Friends,
I have always wonder about the present day Bohras and their behaviour. I have seen the peace-loving Bohras' most violent behaviour stopping burials and stoning dead bodies. Extreme hatred for the blood relations who were so dear to them once. Elderly Bohras bowing and pleading to Amils who are of the age of their grand sons etc. In this search I hit upon this definition, which I am sure most of you must have seen.
Are we then reduced to a cult from the great religion of Islam?
Psychological definition of Cult - As per Wikipedia
Studies of the psychological aspects of cults focus on the individual person, and factors relating to the choice to become involved as well as the subsequent effects on individuals.
Under one view, an important factor is coercive persuasion which suppresses the ability of people to reason, think critically, and make choices in their own best interest.
Studies of religious, political, and other cults have identified a number of key steps in this type of coercive persuasion:[27]
1. People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;
2. Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
3. They get a new identity based on the group;
4. They are subject to entrapment and their access to information is severely controlled.[28]
[edit] B.I.T.E.
Steven Alan Hassan, former member of the Unification chruch, and now an exit counselor and mental health counselor, has developed his own model, the BITE Model, to determine how destructive mind control can be understood in terms of four basic components, which form the acronym BITE:
1. Behavior Control
2. Information Control
3. Thought Control
4. Emotional Control
It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to one leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mind controlled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.[29]
[edit] Definition of 'cult' according to secular opposition
Secular cult opponents tend to define a "cult" as a group that tends to manipulate, exploit, and control its members. Specific factors in cult behavior are said to include manipulative and authoritarian mind control over members, communal and totalistic organization, aggressive proselytizing, systematic programs of indoctrination, and perpetuation in middle-class communities.[30]
While acknowledging the issue of multiple definitions of "cult",[31] Michael Langone states that "Cults are groups that often exploit members psychologically and/or financially, typically by making members comply with leadership's demands through certain types of psychological manipulation, popularly called mind control, and through the inculcation of deep-seated anxious dependency on the group and its leaders."[32] A similar definition is given by Louis Jolyon West:
"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to one person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." [33]
Please discuss the issue and do not fall pray to those who want to drag the subject in some other direction, as it hurts them.
Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
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Muslim First
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Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Br. Porus
AS
Is Br. Insaf Bigot?
.
AS
Is Br. Insaf Bigot?
.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
No, Muslim First. You are the Bigot.Originally posted by Muslim First:
Br. Porus
AS
Is Br. Insaf Bigot?
.
Recent transformation of Bohras into a Dai-worshipping cult does not represent the 'teaching' of their religion. Hence the existence of this website and widespread attempt to resist cultish practices.
Taawil is rooted in revelation. Allah says there is taawil in Quran. Did Leonardo Da Vinci say there is taawil in my paintings?
Go to sleep, you Bigot and take your fellow Bigot with you.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
S. Insafbhai is right even i have seen bohras bowing and pleading to Amils.they will even black mail you because of their pride.if they chance the amil suck your blood like dracula.(if you know whant i mean).
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Allah also talks about the darkness in the hearts of those that go after this taawil. Dark like a burned barbecue (taawil).
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Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
is there any doubt that taheris are a cult?
that is exactly what taher saifuddin intended and subsequently his son and family have progressed (or regressed) further in that direction.
what else can explain the total submission of taheris to any nonsense dished out by the kothar, loot, abuse and anti-islamic practices? highly educated taheris also seem to act like zombies and no matter how much you try to reason with them, they will eventually take refuge in only one argument, 'ye to khuda na dai che, ane hu ene aankh bandh kareene manu chu'. end of story.
when a person wants willingly to be blind, what light will you show him? if he/she is determined to resist at any cost, then there is no argument powerful enough to shake them. something very similar to the 'stockholm syndrome'.
members of a cult usually display symptoms of mass hypnosis, they act, behave and dress in an identical fashion and the cult leader will almost always exploit their sense of isolation by inculcating in them a 'siege mentality', further cementing his position as their redeemer and saviour and tightening his grip more strongly, conjuring up bogies of secret and sinister enemy forces out to destroy them and their way of life, invoking curses on them and drumming up scares and imaginary threats from some devils out to obliterate their existence...
these are clasic ploys of any megalomaniac who wants to run a scam on a vast scale. fascism, nazism, the hindu under siege philosophy of the RSS, the jihadists, the extremist al qaeda logic all bank upon precisely this sentiment. they all exhibit the classic 'frog-in-the-well' mentality, arm themselves to the teeth and are ready to sacrifice their lives to uphold their mistaken beliefs.
this syedna and his nefarious family have used all the tricks in the book and utilised all the above tactics to enrich themselves and in doing so have reduced an otherwise intelligent and rational community, to utter fools and brainwashed idiots pushing them into a state of mental retardation or paralysis.
