Punnishment fit the crime

[anajmi]

Aareef,

So you have seen Osama saying Bismillah, now, have you seen him killing an innocent?

How is it that they do not understand these basic facts about Islam.

I am not sure if you have understood the basic facts about Islam either. Are you questioning God's justice? or are you questioning the prophet's hadith?

There is nothing you or I can do about people who kill innocents in the name of religion. Some choose to blame these acts on religion, like you have.

[anajmi]

Also, there is no oil in Afganishtan..

Thanks. I didn't know that. Well, that makes it ok, I guess. As long as they attack one country that doesn't have oil, they can attack others that do!!

[Aarif]

Anajmi

When I ask you questions on Islam you take them personally. But when I point out the loopholes in the intrepretation that others use to get away with everything in the name of religion you get upset and blame it on them. This is a discussion and one needs to discuss all the possibilities. And I am exactly doing that. Now that does not make me less of a believer or a lesser muslim in anyway. Everyone except you in this world knows that Osama prays five times a day, Al-Qaida strictly follows Quran and Hadith etc. Maybe you are the only one who does not know that. And how did you come to the conclusion that Osama does not say Bismillah. I have spend a year in middle east. Arabs use the name of allah in every sentence. Osama is an arab originally from Saudi Arabia, the most strictly Islam following country in the world. And you are asking me that does Osama say Bismillah???

Now going back to my question.. In your post you mentioned that if one says Bismillah he earns 10 good deeds etc. But you conveniently forgot to mention who these people can be. My Question is does Osama fall in that category. He also calls himself a true believer.. And he is not the only one.. There are tons of arseholes like him who call themselves believers...

Thanks. I didn't know that.

You are welcome.. But next time remember this...

Well, that makes it ok, I guess. As long as they attack one country that doesn't have oil, they can attack others that do!!

I seriously hope and pray that allah does not follow this logic while allocating plots in Jannat. Just imagine if he does than those who do bad deeds will go to hell and those who don't will still end up in hell because they don't do any bad deeds

[Aarif]

he earns 10 good deeds

Sorry its 190..

[anajmi]

In your post you mentioned that if one says Bismillah he earns 10 good deeds etc. But you conveniently forgot to mention who these people can be.

conveniently forgot to mention who these people can be.

That sentence made me smile. Either I didn't realize I had this knowledge, or you give me too much credit. Fortunately, I have realized that it doesn't matter if Osama gets his reward or not, I just need to make sure that I get mine.

I have read reports that he's been dead since 2001. The Americans use the boogeyman to scare people into allowing them to carry on their imperialism.

There are tons of arseholes like him who call themselves believers...

Yeah, I know a few of them. .... Now watch the Ismaili jump on this and talk about his favourite pedophile Mullah. Just so you know, I wasn't talking about him.

I seriously hope .... bad deeds

I was being sarcastic. You might want to look it up. Besides, I didn't understand your analogy.

Now back to the discussion at hand. Are you suggesting that since terrorists say Bismillah and prays 5 times a day, Allah should stop rewarding everyone for these acts? or just the terrorists? If it is the latter, then you should go back and read one of my previous posts which tells you that let Allah decide who is worthy of his reward from amongst those who profess believe in him. I am sure HE will do a better job than you or I.

[Thai]

In case anyone is interested, regarding my post about two heavens---it is mentioned in Surah 56. verse 7 mentions that people will be divided into 3 classes---those going to hell, those going to heaven and those who are righteous and will be close to Allah.

[Thai]

There are many theories about 9/11, but one of the things that resulted was that Islam and muslims were put under scrutiny. This has led to a lot of "rethink" about Islam by muslims themselves. Certainly, it made ME take a 2nd look at the Islam I was practicing.

There is an interesting verse in the Quran---Surah 22 verse 40

"(There are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,--(for no cause)except that they say, "Our Lord is Allah". Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause)---for surely Allah is full of strength, exalted in might, (able to enforce his will)

any comments?

[Aarif]

conveniently forgot to mention who these people can be.

Either I didn't realize I had this knowledge, or you give me too much credit.

Unfortunately it was neither of the two.. There is something called "Convenience" which people love to use. There is a nice saying in hindi "Navso chuhe maar ke billi hajj ko chali" I hope you got the drift. I always read and see around the globe that muslims take most of the things literally from scriptures in almost all the aspects of their life without putting in any further thought in to it... And above all they justify it using the religion.. And this was the main stimulus of my argument...

I seriously hope .... bad deeds
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I was being sarcastic.

So was I..

Are you suggesting that since terrorists say Bismillah and prays 5 times a day, Allah should stop rewarding everyone for these acts?

