A. Yusuf Ali

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
mumin
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#31

Unread post by mumin » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:26 pm

Need more info on Yousuf Ali. I have heard it said that he was a relative of the then bohri Daee and because of friction between ideologies he left the dawat. He used to teach in the madrasa of surat. Some time later in life he was asked by the Nawab of hyderabad to translate theHoly Quran.

Muslim
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#32

Unread post by Muslim » Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:20 pm

Good thing. But is there such a sect called "Sunni Bohra"? I presumed all Bohras are part of the Shia cult. Perhaps I could be wrong.
Jafari Bohras, for example, are Sunni Bohras who branched off and follow the Hanafi fiqh.

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#33

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:07 pm

Question 1 to Dear Br. Khan, Danish, Muslim, Africa wala and all other like minded:

My case is not different than you guys. But I have not left the community yet. The reason are:

1. I don't want to leave my family ties.
2. Tough resistance by my wife.
3. Still feel that living as a community is a good idea. Comparing muslims Bohras are open minded (except Burhanuddin issue), educated and tolerant which I don't see either in Sunnis or Jafariah.
4. I sincerely wish to go along with progressive but feel that system itself is in the initial evolution stages plus if the presence of Dai is taken out what else is left over to say ourselves as Bohras?
5. Last but not least, don't find inner strenght to do so.

Please comment!

Question 2 to Dr. Asghar Bhai: Is this Yousuf Ali is the same person who wrote "Tarikh-e-Dollat-e-Fatamyah"?

Please respond!

Africawala
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#34

Unread post by Africawala » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:53 pm

Dear brother Sajjid,

Each one of us has a soul and we have to nurture that soul. If you think that the Dai teaches you what you need for your soul then by all means hang in there.

However, after I die my wife and my relatives are not going with me. I am responsible for my soul and it is the only thing that is going up. If I do not believe that the Dai and my relatives to have given me enough proof that their teachings are right then I would explore other venues. This is what led me to leave.

I did not believe in the Imam in Purdah. No parent leaves his children for sooooooo many years and goes into seclusion without seeing his children ever again. Daur al Satr during Imam Ismail's time was very very brief. Even then the Imam was in touch with his people through his representatives who in fact saw the Imam from time to time. The present Dai does not claim to be seeing the Imam.

I did not believe that the Dai was helping nurture my soul. Islam is not greedy. It helps the needy. In Bohora religion, only Dai and his family's needs are recognised. Also there is too much emphasis on Jamans and Matam. There are people around the world that die because there is no food and the Bohoras have Jamans every single day for this or that. What a waste of time and money. There is no emphasis on Ibadah. Just eat, do matam and hand over everything to the Dai.What kind of religion teaches this.

I do not believe that Bohras are the only open minded, educated, etc. There are other Muslims who are educated and open minded. In fact I found the Bohoras very closed minded as far as religion is concerned. You can't move outside the perimeter of what has been prescribed to you by the Mullahs, Amils and Kothars without being prosecuted. You can't marry outside, your spouse is forced to change religion if he is a non-Bohora. There is a lot of insecurity in Bohora religion. I have not seen this anywhere else.

________________________________________________

4. I sincerely wish to go along with progressive but feel that system itself is in the initial evolution stages plus if the presence of Dai is taken out what else is left over to say ourselves as Bohras?
__________________________________________________

You do not have to go along with progressives. You have to find your own way the way we did. You are too concerned with the outer expects of a faith which is never going to bring you happiness.
What is a Dai? Dai means a missionary. There are a lot of missionaries out there if you need to have a missionary leading you. You should not depend on anybody, brother. You have to lead yourself and take that plunge.

_________________________________________________
Last but not least, don't find inner strenght to do so.
_________________________________________________

If you are going to succumb to family pressures and your inner strength then don't even think about changing sides. Stay where you are and suffer.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#35

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:39 pm

.BR. Africawala
AS
You have to find your own way the way we did.
What was your solution? Is it possible to describe it? Did you decide to leave Islam? If not what are you following?

Wasalaam
.

