The Final Revelation

Guest · #1

Dear Friends:The Prophet revealed TWO weighty things: The Quran and The Ahl e Bayt.The leader of the Ahl e Bayt is the Vicegerent of Allah and is the Imam.Please study the ahadith Thaqalayn, Ghadir e Khumm, and Ahl e Kisas carefully and you will see this.The Wilayet of Ali is the Perfection of Islam, and the Quran is the testimony of Allah to Humanity and the Ahl e Bayt which establishes this covenant in perpetuity.From the establishment or foundation given by the Quran, the Imam, the Amir an Nahl, Prince of Bees, is established to legislate whatever rule he deems necessary.The Quran is not a book of guidance except to establish the Ahl e Bayt as the Vicegerency of Allah and their manifestation of Allah's rule in an enlightened civilization.The two things, Quran and Ahl e Bayt are not separate, but constitute the two elements of Allah's plan for humanity.One is the contract, the Quran, it is the constitution.The second is the Ahl e Bayt with Imam as the head who can abrogate or add to the Quranic laws established to guide humanity towards perfection.Without the Ahl e Bayt the Islam is a headless corpse and the Quran a book of parables not understandable to the ordinary man.

Guest · #2

Brother Asif Khan,You wrote: "Without the Ahl e Bayt the Islam is a headless corpse and the Quran a book of parables not understandable to the ordinary man."I have seen many posts from you quoting ayahs from the quran the translation of which have been picked up from authors like pickthall and it seems to me that you seem to understand what the translations mean. Are you saying that you are an extraordinary man or that you do not understand what you have written!And if the Ahl e Bayt are the only people who can understand and teach the quran what are you doing quoting from pickthall who as far as I know is neither a Aga Khani nor is he an Ahl e Bayt. I may be wrong but I am hunting for the truth and the path has become more and more difficult with each passing imam and dai. Islam was supposed to be a simple religion and it was during the time of the prophet(peace be upon him) till the imams and dais introduced their own doctrines and here we are fighting amongst ourselves instead of fighting the enemies of islam.May be, just may be these imams really aren't who they claim to be. May be they are but since there is going to be no more revelation from Allah we need to find this out ourselves. I hope Allah guides us all.

Guest · #3

Be quiet Asif Khan.Once more, no one likes your attitude, there are people who are far more knowledgeable then you.

Guest · #4

Dear anajmi1) The quote says it all: "Without the Ahl e Bayt the Islam is a headless corpse and the Quran a book of parables not understandable to the ordinary man."You want proof, look around at the Muslim Nations and the people - the followers of Islam.And, then compare them to the Ismaili tariqa with their Imam e zamaan and "interpretations" that reflect current time and not the 7th century.If the Quran is "forever" then we have to use evolving interpretations - this is how Revelation can become forever. If you use the Quran "literally" then you'll be frozen in the 7th century and, forever.2) You mentioned about my using the Pickthall/Yusufali translations of the Quran. Which translations are you expecting me to use? We all share the same Quran but the difference is in the interpretations. 3) Is Islam a simple religion? The answer: Is Quran easy to understand.I find Quran rather contradictatory and consider it "dangerous" in hands of illiterates & ignorants.4) Re: Your comments about the Imam e Zamaan, I shall, insha Allah, post some excerpts that will assist in this regards. However, do reflect upon the glory of the Fatimid Caliphate.Ya Ali Madad !!

Guest · #5

Dear Asif Khan YAM Do not waste your arguments with these people they will never understand you becuase first they have no idea or relization what it is like to have an Imam. To be under guidance of a living Imam they do not have faintest experience. What do they have to fall back but the silient Quran know if you are going to argue with that then you will fall again in the trap they are in never able to see beyond that. What is Natiq Quran thay will never agree to it but if the silient quran is so important then the natiq is even more since we need it more then the silient one which was to be only understood with help of the Natiq Quran. It is like read in the dark without the noor or light ALlah has sent the Imams as the noor of Allah so that the blind can see but if they fail use the light then let them move around in the dark as one does, he knows that everything is there but he strechs out his hands to see with them so that he does not bang in to some thing but he definately will BANG in to them. May Allah help these poor blind people who though have been given sight but fail to use the light to see the Noor of Allah