No I am not.. Honestly I am no one to suggest anything to anyone.. I would leave that to the prophets and allah.. However asking questions was never considered bad.. Since the companions of prophet (PBUH) asked questions we have his so called sunnah... And these questions are for discussions which lead to better understanding of the religion as a whole.. Atleast that is the MAIN reason why I bring forward these questions...

Fortunately, I have realized that it doesn't matter if Osama gets his reward or not, I just need to make sure that I get mine.

If that is the case than you should leave Ismailies alone rather than criticizing their Imam and calling them deviants.. By doing so you are debiting quite a few good deeds from your heavenly account... Its always better to go their as a millionaire with millions of good deeds in your account.

[anajmi]

What I realize is that you are posing these questions to argue, not to learn or clarify. Asking questions is ok, asking stupid questions will get appropriate responses.

And this was the main stimulus of my argument...

If that was the stimulus of your argument, you should be arguing with Osama. Otherwise you are simply arguing!!

So was I..

huh!!

Honestly I am no one to suggest anything to anyone

Good, then you shouldn't pose questions either.

And these questions are for discussions which lead to better understanding of the religion as a whole..

Not if you are not willing to learn or understand the answers given. There are now 10 responses after the first question was asked and answered. This isn't leading to a better understanding of anything.

Lastly, Osama is not an Ismaili, or is he?

And this is my last response to you on this subject. Your window for "understanding" is now closed.

[Aarif]

What I realize is that you are posing these questions to argue, not to learn or clarify. Asking questions is ok, asking stupid questions will get appropriate responses.

If you cannot provide sensible answers to someone's questions call him stupid. Right?? This is the best way to say that "Heads I win Tails you loose" If I can answer your question I am smart and you are an idiot. If I cannot than your questions are stupid.

If it is the latter, then you should go back and read one of my previous posts which tells you that let Allah decide who is worthy of his reward from amongst those who profess believe in him. I am sure HE will do a better job than you or I.

quote:
Honestly I am no one to suggest anything to anyone

Good, then you shouldn't pose questions either.

Going by your logic you should stop trying to answer questions on this forum on behalf of Islam and allah...

Not if you are not willing to learn or understand the answers given. There are now 10 responses after the first question was asked and answered. This isn't leading to a better understanding of anything.

That is because you have only one answer for all the 10 questions. You are a victim of self boredom.

Lastly, Osama is not an Ismaili, or is he?

You should really pray that he is not an Ismaili. Because he calls himself a true believer of Islam just LIKE you. If he is an Ismaili than what will that make you

And this is my last response to you on this subject. Your window for "understanding" is now closed.

It seems you have a lot of misconceptions about yourself. Who told you that if you will not reply to my posts my window for learning will be closed???

BTW: Thai has made an good attempt to lead the discussion in the positive direction. That is the way it should have gone..

[Safiuddin]

To Anajmi:

Safiuddin,

Being a doctor, you should be able to post smarter questions

You mistakenly assumed that I'm a physician. I've never claimed to be one - though i have been a health care professional for the last 16 years - just want to clarify this point.
Sorry to not address this sooner - but I've been sidetracked with my life.

[Africawala0000]

You should really pray that he is not an Ismaili. Because he calls himself a true believer of Islam just LIKE you. If he is an Ismaili than what will that make you

Brother Areef, care to explain this?

Africawala

[Africawala0000]

Plus, one needs to understand what the quran says. The reward for one good deed may be manifold, however, the punishment for a bad deed will be equivalent to that bad deed. If your bad deeds are so many that even after getting a manifold reward for your good deeds, they still aren't enough, then you deserve to burn in hell forever!!
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Potty mouth, have you really understood the Qur'an?

Using bad language is a bad deed and slandering somebody out of spite is Gunha Kabira. Does that mean you deserve to burn in hell forever?
It is not up to you to decide who is good or bad. That is Allah S.W.T.'s right. You just have to shut your filthy mouth and read Qur'an with a clear mind.

Fortunately, I have realized that it doesn't matter if Osama gets his reward or not, I just need to make sure that I get mine.

How are you going to make sure you get your reward? And what are your qualifications for that reward.

Speaking without thinking is a sin. to hate somebody is a sin. To pronounce judgement on somebody is a sin. Using bad language is a sin. To boast about a knowledge you do not possess is a sin. To read qur'an like a parrot and not understanding it is a sin. List is long. I agree with you, people who commit so many sins deserve to burn in Hell forever. You said, it, I did not.

[Aarif]

Brother Areef, care to explain this?

Africawala

Well it's a response to Anajmi who has mentioned about Osama in his post and I answered in context to that...

[Aarif]

So as far as you are concerned you can safely ignore it..