Africawala
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#36

Unread post by Africawala » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:27 pm

Dear Muslim First,

No I did not leave Islam. I studied Sunnism which appealed to me at first, but I found it very rigid (may be I did not have the right mullah)and I have a lot of love and respect for Ahl Al Beit so I could not move away from Imams. The sunni Mullah was very accusative of Hazarat Ali and Imam Jaffar as Sadiq. I studied Ithnasheri mahzab but again there is this occultation of the Imam. I must admit I did not study it hard enough. Actually, I studied this first as we used to celebrate Mohorram and Ramadhan with them. Studied Sufism which was very intense but beautiful. However, they have several teachers and none from the Line of the Imams. Finally we (my wife and children) studied Ismailism/Aga Khani version and joined it. Actually my professor had recommended it since he knew I was a shia of Ismaili branch. This faith is very misunderstood and as I learned it I found out the accusations are misplaced. However, it is very difficult to convert to this faith and I almost gave up (my wife didn't), because I found my own friends who are Ismailis, discouraging me. In other words, they did not want me to join because they believe that as long as you are a Muslim there is no need to convert. I was just persistent and it took me almost or close to 4 years to get initiated. They teach you the faith and then they give you time off to make up your mind. They do not initiate you right away. It is very peaceful, compassion, tolerant and encourages volunteerism. Guidelines are set out for you as to your obligations to the faith, and then you are left alone. Now it is up to you to follow through or not follow through. Nobody checks on you, nobody's hands and feet to be kissed, etc.

Salaams brother.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#37

Unread post by porus » Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:05 pm

Dear Africawala,

You wrote that you used to observe Muharram and Ramadan? I understand that Ismailies do not observe these in traditional Muslim way. Please tell us if there is any change in your attiude/belief about these months since you joined your new faith. Thanks.

mumineen
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#38

Unread post by mumineen » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:35 am

The present Hazar Imam ( HH The Aga Khan) of the Ismaili Aga Khani Community is a Harvard Scholar in Islamic Studies.

Since his appointment, he has been gradually bringing his community to the mainstream Islam. Obviously he could not do it overnight after the death of his grandfather who had introduced some progressive (and objectionable to mainstream Muslims) changes to the religion. It is a big ship to turn after decades of very liberal practice observance of Islam during his grandfather's Imamat.

Now as we understand it, the Ismaili Aga Khani community members go for Haj, observe fasts, have always observed Ashur (Moharram). In fact, when the Old Aga Khan brought the reforms, some of the Ismailis never followed all his drastic changes to the tenets of Islam.

Average Bohra
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#39

Unread post by Average Bohra » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:12 am

Sajid,

"Last but not least, don't find inner strenght to do so."

If you don't have the inner strength, then you will not and cannot overcome the rest of the issues / obstacles you have listed.

Furthermore, most Bohra's I have met are closed minded and not educated; and family ties aren't tied solely to religion. There is a bond of love and mutual respect that keeps a family together, with or without a common religion.

"In the end there is one dance you'll do alone"

--Jackson Browne

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#40

Unread post by Alislam » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:28 pm

Br. Africawala ASAK.

Quote :
______________________________________________

"There is no emphasis on Ibadah. Just eat, do matam and hand over everything to the Dai.What kind of religion teaches this"
______________________________________________

Peeple on this board and elsewhere will laugh if you say that Boharas do not give emphasis to ibadah. They follow the tenets of Islam like salalt, Saum, Hajj etc no less religiouly than the other brothers of Islam.

In fact Aga Kahnis have forsaken many a times the basic tenets of Islam like Salat etc and for this reason, been looked upon as non-muslims by the ummah.

The are so many strong Ahadees on Namaz esp by Imam Jafer (AS) that "one who forsakes Salat is not from us ".

Of course you'll argue that whatever the Hazar Imam says is religion and blah blah..

What is made obligatory by Allah and re-emphasized by the Prophet(SAW) and Imams (AS) cannot be made otherwise by any Tom ....

Get up from your sleep and think logically before you write and follow!!

was salaam

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#41

Unread post by Alislam » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:34 pm

quote:

________________________________________________

You do not have to go along with progressives. You have to find your own way the way we did. You are too concerned with the outer expects of a faith which is never going to bring you happiness.
What is a Dai? Dai means a missionary. There are a lot of missionaries out there if you need to have a missionary leading you. You should not depend on anybody, brother. You have to lead yourself and take that plunge.