Guest · #6

I would just like to say that Qur'an provides ethical and moral values as does any other system in the world. The only difference being that ours is provided by God, others by man. Drinking is as much banned today as in 7th century. Same goes for adultry, dishonesty, bribery etc. In fact, there was hardly any bribery in 7th century which has been covered in Shariah.As for interpretations, Qur'an requires one to apply logic and "Aql" as God calls it. Then Qur'an asks us to learn from examples, both early prophets and that of Muhammad(sm). Only if we would want to know what God is trying to say in Qur'an. Also, isolated verses cause only conclusion. It is better to look for verses and read in context and as one of the posters (Muslim) said, "Read widely and keep an open mind."Best, Musalmaan

Guest · #7

conclusion=confusion

Guest · #8

Ya Ali Madad Hassan,Thanks! I know and I find it increasingly interesting that they have this "burning" devotion about Islam!Ask them about "Spiritual Islam" and they will there is no such thing!Ask them about "Jihad" against kafirs and hundreds will line up and each will have their favourite accounts on how the kafirs should be "handled".Ask them: HOW ABOUT JIHAD AGAINST POVERTY, IGNORANCE & DISEASE and they will say - There is no such thing is Islam.Regards

Guest · #9

Brother Asif Khan"I find Quran rather contradictatory and consider it "dangerous" in hands of illiterates & ignorants."I see exactly what you mean!!This is how I look at the Quran. I want to know what God wanted to tell us, but since I am not half a Muslim I should be, I look at other people who have put in a lot of effort to try and explain to us what God wants to tell us in the Quran. I look at a translation - interpretation. There are things in the Quran which are absolutely clear and about that I hope you will agree with me although I do not expect you to. These things were valid in the 7th century and inshaallah will be valid even in the 70th century, if there is one. There are certain things I do not understand and I consider that to be the fault of my limited capability and seek Allah's help and guidance. And then there are others like you sir who will pretend to understand everything and then call it contradictory and "dangerous" in the hands of people like us ( I consider myself an illiterate and ignorant as far as religion is concerned).Obviously followers of Imams and Dais (by the way - I am a bohri) do not think it is possible to translate or interpret the Quran by anybody other than the Imams and Dais ( and know what the irony is - not one translation exists by an imam or a dai).Tell me something sir, if god did not want us to understand the quran in the form of a book why was one created? Probably for the Imam. The living Imam can change the religion as he pleases, where does he get the information to effect the change from?From God?? Is it in the form of wahi - cause as far as I know that door is closed. Does angel Gabriel bring the change?or has he been entitled by God to make changes to the interpretation as he wishes. If that is the case then we should havea) Quran - edition 1 Aga Khani version (As interpreted in the 7th century by the Living Imam of that time) b) Quran - edition 2 New Aga Khani version (As interpreted in the 21st century by the current Living Imam)And lo and behold Christianity and Islam will be united for ever.The best thing that happened to Islam was that Allah himself has taken the responsibility of preserving the sanctity of the Quran. Had it been in the hands of the likes of you, you would have expurgated whatever you considered contradictory and "dangerous" and would have left us with something similar to the current bible and the Torah and the need of another Prophet to correct us.

