organs for transplantation.

- the Shariah Academy of the Organisation of Islamic
- Conference (representing all Muslim countries)
the Grand Ulema Council of Saudi Arabia.
- the Iranian Religious Authority
- the Al-Azhar Academy of Egypt

[Muslim]

Zakat is calculated on wealth, not income. Secondly, alot of personal possessions are excluded from zakat e.g. the home you live in, home furnishings, etc. Both reasons make it a progressive levy.

[Average Bohra]

Muslim,

Zakat tax calculations also include wages [ income ]and wealth. Here's an example:

http://www.zakatinfo.com/calc_short.shtml

All tax calculations allow for deductions.

[JC]

Anajmi,

Thanks for the reply.

So you are coming around ACCEPTING that there are things (like Taz, organ donation/transplantation etc) which are not in Quran or Sunnah OR not in a way which could help us today. You said WE can determine a percentage and even a procedure, so it means time and age has dictated a thing which we all are willing to do (Ijtehad) and follow. Pls. donot say if Majority will not pay Islamic Tax, do like Americans do - pls understand, there will be no choice or option for an Islamic Govt if the population refuses to pay - it has to run a COUNTRY. You have named institutuins which have made organ transplantation and donation ALLOWABLE. That is exactly my point. WE can decide on certain things as dictated by time and age. Today you are saying 'Whatever is not UnIslamic or strictly prohibited may be allowed' - so it means you have an open mind! What if after 100 years people come to the conclusion that what was once UnIslamic has lost its validity and can be allowed at that time - YES, there is a possibilty.

[Muslim]

Average Bohra,

The website you refer to asks for your income in order to calculate your increase in wealth. (The "Savings" section calculates savings from the previous year that you have kept for a year). That is why it allows for "the cost of food, housing, utilities, medical, transportation, and other basic necessities" because that is pretty much what most people spend on excluding luxury goods. They are not merely deductions as with conventional income tax, but your entire basic cost of living. The idea is that luxury items which are a statement of your wealth SHOULD count towards calculating zakat but your basic cost of living should not. In effect, poor people who spend a greater proportion of their income on essential items and have little savings and spend little on luxury items would pay a lesser proportion of their income in zakat - a progressive burden.

If that does not make sense then suppose:

- person A earns $20,000 but spends $5,000 on housing, food, etc
- person B earns $30,000 but spends $20,000 on housing, food, etc

All other things being nil, who pays more zakat? Does that sound like an income tax or a tax on wealth you are accumulating?