Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#1

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:32 am

One more project is in the offing by M/s.Kothar Developers Ltd., financed (sorry over financed) by Bank of Abde syednas. The project is to construct a Masjid in Vashi as there is none over there. For this, as always, the vashi residents are forced to shell out huge sums. The bare minimum amount is one unit which is Rs.52,000/- and multiple thereof. Needless to say that the kothar is never satisfied with anyone offering one single unit and so people are forced to shell out a minimum of 5 plus units (Rs.2,52,000). There are around 200 families spread in that belt from vashi to belapur and so its anyones guess as to what could be the extorted amount. The kothar claims that the project is worth Rs.10 crores and also promises the vashi residents that they will fill up the shortfall in collection if any. Now whether there ever can be a shortfall in kothar's extortion racket is anyones guess. The collection has already started in full swing since Ramzan and mola na karam ane ehsan na sabab thi bohras are given instalments of a few thousand rupees per month. The amount of funds that could be possibly generated can be gauged from the fact that a single family (a big time time property developer) has promised to donate Rs.1 crore. Hence they will collect 25 times more then the actual cost. Why not, if Cidco can collect 100 times more toll towards cost of construction of vashi bridge then can the kothar be left behind ? The icing on the cake will be after the masjid is ready. Then one more collection drive will start in the name of "Mola ne wakf karva ni chhe" because bohras believe that the masjids (House of Allah) has no religous sanctity if you dont give it back to mola by way of wakf. As per their usual practice the wakf amount will be not less then the cost of the project. By God, there is no more a lucrative business then Religion. Here is a clear example as to leave aside Hussain a.s. and Panjatan Pak a.s., they dont even leave Allah in their evil designs of making more and more money. The irony of the whole matter is that till today even the plot of land required to construct the Masjid is not yet purchased.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#2

Unread post by accountability » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:27 am

The forced collection in the name of religion is very usual in our community. May it be wajebaat, sabil, or fundraising for construction of mosques etc. And it is also the irony, that ordinary bohras succumb to their pressure every time. Our community is so bonded, that we resemble to live in medievel times, where slavery was rampant, and king's words were the words of god.

Every one in our community knows, that royal family is an extortion mafia, there is no religious sanctity around them. But syedna saheb's family is using the coveted post of dai, and the institution of dawat for empire building. I am surprised at the resilience of our commumity in bonding and slavery, that after so much humilition and indignity towards them, no one revolts. I am so baffled.

Smart
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#3

Unread post by Smart » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:52 pm

@accountability
No need to be baffled. When oxen are to be fattened, they are first castrated. This leads to them losing their angst and becoming mild. In this conditioned they can be kicked around without the danger of retaliation. What you are seeing is mentally castrated sub humans who have accepted themselves as slaves of some other humans, who they put on a high pedestal.
Obviously sheep are meant for slaughter!

Insight
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#4

Unread post by Insight » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:19 am

There is one fact in this post and that is collection of funds for the mosque for the sole purpose of construction of masjid in navi mumbai, the rest is all rubbish.

Let me tell you that i have verified this from my friend in navi mumbai and further i would like to state that my friend is a very straightforward person and will tell the facts whether its in favour or against the kothar or the Amil.

The fact is that there is a collection going on but not forcefully as mentioned. The amount is 52000 for 1 unit and is willingly paid by the people staying there without any grievances. There is no minimum 5 units as mentioned in this forum. Moreover there are many who are contributing much more than the said amount willingly.

My friend is not aware of the builder (bohra) who has pledged 1 crore and even if he has then its nothing great as builders today are the richest people with property prices skyrocketing in mumbai.

Its true that the plot of land is not yet taken but how can you take the land without paying some money, thus money is needed for acquiring the land, this is plain common sense.

Seconldy I would like to state that in this forum many speak against the Syedna and his activities. I understand that the progressives are out of the bohra circle and thus they may have their own reasons for it. However just for the sake of saying all activities of the Syedna cannot be blamed.
For instance the masjid in Navi Mumbai, what is wrong in the collection of the amount. You will as muslims agree that contribution for the mosque is a good deed and Allah would pay in multiples of that in whatever way he chooses best. Now this amount is paid in good faith and if this is misused by the Amil or the kothar then they will pay for their sins thus why you should worry and write about it, you are not even losing a penny. Doesnt this amount to geebath.

If any person writes his own story where he/she is cornered then its ok, but that is not the case here.

ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:32 pm

[/quote]
Insight wrote:The fact is that there is a collection going on but not forcefully as mentioned. The amount is 52000 for 1 unit and is willingly paid by the people staying there without any grievances. There is no minimum 5 units as mentioned in this forum. Moreover there are many who are contributing much more than the said amount willingly.
I personally know a person who was asked to dole out Rs.7 lacs and odd (14 units) and after much negotiation the amount was brought down to 5 units (Rs.2.5 lacs plus). Another bohra child's marriage is fixed and the amil told him in clear words that the nikah will be performed only after he agrees to contribute to the masjid fund. Regarding people giving willingly and its not a forceful collection, this point has been discussed at length about the willingness/majboori ma aapva pada many times on this forum so I dont want to say more about it. How many people give willingly and how many forcefully or out of fear that the marriages and burials of their kins will be obstructed is a well known fact.