Guest · #10

Dear anajmi,You say: 1) "Obviously followers of Imams and Dais (by the way - I am a bohri) do not think it is possible to translate or interpret the Quran by anybody other than the Imams and Dais ( and know what the irony is - not one translation exists by an imam or a dai)."My dear Anajmi, Translations are not SAME as "Interpretations". So, look for scholars of Islam & Arabic to do translation of the Quran from Arabic to English and other languages. Imam and dais do not translate or change, they INTERPRET & GUIDE!2)The Imam & their dais "INTERPRET" the Quarn & sunnah of nabi & imams according to time & place. The Nizari Imam does that thru Firmans which becomes Ismaili shariah. >>> So, If you clam to be a bohri then this is the basic element common to both Nizaris & Bohra Ismailis, actually all shias.3)I said: "Quran can be a dangerous book in hands of ignorants and extremists. "One has to look at the internecine violence betweeen shia & sunni where both are using Quran to call the other kafirs and a kafir can be put to death if he/she doesn't re-cant or convert. Same is happening in your Islamic State of Afghanistan, Saudia, etcMuslim women & non muslims are being sodomised by muslim men and Quran being quoted to claim superior status against them.Quran also allows the taking of SLAVES as war booty. I bet you would like to have some slaves girls to cater to your whimsy. Equally it has become fashionable amongst muslims to call others' belief "SHIRK" and they will use Quran to do just that.If this is not "Dangerous" then what is?4) You say: "There are things in the Quran which are absolutely clear and about that I hope you will agree with me although I do not expect you to. These things were valid in the 7th century and inshaallah will be valid even in the 70th century"Dear Anajmi, The ISSUES discussed under point #3 are VERY CLEAR in the scripture as well. So, according to your logic those tenets are forever and should be upheld in this century. In that case quit calling Islam - A Complete Religion. In my opinion it becomes an INcomplete & Dangerous religion. That is why: Without the Ahl e Bayt the Islam is a headless corpse and the Quran a book of parables not understandable to the ordinary man.5) You say: "The living Imam can change the religion as he pleases, where does he get the information to effect the change from?"My good man,The authories of the Imam are clear in the Quran and hadiths and I shall post excerpts separately.>>Again, if you claim to be a bohri then you would know that the words of Imam are like the Quran and they must be obeyed.Let me guess in your dawa'h it is OKAY to lie, slander, cheat & kill becuase you are spreading the word of Allah & Islam. CORRECT!6) You say: "...or has he been entitled by God to make changes to the interpretation as he wishes. If that is the case then we should have a) Quran - edition 1 Aga Khani version (As interpreted in the 7th century by the Living Imam of that time) b) Quran - edition 2 New Aga Khani version (As interpreted in the 21st century by the current Living Imam)"My dear man, Again I guess your so-called dawa'h "ENtitles" you to misconstrue & lie. Pls carry on!The Imams & dais do not change Quran. They seek GUIDANCE from the Quran, Prophet's traditions and the traditions of their Ahle Bayt Imams and INTERPRET for the Time.>> Again, if you were a bohra you would understand this. And, yes we do have A Current Interpretations for the Present Time & Age embodied as "FIRMANS" that you have labelled as: "As interpreted in the 21st century by the current Living Imam)"We do not have new Quran. We all share the same Quran. The Revealation is Final: The Prophet revealed TWO weighty things: The Quran and The Ahl e Bayt.The leader of the Ahl e Bayt is the Vicegerent of Allah and is the Imam.Without the Ahl e Bayt the Islam is a headless corpse and the Quran a book of parables not understandable to the ordinary man.I wish you good luck.Truly, Asif Khan.Note to Hassan, Now I know what you mean. YAM

Guest · #11

Brother Asif Khan,I need to know how the Quran has been interpreted by the Imam. What is he asking us to do that is correct according to his Quranic interpretation but wrong according everyone else's. Please brother I need examples and let us not talk about slave girls cause you would like to have one just as much as I do and since I am not a hypocrite I will admit this fact. I will also admit to the fact that the Quran says it is better on your part to free a slave and hence if I have a slave girl won after a jihad I will free her too(doesn't seem too likely though).

Guest · #12

My good man anajmi,You say: "I need to know how the Quran has been interpreted by the Imam"Islam is a religion of Peace, Compassion & Tolerance. The Imam guides according to those tenets of Islam which is what the Prophet & the latter Imams ordered and carried out.What was good for the 7th century is not RELEVANT today! Obviously, you disagee and would wish the status quo to continue; and NO, I do do wish for slaves or inequity for women or non muslims, You do! Get Real!Sorry, the days of having 4 wives and being able to divorce at your whim and, turm them out without maintenance is GONE!!Sorry, you cannot have slaves as war booty, regardless. This, like the case of 4 wives, may have been relevant in 7th century when due to incessant battles there were many female victimes that needed to be looked after.Sorry, you cannot use the Holy Quran to do QATL (slaughter) of those who do not agree with your "unique" interpretations of Islam.Need I carry on.And pls do not DELUDE yourself by saying that all the other religions got polluted and that Islam has not been corrupted. One only has to read your books of Sahih Bukhari to note the extent of the corruption.

