do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

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Al Zulfiqar
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#1

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:29 pm

if and when a benign dai appears on the scene, someone who is a dai in the real sense of the term along the lines of the great ali ibne abitalib himself, (whom we acknowledge as the first philospher of islam, the vasih and vali of the prophet, the shere khuda, a mushqil kusha) do you think he would demolish the raudat tahera?

considering that it is built to bury and hide the sins of a man who brought untold pain, suffering and misery upon hundreds and thousands of innocent bohras and even the wealthy well-wishers of our community, who was an immoral person who established sexual liasions with his elder brothers wife and then abused, tortured and murdered his sick brother and his wife and father-in-law who stood in his way, who illegaly appropriated bohra properties worldwide and lived off its wealth, who got so drunk with power that he claimed to be allah's representative on earth, who went berserk with the community, insulting and degrading them, who altered namaz's, allowed qasida's in his own honour, sought fame, titles, prestige and money, and then proceeded to live off his ill-gotten gains, who hob-nobbed with criminals, politicians and power brokers to cement his hold on our community etc.

should such a grand mausolueum be torn down or kept to mark the criminality of such a dai?

JC
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#2

Unread post by JC » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:31 pm

Grave-Worshipping is TOTALLY wrong from any point of view you see. Logic, rationale, religion, common sense, all will tell you grave worship is useless. So for a starter there should NOT be any Roza craps anywhere.

For this specific dictator and Shams-ul-Zalamins, yes, his so-called roda should be demolished at once. No arguing!! His grave should be left as is without any marks. He is gone, and gone for ever. Praising or Cursing him will not help anyone. So let the bygones be bygones - dust to dust and ashes to ashes.

S. Insaf
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#3

Unread post by S. Insaf » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:03 pm

Fatemi Dai is resting in peace in a costly marble mausoleum in the heart of city where as the fountain head of Fatemi Dawat Hazrat Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s grave is a symbolic heap of dust in the Jannat-ul Baqeeh graveyard. Which Islam are we following?

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#4

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:30 pm

how do we know that his soul is resting in peace? can zaalims ever get peace here or in the hereafter? all we see is a beautiful monument built on the misery of bohras...

as for grave worshipping, u are abslutely right brother..that is a deviance from the very founding principles of islam, but then are the bohras of today really muslims?

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#5

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:40 pm

how about some comments from the kothari haiwaans here? what do u think about razing this evil monument?

if u are worried about yr share of the loot from the galla of the roza, do not worry, we will arrange it for u....

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#6

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:04 am

has anyone here heard of one of the greatest conmen in history, 'count victor von ludwig'?

well, he was the guy who actually 'sold off' the eiffel tower to an aspring american millionaire, some decades ago by means of an elaborate and sophisticated scam.

why not pull off something similar and sell of this damn raudat tahera? the proceeds would be of great use in blackmailing the kothar to walk the straight line or else? ...

pro_pig
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#7

Unread post by pro_pig » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:37 am

aulfiqar, u are the devil man i have ever seen in my life. i am not suppose to say but as u brought this topic i wish that when u die your body should stink and nobody should their to drop a honey water in your mouth and to grave.
i whish your parents should slap u went u became an *** hole.this shows what kind of quality u are.feel sorry for u.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#8

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:16 pm

profesional suwwar,

you feeling sorry for ME??!! that has to be the biggest joke that i have ever heard...!! its like an cockroach feeling sorry for an elephant.

as usual you betray your gutter-level background by doing gaali galoch and nothing else..after all what else do you have? and when are we celebrating tahr saifuddin's first wife's urus? (moh'd burhanuddin's mother)

when you die we will raise a grand tomb above you befitting a jaanwar of yr stature and call it "suwwar mahal". and in the galla there we will deposit plenty of fresh human excrement daily for you and yr family members to enjoy in perpetuity. there, now are you satisfied?

obviously you have the raza of yr syedna to come here and do gaali galoch. how much are you paid or do you get the pleasure of lending yr backside? pls clarify at yr earliest convenience. thanks.