Your point about the "rich builder giving 1 crore is not great", let me tell you that what I was trying to prove was that how actually the ultimate amount that will be collected will be 25 times more then the project cost and that how kothar does not spare even Allah in their evil designs of making money in the name of religion by siphoning off the extra amount.

Regarding your point that "its true that land is not yet taken and that first we need money to acquire the land". Here I would like to draw your attention to the innumerable projects which the kothar promised to execute but which are still lying only on paper and years have passed but the same are not yet completed although tonnes of money have been collected. A famous example is Fatema-tus-zohra a.s. gold zari for which crores of rupees are being collected but kothar has yet to get a final nod from the Saudi govt to erect the same. It is anybody's guess that till such time that the wahabi govt rules the kingdom there is no chance of erecting the zari and no one knows when the govt. will be replaced by another moderate one. So kothar must be actually praying for the survival of the govt because the longer it remains in power, the more time it gets to collect more money because once the permission for the zari is given, the collection drive will have to be stopped. Its like the saffron brigade wanting to keep the ram janmbhoomi issue alive so that on ram's name they can go on collecting funds from local and NRI hindus, once the mandir is made the fund flow stops.

Regarding your say "You will as muslims agree that contribution for the mosque is a good deed and Allah would pay in multiples of that in whatever way He chooses best". Here you forget that no one on this forum denies the importance and sanctity of Masjids, it is the money making racket in the name of Allah is what people are objecting to. Money making by way of forcefully collecting 25, 50 and 100 times more then the required amount, erecting shops, commercial establishments on the ground floor of masjid premises and selling them off for handsome amount, constructing marriage halls on the upper floors and assuring a steady yearly income for themselves and to top it all selling massalla space for bohras to pray. Regarding Allah paying in multiples thereof, I think He will only pay if the Masjids are constructed and operated within the framework of His Commandments and here we see that the bohra masjids lack that in totality. Further it is not sure whether it is Allah's or Burhanudin saab's masjid because according to burhanudin saab it has no significance till such time that the same is not given back to him by way of wakaf and that too after giving him an enormous amount of money equivalent to the cost of the masjid.

Regarding your point "this amount is paid in good faith and if this is misused by the Amil or kothar then they will pay for their sins thus why you should worry and write about it, you are not even losing a penny. Doesnt this amount to geebath".

The whole fight here is about the faith and the gross misuse of it. To give you an example, suppose you are in the habit of giving alms to a poor beggar on a daily basis thinking that you are helping a needy person and having faith that Allah will reward you for your good deeds. Now after a few days, one night you see the beggar smoking charas and gambling, will you still continue to give him alms the next day ? In all probability you will not but still if you continue to give him alms then your act will definately be disliked by Allah and you will not be rewarded but probably punished because here you will be held liable for financing him to commit sin. So after knowing very well that the money you give in good faith for religous purposes is used by a selectful of individuals to further their luxurious and lavish lifestyle, you still continue to give them then you decide whether your act will be considered a sawaab in the eyes of Allah or otherwise. Further if you will feel that creating an awareness amounts to geebath then one should stop viewing all news channels which inform us about various events like gujrat genocide, the atrocities commited by certain sections of the society on the minorities etc. because they expose the misdeeds of certain people and if that according you is geebath then you are commiting a sin by listening to the media's geebaths.

"If any person writes his own story where he/she is cornered then its o.k., but that is not the case here".

You are right that I have never been cornered but that should not stop one from spreading awareness amongst people especially the bohras of which one is a part of. If one sees a person being knocked down by a speeding vehicle and lying in a pool of blood, he should not look the other way and if he cant help him he should atleast report it to the police. If no one takes an initiative to expose the bad elements in society then this world will not be a safe and peaceful place to live in.

Was Salaam.

guest786
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#6

Unread post by guest786 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:23 am

well done ghulam muhammed. i agree on all of ur points of argument. Insight do u have any thing to say ??

Maqbool
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#7

Unread post by Maqbool » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:26 am

Dear Insight,

How many bohras will agree on your point that the money is not extracted by force?

Where ever you go they ask for money by humble way but when you refuse then they will show you true colour.

The other interesting thing in this matter is foundation and iftetah.

For foundation a shejada level person will come and will take away a handsome salam. Not only this they will start kadamboshi and jiyafat and extract maximum what ever they can. When shazada comes to your town or city you expect that they will look after the problems of mumenins but they are so busy in jiyafat and kadamboshi they do not have any time for this and they will run away with handsome loot.

When Iftetah is planed the jamat has to bargain for sayedna’s salam. The total collection for building Masjid is included 60% is of shaeza and Sayedna’s salam.

