Mola Ali (a.s.)

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Mola Ali (a.s.)

#1

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:49 pm

Mola Ali (a.s.) wrote a letter during his caliphate to all his Aamils/Officers: People of Non-Islamic religion must not be asked for incremental tax, they must be treated with dignity and respect, they should not be removed forcefully from their house, their animals must not be looted, full protection must be provided to them and their property, they must not be forced to change their religion, their place of worship and their religious preacher must be protected.

Can the most modern charter of Human Rights improve over what Ali said 1400 years back?

Ali (a.s.) me gazab ki Insaniyat thi –

Ali (a.s.) said, “Never adore your kids in presence of an orphan, otherwise they will feel sad by thinking if their parents would have been alive then they too would have loved them the same way!”

Ali (a.s.) slave, Molana Kumber (r.a.) has said, “Mola Ali never took our services for his personal work. He used our services only for religious matter. He will stitch his and Prophet (s.a.) shoes by himself. He use to draw water from well by himself, he will wash his own cloths. When he goes to buy new clothes then he will buy first for his servants as per servants liking and then will purchase for himself.

Practice of Mola Ali (a.s.) was to when he went to do shopping he will not purchase from those shops the owner of whom knowing Ali’s status will give him discounts, thus he went to those shop who didn’t knew his Status. And when doing shopping he will purchase finer quality for his slaves and inferior for self, someone inquired the reasons as it was opposite to general practice? Ali (a.s.) wanted that though they are his slaves but they shall not hurt by this fact. There can be many nobility appealing replies one can think of but in most of those replies the word “slave” will come -though the slaves will wear the finer clothes but their thoughts would be that our owner is kind that he give his ‘slaves’ finer clothes than he himself wears. Ali (a.s.) nobility was superior than this, he altogether eliminated the word “slave”, Mola Ali (a.s.) replied: “I am an old man this cloth is good for me, they are young and this is the age for them to wear these finer clothes.”

On the day of Eid-ul-fitra, a man named Abu Rafe, came to meet Ali (a.s.). He saw a sealed packet with Ali’s stamp on it. He thought that Ali (a.s.) is the caliph and as this packet bears Ali’s stamp thus it must contain valuables. Ali (a.s.) opened that pocket and to surprise of Abu Rafe it contain pieces of dry breads, which was dipped in water by Ali (a.s.) to make it soft!
Abu Rafe: Why you sealed such bread which even beggar will not steal?
Ali (a.s.): So my family member should not be able to replace it with butter/oily bread.
Abu Rafe: Has Allah stopped you from eating good food?
Ali (a.s.): No
Abu Rafe: They why do you eat such inferior stuff?
Ali (a.s.): Because the same quality is available to poorest of poor of our society. When their level will rise I too will raise mine. If they will see me eating the same type of food that they eat then they will not complain/grudge over their poorness, they will think if the Caliph of the time who is also the spiritual emperor, if he too gets the same stuff as we then there is no complaint about our status that we are poor!



Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#2

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:00 pm

When Mola Ali (a.s.) came to caliphate he ordered all his Aamils/Officers in every place where Islamic rule was: “None of the child should remain uneducated in your area. It is your responsibility to make sure that each and every child must get basic education.”

Thus, Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s.) was the first person on the earth to institutionally make the Primary Education compulsory for childrens.



Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#3

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:10 pm

Ex. UNESCO president Mr. J.Y. Jelly gave a written statement, “I am unable to distinguish between Quran and Nahjul Balagha, whether Quran is of Ali or Nahjul Balagha is of Allah.”
(Nahjul Balagha is collection of speeches/letters of Mola Ali (a.s.)):



Mubarak
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#4

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:14 pm

Eminent historian Gibbon wrote, “Ali has united the distinct qualities of a poet, a soldier, a saint in him.”



Mubarak
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#5

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:40 pm

Birth:
At the time of birth of Prophet Christ (a.s.), his mother Molatina Maryam (a.s.) was residing inside the building of Bait-ul-Mukkaddas. At the time of delivery, Allah ordered, “Maryam get out of Bait-ul-Mukkaddas, this is a place of worship and you are not allowed to deliver inside.”