S. Insaf
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#9

Unread post by S. Insaf » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:37 pm

Dear brother Al Zulfiqar,
Our side is very very strong. We have plenty of proofs for the wrong-doings of our religious establishment. My humble request is to argue on this board with patience and conclusiveness.
The holy Qura'n says:
"Call unto the way of Thy Lord with wisdom and good exhortation, and reason with them in the best way. Lo! thy Lord best knows those who go astray from his path, and He knows best those who are rightly guided." (Chapter 16, verse 125)

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#10

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:03 pm

Dear Saifuddinbhai,

I have the greatest respect for you and your wisdom, patience and restraint. in most circumstances the reasonable way is the best way, but where i humbly disagree is in the manner of dealing with a foe who is incorrigible and shameless and resorts to dishonest and despicable means to vanquish his enemies. who hides behind lies and deceit. who will stop at nothing to wipe out those whom he sees as a threat to his existence and treachery.

Even our great Prophet (SAW) had to resort to arms on numerous occasions when all reasonable talk failed and the enemies of Islam on the contrary went on the offensive. Courtesy, good manners and diplomacy are the best, and always should be reciprocated, but there is a time when they no longer work.

I can agree to disagree with anyone, provided we respect each other in a civilised society, but what is the kothar today? are they civilised, reasonable, courteous, willing to listen and change? You are a better judge than most.

I have patiently watched from the sidelines my entire life, and I see that the situation instead of improving, is steadily going from bad to worse. Can anyone blame me if I or others tend to get impatient now?!

makberi
Posts: 327
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#11

Unread post by makberi » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:12 am

we all know that the Quran has been written with Gold in the raudat tahera n that bismillah has been written with diamonds....i dont understand the purpose of this???....do the meaning of the words change if they are written with Gold.....does the Quran which is held in high reverence by all muslims and considered as the word of God need to be adorned with these worldly ornaments for ppl to realise its beauty...honestly Quran is much above any of these worldy items n by using such ornaments to "beautify" the Quran ..the syedna has contradicted the very purpose for which God has sent his word to us......

like_minded
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#12

Unread post by like_minded » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:26 am

Al Zulfikar Bhai,

Situation in our community is NEVER going to improve, Lets accept that fully first.

Now let us look at it... Why isnt it improving?? Because Kothar is obviously shameless, we know that, can we go to Kothar level and make them understand that they are wrong? It is not possible, because they have various philosophies to prove themselves!!

Now we come down.. we go to ordinary bohras, who think Kothar is GOD, they believe Kothar, more than they belive themselves.. What we do?? we dont fight them, we just show them a picture of Kothar, which we are doing here (by exposing them with proofs) whats the result?? they abuse us with flow of laanats, Now here, we stop, are we having any more options?? we should ask our ownselves, YES, we have...

We have tried all methods to awaken the sleeping followers of Kothar, Now let us try this method, just try... We LOVE these followers, simply LOVE them, for whatever they are, I am sure we are doing it anyway. (I am doing it anyway) before we never LOVED them, but now we will TRY, by finding what HATRED is all about... This way we can only LOVE them, when there is a connection... then LOVE flows... When these sleeping bohras SEE this, they respond, they have to respond, this way we are connecting... when there is connection.. they understand us, initially they try, but gradually they do.... surely they will understand us that we dont hate them nor we hate syedna, we only hate arrogance, we hate greed, we hate oneman-ship, by doing this.. we become aware what LOVE is all about.. then surely they respond..... we wait.... patiently, because we are trying....

