corruption

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#31

Unread post by makberi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:22 am

bro like minded no doubt there has been bloodshed.....but it was the Muslims who carried forward the spirit of free thinkin after the Greeks.....cities like Baghdad n Cairo were known as centres of knowledge.....during the Crusades Europe came to know of the development in the muslim world....n the knowledge was passed on to them .....this led to the European Renaissance which brought Europe out of the Dark Ages ...n finally we saw the industrial revolution.....which put the seed for development for the world as w know it today...if the muslims had kept the light of knowledge buring after the Greeks...the world today wud ahve been very different......yes there have been troubles....but that has only been becuz of vested interest of a few

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#32

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:42 am

Bro makberi

I am only trying to highlight the basic attitude of followers of Islam and their mentality.

Muslims on the whole get provoked for the silliest reason, be it anything, intolerance is at its peak, You burn Koran, and these guys are ready to burn half the world, thats what I mean., Religion should emphasize on quality of life which includes love, compassion and tolerance which with the help of proper education is achievable.

But unfortunately in the muslim world (followers of Islam) this basic education is absent. Instead there is more importance given to Koran, hadith etc etc, which has no meaning in todays world, and this is actually polluting the minds of the followers and the end result is for the world to see.

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#33

Unread post by makberi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:55 am

Bro likeminded....again a close minded approach towards Quran isnt appropriate....shunning the Quran away as being outdated wud only be a myopic approach to udnerstanding the true essence of Quran n the Hadith....the book was revolutionary in the times of the Prophet... n also has a lot to contribute in todays world....no doubt a rigid approach to Quran isnt appropriate either...n unfortunately many ppl still take the Quran n the Hadith too literally....the Quran is open to interpretation ...wat brings the concept of Ijtihad.....its not as if there is one clear cut way to cme closer to God.....u have to choose ur own way......The reason y God asked all angels to bow to Adam was becuz Man was unique being...as he cud think ......thats wat God wants us to do....to think n find our way.....

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#34

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:05 am

Bro makberi,

If Koran and Hadith is unable to deliver its true essence, then whats the point??

why does God need a book (Koran) to put his message across? Cant he do it in his creation itself?

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#35

Unread post by makberi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:11 am

If He imbibed the spirit of the Quran within Man himself....then there wudnt be any Good or Bad......He gave us the book so that we exercise our minds to decide our direction .....thus there are terrorists n ther are saints......or else there wudnt be any difference between angels and us

aftabm
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#36

Unread post by aftabm » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:42 am

I agree to your point likeminded......

To make the matter worse, its been said that there wouldn't be any further communication from almighty, since Prophet muhammed was declared to be the last prophet. There shant be any more messages from god.

Why is it so, why would god do so. Why he would not keep the communication alive and allow the changes to be made further. Or even if the messages are complete, wouldnt he want to redeliver if need be.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#37

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:53 am

Bro makberi

Man is born with a moral sense which enables him to differentiate between right and wrong. Without subjecting behaviour to a common standard of vice and virtue, social evolution is not possible. All societies did not practice universal standards of vice and virtue, yet it is well known that almost all communities knew what was good and bad. For exmample, mutual fidelity of consorts, speaking the truth,keeping promises, respecting family ties, helping the poor and weak,were considered signs of morality. Of course morality cannot be coded but its rules are well understood.

When Islamic morality is judged by universal standards, this Arabian religion fails to qualify as a friend and guide of humanity. In fact, it constitutes a major threat to the survival of human race.

Islam has become set of fundamentals which preach social segregation, hatred of Non-muslims and elimination of dissenters through dominance, death and destruction.

A Muslim naturally believes in Koranic verses, which determine his social outlook and he becomes a narrow-minded sectarian. This psychological approach is the fountain of fundamentalism.

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#38

Unread post by makberi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:17 am

Bro likeminded it that was the case u wudnt have cme across scientists like Ibn Sina ...n poets like Umar Khayyam from the Muslim world......Islam has a rich history but unfortunately a few have tainted its name.....i suggest that u further study islamic philosophy n i m sure u will realise its beauty.....

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#39

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:37 am

Originally posted by makberi:
Bro likeminded it that was the case u wudnt have cme across scientists like Ibn Sina ...n poets like Umar Khayyam from the Muslim world......Islam has a rich history but unfortunately a few have tainted its name.....i suggest that u further study islamic philosophy n i m sure u will realise its beauty.....
I surely agree and endorse its positives also, my views are based on personal observation, I may be wrong.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#40

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:28 pm

like_minded,

Muslims are dying not because of Islam. This is the conclusion of either those that want to kill muslims either for their land or their oil or those that don't have a clue about the realities of the world that we live in today and have no clue about the message of Islam.