Guest · #13

Dear Asif Khan Ya Ali Madad May Allah help these poor blind people who though have been given sight but fail to use the light to see the Noor of Allah My dear do not waste your time with these people How would one ever know what is to be under guidence of an ALe bait the family of the Nabi SAW. With even with the Dai they are wondering about his power And when they will know the Sun "The Imam" They will then know what they had been missing But please do not do what you are doing ! BAYHAAS with the Jahiliyas They also never ever listen to their Dai His Wais are just ignored These are sleeping lot

Guest · #14

Brother Asif Khan and Brother HassanThis post is turning out to be quite amuzing. All I do is ask a simple question and I get everything but the answer and from the both of you. You keep saying that the Quran is final revelation but that whatever it revealed is now old and hence the Imam is credited with bring in new revelation like No more 4 wives, no more slave girls.Islam is a religion of Peace, Compassion & Tolerance. I agree with this 100%Why, pray tell me, did Hazrat Husein fight a war he knew he couldn't win? He could've easily surrendered and maintained peace and he could've been tolerant with the people who were interpreting Islam the way they wanted to.As Lincoln said - the best way to maintain peace is to be prepared for war. That is what Islam has told us 1400 years ago, but then it was 1400 years ago and so is not valid today. Sodomy was banned 1400 years ago but why should it be banned today. There's nothing wrong with it.Adultery is a part of life these days. Islam banned it 1400 years ago. Let's revoke that ban.Do you know how many girls Hazrat Hassan married and divorced during his life time? Find out. He couldn't keep them all cause Islam had restricted the maximum to 4.Islam doesn't say that you have to have 4 wives, it says you can. Islam doesn't say you have to take slaves as war booty. It says you can. Islam doesn't say you have to kill people that do not agree with you. The ayah that you may be referring to was released at the time of the Battle of badr where the kafirs had to be killed. It doesn't mean you shouldn't kill them today. You can if you have to, if they are causing harm to you or your religion.Everybody kills if they fear they may be harmed. Why do you think countries developed Nuclear bombs??I agree that Islam has been corrupted cause people started saying that it was getting old for the times.You keep referring to Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. Is it from what you have read about it in the media alone or have you been there? There is no war in Afghanistan since the Taleban took over. Send a woman out in the night loaded with Jewelry on the Streets of London where the living Imam lives and see what happens to her. Send the same woman out on the streets of Afghanistan ruled by Taleban and see if anything happens to her.Media has always been critical of the true islam cause Islam says cut the hands of the thief and kill the rapist. Check out the crime rate in the developed countries which move ahead with the times and then check out the Islamic countries which you say are still following rules written in the 7th century.Allah told the Prophet (pbuh) during the final Haj the this day we have perfected the religion of Islam unto you. May Allah forgive, but do you think that he was out of his mind when he said that? For us to realise this now that it was not perfect after all and that we have to change it with the changing times!!As bother Hassan rightly said but wrongly directedMay Allah help these poor blind people who though have been given sight but fail to use the light to see the Noor of Allah.

Guest · #15

ATTN: AnajmiTell me why did you lie about being a bohra when you are not.? What school of thought do you follow? I would guess that to be the wahabiyya . Now you're going to tell me there is no such thing. The wahabiyya are the DAJJALS that nabi (pbuh&hf) prophesied about. And that makes you a cyber-soldier of DAJJAL.You must have spent a lot of time in those madrasahs where they drain into your brain - 24 hours a day x daily that all shais, sufis, ismailis are kaffirs. What did the mullah promise you - Paradise with hundreds of houris for your sexual pleasure. Imagine idiots who want slaves, 4 wives, Qatl(Slaughter)in name of Allah - in this time & Age think that they are actually following a religion. It is extremist cult of Shaitan. Call yourselves whatever you want - proof is in the pudding.Asif Khan - the Kaffir

Guest · #16

Dear Asif Khan,I have been following this discussion for quite a while and as Anajmi said it is quite amusing. Let us set up a few rules. Let us be respectable in our discussions and not offend anyone, both participants and observers. And let us not use any defaming adjectives for each other.Everyone has different points of views, their own understanding of religion, based on their experiences, their knowledge, their reading and their brain. I am not a Shi'ite, not a Sunni, not a Wahabi, but a simple plain Muslim.The problem with most of us is simple, that we want to find Truth but do not know how to. If you say Imam gives his interpretation and no one else can interpret it, it goes contrary to many verses of Qu’ran which expounds to the contrary. It says Qur’an is direct, easy read, manifest and understandable for everyone. Indeed Qur’an is further clear on the fact that everyone should understand it and solve their problems accordingly. Now who do you propose I should listen to? A human being who says I cannot understand Qur’an, or God Himself, who wants me to understand and interpret it as a form of Iba’dat? And consider those Arabic speakers who understand Qur’an in Arabic whenever they offer their prayers and then Qur’an gives them more law than anything else. Should they ignore all that Qur’an says or should they understand and apply it as God says in the Qur’an?Regards, Musalmaan