Thats what S.Insaf bhai is doing, Dr.Asgarali Engineer is doing anyway, whether out of this awareness or not, I dont know, but surely reform will happen... I am confident, so I try... Lets all try... keep trying...

makberi
Posts: 327
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#13

Unread post by makberi » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:48 am

i think likeminded has explained very well the fact that the fight isnt really against syedna or the kothar but the vices that plague these institutions......n v have to make conservative bohras realise this fact.....well said..i think i m seing wat ur tryin to say....

like_minded
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#14

Unread post by like_minded » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:00 am

Originally posted by makberi:
i think likeminded has explained very well the fact that the fight isnt really against syedna or the kothar but the vices that plague these institutions......n v have to make conservative bohras realise this fact.....well said..i think i m seing wat ur tryin to say....
I have said nothing new, so, brother dont say.. well said..
This is eactly what we are doing anyway.... All I am saying is.. let us do it with AWARENESS

S. Insaf
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#15

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:58 pm

Khalil Jibran says:
If you want dethrone a tyrant ruler, try and see that he is dethroned from the hearts of his subjects.
Our struggle is Bohra masses. We have to make them understand what is going wrong in our community. The rulers off course will try their tricks to keep their grip tight. I see with our continuous efforts the grip is slowly getting loose.
I have experienced this mass psychology in my life that in a crowd people wait who can first hit a culprit and then they pounce upoun him without looking at left or right. So lets we be the first hitter in the real sense.

truebohra
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#16

Unread post by truebohra » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:28 pm

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
Khalil Jibran says:
If you want dethrone a tyrant ruler, try and see that he is dethroned from the hearts of his subjects.
Our struggle is Bohra masses. We have to make them understand what is going wrong in our community. The rulers off course will try their tricks to keep their grip tight. I see with our continuous efforts the grip is slowly getting loose.
I have experienced this mass psychology in my life that in a crowd people wait who can first hit a culprit and then they pounce upoun him without looking at left or right. So lets we be the first hitter in the real sense.
Insaf people like u have existed from ages. When there is good there is always some evil to oppose it. You are mistaking the love for Dai to mass psychology. Dawoodi Bohras have tradition of faitht towards dawat and dais. Most of the progs assume me to be a "Kothari" with thier short sightedness and ignorance. I am a middle class bohri. i have never experienced any kind of pressure or force from my jamat or aamil. This is my personal experience. i am not lying and would not waste my time in defending in something i don't believe in. Ur dreams would remain dreams progs.

Alislam
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#17

Unread post by Alislam » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:28 pm

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I am a middle class bohri. i have never experienced any kind of pressure or force from my jamat or aamil. This is my personal experience. i am not lying and would not waste my time in defending in something i don't believe in. Ur dreams would remain dreams progs.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Truebohra must be living in Antartica, where there is no aamil present.
OR you are a part of the hafta wasool chamchas of aamil and share the loot.

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#18

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:10 am

Brother truebohra,
The establishments like our today's religious establishment have also existed from ages and hence Allah had to send more than a lakh prophets to oppose them and liberate the masses from their clutches.
You must have not been pressurized because you must be following the dictates of our establishment with folded hands. The problem comes when out of some helplessness or according to his or her consciousness sone one tries to refuse the dictates. Try it please and you would know how ruthless and merciless they are.

truebohra
Posts: 413
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#19

Unread post by truebohra » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:16 am

Originally posted by Alislam:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I am a middle class bohri. i have never experienced any kind of pressure or force from my jamat or aamil. This is my personal experience. i am not lying and would not waste my time in defending in something i don't believe in. Ur dreams would remain dreams progs.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Truebohra must be living in Antartica, where there is no aamil present.
OR you are a part of the hafta wasool chamchas of aamil and share the loot.
:D u people assume too much. I live in one of the western suburbs of Mumbai. My name is Murtuza. I am a small shop keeper. We have two jamats one on East side & other on West side and also two aamils.

truebohra
Posts: 413
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#20

Unread post by truebohra » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:32 am