But, at the time of birth of Mola Ali (a.s.), his mother Molatina Fatima Bin’t Asad (r.a.) was not residing inside the building of Kaaba. But at the time of delivery, Allah ordered, “O’ Fatima come inside the building of Kaaba.”

If Fatima bin’t Asad would have gone from the door of Kaaba then people would have alleged that she went by her own and not from Allah’s order. Thus, not to leave any doubt, the wall of Kaaba got cracked, a new way in to Kaaba was formed and from that new way in Fatima bin’t Asad went inside Kaaba to deliver Ali (a.s.).

Saudi Arabia government tried to hide this mark by filling in cement and ‘shisha’ but they suffered failure. And that crack which is mark of Ali’s birth is still present and can be seen on Kaaba wall at the time of curtain change during Haj season.

Razdan a 'Kul ho wallaho Ahad' paida hoova
Meher me asrar a 'Allah ho Samad' paida hoova
Ali jab paida hoove kaabe me aai yeh nida
'Lam Yalid' ke ghar me Ahmed 'valad' paida hoova


Salwat on Mola Ali and his progeny



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#6

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:14 pm

Compare the greatness and simplicity of Hazrat Ali a.s. and His brave and noble sons Imam Hassan a.s. and Imam Hussein a.s. with todays so called rightful spiritual followers and guide, the likes of Taher Saifuddin saab and Burahanuddin saab. Do they have the right to to say "Live like Ali a.s. and Die like Hussain a.s.", the stickers of which are proudly displayed in umpteen number of bohra houses. Burhanuddin saab should issue a farman to change all that stickers with the ones which reflect his life and teachings. The stickers should aptly read as LIVE LIKE MOHAMMED BURHANUDDIN AND DIE LIKE TAHER SAIFUDDIN.



Maqbool
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#7

Unread post by Maqbool » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:00 am

It is high time for Taheris to compare Sayedna’s behaving with practical incidence of Moula Ali. And especially on the human rights.


Come on please and list the incidences.



Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#8

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:32 am

Mola Ali's (a.s.) birth strength - mentally and physically

The first person that Mola Ali (a.s.) saw after his birth was Aaka Rasoolallah (s.a.). Ali (a.s.) offered his ‘salam’ to Rasoolallah (s.a.) and asked him what to recite? “Whatever you wish”, replied Prophet (pbuh). Then Ali (a.s.) recited all ‘Sahifa’s’/books that were sent on all Prophets - Adam (a.s.), Noah (a.s.), Ibrahim (a.s.), etc; Ali (a.s.) also recited Jaboor, Taurat, Injeel and full Quran.

Abu Jahel (L), as per the custom of that time brought some mud collected from the feet of then Statue of God to put on the eye of new born Ali (a.s.). Ali (a.s.) who was a just born baby slept Abu Jahel (L) so hard that his neck got broken and as per book ‘Ahsanul Kasas’, till his death it never rose!

Salwat on Mola Ali (a.s.)



Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#9

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:38 am

Br. Mubarak

AS

Your statement:
The first person that Mola Ali (a.s.) saw after his birth was Aaka Rasoolallah (s.a.). Ali (a.s.) offered his ‘salam’ to Rasoolallah (s.a.) and asked him what to recite? “Whatever you wish”, replied Prophet (pbuh). Then Ali (a.s.) recited all ‘Sahifa’s’/books that were sent on all Prophets - Adam (a.s.), Noah (a.s.), Ibrahim (a.s.), etc; Ali (a.s.) also recited Jaboor, Taurat, Injeel and full Quran.
Let us not get carried away with inaccurate, boastful, worshipful praise of Hz. Ali RA.

Just born child does not speak. Qur'an was not revealed long after Hz Ali was born and for almost 23 years to Prophet SAW. If Hz Ali was able to recite Qur'an completely then there was no need for Prophet SAW. And how many hours Prophet sat with infant ali RA to listen to "all ‘Sahifa’s’/books that were sent on all Prophets - Adam (a.s.), Noah (a.s.), Ibrahim (a.s.), etc; Ali (a.s.) also recited Jaboor, Taurat, Injeel and full Quran"?

Please remember this is a forum where people use their head. Save your lectures for Sabak sessions for gullible Bohras.