Guest · #17

My dear mussalman.You say: " Everyone has different points of views, their own understanding of religion, based on their experiences, their knowledge, their reading and their brain"Let me ask you this: 1) Where were you with your soothing words when your idiots like anjami, qiyam, agahani ismaili, captain2104, agakhani ismaili willing to convert and etc. etc. were openly slandering Ismaili tariqa and their Imam ?2)You were quietly nodding approval, weren't you? Like I said it is OK for you guys to lie, cheat, slander, maim, kill , etc in the name of this “so-called dawa’h”? Dawa’h of Jahaliyyat!3)Tell me : Why are the people named above pretending to be Bohra & Nizari Ismaili?4)If this was not enough one of the above went to Nizari Ismaili site to preach his “assinine version” of Islam- claiming to be a Ismaili. Naujabillah!Listen, if you guys are unable to debate and when we ask questions you all run away - both here & at the Ismaili discussion forum then why bother copy & paste from slanderous websites?OR, better still come back and re-ask the same questions that were answered here in this very thread. If you wanna believe that all words in Quran are eternal and must be believed then SURE: - you must believe that Slavery is OK. - you must believe that 4 wives are OK; and, they may be discared at the whim and put outside the door without any support.Both these above tenets were MEANT for the 7th century when due to large numbers of orphans & widows from ongoing wars needed homes. They are NOT meant for all eternity. Similarly, your favourite tirade that Imam & Imammate is shirk can be attributed to your low level of consciousness or understanding. You end up by actually "telling what Allah can be or not be". NAUJABILLAH !! And, I guarantee you will do it again!Isn't this why the Buddah statues were destroyed and all the hindu & sikh temples along with massive population because some moron thought that Allah had dictated that they all "must be put to the sword/QATL".You all have made Islam into a "Dangerous Religion" .

Guest · #18

Ya Ali Madad May Allah help these poor blind people who though have been given sight but fail to use the light to see the Noor of Allah Asif these peaple do not know even what is noor of Allah They replied As bother Hassan rightly said but wrongly directedMay Allah help these poor blind people who though have been given sight but fail to use the light to see the Noor of Allah.

Guest · #19

TO: Asif KhanAsif, you said earlier that there are more than 300 differences in the Salaah of Sunni Muslims.Please prove this and keep in mind that there are only 4 madhabs (schools of thought) in Sunnism:Hanafi Hanbali Shafi MalikiThanks

Guest · #20

ATTN: MUSLIM MANGo speak to your alim/alims about the differences in the way each sunni sect says the salah. Better yet speak to a few and get substance not rhetoric.I stand by what I said that there are alomost 300 differences in the sala'h alone amongst the 4 sunni sects.As a footnote: It is useless to say salah, and do other pillars when your creed cannot justify that it is based on Peace, Compassion & Tolerance. Good Luck!