_________________________________________________

Very true! you don't need to follow anybody expect the Hazar Imam !! and can you tell me what HE follows (if at all...) apart from wine, dine, horse riding, marrying, divorcing etc..,

oh, i forgot to cover all this HE even runs some charities so that no one can point at Him..

Quote:
__________________________________________________

Nobody checks on you, nobody's hands and feet to be kissed, etc.
_________________________________________________

Yes, you don't need to do all this except allow the community females to make fall thier hair so that his excellency take pride in walking on it..

Africawala
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#42

Unread post by Africawala » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:41 pm

Dear brother Alislam,

I was asked a question and I answered it. This is the second time I was asked the same question, so I decided to answer it knowing very well that people who have Holier than Thou attitude will attack me like you have done. To each his own brother. I respect your beliefs and your views. Peace. I am not responding any more questions on this subject because I am not here to propogate Ismailism. I am happy in my belief, have found peace as a result, and this is what counts. I do not care what you think or what the whole Ummah thinks. I am not going to respond to your accusations about Salah, Saum, etc. because your accusations stem from ignorance. Before I converted, I had the same views about Ismailism that you have and was skeptical but I gave it a shot and I liked it and I converted and I have never been happier. Salaams.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#43

Unread post by porus » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:28 pm

Originally posted by Africawala:
Dear brother Alislam,

.....I am happy in my belief, have found peace as a result, and this is what counts.....
I wish I could say Amen to that.

But belief in anything does not lead to peace. Beliefs, all beliefs, must be shattered for peace to result. Have you investigated Zen?

Ultimately, Ismailism is no different from Bohraism. For source, you could start with Da'ailmul Islam, the main body of their fiqh. It is a document designed to enslave you to Imamat. Bohras and Ismailies differ only in who is the top dog.

Social relations - and here you may find Ismaili society more congenial to your own particular taste - are sensitive to our temporal and geographical situation and they are never a source of "happiness". The latter has to do with your relation to God or transcendent reality. You can have that relationship within any religion, Bohras included.

But I would not delude myself into thinking that Ismailism is any "truer" than Bohraism. Both are equally true.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#44

Unread post by Alislam » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:13 pm

Br Africawala ASAK

quote:
__________________________________________________

I do not care what you think or what the whole Ummah thinks. I am not going to respond to your accusations about Salah, Saum, etc. because your accusations stem from ignorance. Before I converted, I had the same views about Ismailism that you have and was skeptical but I gave it a shot and I liked it and I converted and I have never been happier.
__________________________________________________

Thanks for clarifying.. My point was that do not give the Islamic color to what is being practised/Not practised by Ismailies.

Islam is not as percived/practised by a chosen few who have thier so called esoteric interpretations for justifying not following the outwardly acts like Saum, Salat etc.,

Having a clear understanding of those teachings and still following it because the Prohphet followed it, Imams follwed it (including the common Fatimi Imams)cannot be ignorance, whereas justifying it for not following it may be one.

was salaam

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#45

Unread post by Danish » Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:04 pm

Dear Sajid,

Here's my responce to your earlier queries:
My case is not different than you guys. But I have not left the community yet.
Sorry to say but that’s a contradictory and blasphemous statement. Cannot have both ways.
The reason are:

1. I don't want to leave my family ties. 2. Tough resistance by my wife.
Family ties are never or hardly broken; perhaps only temporarily. You don’t need to indulge in hardcore religious debates to offset and upset your family members or any other closed ones for that matter. In short, “to you is your system and to them is their system and there’s no compulsion in GOD’s System”. As long as YOU, YOURSELF, understand and follow the guidance as a System and your Way of Life, as ordained and decreed upon you in the Quran in its most natural ways, no other human can enforce and/or change rules to suit their needs for the other. In other words, you are responsible for your own soul and will be judged accordingly. No two individuals are exactly identical in every respect, be they twins or clones.
3. Still feel that living as a community is a good idea. Comparing muslims Bohras are open minded (except Burhanuddin issue), educated and tolerant which I don't see either in Sunnis or Jafariah.
Living in a “community” and living in a “religion” are two totally different systems. The “community” within which you live and act upon on a daily basis as a means for your survival, is in itself a Great Test for those who possess intelligence and wisdom. The “religion” is a man-made dogmatic ritualistic paganism full of heresies, enforcements, encroachments, additions/subtractions, conjectures, arrogance, superiorities, avariciousness, hatred, and above all contains abundance of idolworshipping schemes.