The Masjid is to be Wakaf in Sayedna’s name. The expenses of registration and other is to be paid by the jamat, Have you ever heard that you have to pay to the owner and his son for foundation ceremony and Iftetah of the property which is owned by Sayeda!!!


The Taheris know all this things but since they are made so confused they refuse to accept.

Insight
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#8

Unread post by Insight » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:32 am

Well, for all your questions i will summarise as under
I have rechecked with my friend and as far as his and the people close to him no one was forced. Its possible that the builder may have been forced but when you do require funds and if you know that someone is rich enough to contribute and is not coming forward a persuasion for contribution is not force unless its put like pay or else?

Firstly, the masjid being wakf is a practice among muslims also, it means that if I or a group of people construct a masjid then it is private unless we declare it open and that is wakf. I am not aware of the equivalent amount to be given to syedna for this so will not comment on it.

Secondly if i see or come to know from reliable source that beggar is having drugs then i will never continue giving alms to him, however this cannot be attributed to the syedna at all. Agreed that there are some or many corrupt elements in the community but there has been many good works also. Many masjids and musafirkhanas are constructed in india as abroad. Facilities are provided to the bohras by providing musafirkhanas in many cities and many businessmen take advantage of this at a very nominal cost.
In view of the above when a person contributes he does it in good faith considering the good he has seen. Whether the amount is 25 times or less or more that is something we do not know as the money is given in good trust. Thus if the kothar misuses then they will burn in hell fire so be it.

Thirdly your example of the media, well, the media's job is to provide unbiased news. But the progressive bohra's are out of the dawoodi community run by the syedna. You are pointing at the shortcomings or mistakes of the community you were once in. Thus you are pointing out the mistakes of other community in your forum, This is neither helping you nor the dawoodi bohras. Therefore why talk about it when you are not losing a penny.

On the contrary the progressive movement will go ahead if you concentrate on your shortcomings and create a drive where practically good things are achieved so that your community becomes an example of proper islamic living and people of other community get attracted. I have found that majority of this forum talks against the syedna, writes jokes and asks questions which have nothing to do with your reform movement. Where does this go, its being done for so many years and the progressive community is not growing as the dawoodi (syedna) community is growing. Besides many have returned to the syedna.

Agreed that there are some bad elements in the bohra community of the syedna. But then this was the even during the times of previous dais and imams.

Finally, talking about reforms and following proper islamic values is fine, but it should begin with the name of Allah and in your case it does not. Take your site for example, it does not have Bismilla on it, if you do not begin your movement with the name of Allah then how do you expect success in it.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#9

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:05 pm

Br.Insight,

I will not elaborate more on what I have already mentioned earlier as the views expressed by me are to be debated by one's ownself with an open mind. But I too would like to summarise your certain queries as under:-

I cant comment on your source of information with regard to the forceful collections but Iam sure of my sources who are active and prominent members of the bohra community in Vashi/Belapur. Regarding the builder being coerced into paying by force or out of persuasion is for him to answer but believe me even if he has acted due to force, there is every likelihood that he will not confess to it openly due to the fear psychosis created by kothar on which it thrives.

Regarding masjids being wakafed in non bohra muslim communities let me tell you that there is a vast difference in the manner in which it is done by them and done by bohras. In their case, the community doesnt pay enormous amounts to the wakf board over and above the money which it has already paid for constructing the masjid just to get it sanctioned because the wakf board is not doing an obligation by opening the masjid for its people. It is the peoples hard earned money which have been spent on the project on good faith that others in the community too will benefit from it. In bohras case, the fully completed masjid doesnt have any religous significance till such time that it is not owned by burhanudin saab. By using the barometer of sawaab, bohras are made to believe that the amount of sawaab one gets by praying in a masjid not owned by burhanudin saab is equivalent to praying in ones own house and the sawaab increases only after the ownership changes hands. In the whole drama where the actual owner of the Masjid i.e. Allah fits in, one is yet to figure it out. If you need to have more info on the practice carried out by kothar on issues of masjids then you gather information on the Khar masjid which was built by Mr.Siraj Lokhandwalla of Lokhandwalla Constructions and which was lying unused for many months for want of funds just to pay to burhanudin saab to acquire religous sanctity.

Regarding the beggar's example, I wanted to show you the similarities between when and how one's deeds are liked or disliked by Allah. You seem to be from the ones who just for the sake of solace and to justify your beliefs only make the usual statement "Aa to upar wala nu kaam chhe, mola to masum chhe ane aaimne kai khabar nathi". Dont feel offended but on one hand you believe that mola "Ghaib na sardar chhe" and on the other hand you say "aimne kai khabar nathi". Now for obvious reasons he cannot be both.