Wasalaam



Humsafar
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#10

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:51 am

Mubarak,

Nobody can deny that Hazrat Ali was a great human being. Please do not rob him of his humanity by telling these fairy tales about him. Don't insult his memory by turning him into a "miracle" man. If your purpose is heighten his stature and respect among believers then such fairy tales is only going to induce blind faith. Let people respect him and honour him for his actions and his principles. That is his legacy and that's all that should matter.



accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#11

Unread post by accountability » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:11 pm

Mubarak: these are the tales, that are repeated in waaz and without any genuine refrence, you referred a book Ahsanul Kasas, I could not find that book or the author of the book anywhere.

I think it is very dishonest on individual's part to quote without verifying the contents. I think you do believe in what you just posted, that is also very wrong, because you are believing in something which is not true.

Word Ahsanul Kasas is mention in quran in surah yousuf, Quraan 25:63 ! 5, but nothing close to your story.



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#12

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:51 pm

Br.Mubarak,

When Hazrat Ali a.s. was born, our Holy Prpohet Rasul Allah s.a.w. was not in Makkah and he retured to Mecca after 2/3 days. Now from the time of His birth, Hazrat Ali a.s. did not open His eyes and He did so only when Rasul Allah s.a.w. after reaching Makkah went straight to see Hazrat Ali a.s. No sooner Rasul Allah s.a.w. took Him in His hands, Hazrat Ali a.s. opened His eyes for the first time i.e. the first thing He saw after He came to this world was the Noorani face of Rasul Allah s.a.w.



Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#13

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:55 pm

Dear all non-Dawoodi Bohras brother, sisters and friends,

Namaz (salat) has very high prominence in almost every sect of the true religion of Islam. Rasoolallah (s.a.) approach was to like ‘halal’ and dislike ‘haram’.

In Namaz (salat), approach of Dawoodi Bohras to enter in ‘Sujood’ from ‘Ruku’ is: they will first keep their hands on ground and then their knees = exactly like approach of all ‘Halal’ cattle’s.
Example: Goat, Camel, Cow, etc

In Namaz (salat), approach of non-Dawoodi Bohras to enter in ‘Sujood’ from ‘Ruku’ is: they will first keep their knees on ground and then their hands = exactly like approach of all ‘Haram’ animals.
Example: Pig, Dog, Elephant, etc

Rasoolallah (s.a.) like ‘halal’ and dislike ‘haram’ thus, Dawoodi Bohras approach is that of Rasoolallah (s.a.) approach, and it is also similar to all ‘halal’ cattle’s.
Non-Dawoodi Bohras approach is NOT that of Rasoolallah (s.a.) approach, and it is similar to all ‘haram’ animals.

(One is right sect and rest seventy two or more are false. This simple and easily verifiable litmus test of Namaz approach filters one that is right. Haath kangan ko aarsi kya?)



Smart
Posts: 1388
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#14

Unread post by Smart » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:02 pm

@Mubarakbhai
Animals don't have hands. If you consider their forelimbs as hands then all animals have their forelimbs on the ground before the knees of the hind limbs touch the ground. So, what is Haraam and Halal about it?

Then again, is your faith based on the litmus test of such flimsy matters as keeping the hands on the ground first or the knees? Could you please elaborate?



Omar Bin Abubakar
Posts: 44
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#15

Unread post by Omar Bin Abubakar » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:13 pm

Dude Mubarak! I can't help laughing at that Verbal Diarrhea you jsut dished out!! C'mon!

What has the way animals sit stand got to do with prayers and the way humans pray!??

Lets let God decide who prays the right way shall we?

:)



Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#16

Unread post by Mubarak » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:17 am

Salam alekum va Rahmatullah,

Dear Brother Accountability/Muslim First/Humsafar/Ghulam Mohd./Omar,

I wish to sincerely suggest my humble and polite opinion on your post, Saturdays/Sundays are relatively free days for me and with mercy of Almighty God, will do this reply work then, Inshallah.