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
Brother truebohra,
The establishments like our today's religious establishment have also existed from ages and hence Allah had to send more than a lakh prophets to oppose them and liberate the masses from their clutches.
You must have not been pressurized because you must be following the dictates of our establishment with folded hands. The problem comes when out of some helplessness or according to his or her consciousness sone one tries to refuse the dictates. Try it please and you would know how ruthless and merciless they are.
But then Mr S. Insaf you are not a prophet. What dictates?. I follow our tradition not bcoz of fear of aamil or jamat. but bcoz i have faith in it. I have faith that wajebat has is the haq that we are paying. I am not able to attend all the majlises bcoz of time & place constraint but i try and find time to go to majlises if possible. No one has forced me to attend majlis till date. Yes our Aamil do tell us to attend every majlis if possible but have not forced me for it. I didnt use to keep beard when i was in college i was never stopped from attending any majlis or ziyarat. This all are my personal experience. I do agree that some of the aamils or jamaat members may be corrupt but then let us not generalize things.

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#21

Unread post by makberi » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:34 am

bro truebohra....
let suppose God forbid ur business suffers..ur finding it hard to make ends meet....ramadan is approaching....n everyone is asked to make their sabil and wajebaat payments....n unfortunately u cannot.....then wat shall happen....u will not be alloted a place in the masjid to pray.. u will not be issued a safai chithi to go for ziyaarat....it wud be as if ur not a bohri anymore.....u think this is justified
many bohris fear this n thus are "forced" to pay even if they r finding it hard on their pockets.....

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#22

Unread post by makberi » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:27 am

with regards to beard bro truebohra...i wud like to point out that i was not given tazia when a relative passed away....... by the aamil becuz i dint keep a beard...

like_minded
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#23

Unread post by like_minded » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:19 pm

But then Mr S. Insaf you are not a prophet. What dictates?. I follow our tradition not bcoz of fear of aamil or jamat. but bcoz i have faith in it. I have faith that wajebat has is the haq that we are paying. I am not able to attend all the majlises bcoz of time & place constraint but i try and find time to go to majlises if possible. No one has forced me to attend majlis till date. Yes our Aamil do tell us to attend every majlis if possible but have not forced me for it. I didnt use to keep beard when i was in college i was never stopped from attending any majlis or ziyarat. This all are my personal experience. I do agree that some of the aamils or jamaat members may be corrupt but then let us not generalize things.

Bro True bohra..

I fully agree with your view.. You are right, but can you think of bohras who dont agree with your view? How will you justify? If you say some aamils and jamat members may be corrupt, try to find out why they are corrupt... ad you will get aswers.

pro_pig
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#24

Unread post by pro_pig » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:13 pm

like mimded,
u are right and i agree with u these (insaf,zulfiqar,om)people thing they are prophetthey talk frm their *** intoday world i think bohra are close to 1 million every body love aqa maula yes they might courrpt amil itdose not mean all are courrpt.respected some body

S. Insaf
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#25

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:59 pm

It was late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb who on oath in Bombay High Court claimed that he had equivalent powers of the Prophet and Ilahul-Ard (God on earth). No Muslim or sensible person can make such claims. And no self-respecting person can tolerate him.

What I was trying to say that after every Prophet the Society again got corrupted and Allah had to send another Prophet to reform it.

The society gets corrupted because some persons exploit the masses for their own self interests and those who know this prefer to remain silent.
The fight for Badi (Wrong) and Naiki (Right) is a continuous process.

After just 30 years of the holy Prophet's death the Society in Arabia so got corrupted that his grandson had to sacrifice his life to reform it. Our present establishment has all the ingredients of which Umayyad establishment had. Such for the sack of absolute power and glory (Shan) Bani Umayyad converted a revolution in to monarchy.

SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#26

Unread post by SBM » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:50 pm

********************************************
every body love aqa maula
**********************************************

Mr. Dukkar (Dawat-e-lisan translation of Pig)
can you define in simple english the definition of every one.

