Relevance of Karbala

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S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Relevance of Karbala

#1

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:55 am

Martyrdom of Imam Husain and its relevance in the prevailing situation in the Dawoodi Bohra Community - Part I

The month of Moharram is fast approaching, a month of great signification in the Islamic history. We Dawoodi Bohras being a sect of Muslims and more so as sub-sect of Shia Muslims were observing first ten days of Moharram with great solemnity, though not so now. Since last 25 years we celebrate instead of commemorating Moharram calling it “Ashra Mubarak” like Idd Mubarak.
Our Dawoodi Bohra Community which had lived in peace and harmony for more than 800 years has been in great turmoil since last almost 100 years. There is a gradual deviation in our faith and practices. There is also slow degeneration of our culture. One priestly princely family and a small coterie around it is prospering economically, where as a large section of our society is struggling to meet two ends. It is because we as slaves are ruled and subjected by Sultan and Shahzadas who are functioning on the pattern of Umayyads claiming to be the true followers of Islam and Ahle-bayt.
The tragedy of Karbala is the most significant chapter in annals of Islamic history. Its proper understanding will help us fight fearlessly against injustice and tyranny now prevailing in our community. It is not possible to learn any lesson and derive benefits from the tragedy of Karbala if one remains ignorant of the circumstances responsible for this great tragedy.
Unfortunately our vaizeen and Zakireen spend all their time and energy in exaggerated description of how each martyr of Karbala suffered the thrust and hunger, how each one was killed and by whom. They do not bother to enlighten us why this tragedy happened and what were the factors responsible for it. More important is to know the reasons why so many people of the House of the Holy Prophet had to scarify their lives in Karbala.
Following write-up is based on the historical records in English version of books by Maulana Shibli Naumani, Maulana Abul-Aala Maudidi, Taha Husan and Khuwaja Hasan Nizami.
Unlike the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and Hazrat Ali (a.s.) Imam Husain and his companions in Karbala were not confronting non-Muslims (Kuffar, unbelievers); they were confronting Muslims, same Muslims who would join them in prayers and stand behind Imam Husain as he led the prayer. These very Muslims when mislead and incited by their tyrant rulers did not deter from carrying out the most atrocious orders to cut off the heads and trample the bodies of the members of the House of their Prophet.
The recorded Islamic history shows that the ground for this tragedy was laid down in the beginning of Islam itself. At the advent of Islam in Mecca the uncivilized tribal society was emerging as an international trade and finance center. This change was causing sharp social contradictions. At such time Islam came as a radical revolution to restructure the society with imposition of ethics and morality, social and economic justice, laid great emphasis on equitable distribution of wealth and equal rights. Islam came as a liberative religion to Arabs and non-Arabs. The Kuffar (unbelievers) of Mecca had powerful vested interests in maintaining the exploitive system then prevailing and hence they opposed Islam with all the might at their command. They wanted uninterrupted and unchallenged accumulation of wealth to enjoy all comforts of life at the cost of underprivileged class. They felt great danger in Islam which advocated fair distribution of their wealth among poor and needy and treat them as equal.
The tribal chief Abu Sufian and his associates became great enemy of the Prophet Mohammad. They even plotted to kill him. But when failed they embraced Islam. But their hearts did not change. Their ambition to exploit and rule people did not change.
Soon after the demise of the Holy Prophet, controversies of succession, share in power by different tribes, clans and regional groups erupted. The 30 years period of Caliphate was full of turmoil, violence and civil wars. Out of four rightful Caliphs three were killed and thousand of lives were lost in this period.
Again in this period conquests brought huge amount of wealth and also created new power equations.
The period of third Caliph Hazrat Usman was of the defining period. There were several reasons of people’s dislike of and opposition to Hazrat Usman. The few relevant ones can be listed as follows:-
1) He favoured his relatives and distributed huge wealth from public treasury among them. Like he gave away fifteen thousand Dirham to Marwan-bin-Al-Hakam his secretary and fifty thousand dirham to Abdulla-bin-Saad, his nephew. He distributed money so generously among his near and dear ones that he was called “Usman Gani” (the Generous Usman).
2) He made selfish and evil-minded man, Marwan-bin-Al-Hakim his secretary.
3) He appointed his nephew, Abdullah-bin-Saad, governor (Amil) of Egypt knowing fully well that he was a murderer, arrogant and mischief-maker, who created mischief which ultimately caused Hazrat Usman’s death.