May Almighty Allah bless all,

Best and kind regards,

Mubarak



Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#17

Unread post by Mubarak » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:23 am

Ali’yun hubbahu junna,
Kasimunnar a val janna,
Vasiyul Mustafa haqqan,
Imam a ins val janna

Imam Ahmed bin Hunbal
(Originator of Fiqa a Hunbali)



Mubarak
Posts: 471
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#18

Unread post by Mubarak » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:02 am

Dawat-a-Zul-Ashira

The first mass scale preaching by Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) initiated with Invitation to forty members of his house to a party. In that party, to serve milk to members there was only one small bowl. Members started making mockery that everybody among them can drink liters of milk and what will happen with this small bowl! With Allah mercy and ‘mozizat’ (miracle) of Sayyedna Mohammad (s.a.), all forty members satisfactorily drunk milk and still milk was as it is! (Salwat)

Rasoolallah (s.a.) presented Islam and asked who will help me will be my ‘nayab’, deputy, ‘vasi’ and my successor. None rouse except Mola Ali (a.s.). Ali (a.s.) said, “Though I am younger among all, but I will help you, I will cut stomach of your enemies and will kill them.”

Prima facie the statement of Ali (a.s.) mirrors that of kid speaking in excitement that O’ Rasoolallah I will cut stomach of your enemies. But when we thought profoundly we learnt it is not a kid who is making that statement but it is the most intelligent philosopher in the world who is making that statement.

To appraise oneself in front of bigger authority is considered as bad manners. And to bow down in front of enemies is considered as cowardice/weakness. Mola Ali (a.s.) took care of both aspects.

By stating that he is younger, Mola Ali (a.s.) displayed his humility towards Rasoolallah and Allah. And by stating that he will cut stomach and will kill Rasoolallah (s.a.) enemies, Mola Ali (a.s.) displayed his courage/bravery towards enemies.

On this, Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) declared Mola Ali (a.s.) as his deputy and successor. Salwat on Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) and his progeny



Gulf
Posts: 674
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#19

Unread post by Gulf » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:35 am

Thank you Mubarak bhai for sharing these.... By the way there is a Perisian TV serial called "Imam Ali (AS) Shaheed E Kufa" a fabulous and fantastic TV series on Moula Ali (AS) Life, it is translated in Urdu too and available on youtube in 22 parts (total length of series is about 23 Hrs) that you may know..
I have downloaded all of the parts but couldnt union them, also the quality of film is good if you see on computer screen.. I am looking for DVD of complete series. Can you please guide me how to get the DVD??

Thank you



Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#20

Unread post by Mubarak » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:41 am

Kalam presented by Janab, Bhai Asghar Ali Jawriya Wala, in Vazihpura mosque, Udaipur on 13th Rajab viladat/birthday of Mola Ali (Year 1999 AD +/- 1yr.)


BETHA HAI MUSHKILAT KE RASTE PER HAAR KE,
A BADNASEEB DEKH ALI KO PUKAR KE.


Himmat na haar a dil, hazat ravan Ali hai
Toofan se na ghabra Mushkil kusha Ali hai
Hum aasiyon ki kashti manzdhar me fanse kyon?
Har captaan hai Mohammed aur nakhuda Ali hai.

To jab bhi gham a hayat ne sadma diya muze
Wahi yaad aa gaya mere mushkil kusha muze
To naam a Ali a pak ki taseer dekhye
Jab bhi pukara dil ne aaker sambhal liya muze
A BADNASEEB DEKH ALI KO PUKAR KE


Jo mushkil me har eik ke kaam aaya woh Ali
Jisne dushman ko seene se lagaya who Ali
Dil dahal jate hai jinki teg ki jhankar se
Aur rukh badal jata hai maidan me eik war se
To jung me gazi aur haram me hai namazi who Ali
Paaon choomti duniya jiska hai sarfarazi who Ali
Maar ke marhab ko jab aage badhe sher-a-khuda
Aur ukhara tha jo Khaiber to arsh se aana lagi sada
Shah e mardan, sher-a-yazda’n koovat a parvardigar,
La fata illa Ali, la siafa ila Zulfiquar

A BADNASEEB DEKH ALI KO PUKAR KE


Paththar per alam deen ka ghadha kisne?
Aur lalkaar kar Marhab ko pachada kisne?
Yon to ashab-a-Payamber th’e sabhi mojood,
Magar do ungliyon per dar-a-Khaiber ko ukhara kisne?
A BADNASEEB DEKH ALI KO PUKAR KE


Sawal na jane kya hove turbat me a Kamar, (Kamar is the name of this poet)
Chup ho gaye the hum to Ali ko pukar ke.