The good deeds done by kothar according to you are the construction of masjids and low cost musafirkhanas. Assuming if that is so then by now as per your own admission you are aware that funds are provided by the gullible bohras and not by kothar out of its own pocket. Even in musafirkhanas, various rooms are built by people from the community itself and in some places like Burhanpur and Galiakot you will find the donors names mentioned on the constructed structure. So the infrastructure is provided by the community and the crores collected from the respective gallas are again pocketed by kothar. Regarding the meals which are served there, it is mostly sponsored by the bohras visiting the dargahs and over and above that, almost every visitor contributes money towards "Hoob". Even according to rough guesstimates, the amount generated is far more then what is actually spent. Iam sad that you in your perception of good deeds conveniently forgot much needed good deeds like free education, free medical treatment, low cost housing, good schools,colleges and hospitals, all for the real needy poor bohras who far outnumber the rich.

Regarding giving money in good faith and let kothar burn in hellfire if they misuse it, it is difficult to buy this theory. People should not allow them to continue commiting fraud in the name of religion and just sit quite and close your eyes and be unconcerned about the whole issue. The whole purpose of creating this forum is to make people aware of the goings on in the community but even then if people dont want to be convinced for reasons best known to them, then it is one's own fate and nothing much can be done about it. Atleast a few enlightened ones will get involved in the thought process and then one will find change for the better.

You claim that the reformists are biased. Now if reporting some factual incidences seem to be a biased view then I dont have much to say on this matter. If at all any false matter is reported here then one is at liberty to pinpoint and defend the issue and enter into a healthy debate and prove his point because no one here wants to entertain any false reportings. Also please dont say that "you were once in the community" because we dont believe that we are outsiders and by just keeping away from the mainstream bohras doesnt make us any less from anyone of them. It is our open and blatant views which is used by the kothar to keep the divide. Hence it is not that we are not losing a penny, it is an issue of concern.

You want us to "create a drive where practically good things are achieved". Here the simple theory is to eliminate the bad so that the good survives and that is exactly what we are trying to do.

You say "majority of this forum talks against syedna, writes jokes and asks questions which have nothing to do with your reform movement". Here please note that the ones we are exposing is the kothar and the daawat administration and so it backfires on syedna by virtue of he being the sole trustee and chief of staff. If a war is won the credit goes to the army general and if it is lost then too the blame comes on him so it is his duty to keep a check on his subordinates and prevent any untoward incidents. If one takes credit for the good work then he cannot shrug his responsibility towards failure. Regarding jokes, it is in good humour. When you say the issues are nothing to do with reform movement then what is the meaning and purpose of reform ? These are the very crux of the matter. This is the area where reforms are most needed.


You feel that the reformist community is shrinking and syedna community is growing. Now we dont have a system of Safai chitthi, green card, yellow card and red card to ascertain the numbers. Neither are we interested in creating a separate community because already there are umpteen numbers of sects and sub sects within Islam. We dont thrive for money or power and we dont take pride in displaying our show of strength. Our only aim is to create an awareness in the minds of some uninformed gullible bohras and we are aware that more and more people have started asking questions to themselves on certain trivial issues and which will ultimately lead to asking questions to kothar. It is not something which can be done overnight because even after almost 900 years of inception of bohra community, kothar too inspite of the money power and muscle power has been able to produce only a meagre 1.5 million bohras which is less then 0.01% of the global population.

You said "bad elements were there even during the times of previous dais and imams". Now how do you know that those bad elements were not taken to task or that the followers were unaware of their deeds ? In those times the community was very small and there were no modern methods like now to interact with people and hence some bad elements might not have been exposed publicly. Now we have the means so why not make use of it.

Regarding not using Bismillah on the sight, I think the admin will be in a better position to answer that. Moreover using or not using the word Bismillah at each and every place and occassion doesnt make anyone a lesser muslim. Like wearing or not wearing a Jhabba,kurta and ijaar doesnt make anyone a lesser known dawoodi bohra.

Was Salaam.

Shahu
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#10

Unread post by Shahu » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:57 pm

Brother Gulam Muhammad you are a good writer indeed.

Any kind of reforms based other than teaching of Quran, which is nothing but the Deen of Allah is going to fail, Unless people open their eyes, ears and heart, and know that what they are following is not Deen, but religion, whether in mainstream Bohras or other group.

The model of ruling today is based on Fatimid’s theory of state and religion. And belief is extracted from the books written during that period, and after collapse of Fatimid rules. What Bohras are following is nothing but teachings of those dai’s who under patronage of Imam wrote all those books. Present dai has executed exactly what it should be if imam were alive today. So in that sense he has served his duty faithfully and diligently.

I know only one person who has exposed these teachings in his books “Hamare Ismaili Mazhab ki Haqeeqat Aur Uska Nizaam”, and “Tarikh Fatimeen-e-Misr” is Dr. Zahid Ali from Hyderabad. He was in possession of lot of original manuscript that has been donated as Zahis Ali’s collection to Institute of Islamic Studies (IIS), London. Now under Text and Translation series IIS is publishing these books.