that is exactly what taher saifuddin intended and subsequently his son and family have progressed (or regressed) further in that direction.
what else can explain the total submission of taheris to any nonsense dished out by the kothar, loot, abuse and anti-islamic practices? highly educated taheris also seem to act like zombies and no matter how much you try to reason with them, they will eventually take refuge in only one argument, 'ye to khuda na dai che, ane hu ene aankh bandh kareene manu chu'. end of story.
when a person wants willingly to be blind, what light will you show him? if he/she is determined to resist at any cost, then there is no argument powerful enough to shake them. something very similar to the 'stockholm syndrome'.
members of a cult usually display symptoms of mass hypnosis, they act, behave and dress in an identical fashion and the cult leader will almost always exploit their sense of isolation by inculcating in them a 'siege mentality', further cementing his position as their redeemer and saviour and tightening his grip more strongly, conjuring up bogies of secret and sinister enemy forces out to destroy them and their way of life, invoking curses on them and drumming up scares and imaginary threats from some devils out to obliterate their existence...
these are clasic ploys of any megalomaniac who wants to run a scam on a vast scale. fascism, nazism, the hindu under siege philosophy of the RSS, the jihadists, the extremist al qaeda logic all bank upon precisely this sentiment. they all exhibit the classic 'frog-in-the-well' mentality, arm themselves to the teeth and are ready to sacrifice their lives to uphold their mistaken beliefs.
this syedna and his nefarious family have used all the tricks in the book and utilised all the above tactics to enrich themselves and in doing so have reduced an otherwise intelligent and rational community, to utter fools and brainwashed idiots pushing them into a state of mental retardation or paralysis.
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Muslim First
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Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Br Porus
AS
Br. Isaaf;
I know you are not Bigot.
Wasalaam
.
AS
I just love to get you going. I hope IA, I will meet you one day.No, Muslim First. You are the Bigot.
Br. Isaaf;
I know you are not Bigot.
Wasalaam
.
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Muslim First
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Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Don't you think its roots are in Imam worshipping Shias?Recent transformation of Bohras into a Dai-worshipping cult does not represent the 'teaching' of their religion.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Totally agree with the above. In addition, it is a paranoia with self-delusional esteem where logic, reason and truth are plots of subordinated epics. Religion and all its ghastly divisions (sects) fall under the same name (CULT).Originally posted by S. Insaf:
"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to one person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." [33]
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Adding to the above, the word "worship" is a sickly distressed call emotionally imbibed in a cult.
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Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
bro porus,Originally posted by porus:
No, Muslim First. You are the Bigot.Originally posted by Muslim First:
Br. Porus
AS
Is Br. Insaf Bigot?
.
Recent transformation of Bohras into a Dai-worshipping cult does not represent the 'teaching' of their religion. Hence the existence of this website and widespread attempt to resist cultish practices.
Taawil is rooted in revelation. Allah says there is taawil in Quran. Did Leonardo Da Vinci say there is taawil in my paintings?
Go to sleep, you Bigot and take your fellow Bigot with you.
just reminding you of Saifuddinbhai's note:
""Please discuss the issue and do not fall pray to those who want to drag the subject in some other direction, as it hurts them.""
you are senior enough to know the deliberate baiting games that some people play out here. just ignore them, no matter how much you feel tempted to give a jaw breaking rejoinder. its not worth it.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
[quote]Originally posted by S. Insaf:
I have seen the peace-loving Bohras' most violent behaviour stopping burials and stoning dead bodies./QUOTE]Bhai Insaf, I've never come across or even heard of Bohras stoning dead bodies.
I have seen the peace-loving Bohras' most violent behaviour stopping burials and stoning dead bodies./QUOTE]Bhai Insaf, I've never come across or even heard of Bohras stoning dead bodies.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Bhai Insaf, I've never come across or even heard of Bohras stoning dead bodies.Originally posted by S. Insaf:
I have seen the peace-loving Bohras' most violent behaviour stopping burials and stoning dead bodies.
[/QB][/QUOTE]Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Bhai Insaf, I've never come across or even heard of Bohras stoning dead bodies.Originally posted by S. Insaf:
[qb]I have seen the peace-loving Bohras' most violent behaviour stopping burials and stoning dead bodies.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Behavior control, thought control and alteration, etc. all are hallmarks of cults. I agree with Danish here that religions are in essence a cult. Insaf Bhai you raise a very valid point - that this Taheri culture of so-called Shia Muslims is a cult.
It's really a shame - there are so many bright minds in their community - so many people who have been suppressed, repressed, kept from true information, and continually pushed towards mediocrity.
Quite some years ago for Lailat Al Qadar, I had a saaya/kurta made that didn't sport the traditional Nehru collar, but had a round kurta collar and matching round saaya collar. This created an uproar in my family and my parents' friends. (I wore it nonetheless)
The slightest deviation from the norm is quickly suppressed - yet Burhan and his family have carte blanche to do anything that they'd like.