Who (munkar/nakeer) kya sawal karenge fakeer se pehle
Na pahunchne payenge who mere dastgeer se pehle
Aur jo aa bhi gaye Janab a Ameer se pehle
To me kah uthoonga Munker aur Nakeer se pehle
“Ali Imam-a-mansasto, manam gulam-a-Ali,
Hazar jaan girami fida banam a Ali”

To jiski jaban pe naam Ali ka gulam hai
Wallah do jahan me wohi nek naam hai
To dono farishte kahenge fir dekh usko kabr me
“Sone do chain se, sone do chain se,
Yeh Ali ka Gulam hai”

A BADNASEEB DEKH ALI KO PUKAR KE



Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
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Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#21

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:17 am

Dear Gulf,

Download "VCD CUTTER" from internet and you will be able to join all the vedio clips in one file like complete movie.

Best regards.



Gulf
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#22

Unread post by Gulf » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:59 am

Hussain_KSA wrote:Dear Gulf,

Download "VCD CUTTER" from internet and you will be able to join all the vedio clips in one file like complete movie.

Best regards.
Thank you very much



Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#23

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:57 am

Dear respected Aalim Brother Mubarak

Thank you for your post of Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:01 am, where you eluded those prayers of billion Muslims may be Haraam.

I pray in a Sunni Masjid in USA where about 300 people attend Jumma prayer. These people come from at least 25 countries and I see people holding hands on their navel, below navel, above navel, on the chest, left of the chest above their heart and on the side (either they are shia or from one of Sunni madhab). Regardless of their way of prayer they have answered Adahn and have come to worship Allah SWT. According to your reasoning their prayers are in vain because they are not Dawoodi Bohras.

Let me just give you my thoughts of 73 tribes or sects.

I believe 73 sects or 72 virgins or 120,000 prophets are just figurative numbers. Sects are not fixed at 73. If you count sects within shia would exceed 73. So it is just figurative way of saying those who follow Prophet SAW in best way and do not commit SHIRK will be close to Prophet SAW.

I have one simple question for you. Historically Imam Ismail died before Imam Jaafar. How did he become Imam if he died before his father? I want simple answer not fairytales like mock funerals etc. etc. In case Imam Jaafar was trying to hide his son then where did Imam Ismail spend time? There must be witnesses that they saw him here and there.

Wasalaam



S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#24

Unread post by S. Insaf » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:33 am

Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer was invited to Berlin, Germany to an All World Inter-religious Conference on Islam, Islamic State and Governance by Friedrich Ebert Stiftung held on 16th to 18th October 2008. Participants from countries like Germany, UK, Italy, Netherlands, Sudan, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, USA, Canada etc were invited. Among participants were Jews, Christians and Muslims. Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer was requested to deliver inaugural address.
It being Friday all Muslim participants requested Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer to lead ‘Juma’ (Friday) prayer and deliver Khutba. There were several Muslim women who also prayed together with men.
Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer in his Khutba spoke on the problem of Islam and Muslims in contemporary world and dealt with question of Jihad in one hand and of status of women in Qur’an on the other.
Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer in his inaugural address spoke on the values of Qur’an and the concept of society, which Qur’an gives for successful governance. He spoke in particular about values of justice, benevolence, compassion and wisdom. Any government whatever its form must ensure realization of these values. He also spoke in the light of history and contemporary world.
Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer inaugural address was greatly appreciated by all the participants in the conference.
Prof. Zaid Abu Nasr who was earlier teaching in Al-Azhar and now teaching in Netherlands University embraced Dr. Engineer and congratulated him for his profound knowledge of Qur’an and Islam.
Compare this with the act of late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin who had refused to pray behind a Sunni Muslim Imam and also to lead the prayer in a Sunni Muslim mosque in Alighar after receiving the honorary degree of doctorate. Late Sayedna's had hurt the feelings of Muslims there and it remained a subject of discussion for long time.



Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#25

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:19 pm

Br. Insaaf

AS

1. Br. Engineer's Khutba availbe anywhere?

2. Why was this post in Mola Ali (a.s) forum?

3. Br. Engineer is Mustali Bohra. Bohras do not have Khutbas in their JUmma prayers since they belive only Imam can deliver Khutba (That is what I was told). Did Br. Engineer violate this rule by giving Khutba?