These same dogma and man made laws was ruling during prophet’s time. He with his companion struggled hard and established a government with a system based on Quran’s teaching (Salaat and Zakat). During his period he built first masjid in Madina.

And What is Masjid?

In the construction of the masjid, Muhammad (saws) worked with his own hands as did the Muslims, whether Muhajirun or Ansar. When the masjid was completed, they built on one side of it living quarters for the Prophet. These operations did not over-tax anyone, for the two structures were utterly simple and economical. The masjid consisted of a vast courtyard whose four walls were built out of bricks and mud. A part of it was covered with a ceiling made from date trunks and leaves. Another part was devoted to shelter the poor who had no home at all. The masjid was not lit during the night except for an hour at the time of the night prayer. At that time some straw was burned for light. Thus it continued to be for nine years, after which lamps were attached to the tree trunks on which stood the ceiling. The living quarters of the Prophet were no more luxurious than the masjid although they had to be more closed in order to give a measure of privacy.

It had a niche but no dome or minarets. The walls were strong and the root was thick and sturdy. It had a pulpit from where the Prophet delivered his sermon to the congregation of the Faithful. The masjid was, indeed, a collective undertaking and each and every member of the newly-arrived Muslim community in Madina and many of its original inhabitants made their historic contribution to its construction. Surprisingly, there was no mishap.

The Prophet raised no funds for the construction of the masjid in Madina. The male members of the Muslim community donated their time and labour free of charge. They pooled their savings to pay for the construction material used in the building of the Masjid. The people of Madina were astonished at the spirit of self-reliance shown by the newcomers from Makkah and their upright conduct.

The Prophet's Masjid in Madina was the venue for Islam's important religious festivals and the social get-togethers of the Muslim community. Even for marriages, they thronged to the Masjid to have the marital contract blessed with the Prophet's presence. A propagator of education, he also made use of the Masjid for educating the Muslim community. A part of it in later years served as a Community Chest - the Baiiul Manl. The chronicles of the early days of Islam show that a hand of Abyssinians presented a simple, rhythmic play with sticks in the courtyard of the Prophet's Masjid in Madina and the Prophet and his wife, A'yesha, witnessed the performance. The Muslim community respected the sanctity of the Masjid but it was not isolated from their social and corporate life. It was a living institution - the imperishable base of the Islamic way of life. The light of Islam thus radiated from the House of God built by His Prophet in Madina.

One thing that instantly facilitated efficient governance in the Islamic State was a wide network of masjids serving as government centers. From the very first year of Hijrah, Muslims had been building masjids in their locales. The Federal, provincial and township governments oversaw that masjids were built in proper locations in every neighborhood. One call from the Muezzin (caller of Azaan), "Ya Salaatil Jami'ah" used to be sufficient to assemble the available men and women to the Masjid. There was no clergy or "Imams" to run and manage these Masjids or conduct congregations. The government official of each area was the leader of the area masjid.

The Masjid was not a temple of worship. It was the School, the Assembly, the Municipality, the Parliament and the Government House. The respective leader would discuss real issues about the community, entertain questions, present bills, announce decisions of the Shura (Counsel) and the Assembly would legislate. People came up with their ideas for betterment of the society and devised plans for social welfare. Every citizen remained informed of the condition of the needy, the orphans, the sick and the widows. People brought up news of any socio-economic problems facing any families and they were immediately addressed. What a cohesive System! Masjid was also the place where the leaders and officials were elected, ambassadors received, and defense matters decided. What a convenient and ready-made infrastructure for the government and public! Later on, a Hadith was invented that it was Haraam to discuss "wordly matters" in the masjid. Alas! With this single stroke of pen, by the third century Hijrah, the Masjid had been reduced to what we see today, a temple of worship!

Today the masjid is reduced to proud possession of luxurious property, pomp, show, identity and a temple of worship. What it is worth of when it is not serving it's purpose?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#11

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:52 pm

Br.Shahu,

Thanks for your compliment. I try to translate my thoughts into words keeping only one thing in mind that my deen is Islam and I have to follow the commands of Rasul Allah s.a.w. and that Iam answerable only to Allah and His Nabi s.a.w.

Your post on the purpose and significance of Masjids is quite exhaustive and very good. I truly agree with you that not only the bohras but most of the muslims worldwide have forgotten the actual purpose and significance of masjids.

It is a fundamental belief of every muslim that Allah is everywhere, "Har zarre mein Allah ka zuhoor hai" which means that He is very much present in ones own house also so why not pray in the house, why is there a neccesity to pray in a masjid ?
Why was the concept of Masjid established by Rasul Allah s.a.w. ? What is the purpose, the "maqsad" ? The answer to that is a very important thing which every muslim needs to know. Firstly, if people prayed in their respective houses then there would be very less occassions for muslims to interact which each other, to know each other, to know of a fellow muslim's problems thereby having a very little chance of solving one anothers problems if any. Hence the main reason to have a masjid was to gather all muslims under one roof. This was not done for a show of strength like it is done nowadays but for a very different reason i.e. to understand and feel one anothers plight.