Guest · #21

Dear Asif,I'll say again, lets be respectable to each other. We have had many a discussions in the past on this message board and people have differed; but we try to look at the arguments and do not choose indecent words for each other. No one here is an idiot. Everyone is smart, they differ in knowledge, in their thinking or in their reasoning.No one is pretending to be something else than what he is. If I am a non-Shi'ite, I am openly saying so. Inside, I do not breed any hatred for Shi'ites, they are as much Muslims are I am. Nobody would call themself a Nizari Ismaili or Bohra and make an effort to "convert" people. Arguments are not judged by who presents them, arguments are judged on merit, and merit alone.I believe four wives are okay and I'll let you know why. Firstly, Qur'an does not say its compulsory and says that you are allowed four wives. Secondly, the wording of Qur'an is clear enough to say that generally one marriage is recommended. The reason why Islam has allowed this is because a female cannot marry to a Christian or a Jew male. In case of shortage of females, a Muslim male can marry outside Islam. In case of shortage of males, generally males will be encouraged to marry multiple times. And as for the fact if such problems can occur or not, Pakistan is the only country in the world where male to female ration has exceeded in favour of males recently, primarily because of the conditions and prevalent culture.As for slavery, it was very much prevalent in 7th century and yet at the same time freeing a slave was an expiation of many sins in Islam. Islam stresses a lot on the freedom of a human being and it is by virtue of this fact that prisoners of war in Islam are to be taken as slaves rather than being put behind bars. No body knows what happened to the prisoners of wars that Russia took in the second world war. Probably all of them were assassinated or died behind the bars. And those who were captured by India in 1971 even for six month came out psychologically handicapped to quite an extent.As for slavery in modern time, it is bad that Islam has not been rethought and worked upon. What I am about to propose is very much debatable and I would rather discourage ensuing a debate on this. All I am going to say is one of the ways how we can solve our problems.In seventh century when prisoners of war were taken, many of them served to educate Muslims students and do community works. By the same analogy, we might introduce a new system of "slave of the state" whereby a prisoner of war shall not be allowed to move out of the state for a prescribed time. During that time, he will obviously either join some service or produce business, in any case contributing to the economy. He would yet be a slave and the system better than that of imprisonment. Anyways, this is a topic on which much can be said, read, understood. I have not even looked into depth at this moment and I say this just to let you know that Islam is not primitive. In fact its still smarter than western or any modern systems, just that Muslims have betrayed their religion badly.The differences amongst the sects are not primarily on the principles of Islam. These are rather on the sources. Having answered your questions, I would want you to answers that I posed in my previous email. I am copying them here again."The problem with most of us is simple, that we want to find Truth but do not know how to. If you say Imam gives his interpretation and no one else can interpret it, it goes contrary to many verses of Qu’ran which expounds to the contrary. It says Qur’an is direct, easy read, manifest and understandable for everyone. Indeed Qur’an is further clear on the fact that everyone should understand it and solve their problems accordingly. Now who do you propose I should listen to? A human being who says I cannot understand Qur’an, or God Himself, who wants me to understand and interpret it as a form of Iba’dat? And consider those Arabic speakers who understand Qur’an in Arabic whenever they offer their prayers and then Qur’an gives them more law than anything else. Should they ignore all that Qur’an says or should they understand and apply it as God says in the Qur’an?"Your questions were based on your beliefs. My question is based on what God has said in his Book. I am more interested in knowing how God wants me to understand Islam at this moment. May be once I am decided with that, I can know the methodology of solving the slavery and four wives problems.Best Regards, Musalmaan

Guest · #22

ATTN: mussalmanYou say: 1) " It says Qur’an is direct, easy read, manifest and understandable for everyone. Indeed Qur’an is further clear on the fact that everyone should understand it and solve their problems accordingly. "Dear Sir, Imho - The Quran is neither manifest or understandable. Pls refer to the thread: UNDERSTANDING QURAN & ITS HIDDEN MEANINGS.2)You say "everyone should understand it and solve their problems accordingly."What you are saying is that all of Quran is for all ETERNITY and must be followed as it appears. Precisely the reason why I chose the Quranic injunctions re: SLAVES & 4 WIVES - which must then be forever and cannot be revised or changed. Similarly, the Quran has DIRECT verses re:kafirs or non-muslims and thus this injunction must be obeyed without question.I tried to explain that these and other injunctions are NOT ETERNAL but time-bound or were relevant for early times of Islam only.I notice that you seem to be suggesting some “minor tinkering” with the injunctions surrounding SLAVES & 4 WIVES but wish to keep the laws essentially intact, or (i)Have the 4 wives, Divorce her at your flimsy whim, kick her out without maintenance, beat her according to the Islamic way, etc. (ii) Have Slaves to breed with and trade. BY the way, I am sure you are aware that any suggestions of “tinkering” is considered Blasphememy under “Your Shariat” punishable by death. So, you see there is a loaded gun pointed at your head to follow Islam as was followed by the three Sunni Righteous Caliphs(Abu Bakr, Omer, Usman ra's). Any criticism or protest and you’ll be silenced.Now, you also know why I keep insisting that you prove that your creed is based on Peace, Compassion and Tolerance and knowing that you cannot - makes it a creed based on Violence & Intolerance.3) You say: "If you say Imam gives his interpretation and no one else can interpret it, it goes contrary to many verses of Qu’ran which expounds to the contrary."My good man, All Shais believe that Guidance did not end with Prophet’s passing(pbuh&hf) and that the Prophet nominated Hazrat Ali(as) and his progeny thru Bibi Fatima (as) to act as Guide & Interpret according to Time & Place (Pls read the main post of this thread).There has always been a progeny from the line of Hazrat Abraham(as) to act as Imam down to the Prophet Muhammed and it was no different after Prophet Muhammed - that line continued after him to the present Nizari Imam or H.H. The Aga Khan(salwat) who traces his lineage from Prophet Muhammed and beyond to Hazrat Abraham(as). Pls refer to threads: IMAM/IMAMATE/NOOR-e-ALLAH IN THE QURAN. THE HOUSE OF ABRAHAM. UNDERSTANDING QURAN & ITS HIDDEN MEANING. WILL THE REAL SHIAS PLS STAND UP!It’s all about Religious Authority in Islam. According to Shia Islam that authority rests with the Imam e Zaman and for Nizari that Imam e Zama’an is H.H. Imam Aga Khan(salwat). You may wish to pay special attention to the concept of Religious Authority under those threads that I referred you to and to subsequent posts on that subject matter or Religious Authority.NOTE: Since Sunni Islam does not have a Religious Authority even though Khalifa is a Fard(Compulsory) in Sunni Islam (For Shias this is their Imam). There is a hadith of the sunnis that more or less says: “If one dies without the bayyat of the Khalifa then he dies the death of Jahaliyyat”. Now you know why I call you all - Creed of Jahaliyyat.4) Finally, I reject you explanations on why certain "nicks" are pretending to be bohra or nizari ismaili when they are clearly neither. They are trouble makers and petty "idiots" .5) I also noted your lack of response to Why you chose to remain quiet when your co-religionists slander others' beliefs. This is tantamount to approval.Again, I wish you good luck.