Wasalaam



S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#26

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:41 am

1.Br. Engineer's Khutba available anywhere?

2.Why was this post in Mola Ali (a.s) forum?

3.Br. Engineer is Mustali Bohra. Bohras do not have Khutbas in their Jumma prayers since they believe only Imam can deliver Khutba (That is what I was told). Did Br. Engineer violate this rule by giving Khutba?
Brother

Muslim First,
1.The Kutba was delivered on the spot without a written text.

2.Some discussion was going on about offering prayers in Sunni masjids in Mola Ali (a.s)’s forum. As far as I know there is no Dawoodi Bohra masjid in Germany. Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb often goes to Germany for his treatment and there is no information of his offering namaz in any masjid. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Not all but most of the Bohra reformists including Asghar bhai and myself offer namaz in any near by masjid without bothering whether it is Sunni or Shia or Bohra masjid. Similarly Nikah in our families are performed by any Muslim Qazi. As we believe that the practice of namaz, Nikah and burial were set during Rasoolullah Hazrat Mohammad (pbuh)’s time and sect and sub-sects in Islam have come much later. Few of the Sayedna’s family members in Bombay pray only Idd namaz with Sunni Muslims in open Azad maidan. But otherwise they do not offer daily namaz in other Muslim masjid.
I know two Imams of Muslim masjids in Bombay namely Sayyed Saheb and Maulana Naqi Saheb who come to my house on every Wednesday to discuss matter of their Khutba to be delivered on the next Friday. We jointly decide the topic like ‘Muslims and modern education, Islam and poverty, Islam and terrorism, Islam and miracles etc. They spend lot of time in referring books on Islam from my library and preparing the subject matter. After understanding themselves they enlighten other Muslims which I personally feel is a good practice especially on every Friday after prayers when people gather in large number.
Where as in Bohra masjids the Sayedna’s representative Amil does ‘Bayan’ (usual rhetoric) and ‘Purjosh matam’ after every prayer.



Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#27

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:12 am

Muslim First wrote:Br. Mubarak

AS

Your statement:
The first person that Mola Ali (a.s.) saw after his birth was Aaka Rasoolallah (s.a.). Ali (a.s.) offered his ‘salam’ to Rasoolallah (s.a.) and asked him what to recite? “Whatever you wish”, replied Prophet (pbuh). Then Ali (a.s.) recited all ‘Sahifa’s’/books that were sent on all Prophets - Adam (a.s.), Noah (a.s.), Ibrahim (a.s.), etc; Ali (a.s.) also recited Jaboor, Taurat, Injeel and full Quran.
Let us not get carried away with inaccurate, boastful, worshipful praise of Hz. Ali RA.

Just born child does not speak. Qur'an was not revealed long after Hz Ali was born and for almost 23 years to Prophet SAW. If Hz Ali was able to recite Qur'an completely then there was no need for Prophet SAW. And how many hours Prophet sat with infant ali RA to listen to "all ‘Sahifa’s’/books that were sent on all Prophets - Adam (a.s.), Noah (a.s.), Ibrahim (a.s.), etc; Ali (a.s.) also recited Jaboor, Taurat, Injeel and full Quran"?

Please remember this is a forum where people use their head. Save your lectures for Sabak sessions for gullible Bohras.

Wasalaam

Prophet Eesa (Christ) (a.s.) not only did conversation immediately after his birth but also claimed that he has been sent with holy book.

As you say, Quran was revealed for twenty-three years, on different dates and years, then why you celebrate revelation only on Laylatul-Qadra and not on all the dates of its actual revelation?
Quran was fully present but was revealed in pieces as per time required. To reveal holy book to commoners is the duty of Prophet and not that of his deputy thus Prophet was needed to reveal the holy book.

Dr. Abbas Ali Alvi has once said in Moharram gathering, “Mola Ali (a.s.) ke Quran padhne ka aalam yeh tha ki ghode (horse) ki eik rakab per pair (leg) rakhte aur Quran shuroo karte aur doosri rakab per pair (leg) aur Quran khatam karte.”



Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#28

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:14 am

accountability wrote:Mubarak: these are the tales, that are repeated in waaz and without any genuine refrence, you referred a book Ahsanul Kasas, I could not find that book or the author of the book anywhere.