The majority of Bohris I've met really secretly hate the way that they're treated, yet they've been so conditioned to never question and blindly follow, that they just go along without any objection.
I've also seen a great deal of rage and hatred in these people - which is not surprising, because all that pent up frustration and anger channels itself somewhere and they express it in non-healthy ways. Child abuse, wife abuse, infidelity, stealing, lying, countless suffering failed marriages,etc. these are all rampant and probably occurring at a higher rate than I would guess.
The only message that they receive is that Aqa Moula is the greatest, most wonderful creation on earth, and only he has the answers and the true way. Classic cult garbage.
Many years ago when the Mumbai masjid, Moazzam was inaugurated, Salman Bhaisaheb Rashid, then Aamil of Sanaa or Hutaib, posted an invite on Malumaat that claimed people should come to the event to witness the zuhoor of Imaam Al Zamaan. So now Burhan becomes the hidden Imam, too.
He is your mother, your father, owner of all of your wealth, your money, your masjids, your life, and you should give him faakhir salaams.
This drivel is hammered into brains from the time one can talk and write.
Clearly this type of message is designed to prevent people from critical thinking and independent behavior.
I was in Cairo once while Burhan was there and i wore the traditional ghalabeiya to masjid. The local Aamil at Jame Anwar admonished me for wearing it and told me to change my clothes. When I protested that Aqa Mould had been photographed wearing the exact same type of clothing, he said;
"tame maara saathe hujjat naa karo". And that was the end of his discussion. Any individuality must be repressed because the cult leader will lose his power, position, money, and eventually the whole cult.
It's really quite the shame.
It's really a shame - there are so many bright minds in their community - so many people who have been suppressed, repressed, kept from true information, and continually pushed towards mediocrity.
Quite some years ago for Lailat Al Qadar, I had a saaya/kurta made that didn't sport the traditional Nehru collar, but had a round kurta collar and matching round saaya collar. This created an uproar in my family and my parents' friends. (I wore it nonetheless)
The slightest deviation from the norm is quickly suppressed - yet Burhan and his family have carte blanche to do anything that they'd like.
The majority of Bohris I've met really secretly hate the way that they're treated, yet they've been so conditioned to never question and blindly follow, that they just go along without any objection.
I've also seen a great deal of rage and hatred in these people - which is not surprising, because all that pent up frustration and anger channels itself somewhere and they express it in non-healthy ways. Child abuse, wife abuse, infidelity, stealing, lying, countless suffering failed marriages,etc. these are all rampant and probably occurring at a higher rate than I would guess.
The only message that they receive is that Aqa Moula is the greatest, most wonderful creation on earth, and only he has the answers and the true way. Classic cult garbage.
Many years ago when the Mumbai masjid, Moazzam was inaugurated, Salman Bhaisaheb Rashid, then Aamil of Sanaa or Hutaib, posted an invite on Malumaat that claimed people should come to the event to witness the zuhoor of Imaam Al Zamaan. So now Burhan becomes the hidden Imam, too.
He is your mother, your father, owner of all of your wealth, your money, your masjids, your life, and you should give him faakhir salaams.
This drivel is hammered into brains from the time one can talk and write.
Clearly this type of message is designed to prevent people from critical thinking and independent behavior.
I was in Cairo once while Burhan was there and i wore the traditional ghalabeiya to masjid. The local Aamil at Jame Anwar admonished me for wearing it and told me to change my clothes. When I protested that Aqa Mould had been photographed wearing the exact same type of clothing, he said;
"tame maara saathe hujjat naa karo". And that was the end of his discussion. Any individuality must be repressed because the cult leader will lose his power, position, money, and eventually the whole cult.
It's really quite the shame.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Brother Danish,
In 1965 when mother-in-law of reformist leader Noman Contractor died he decided to bury her in usual Dawoodi Bohra cemetery in Khar Bombay. I had just joined the reform movement then and I had joined the funeral procession. And then one Youth member Mohsin Gheewala died in 1975 and a young couple from Udaipur died. I was part of the funeral procession in all these cases. On each these occasion more than 10 thousand Bohras led by prominent Shiyat-e-Ali members were sent to the respective Bohra cemeteries to stop burial. I have seen with my own eyes persons like Shaikh Saifuddin Khorakiwala, Zainuddin Motorwala and Dr. Qasim Diwanji stoning the dead bodies in the presence of police personnels.
After their photographs published in the newspaper and condemnation by large number of people in English media, the opposition to burial slowly reduced and then died down.