Remember, you object every time an ayah of the quran is quoted. Why? Because porus and I debate? Imagine what would happen if I decide to remain hungry because the grocery stores are debating about who has better produce.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#41

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:37 pm

The reason you don't want to read the quran is not because Islam is violent, but because you don't want to follow the path of Islam. Maybe because you don't want to give up your worldly temptations, who knows. You want to be able to justify your disbelief by blaming it on "Islamic" violence on the day of judgment.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#42

Unread post by like_minded » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:39 am

Originally posted by anajmi:
like_minded,

Muslims are dying not because of Islam. This is the conclusion of either those that want to kill muslims either for their land or their oil or those that don't have a clue about the realities of the world that we live in today and have no clue about the message of Islam.

Remember, you object every time an ayah of the quran is quoted. Why? Because porus and I
debate? Imagine what would happen if I decide to remain hungry because the grocery stores are debating about who has better produce.
Muslims are killing, terrorizing, dying all because of Islam, If you deny that, then you are blind or pretending to be one.

Islam, If you ask me is not only impractical but also a weapon used by its followers to spread maximum terror and intolerance.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#43

Unread post by like_minded » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:51 am

Originally posted by anajmi:
The reason you don't want to read the quran is not because Islam is violent, but because you don't want to follow the path of Islam. Maybe because you don't want to give up your worldly temptations, who knows. You want to be able to justify your disbelief by blaming it on "Islamic" violence on the day of judgment.
How can a primitive book teach me how to live my life now?? And yes, worldly temptations are there, so what?? you cannot eliminate it, can you? If only you realize that everything you want, is already embedded in you, I am sure you will come out of confusion.

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#44

Unread post by makberi » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:35 am

One's moral ascendency cannot be determined on the basis of his knowledge n understanding of islam...cuz understanding islam is one thing...n making it a part of ur life is another.....also one cud very well be on the path of islam even without knowing much abt the Quran...its all depends on one's actions n let Allah be judge....so i wud suggest anajmi against jumping to such conclusions regarding likeminded....also likeminded unfortunately u r lookin at the wrong side of Islam.....hope u will realise that its not wat really Islam represnets

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#45

Unread post by like_minded » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:48 am

Bro makberi,

I try my level best to convince myself that I am wrong in regard with my views on Islam, but unfortunately I just cannot.

I mean.. on general basis, you look at the followers of Islam, there is so much "junoon" in them, intolerance and a false ego that their religion is the best, that they have the right to dominate, This is not theory or my imagination, but reality. You find them quoting ayahs from Koran for petty reasons or matters, Why?? just to prove Koran and Islam is the right way!! or the right path!! How can they be so sure???

I think Koran is a confusing book because the interpretations are so many!! How can it be a guide which shows the right path??

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#46

Unread post by makberi » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:04 am

The Koran cud not be put simply...its tryin to answers sme of the most complex questions facing mankind...how cud it be simple...lol...intolerance cmes frm poor education....while the Quraqn itself asks muslims to search for knowledge....many muslims unfortauntely ignore this n are not educated.....but islam dint preach intolerance....

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#47

Unread post by like_minded » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:35 am

Islam has nothing to offer in response to the pressing problems of the world, such as poverty, environmental degradation, overpopulation and war. Apart from environmental degradation, Islam is the major source of trouble today, It is major threat to the world peace. It does not even offer peace to Muslims among themselves, let alone to non-muslims.

In addition it is also a major source of over-population, as Muslims are relentlessly urged to procreate as rapidly as they can to outnumber the infidels of the world.

makberi
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#48

Unread post by makberi » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:57 am

Islam is one of the most socialist religions i believe with so much emphasis on the community good....the emphasis to eradicate poverty is well known...regarding family planning ...islam has neva been against it...as a matter of fact their are hadith which point out that the Prophet suggested it to sme ppl....there was on the other hand lotta emphasis to prevent female infanticide..pls read frm the following link...
http://muslim-canada.org/family.htm

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#49

Unread post by Alislam » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:06 am

It is a wrong notion generally that muslims keep on producing and do not practise family planning etc.,

The population of 50 odd muslim nations is equal to the hindu population of just one country ie., India.

It's all meida hype and vested interests try to create fear that muslim population is increasing, especially in India.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#50

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:42 pm

like_minded,
Islam, If you ask me is not only impractical but also a weapon used by its followers to spread maximum terror and intolerance.
Actually, Islam is impractical only for those who don't want to follow it. There is no impracticality for those who do. You will find millions who pray 5 times a day without any "practicality" issues. This is simply an excuse to run and hide.