During Rasul Allah s.a.w.'s time, our noble prophet Himself made it a point to personally meet each and every person in the masjid and inquire about his well being. If one was happy and having no problems then Nabi s.a.w. too would be happy but if one was unhappy due to his poor financial conditions then Nabi s.a.w. at that very moment ensured that he was given some money from baitul maal. If one was sad due to his daughters being unmarried inspite of reaching a marriageable age, Nabi s.a.w. at that very moment called the father's of prospective grooms and tried to fix an alliance. Thus Rasul Allah s.a.w. made it a point to solve problems of the namazis well before the start of namaaz. Hence everyone was at peace with himself with no worries on his mind thereby being able to fully concentrate on Allah during namaaz without any distraction.

Compare the above with the present times. Nowadays, forget understanding each other and solving ones problems, a namaazi doesnt even know who is praying next to him. On the contrary in bohra masjids people are fighting with each other for a place to put their masallas. Forget the Imam of the masjid solving ones financial problems, he is busy selling masalla space. How can anyone pray in peace under these circumstances ?

In earlier days masjids were used as centres to spread the message of Islam which was peace, compassion and brotherhood. It was used to unite the ummah. Compare that with the present times. Nowadays, masjids are used to spread hatred by abusing the sahaba-e-Rasul s.a.w. and showering laanats on them and Ummul Momineen and to glorify 51st and 52nd dais. It is used as a medium to mock Imam Hussain a.s. by standing in circles and beating chests in chorus and addressing Fatema tus zohra a.s. as "Fatema, Fatema, Fatema"(Nauzubillah) without a tear falling from one's eye. The masjid imam is reduced to a P.R.O. of kothar who uses the medium to spread the message of giving more and more wajebats to burhanudin saab. The masjids are used to divide the ummah on the basis of false and distorted versions of Islamic history. Bohras are prevented from praying in all non syedna owned masjids. The masjids which are by the people, for the people and of the people are reduced to by the people, for burhanudin saab and of burhanudin saab. Where is the purpose, the maqsad ? Hence,if the Masjid (The house of Allah) is being constructed and the very purpose for which it was established is being defeated then it has no significance in the eyes of Allah

Insight
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#12

Unread post by Insight » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:44 am

Before i come to the topic of dicussion i.e of Masjid in Navi Mumbai, I would come to your comment on the absense of Bismilla Irrahman Nirraheem on your site. Well, you have said what difference does it make if it is not there and you have equated it with wearing kurta shaya. This is definately not expected from you my dear brother. You cannot equate Bismilla (In the name of Allah the most benefecient the most Mercifull) with kurta topi.

What difference does it make, it does not for those who do not want to make the beginning of any good work in good faith with Allah's name but for those who do it makes a lot of difference. Our prophet Rasululla Salleallaho Alaihe Walehi has mentioned that Bismilla should be said before beginining anything (islamic and in good faith) eg starting from the house, before having food, purchase of any items, before beginning to cook etc Its not just confined to prayers and reading of Holy Quran. It brings barakat to the work done thereafter.

Your site niether has Bismilla nor any quotes from the Quran but contains quotes from western (christian) scholars. This gives the impression that it is not a site belonging to muslims.

You should be aware that you are rasiing your voice of dissent against the Dai. You cannot win this unless you do it religiously as he is the head of a religious community. Speaking against him, writing against him and protesting, filing cases in court will take you people nowhere. For example if you know that pakistan has many corrupt politicans and they misuse the funds at the cost of facilities to the poor and needy. Concerned about the fellow human beings there you in india write in newspapers, show on TV, do protests on streets but does it really help the people of that country. The people of india will only know about it and it will not help them, neither it is helping the people of that country. To make a reform in that country you need to put political pressure, politics have to be fought with something similar or you have to remain quiet and expect that Allah will pay for the "sabar". Allah always gives reward to those who do sabar.
Similarly your reform movement will not succeed unless you take this religiously if at all you are right in criticising the Dai. You said that the reform movement is all about criticising the syedna and kothar and amils. If you think that this is all the reform movement is all about then your movement is without head or tail.

Another best example i can give of Dr Zakir Naik, his mission is that the media is criticising the muslims and portraying that islam is bad especially the western world. To fight this he has started the channel Peace TV wherein he is not speaking against, i repeat, against any other religion but is comparing the different religions and thus proving that islam is the best, true and the right religion and Allah is the only creator of this world. Take your reform movement, it does not take into account any good done by the Syedna and it just tries to find fault in everything the syedna does. I belong to bhopal also and i can tell you that there are some people among the reformist and the syedna who are neither proper reformists nor proper dawoodi bohras as they want to have enjoy in both, since this is not the topic of discussion i will talk about it someday later.