The Hindus and Buddhists have erected man-made stone structures and pundits and monks to serve and worship; the Jews have their Wailing Walls and Ezra (son of GOD) to serve and worship; the Christians have their crosses, Jesus (son of GOD) and priests and popes to serve and worship; the Arabs and their segregated descendants (sunni/shia and its sub-sects) have their own stone structures (kaba) and other humans (Muhammad, Ali, Hussain, Abbas, mullahs, dais, syedenas) to serve and worship. Hence, all man-made religions claim that they are the best and follow the True Path, yet none of them actually do.

[6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.
[12:106] The majority of those who believe in GOD do not do so without committing idol worship.
[16:83] They fully recognize GOD's blessings, then deny them; the majority of them are disbelievers.
4. I sincerely wish to go along with progressive but feel that system itself is in the initial evolution stages plus if the presence of Dai is taken out what else is left over to say ourselves as Bohras?
Forget about progressives/non-progressives or other man-made religions/sects/cults etc; read, study, understand and follow what is revealed (Quran) unto you and become a ‘Muslim’ (one who submits, obeys and serves the commands of Allah as per HIS natural system).
5. Last but not least, don't find inner strenght to do so.
Pray (dua) to Allah for HIS mercy, forgiveness, blessings and guidance, that you may prosper, attain the strength you desire and try your level best to live a happy righteous life on this earth. Be sincere, be patient and continue to live a simple and righteous Way of Life. That is all there is to it.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#46

Unread post by Alislam » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:16 pm

Br Danish,

quote:
__________________________________________________

Forget about progressives/non-progressives or other man-made religions/sects/cults etc; read, study, understand and follow what is revealed (Quran) unto you and become a ‘Muslim’ (one who submits, obeys and serves the commands of Allah as per HIS natural system).

_________________________________________________

How & on Whom is Quran revealed!! A little more reading of Quranic verses will reveal it..

You are talking only of the first part of Kalema which will never make one a muslim without the other part..

was salaam

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#47

Unread post by Danish » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:58 pm

Dear Alislam,

The Quran was revealed to Muhammad for ALL MANKIND including the jinns, not just for one man or one sect. The Quran is for every INDIVIDUAL on earth, regardless of RACE, COLOUR, GENDER, STRENGHT, ETC.

The basis of the Quran is to get SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE and live a simple and righteous life as per the Islamic Jurisprudence, without adulterations and modifications, such as that of idolworshipping schemes, setting humans as Lords and partners, enforcing GOD's rules and regulations upon others as they deem fit, wishy-washy superstitious notions, etc., etc.

Don't you know how to live a plain, simple and righteous life? Haven't GOD bestowed you with brains with which to reason, eyes to see and ears to listen, in order to be intelligent, gain wisdom and be appreciative?

"Arabic Religion" alongwith its derivatives and liquid assets, such as the Sunni/Shia sects and other cults are just that, an influenced and innovated paganistic Zorastrianism that has nothing to do with Islam.

What "kalimah"? What are you talking about? Are you referring to the Sunni's and Shia's inventions and mandatory implementations as evolved from the Arabic Religion? By the way, which "kalimah" is correct, the sunni version or the shia version?

Grendizer
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#48

Unread post by Grendizer » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:58 pm

Salam Aleykum,

I just want to know about Dawoodie Bohras, an what are the core tenents of belief. Do you believe in the 5 pillars of Islam?

Also, what relationship to the many mausoleums of the shia martyrs in Iraq/Syria/Iran do the Bohras have?

Thank You,

Grendizer

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#49

Unread post by Alislam » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:30 am

Br. Danish salaam

quote:
_______________________________________________

The Quran was revealed to Muhammad for ALL MANKIND including the jinns, not just for one man or one sect. The Quran is for every INDIVIDUAL on earth, regardless of RACE, COLOUR, GENDER, STRENGHT, ETC.

________________________________________________

Why on Muhammad (PBUH) and not directly to the mankind..
why take some Ayats of Quran and neglecting others where it is mentioned to obey Muhammad and follow him.
Can you tell me who according to Quran are Ulul Amr, Razeqoona fil ilm and what does Quran say regarding Ahlebait (Muwaddat fil Qurba).

Follwing someone does not necessarily mean worshipping him.