I think it is very dishonest on individual's part to quote without verifying the contents. I think you do believe in what you just posted, that is also very wrong, because you are believing in something which is not true.

Word Ahsanul Kasas is mention in quran in surah yousuf, Quraan 25:63 ! 5, but nothing close to your story.

Dear Brother Mr. Accountability,

Book “Ahsanul Kasas”, is a thickly bounded book in blue colour cover and was authored by Sheikh Ahmed Ali Raj sahib and you can get it from three different locations -
1) Mr. Lukman Ali Raj,
66, Dr. Zakir Hussain Marg,
Boharawadi,
Udaipur (313001),
Rajasthan,
India

2) Mr. Imadudeen Attarwala,
Gulistan Perfumers,
Pardha Mansion,
Shaukat Ali Road, J.J. Corner,
Mumbai – 03,
Maharashtra,
India

3) Prof. Mehdi Hasan Inayat Ali,
188, Guruwar Road,
Malegaon,
(Nasik – (423203))
Maharashtra,
India



Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#29

Unread post by Mubarak » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:23 am

Muslim First wrote:Dear respected Aalim Brother Mubarak

Thank you for your post of Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:01 am, where you eluded those prayers of billion Muslims may be Haraam.

I pray in a Sunni Masjid in USA where about 300 people attend Jumma prayer. These people come from at least 25 countries and I see people holding hands on their navel, below navel, above navel, on the chest, left of the chest above their heart and on the side (either they are shia or from one of Sunni madhab). Regardless of their way of prayer they have answered Adahn and have come to worship Allah SWT. According to your reasoning their prayers are in vain because they are not Dawoodi Bohras.

Let me just give you my thoughts of 73 tribes or sects.

I believe 73 sects or 72 virgins or 120,000 prophets are just figurative numbers. Sects are not fixed at 73. If you count sects within shia would exceed 73. So it is just figurative way of saying those who follow Prophet SAW in best way and do not commit SHIRK will be close to Prophet SAW.

I have one simple question for you. Historically Imam Ismail died before Imam Jaafar. How did he become Imam if he died before his father? I want simple answer not fairytales like mock funerals etc. etc. In case Imam Jaafar was trying to hide his son then where did Imam Ismail spend time? There must be witnesses that they saw him here and there.

Wasalaam

Imam Ismail (a.s.) bin Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.) died in the life of Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.) and his son Molana Imam Mohammed Shakir (a.s.) bin Imam Ismail (a.s.) bin Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.) bin Imam Bakir (a.s.) bin Imam Ali (a.s.) bin Imam Hussain (a.s.) bin Molana Ali Ameer Al Mumineen (a.s.) became the Imam though his grandfather Molana Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.) was still alive.

Same like Imam Kezar (a.s.) bin Molana Ismail (a.s.) bin Prophet Ibrahim Khalilullah (a.s.) - Molana Ismail (a.s.) bin Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) died in the life of Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.), and his son Molana Imam Kezar (a.s.) became the Imam though his grandfather Prophet Ibrahim (a.s.) was still alive.

Same like Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) ibn Abdullah (a.s.) – Molana Abdullah (a.s.) died in the life of Molana Abdul Muttalib (a.s.), and his son Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) was the appointee.

Same like Imam Finhaas (a.s.) ibn Molana Haroon (a.s.) – Molana Haroon died in the life of Prophet Moosa (a.s.) but his son Molana Finhaas (a.s.) became the Imam though Molana Prophet Moosa (a.s.) was still alive.

Same like Imam Shees (a.s.) ibn Molana Habeel (a.s.) ibn Prophet Aadam (a.s.) – Molana Habeel (a.s.) died in the life of Prophet Aadam (a.s.), and his son Molana Shees became the Imam though his grandfather Prophet Aadam (a.s.) was still alive.



Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Mola Ali (a.s.)

#30

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:23 am

.
Imam Ismail (a.s.) bin Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.) died in the life of Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.)
So why Imam Ismaiil RA is called Imam. Was he Nassed Imam while his father was alive or Ismail RA was just eldest son of Imam as in present Bohra language just a Shahzada.

Did Imam Jafar RA pass a Naas on his granson or next son in line whic I believe was named Muhammad?

Wasalaam