Guest · #23

Dear Asif,Why I was quiet is a personal question and I do not know why you are so interested in it. In short, it would be defaming for you but before I interrupted the discussion was quite respectable. I joined in when I saw that remarks had become more personal than objective.As for where Qur'an requires us to be objective and says that Qur'an itself is manifest, clear and understandable, I have provided lots of references from Qur'an in another thread. You still have not answered my questions.Musalmaan

Guest · #24

Attn: MussalmanYou say: "You still have not answered my questions."Imho - the Quran is not Clear neither does it have all the answers. For answers - I referred you to the thread: UNDERSTANDING QURAN & ITS HIDDEN MEANING. This has ayas that says Quran is subject to interpretations and by whom! Could you post those ayas for me so I know that you have indeed read the thread.I also referred you to other threads that deals with the question of Religious Authority in Islam(Imam): THE HOUSE OF ABRAHAM. IMAM/IMAMATE/NOOR-e-ALLAH IN THE QURAN. WILL THE REAL SHIAS PLS STAND UP.For an intelligent person it would take some time to digest & think about the Quranic ayas in those threads that clearly attests to the need for: - Religious Authority and - that the Quran is subject to interpretation.I posted all that @11:34 am and here you 're back @12:18pm claiming that I haven't answered your question.May I suggest you re-visit my previous post and re-visit the threads that you 've been referred to. God has given you a brain, then use it. If you still feel that: i)4 wives is OK and they can be divorced at your fancy so that you may re-stock your harem; turn her out of the house without maintenance; beat her up in your "unique" shariah way. ii) Have Slaves as war boorty to breed with over & above the 4 wives. iii) Treat non-muslims as filthy kafirs to be put to the knife if they do not convert. iv)etc. the list is too bloody long;then, I guess we can agree to disagree: "To you - yours and, to me - mine."Again I reject your explanation about those idiots who pretend to be bohra & nizari on this site when they are neither.

Guest · #25

Then lets suspend this thread and continue in "Understanding Qur'an & its Hidden Meanings", because as far as I remember its my post which is the last in that thread. I believe I answered you on that thread before posting anything here.But let us not post anything on this thread now, so there is no confusion.Musalmaan

Guest · #26

Just for record, my last post on that thread was at 10:47.

Guest · #27

All the things yiu are saying are untrue.Show me in the Qur'an where it says that kaafirs must convert otherwise they must be killed?Show me where it says you HAVE TO HAVE 4 wives?Show me where it says you HAVE TO HAVE a slave?These are completely untrue.No wonder your Imaam comes to our masjids to pray and not your Jamaats.