Syedna is totally unconcerned by your work and he is carrying on with his work. In the past 100 years many mosques, musafirkhanas, madrasas, trusts have been built not only in india but abroad also. Today dawoodi bohras have the best of all facilities while on travel to all ziarat places plus at many other cities. Its also cheaper or equivalent to other tours of other muslims and other religions as i have done comparison of the same. What is wrong in wearing kurta topi, after all our prophet Rasululla Salleallaho Alaihe Walehi liked the color white and preferred this color during prayers. This is also echoed by other muslims. You can see Qtv and Peace Tv where you will come across this. You are standing before Allah for prayers and the clothes have to be neat clean and presentable.

Regarding the various examples you have mentioned i do agree that there are some bad Amils and good Amils in the community. Similarly in the reformist group there are good people and bad people. Why do not you talk about your bad ones and what action are you taking against them.

Its going to be there, We have to see the positive side and whether positive outweighs the negative. Your comment that in the musafirkhanas and jamans there is a hub collected. Well, I have been to Burhanpur, indore, ujjain, Galiakot etc and have my personal experience that the hub is aked but not forced upon. Especially from people who come from small towns and villages no hub is even asked. Just take it like this, if a room is given to you for Rs250 with all meals free for a family of 4 then it works out that more than this amount will be just spent on food if eaten outside in a hotel on a per day basis. Thus staying becomes free. If the family opts to stay in a hall then still the meals are free and staying cost is just Rs30 to Rs60 per day. Now with this facility a family stays for say 3 days then its the concience of the person that makes him pay the hub voluntarily. Now if this money is misused by the administration then they are answerable to Allah, how can we know for sure how much money is misused if at all it is. If we think it this way then nothing can be done.

You say that the dai is aware of all the bad elements so why is he keeping quiet. He is definately aware and much more than you and me and he knows best why he is quiet or how he is taking action. I had said that such elements where there since olden days even during the time of our prophet. ( you know whom i am referring to) . And our prophet knew about it and he also knew that some people from his family will kill his grandson Imam Hussain (Alai Salam), then why did he not take action, if he willed he could have finished all those as he was directly speaking to Allah and had all the angels at his command. Imam Hussain laid down his life for the sake of Islam and Allah ultimately took action against them.

I will give you another example, say in good family with 5 children one son falls into bad company and starts drinking and taking drugs. One daughter gets pregnant before marriage. Do you think these 2 will have to be thrown out of the house or punished openly in public. They will be explained sternly about their misdeeds but the family will most likely keep this wrapped up so that other good members lives, marriages or their inlaws should not be effected due to the 2 bad elements. In order to save the majority of the good people from getting a bad label the bad deeds of the minority 2 will be kept a secret.

In order to make a masjid in Navi Mumbai there needs a drive, a movement. Its not that the masjid is imposed on Navi Mumbai people but the people themselves have felt the need for the same. As Amil is representative of the Dai he is taking this movement forward as the people have entrusted him this work.

In summary i would like to say that simply criticising on all aspects of syednas work will do no good. Rather its better to concentrate on doing good work ourselves and see how much good we ourselves are doing than simply criticising others. I can accept if dawoodi bohras who are with the syedna criticise amils and bhai sahebs as they are affected but you are not with the syedna so your criticism is not warranted.

Maqbool
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#13

Unread post by Maqbool » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:33 am

“Insight
Its possible that the builder may have been forced but when you do require funds and if you know that someone is rich enough to contribute and is not coming forward a persuasion for contribution is not force unless its put like pay or else?”

The force in else is always there against threat of not performing Nikha or other ceremony or even delaying burial of the dead body. If you are true bohra as claimed you should know this.

“I am not aware of the equivalent amount to be given to syedna for this so will not comment on it.”

All the common bohras knows this and you are not aware is really surprising!! That too is from a real bohra.

“I can accept if dawoodi bohras who are with the syedna criticise amils and bhai sahebs as they are affected but you are not with the syedna so your criticism is not warranted.”

Do you expect the bohra to speak agains Sayedna in public!! That clears you are not a true bohra. To speak in favor of sayedna on this forum you have to hide your identity in fear.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#14

Unread post by like_minded » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:02 am

The biggest question which i propose to ask is... Do we need a masjid, the so-called "house of God"??

What is the need?? Instead of spending tons of our hard earned money in constructing masjids, which eventually becomes the property of these blood-sucking parasites/gangsters, why can't the same be spent on betterment of bohras? and why bohras alone? It can be spent on people who fall in the bracket of "have-nots". Well, this issue has been raised so many times before on this board, and obviously I am saying nothing new.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Masjid for Bohras in Vashi (Navi Mumbai).

#15

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:45 am

Br.Insight,

Your certain questions have been answered by Maqbool and so I will not lay more stress on those. However regarding ur comment on Bismillah, let me state that no one undermines the importance and sanctity of it but there are a number of occassions when the same is not used and by virtue of it, it doesnt make anyone a lesser known muslim. Regarding Bismillah not appearing on this site, I have stated earlier that it is for the people who created this site for them to answer. Regarding kurta/saaya, I only wanted to draw ur attention to the importance it is given in bohra community especially wearing of a kasab ni topi. There are scores of staunch bohras who dont wear topi on a daily basis of which the kothar is aware of but still they are not excommunicated but treated as staunch bohras. I fully agree with you that Bismillah brings barkat and it is a very important aspect for a muslim but there are scores of other equally and more important things which a muslim is required to do but sadly it is overlooked.

