Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Talk about innovation in religion, this money-making fiasco was started just 10 years ago. For a mumin everyday should be a day of ibadat. This totally drains all the mumineen of their energies, finances, and valuable time from other meaningful activities. by the time his birthday comes everyone is so exhausted but happy and glad, they are not glad it is his birthday but because finally it is over. 40 darees , 7 muzakeras and keeping awake with little children till late at night and eating fattening food of jamat for 40 days is very exhausting. You can not observe dietary restrictions in jamans and on top of that you have no time to exercise, this is like a double edged sword.
Do these Amils and Bhaisabs think that his age will increase even by a minute with all this 40 days of praying when we are told that your life length is pre-determined and number breaths are pre-assigned. Then the financial drains comes from the fund-raisings that go on, every organization wants you to contribute $94 for their own function. if you belong to 4 or 5 (normal) committees you have to shell out that kind of money and this is in addition to couple of jamans you are required to host which can cost several hundereds. Can you even imagine the amount of financial drain these people are causing to the mumineens.
Yes, mumineen are happy and prosperous but they are a miserable lot as they have no money left or free time to go on vacations or attend any other friends function who are of different religion. In olden days we used to have muslim, hindu, christian, jew friends now I don't have any of these friends. I know only mumineen who I hang out with in these gatherings and they are always judging me to see if i fit into their definitions if ikhlas and khidmat or am I as good as they are (which never happens), and they are always sneakily finding out your opinions and reporting to the Amils and Bhaisabs to gain their favors for themselves or get me in trouble with them, this stops me from being honest and telling like what I really feel to these people and it depresses me as I am with them all the time.
Can you imagine the amount of prayes one million bohras are required to do, two rakat after every namaz with a long doa, darees after darees, many other doas to read, do jamans, if you speak publicly you to pray for his long life after every two or three sentences otherwise you are not a mukhlis person, inspite of all this it wouldn't lengthen his life any more than what is alloted for him by Almighty.
Why O Why ??????????????

Kaka ji,

What is the problem then, in moving out of such mess of affairs, of the jamaat.

Why hang out with jamaat, when you have realized that things are very bad ?

Ali has hit the nail on the head. Why stay in a community that makes you so miserable. When I decided to break off, things people said were a) what will happen when u die, where will you be buried ? Hello!!! Does the burial place of anyone has anything to do with his final rewards/punishment in the life hereafter.

b) your children "misak" will not be taken? So what !!!There are millions around us who have not even heared of misak and there lives are no different than ours

c) Most importantly, which community do you now belong??? How will your children get married. These are questions which only time can answer.

I left this bohra mess, because I was not happy in staying in a community whose beliefs I could not accept.

Regards

One is born a Bohra and dies a Bohra - regardless of whether one belongs to the institutionalized corrupt Community. Just because one does not pay the waajibaats or "stroke Kotharis's balls" does not mean that one ceases to be a Bohra. The Community is not an exclusive Club, subject to membership etc.- to meet theKothari's own selfish monetary and power ambitions. Nobody has a right to ask a Bohra to cease being a Bohra.

In the same vein, one is born a Muslim and dies a Muslim, regardless of whether one belongs to an institutionalized Shia or Sunni sect or being branded a kaafir by the oppressor clergies.

Again to stretch the comparison one notch further, one is born a human being and dies a human being, regardless of the Society branding the human being an atheist, an agnostic or sheytan/devil or an animal.

"One is born a Bohra and dies a Bohra"
"one is born a Muslim and dies a Muslim"

Do u mean to say that being a bohra or a muslim is not a matter of choice but of genes? (reminds me of the age old nature vs nurture debate)...what exactly bohraism mean for u?...for me its a set of beliefs, values and a particular lifestyle...I was born to bohra parents and followed all the islamic rituals to the point of performing haj...I namazed very punctually ....suddenly and inexplicably I walked out of Islam and quitted bohraism too....I guess when I stopped performing Namaz and Roza and everything Islamic, I ceased to be a muslim and when I stopped believing in the religious head and anything pertaining to bohraism I ceased to be a bohra....you cant let somebodies believes to be a victim of his birth....and by your own logic, nobody from another religion can convert to islam cuz he is not a born muslim...huh??