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#50

Unread post by Danish » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:02 pm

Salaams Alislam,
Why on Muhammad (PBUH) and not directly to the mankind..
That's a most hilarious question you've asked.
why take some Ayats of Quran and neglecting others where it is mentioned to obey Muhammad and follow him.
Which ayat/s mentions directly to "obey and follow Muhammad only"?

One cannot directly obey a dead person? One can only obey and follow what the "dead person" leaves behind, such as "The Message of GOD (Al-Quran)".
Can you tell me who according to Quran are Ulul Amr, Razeqoona fil ilm and what does Quran say regarding Ahlebait (Muwaddat fil Qurba).
What does "ahlebayt" mean to you? How is it understood by the sunnies and why the differences? Please bring about the verses that talk about "ahlebayt", specifically to do with Ali, Hussain, Abbas, Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman, Fatema, Zainab, Ayesha, etc., etc. Where in the Quran does it mention to obey and follow them all?
Follwing someone does not necessarily mean worshipping him.
That's an understatement; well balanced, thought and defended by the Sunnies and Shias of the Arabic Religion (the hypocrites and idolworshippers).

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#51

Unread post by Alislam » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:52 pm

ASAK Danish

Congrats on inventing a new religion.. who is the author of your new religion..

You have left behind the sordid wahabbies in your philosophy..

Tell me how on earth you know that Quran is a word of Allah and who introduced you all other details... If you do not recognize the importance of Prophet(PBUH) then why follow what he said..
what is the guarantee that he is speaking the truth (according to you).

We will come to Quranic Ayats later, but first we get things sorted out at the basic logic level itself

was salaam

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#52

Unread post by Danish » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:38 pm

Dear Alislam,

First thing first, no need to jump ahead. Answer the questions I put forth earlier (one post at a time), as follows:

1. Which ayat/s mentions directly to "obey and follow Muhammad only"?

2. What does "ahlebayt" mean to you? How is it understood by the sunnies and why the differences? Please bring about the verses that talk about "ahlebayt", specifically to do with Ali, Hussain, Abbas, Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman, Fatema, Zainab, Ayesha, etc., etc. Where in the Quran does it mention to obey and follow them all?

Responces to your next questions, insha-Allah, will be given, once the above has been understood and cleared.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#53

Unread post by Alislam » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:07 pm

salaams Danish

I dont have any objections in quoting the relevant Ayats but i don't see any use in quoting it at this juncture.. Those can be understood easily if the basics are clear..

Let us first discuss the questions on the fundamental of Islam and then we move up step by step.

If you are so confident of your new religion (by the way how many members joined your fold..)then answer those question put forth to you..

The importance of Quran and its Ayats comes into picture if its sanctity is first understood.

was salaam

Danish
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#54

Unread post by Danish » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:48 pm

Salaams Alislam,

As mentioned earlier, no need to jump ahead of discussion at hand and circling things around to influx confusion. I guess we are getting no where, while ignoring my questions and bringing forth additional questions when the former are not answered. Take it step at a time, otherwise you'll get no response from me.

Everyone understands the basics or core values of Islamic jurisprudence and spiritual guidance to attain righteousness. Lets move the topic ahead from where it left off.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#55

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:06 am

There are a lot of ayahs in the quran where Allah asks the people to follow and his messenger. Do you want me to list some of them?

003.032
YUSUFALI: Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.

003.053
YUSUFALI: "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness."

003.081
YUSUFALI: Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

003.132
YUSUFALI: And obey Allah and the Messenger; that ye may obtain mercy.

003.164
YUSUFALI: Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.

003.172
YUSUFALI: Of those who answered the call of Allah and the Messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward;-

004.013
YUSUFALI: Those are limits set by Allah: those who obey Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the supreme achievement

004.014
YUSUFALI: But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.

004.042
YUSUFALI: On that day those who reject Faith and disobey the messenger will wish that the earth Were made one with them: But never will they hide a single fact from Allah!

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#56

Unread post by porus » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:30 am

لَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلَنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَنزَلْنَا مَعَهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْمِيزَانَ لِيَقُومَ النَّاسُ بِالْقِسْطِ وَأَنزَلْنَا الْحَدِيدَ فِيهِ بَأْسٌ شَدِيدٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَلِيَعْلَمَ اللَّهُ مَن يَنصُرُهُ وَرُسُلَهُ بِالْغَيْبِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ

The above ayat from surat al-hadid (57:25) is very interesting in that it describes the symbol of "Lady of Justice" with scales and sword. It also foreshadows the fundamental components of the US government: the legislative, Justice and Executive branches.