Al Zulfiqar
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#27

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:00 pm

"i have never experienced any kind of pressure or force from my jamat or aamil. This is my personal experience. i am not lying..."

the above is a quote from TB (tuberculosis bacillus).

what a joyous and momentous occasion at finding the one bohra in the entire world who has not experienced any pressure or pain from our corrupt and tyrannical establishment.!! wow! this is as momentous as learning that the entire saudi reigning family has converted to bohraism and the saudi monarch has abdicated his throne to our sultan al bawasir, mohd burhanuddin!!!!!!!!

now there are only some scenario's where someone will not experience "pressure" or "pain of force":

- either TB is a highly trained US marine who has been mentally conditioned to withstand extreme forms of torture, humiliation and excruciating pain,
- or he has lost part of his frontal brain during a freak accident in childhood which has left him incapable of experiencing pain and has also made him insensitive to the agony and suffering of other fellow bohras and human beings,
- or he is, i'm more than 125% sure, a part of the rotten establishment himself, either as an amil, shezaada, or a salaried slave of the kothar who works behind the scenes, one who is a delighted partner in the haraam ni kamai,
- or the most plausible explanation; that years of brutal pounding, pummelling and hammering have left his rear aperture so torn and tattered and so widened that entire trucks can pass through and he will feel no 'pressure and pain' at all..!

as for my challenge to him to reveal his name and full identity has brought forth what? a typical bohri name like murtuza and a vague location... TB what do u think people here are, complete fools like you and the rest of yr fanatic haiwaans?!!

since you consider yrself so clever, why do u keep avoiding the issue of the syedna's mother and his fathers immorality and other serious crimes like murder? yr dismissive statement that maybe some 'jammat members' are corrupt shows that you are definitely an accessory to the serious crimes being committed by our last 2 syedna's, who have murdered their own family members, indulged in shooting animals for a pastime, have lied and cheated in court and have been severely reprimanded for the same, who seek worldly fame, ill-gotten wealth and titles, shamelessly living like parasitic maharaja's on the community's money and properties, who invest in secret accounts in companies and banks abroad, who utter laanats on all those who oppose them and train fools like u to do the same?

all that you and yr other kothari robots have is only one refrain, our moula is the greatest, you will all go to hell etc.

one of yr fellow suwwars here has claimed that someone who dies without a drop of honey in his bohri mouth and a ruku chitthi is going to hell. so according to ignorant fools like u, all the previous prophets, the shohoda of kerbala and the countless other muslims who died on the battlefields of arabia have all gone to hell???!

when you have no reply, do not resort to diverting the topic and calling names like 5 and 6 year olds, showing tongues and thenga's, instead turn around and bend over, as u all do 24/7 to yr amils and syedna... then atleast we will evaulate yr sorry a***'s and send you off gracefully with a few well-aimed kicks at yr backside.

pro_pig
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#28

Unread post by pro_pig » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:00 am

dukkar :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

like_minded
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Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#29

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:46 am

Originally posted by pro_pig:
like mimded,
u are right and i agree with u these (insaf,zulfiqar,om)people thing they are prophetthey talk frm their *** intoday world i think bohra are close to 1 million every body love aqa maula yes they might courrpt amil itdose not mean all are courrpt.respected some body
Brother pro-pig,

Why have you accepted the world like that?? Why dont you try and find out answers?

If you are coming here to learn (which I am sure, you are) then learn... dont pretend you are not learning (by calling us names(shaitan))Because even if you call us SHAITANS, that doesnt mean.. we are SHAITANS because we have never claimed to be prophets..

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

#30

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:16 am

Originally posted by makberi:
bro truebohra....
let suppose God forbid ur business suffers..ur finding it hard to make ends meet....ramadan is approaching....n everyone is asked to make their sabil and wajebaat payments....n unfortunately u cannot.....then wat shall happen....u will not be alloted a place in the masjid to pray.. u will not be issued a safai chithi to go for ziyaarat....it wud be as if ur not a bohri anymore.....u think this is justified
many bohris fear this n thus are "forced" to pay even if they r finding it hard on their pockets.....
In this situation, only REFORM must happen, Syedna is indirectly telling US (all bohras) please become a REFORMIST, Simply look at me, and become one, If you accept me, You are actually "out of your mind", If you accept me, then you are not ONE but TWO, and I am going to milk you nicely....till qayamat.