In 1965 when mother-in-law of reformist leader Noman Contractor died he decided to bury her in usual Dawoodi Bohra cemetery in Khar Bombay. I had just joined the reform movement then and I had joined the funeral procession. And then one Youth member Mohsin Gheewala died in 1975 and a young couple from Udaipur died. I was part of the funeral procession in all these cases. On each these occasion more than 10 thousand Bohras led by prominent Shiyat-e-Ali members were sent to the respective Bohra cemeteries to stop burial. I have seen with my own eyes persons like Shaikh Saifuddin Khorakiwala, Zainuddin Motorwala and Dr. Qasim Diwanji stoning the dead bodies in the presence of police personnels.
After their photographs published in the newspaper and condemnation by large number of people in English media, the opposition to burial slowly reduced and then died down.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
That incident may have happened a very long time ago, brother Insaf. I was just a baby back then. But I would substantiate the notion that even today's brainwashed mainstream Bohras (given their extreme adoration and reverance for an unrealistic and corrupt idol), would most likely stone the dead bodies of certain reformists of their own kin if chance prevailed as they rlentlessly proclaim laanats in vengeance. They dare do that with any non-Bohras and that's the pity, else they would hypocritically fall prey to ma'azarats (apologies).
At this juncture, I'd like to get yours and others logical reasoning towards formation of any "cult" (or religion per se) as a necessary or mandatory rule of survival?
At this juncture, I'd like to get yours and others logical reasoning towards formation of any "cult" (or religion per se) as a necessary or mandatory rule of survival?
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
@ Al Zulfiqar
when a person wants willingly to be blind, what light will you show him?
You can wake up somebody who is sleeping, but you can't wake up somebody who is pretending to be asleep.
when a person wants willingly to be blind, what light will you show him?
You can wake up somebody who is sleeping, but you can't wake up somebody who is pretending to be asleep.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Whenever I see a school of fish,swarm of insect or the birds all flying together leads me to believe the human mentality is also similar.People like to be lead,we have this slave mentality.
Most Dawoodies know the leaders of the cult are dispicable thieves yet still refusing to get out.Maybe safety in numbers.
People get comfortable in awkward
situations.Then making change becomes more difficult.
If you truely love your children,dont make your kids suffer the same as you and your parents have in the past.Have balls,break free.Live strong.
Most Dawoodies know the leaders of the cult are dispicable thieves yet still refusing to get out.Maybe safety in numbers.
People get comfortable in awkward
situations.Then making change becomes more difficult.
If you truely love your children,dont make your kids suffer the same as you and your parents have in the past.Have balls,break free.Live strong.
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Muslim First
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Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Br. SeekerHave balls,break free.Live strong.
AS
Can you post your example.
Break Free: How you have done it?
What is your social life after breaking free?
How about family life?
How about religion?
Wasalaam
.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
@ Muslim First
Can you post your example.
Break Free: How you have done it?
What is your social life after breaking free?
How about family life?
How about religion?
These are my answers:
Break free: Start by breaking the mental bonds which bind you in slavery, rest will follow.
Social life: Bohras constitute 0.002% of the world's population. The rest of the world's population is 99.98%. Get a life!
Family life: Usually there are some black sheep in the family, they will consider slavery thicker than blood. Ignore them. They are losers anyway.
Religion: It is between you and your makers. No religion requires you to go through their sole selling agents
Can you post your example.
Break Free: How you have done it?
What is your social life after breaking free?
How about family life?
How about religion?
These are my answers:
Break free: Start by breaking the mental bonds which bind you in slavery, rest will follow.
Social life: Bohras constitute 0.002% of the world's population. The rest of the world's population is 99.98%. Get a life!
Family life: Usually there are some black sheep in the family, they will consider slavery thicker than blood. Ignore them. They are losers anyway.
Religion: It is between you and your makers. No religion requires you to go through their sole selling agents
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Sorry for the amendment
Bohras are 0.02% not 0.002%
Bohras are 0.02% not 0.002%
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Muslim First
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Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Br. Samrt
Good and smart answers.
Wasallam and Jumma Mubarak
.
Good and smart answers.
Try and sell it to Bohras, Agakhanis and Shias for that matter. Even progressives are not ready to take away 'sole selling agency' from Mulla Burhnuddin.Religion: It is between you and your makers. No religion requires you to go through their sole selling agents
Wasallam and Jumma Mubarak
.
Re: Are we, Bohras reduced to cult ?
Mr Insaf & Compnay,
Are you also not promoting proggy cult. The sole aim & preaching of ur cult is hating the Dai. Your problem is reduced to Dai Hating. You are having a new Identity Progressive bohras. Your controlled information is always manuplate and show the negative side of dawoodi bohra practise.
Are you also not promoting proggy cult. The sole aim & preaching of ur cult is hating the Dai. Your problem is reduced to Dai Hating. You are having a new Identity Progressive bohras. Your controlled information is always manuplate and show the negative side of dawoodi bohra practise.