As far as terror and intolerance is concerned, as I explained before, you are extremely shallow and hence will not understand the reality of the world we live in today. Besides, more people live in terror of Israel and America than Al-Qaeda. There is nothing wrong with Islam, only with you. Most of the world considers Bush a bigger terrorist than Osama. But as I said before, your worldly temptations are the cause of your blindness.

When you say Islam is the major source of trouble today, I simply shake my head in shame and sadness with the ignorance of the people around us today. The reason why we have these futile wars is because of people like you. If it hadn't been for people like you, the American regime wouldn'tve gotten the approval to go into Iraq and destroy that country and millions of lives.

As far as quoting ayahs is concerned, why do you have a problem with that? If a question is answered by the ayah of the quran, it should be used. I believe it should be used to answer the simplest of questions if one can. As the quran says, the shaitaan will do everything it can to prevent you from spreading the message of the quran. But you need to hold on to the message firmly.

Zeal
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#51

Unread post by Zeal » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:12 pm

well said anajmi !

Like minded ,
If you do not believe Islam as a true religion of today, according to you what is the right source?

Do you think Ravi Shanker created this universe, such a beautiful system , according to you who governs the rules of nature, who gives life and death to humans, animals, plants?

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#52

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:43 am

like_minded

This is an example of how Islam becomes a cause of terror.

U.S. Warns Of Stronger Al-Qaeda

And then the next day

Chertoff: Al-Qaeda not at pre-9/11 strength

And people like you lap this crap up. It's been 6 years since all this began. A log of wood would've figured it out by now.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#53

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:47 am

Olbermann: All hail the prophetic gut!

A good and funny read. You might want to get your gut checked out too, cause that's where I think you are getting your information from too.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#54

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:58 am

Mom says she, toddler kicked off plane

Damn Al-Qaeda and Islam for causing this.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#55

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:00 am

Al-Qaida works to plant U.S. operatives

Looks like the pant business in the USA is booming. Most like minded people are going to need a new pair of pants now.

Maqbool
Posts: 848
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#56

Unread post by Maqbool » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:50 am

Do we Muslim believe in one book Quran!

There are so many translations and every body has there true version of Quran. In some cases it is so extremely divided that one says it is west then the other points at east.

Those who are engaged in killing other human beings claim that this is our teaching and we are doing for Islam.

Have any one given a thought that in spite of having plenty of natural resources Muslim countries have, why they are dictated or ruled by western countries!

Why we are hesitating to accept that this all is because we are divided. From the holy book to our teaching of Islam is divided.

I have come across E Book “Arab Conspiracies against Islam” by Aidid Safar. In this book he says that kissing a stone Hazar e Aswad is worshiping. To face a stone masjid Kaba at the time of praying is also worshiping. The Islam prohibits worshiping and knowing this very well we practice the rituals. I am sure there will be thousand of hadis to counter this belief, but at first place we fails to understand why this paradox.

I think that the book I am referring has some valid points and is on rational thinking. This book will prove that what Like minded says has some truth.

I got this book from a friend, has about 200 pages. He has taken printouts from the pdf file and distributed among the friends. This can be downloaded free from the net. I do not have the exact address.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#57

Unread post by like_minded » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:09 am

Originally posted by Zeal:
well said anajmi !

Like minded ,
If you do not believe Islam as a true religion of today, according to you what is the right source?

Do you think Ravi Shanker created this universe, such a beautiful system , according to you who governs the rules of nature, who gives life and death to humans, animals, plants?
Zeal,

I do not believe in intolerance, violence, fanaticism, discrimination of sex, superiority complex, etc etc, and all this is highlighted and glorified in Islam.

I don't think Sri Sri Ravishankar created this universe, that was a foolish statement by you, The creator and created is ONE, only if you understand this phenomenom, and for that you need to look inside yourself.

Zeal
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#58

Unread post by Zeal » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:21 am

Like minded,

Creater and created is one - excellent statement!

You think Islam is glorifying all wrong things , then who is this one creater?

I dont understand this phenomenon brother , so please explain it to me ,and please spare me of looking inside!

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: corruption

#59

Unread post by like_minded » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:00 am

Originally posted by Zeal:
Like minded,

Creater and created is one - excellent statement!

You think Islam is glorifying all wrong things , then who is this one creater?

I dont understand this phenomenon brother , so please explain it to me ,and please spare me of looking inside!
I already answered your question in my last post, whats the point repeating it again??

Creator and Created is ONE, what we worship is manifestation of mind, seek the unmanifestated, the source and you will co-exist, stop being identified by your mind and dwell on the self.

Zeal
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:01 am

Re: corruption

#60

Unread post by Zeal » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:23 pm

Understood Like_minded,

All the best to you and Sri Ravishanker...