Regarding people on this forum quoting only from western (christian) scholars, I request you to visit other threads on this forum wherein you will find how Quranic verses are quoted for reference at umpteen number of times.

Regarding putting political pressure on kothar, I feel it is a far fetched thought considering the present state of affairs in our country. We all know as to what type of stuff these politicians are made of and how easy it is for groups like kothar to pocket them considering the quantum of money power and muscle power that kothar has. Todays politicians work on vote bank politics and so they will protect the worst kinds of people no matter how corrupt and evil they are provided they have a secured vote bank. Hence the only ray of hope for people of this country is judiciary and for which court cases are filed by reformist groups with a hope that justice will prevail if we knock the doors of the courts.

You feel that protests will be of no help but I feel you are wrong on that. See the recent protests of Raj Thackerey against immigrants wherein although he got a bad name but he still managed to stir the hornest's nest and start a thought process amongst Mumbaikars. If there would have been no protest, the effected ones would have had no opportunity to air their plight. Now Iam not here to debate on the manner of that protest which was violent neither on the issue which according to some people was right and according to some was wrong.

You feel that we do not raise our voice aginst the dai on religous matters. For this you will again have to visit other threads on this forum which are full of the anti religous activities of burhanudin saab. Even on this present thread of Vashi Masjid what we have tried to put forth are the anti religous activities by way of making huge profits in the name of Allah (collecting a number of times more money), by refusing to perform nikah of people who have not paid for the masjid, by charging hefty amounts to give masjid a religous sanctity, by projecting that the masjid is only a house of bricks till such time that it is not owned by burhanudin saab. Now if these according to you are not anti religous acts then what is anti religous ? If charging fees of Rs.40 crores to deliver Mohurrum sermons is not anti religous then what else is ? If selling masalla space in masjids and selling Mulla and Sheikh titles for 11 and 21 lacs is not anti religous then what is ? If charging Rs.51 lacs just to visit a bohra's house (ziafat) is not anti religous then what is ? If adopting an extravagant lavish and luxurious lifestyle for himself and his family is not anti religous then what is ? If showering abuses on the sahabas and relatives of Rasul Allah s.a.w. in masjids is not anti religous then what is ? If encouraging a divide within the ummah of Rasul Allah s.a.w. is not anti religous then what is ? The list my friend is unending.

You have given the example of Dr.Zakir Naik and that how he compares other religions with Islam and proves Islam to be the best without criticising anyone and this according to you is the BEST EXAMPLE. I agree that zakir naik is a very good orator and is very well read too but do you know that he is the one who had recently defended yazid and his war with Imam Hussain a.s. and for which he had to publicly apologise in newspapers. Now if my earlier example of a beggar to prove my point seemed unacceptable to you but zakir naik who has a wahabi trait and glorifies yazid seem to be a BEST EXAMPLE for you then I have not much to say on this matter.

You also feel that we only criticize burhanudin saab and dont take an account of the good work done by him. Let me state that due to the tremendous money and muscle power, burhanudin saab has got a number of avenues with him to glorify himself. Take for example the vayez, zikra, numerous urus functions and majlis's and a battery of amils and bhaisaabs who act as P.R.O's by praising him at every given opportunity and full page newspaper advertisements. Now does he have any mechanism wherein an average bohra's grieviances are addressed ? Does he have a simple Complaint Box at masjids, badri mahal and saifee mahal ? Does any affected bohra have the guts to complaint to him directly ? Atleast this is one forum where grieviances appear and people come to know about it. Everyone knows that this site is regularly surfed by kothar and its agents but then too they do nothing to eradicate the evil. Now if you are able to see good of kothar even with a magnifying glass or a microscope then please report it here. See that the good that you report is not done with selfish and malicous intent by kothar.

Regarding masjids and musafirkhana benefits, a lot has been said and proved beyond doubt that it is one more of the many businesses that kothar has and how the masjids are used to make money and to spread the message of hate and a medium to collect more wajebats.

Your comparison of Rasul Allah s.a.w. and Imam Hussain a.s. with burhanudin saab is something which is totally uncomparable. It is like comparing the sun with a zero watt bulb. The reasons of Allah and Rasul Allah s.a.w. behind certain acts of ommission and commission were something which is beyond a common man's reach to understand. Everything done by them were solely for the cause of Islam and the human race. However if according to you a bad child cannot be discarded then let me give you the example of Prophet Adam a.s. and Prophet Noah a.s. who disowned their respective sons as they had gone astray. Let burhanudin saab atleast follow this example.

Was Salaam.