I do not agree to even this one:
"one is born a human being and dies a human being"...If I was to phrase this sentence I wud have used the word "homo sapien" instead of "human" (unless the connotation is purely biological) ....one is never born human but they become so by their deeds (if they choose to).

trying to be human
T

Re: your last point tahir, "I do not agree to even this one: 'one is born a human being and dies a human being'...If I was to phrase this sentence I wud have used the word 'homo sapien' instead of 'human' (unless the connotation is purely biological) ....one is never born human but they become so by their deeds (if they choose to). Trying to be human, T"

Objectively speaking, quite a profound point! As someone once pointed out to me, this is the thing even non-buddhists can learn from the buddha. Apparently he was all about human evolution rather than worship (the "images" of him came later & were not what he taught). Instead, he said our "biology" is supposed to be a platform for becoming a genuine "person"...someone who's enlightened enough to help heal the world.

Sounds to me like you're saying the same thing.

Go' Blamey! as a British cockney would say.

I was only trying to drive the point home that the Kotharis have no right to throw out a born Bohri out of the fold. They should not judge a person's faith or intentions. If one willingly wishes to leave the fold, it's OK too.

How did "homo-sapiens", "evolution" or Budha come in here, e'h!?

Talk about innovation in religion, this money-making fiasco was started just 10 years ago.

Kaka Akela,

Innovation is prevalent in Islam and started a lot longer than 10 years ago. Innovation is a relative term; relative to the times which makes following Hadiths innovative, as it is an attempt to introduce century old traditions into the current mainstream (being "new" to the mainstream).

I do agree that it is time to blow this Taco Stand if this is how you feel.

I did.......

Blow, figuratively not literally

(Simply a clarification which is unfortunately necessary in these times as Islam is Hijacked by Wahabis).

Br. Kaka Akela, AS

You might find following Hadith Useful

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by worshipping in the mornings, the nights." (See Fath-ul-Bari, Page 102, Vol 1).

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamental ... 01.002.038

Dear All who responded and advised, Thanks

Believe it or not I do like my religion of being a dawoodi bohra, its teachings and practices. The new money making innovations that I mentioned are all invented by the jamea graduates who present it to the shazadas and get the approval of the Dai. what has happened lately is that Jamea graduated Amils and ustads have started acting like " all knowing, bloated heads " . They all have seen how shahzadas act. And in their absence they all act like shahzadas with same demands. their 11 years in Jamea is so much more than a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon's 25-30 years of education that these jamea graduates have (or give) no respect to anyone else's accomplishments in life. They actually can not see beyond their noses. In 11 years all they have learned is how to demand big salaams and how to ask for more & more vazifas. I have no problem with the Dai to leave the religion, infact I am a devoted follower of him but I hate everyone who has surrounded him wrapping themself in the flags of khloos and khidmat and abusing the people, in my earlier posting I had reffered to them as" kiss-up and kick-down" types of people. I don't want to throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. Hopefully, someday all these matters will be cleared up and all these jamea intoxicated persons removed or banned from dealing with people, it would be a shame and great waste of good education.

"I have no problem with the Dai to leave the religion, infact I am a devoted follower of him but I hate everyone who has surrounded him wrapping themself in the flags of khloos and khidmat and abusing the people"

Shouldnt the much revered and supposedly spiritually powerful dai be able to see thru everyone who has surrounded him??....Isnt it obvious that he is one of them pretending to be different?

"I don't want to throw the baby out with the dirty bath water"

There is no baby...all is dirty water...throw it and liberate yourself....
Appa Dwipo Bhava (be a light unto yourself)

dear tahir and all,
i would remind those who charge the dai with the wrongs of the many...with an example of the Prophet. he too endure years with those (most from his own family) whoes only vested interest with islam and the prophet was either monetary or stature..of course the prophet endured for a greater good.

if you believe someone to be selfish..more than likely that person is...without it being a directive from above. there are amils who fight tooth and nail to keep their position..even if it means disobeying the orders of the dai..and then saying it was from the dai.

Dear Mr.Kaka Akela

You guys believe that all bad practices in our community is done without knowledge of Auqa Moula ..fine for a moment i agree with you on this point now as Kaka Akela claim that he is tired of these 40 DAYS of Ayaamul Taabutaat...Don't you think Auqa moula is well aware of it?Don't you think he himself should tell people not to waste your valuable 40 days in celebrating his Birthday....

Baniya no paiso mandi main ne Bohri no paiso handi main.We are wasting our time and money in JAMAN JAMAN N JAMAN.We are happy eating Faakhera jaman and thats all...thats our limit......

15 years back we had one hostel in Mumbai...that time i used to envy these jain guys who used to have as many as 10-15 Hostels in Mumbai...And now after 15 years we have not built a single hostel in Mumbai infact i don't know the fate of Burhani Hostel also.