The components in the ayat are bayyinaat and kitab, the legislative; mizan, the scales of justice, the judiciary; and hadid meaning iron but interpreted to mean sword. This is the executive. Amongst the Shia, this refers to Dhulfiqaar.

However, the central importance of the Messenger is underlined as he is the the one who brought all three to mankind.

Grendizer
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#57

Unread post by Grendizer » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:36 am

To Brother Danish,

What is wrong with following the way of the prophet?

Remember who after Allah you proclaim your self as a muslim with. This is a reminder to you.

We are all muslim, and if you then distinct yourself as a sunni or shia, then you're in breach of following a sect rather than Islam, but there is very little wrong with following sunnat arrasul, after all he made Islam what it is, and defined how you should practice, he is the messenger, and the guide to Allah.

Fair enough, you're praying to Allah, and not Mohammed, but I think you're unfairly singling out Arabic people because the majority happen to follow the way of the prophet.

Goodbye, as it's time for Iftar.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#58

Unread post by Alislam » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:33 pm

Brothers ASAK

This basic problem stems from the sordid Wahabbiya philosophy who proclaim biddat for any and everything, even following the ways of the prophet..

It is not that they do not know of the ayats to that effect, but they are not ready to accept simply.

They say they do not follow anybody but they do not understand that they are following the author of Wahabbiya ie., Abdul wahab.

No doubt that such a creep philosophy is responsible for the the bad name that ummah is getting the world over.

sooner we wipe out them from the face of the earth, the better for Islam.

was salaam

Asghar Ali Engineer
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#59

Unread post by Asghar Ali Engineer » Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:28 pm

Brother Sajid Zafar,

It is common that people do not want to leave their families and cannot face resistance from their wives. But when a movement for a good cause starts some people have to take a bold decision and persuade ones family to understand the voice of conscience. All of us faced similar problem and we stood our ground making it clear to our relatives, including parents that we are doing
what we are doing, not to harass you or cause problems to you but to support a noble cause, to respond to our conscience. In all such movements families do get divided. When Islamic movement appeared in Mecca those who joined the Prophet of Islam, did part company with their families and relatives. Many wives deserted their husbands and many husbands, their wives. This is unavoidable. We should not rationalise our behaviour and should take bold stand to support the cause of truth.

Progressives have not deserted the community; on the other hand, we are fighting for its cause, to liberate it from the clutches of unscrupulous exploiters. Syedna's family is not pious but prosperous. Piety and prosperity do not go together. The holy Prophet and his family Ahl al-Bayt were truly pious, but not prosperous.

We are also not challenging the position of a da'i but want him to mend his ways. We have not changed our basic Shi'ah-Isma'ili beliefs at all. With these beliefs we will always retain our identity as Bohras, da'i or no da'i. What
matters are our fundamental beliefs, not an office.

As to your second question, I am not aware if this book has been written by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: A. Yusuf Ali

#60

Unread post by Alislam » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:07 pm

Br. Engineer Salaam,

quote:
________________________________________________

Syedna's family is not pious but prosperous. Piety and prosperity do not go together. The holy Prophet and his family Ahl al-Bayt were truly pious, but not prosperous.
_________________________________________________

If piety and prosperity do not go together, then what would you say regading some prophets like Sulaiman whose treasures are well known and also the Fatimi Imams (From Ahlulbayt) who were very rich.

In every age there are people who are very pious and also very prosperous.

_________________________________________________

We are also not challenging the position of a da'i but want him to mend his ways. We have not changed our basic Shi'ah-Isma'ili beliefs at all. With these beliefs we will always retain our identity as Bohras, da'i or no da'i. What
matters are our fundamental beliefs, not an office.
__________________________________________________

How many people on this board who called themselves progressives/reformists and have openly said they are not following the Shi' ah Ismaili beliefs anymore and so many i know have either joined the sunnis/Ithna Asheris/wahabbis etc...,
If progressives are not remaining even Bohris then a change is a distant dream.

was salaam