Guest · #28

Brother Asif,I am sorry I couldn't reply during the weekend. I ask for forgiveness for getting back into this thread. I had to. I hope you can understand.You say that I lied about been a bohri. Now if I were to prove to you that I am a bohri will you accept that you have been wrong about everything else on this board. Too hard a condition for you to meet. So I will make life a little bit easier for you. I won't.My full name is Abbasi Najmi. My father's name is Safakat Najmi. My mother's name is Saeeda Najmi. My elder sister's name is Sakina Motiwala. My younger sister who is no more is Fatema Najmi. My brother in law's name is Mohammedi Motiwala. My niece and nephews are Zainab, Ebrahim and Hamza Motiwala. They are all settled in Baroda. As you keep saying, Need I go on??If you know what a bohri is you would recognize the names. Now I will leave this to the people following this board to decide who the idiot is.Regards,Abbasi Najmi

Guest · #29

Attn: anajmiI still say you are pretending to be a bohri ismaili based on what you write & profess on this website.Why not pick up from where we left off and maybe you can pick up where mussalman left off and answer the questions put to you both in this thread and the other thread: UNDERSTANDING QURAN & HIDDEN MEANINGS.Better yet why not run it by your ulemas & mullahs and whoever and then respond.Remember in the end TRUTH truimphs over falsehoods. Truth is silent and one has to seek out the truth; conversely, falsehoods is noisy and very pro-active. When cornered it - "falsehood" usually makes noise like you just did and mussalman did in the thread;UNDERSTANDING QURAN... and Muslim Man did in his copious posts mainly to divert attention and agakhani ismaili did in his idiocy and captain 2104 did likewise and etc.HERE'S THE EPITOME OF YOUR IDIOCY: You claim Islam is a message for all mankind ; yet, there is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in your practise that would justify this.You claim that Islam is a deen of Peace, Compassion & Tolerance; yet, there is nothing in your practise to justify this.So, what do you do? You slander the Ahle Bayt like the Yazids and post fairytales from wahabi-financed websites. If this doesn't make you "idiots" then what does?

Guest · #30

Brother Asif,I agree with you when you say ...Remember in the end TRUTH truimphs over falsehoods. Truth is silent and one has to seek out the truth; conversely, falsehoods is noisy and very pro-active.Here's something else that you say.. "HERE'S THE EPITOME OF YOUR IDIOCY: You claim Islam is a message for all mankind ; yet, there is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in your practise that would justify this."Please let me know what practices you follow that make it a message for all mankind."You claim that Islam is a deen of Peace, Compassion & Tolerance; yet, there is nothing in your practise to justify this."Please let me know what practices you follow that make it a deen of Peace, Compassion & Tolerance"So, what do you do? You slander the Ahle Bayt like the Yazids and post fairytales from wahabi-financed websites. If this doesn't make you "idiots" then what does? "Please let me know where in my post have I done whatever you said I have done in the paragraph above. "When cornered it - "falsehood" usually makes noise like you just did and mussalman did in the thread;UNDERSTANDING QURAN... and Muslim Man did in his copious posts mainly to divert attention and agakhani ismaili did in his idiocy and captain 2104 did likewise and etc."If you know what making noise means and I hope you do although I do not expect you to, go through this post again and find out who it is that has been making noise. Two of the most knowledgeable persons on this board are Musalmaam and Muslim. Others normally cannot defend their arguments against these guys and so they start "making noises"... if you know what that means!!Also I would like to say this I do not believe you are a believer of the Ahl e bayt. You are an impostor who is trying to destroy Islam from within. The likes of you assasinated Hazrat Ali and caused the tragedy at Kerbala. People in Kufa also said that they would support the Ahl e Bayt as you are saying now and see what Hazrat Husein had to bear. You are doing the same thing. Yazid was a wrong doer and there is not one sunni or wahabi that will disagree. All muslims agree that the tragedy at kerbala should not have happened. Islam isn't threatened by Sunnis and Wahabis but it is threatened by the likes of you who want it changed.There is one thing that comes to my mind after reading everything that you people have been writing. I don't think you actually read what you write.And if you know any wahabi financed site, please let me know cause I would like to know what they have to say.And now I do not care if you believe whether I am a bohri or not. I set out to seek the truth. I may not have found it yet but what I know for sure is that it is not with you or your Imam. People who are intolerant, who abuse without any provocation and who are not the least bit compassionate towards others are not in the least following the Islamic doctrines of Peace, Compassion and Tolerance that they keep harping about.Have a nice life.

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