4) He prayed four rakats of Qasar namaz at Mana while going for Hajj which was contrary to the practice of the Holy Prophet.
5) He lost the Mohre-Nabuwwat (a ring of the Holy Prophet which had his seal on it, to be put on official documents).
6) He gave absolutely free hand to Syrian governor, Moavia son of a father like Abu-Sufian who was staunch enemy of the Holy Prophet and mother like Hind, who went in the battlefield of Badar removed the heart of Hazrat Hamza from his dead body and chewed it up. Going against the basic principle of simplicity of Islam Mavia built splendid palaces, his own army and started a life of luxury and rolled backed to a life of Jahiliyah existed before Islam. He made people’s life miserable.
6) One of the Prophet’s most trusted companions, Hazrat Abuzar-Gaffari was very critical of Moavia’s un-Islamic life style. He used to recite certain chapters of Qura’n openly in Amir Moavia’s court and used to warn Movia in public about his wrong-doings. Hazrat Usman made a grave mistake and called him back. He then sent Hazrat Abuzar-Gaffari to a deserted place where he died in utter poverty. Thus the people in Arabia in general got disgusted with Hazrat Usman’s policies. People from Egyp, Koofa, Basara etc. started agitating against him. He some how pacified them by tendering a public apology.
But when the group from Egypt was returning from Medina they met a person who was carrying a letter with Hazrat Usman’s seal to the governor of Egypt stating that when these rebellions return to Egypt punish them severely and killed them. The furious Egyptians came back to Medina to get an explanation from the Caliph and then Hazrat Usman realized that the Mohre-Nubuwat was stolen by non other than his cunning and mischievous secretary Marwan and a forged letter was sent by Marwan. The people were further enraged when they found that Caliph was not able to protect his seal. So ultimately he was killed most brutally.
The fourth caliph Hazrat Ali-bin-Abi-Talib did his best to protect Islam from the deviators. But the governor of Syria, Mavia by then had become so arrogant that he refused to accept Hazrat Ali as caliph and claimed caliphate for himself. He engaged Hazrat Ali in war in most trouble time. After the martyrdom of Hazrat Ali, he became Amir by entering into a treaty with Imam Hasan. He succeeded in attracting large number of people by fear and favour. He used all those tactics of terror and appeasement which a usurper uses to legitimize his rule and to eliminate the challenges. Amir Mavia spent extravagant amount from public collections in establishing his empire and decorating his palaces and darbars. Then he most proudly invited the people to Damascus in order to impress them by show of his superiority of resources. Amir Mavia was not only extravagant but he appointed his governors who also were extravagant, greedy and dictators. Finally as Maulana Maudidi says Amir Movia converted Khilafat (Caliphate) into Mulukiyat (Monarchy), nailing down the revolutionary mission of Islam. Syria and Damascus were far away from Islamic center in Medina and closer to Roman Empire. So Mavia followed the Roman imperial ways.
Further more Amir Mavia had promised in the treaty with Imam Hasan that after him the next caliph will be appointed by the Muslim umma as per Islamic tradition by consultation (Shura). But once in absolute power Amir Mavia disregarded and betrayed his promise. He appointed his debauched son Yazid as his successor in order to retain caliphate in Umayyad dynasty. Thus Amir Mavia obliterated the system of consultation and democracy that Islam had established. Amir Mavia had deviated from Islamic practices in many ways but this came as great shock to the true followers of Islam. Though out of fear majority had bowed down before the orders of Amir Mavia and had given oath of allegiance to Yazid but few like Husain ibne Ali, Abdullah ibne Umar (son of second caliph), Abdullah ibne Zubair and Abdur Rehman bin Abu Bakar refused.
Imam Husain was brought up in the care and company of the Holy Prophet, his daughter Fatima and Ali bin Abi Talib had lived Islam every moment of his life. He had actively participated in the battle-fields in the early days of Islam as Islamic revolutionary.
Where as Yazid was born and brought up as prince in palace full of luxuries and comfort of life. He was young deviant and inexperienced man who had not participated in the struggle of Islam and faced any hardship. He had number of slaves and servants around him who used obey his orders. Over protection made him obstinate, arrogant and rash. He had no Islamic education and guidance. Yazid only learnt to command and demand absolute submission. The historians without exception attest that he spent most of his life in drinking, gambling, hunting and womanizing. Yazid was not serious in attending Islamic prayers and often made fun of Islamic teachings in his speeches.
The coronation of such a bad character as caliph of Islamic state opened up the flood-gates of corruption and drifted the Muslim umma from Islamic Shari’ah.
Imam Husain was regarded very high due to his upbringing with the Holy Prophet, Fatima and Ali and because of his high religious and social morals. His personality was of extraordinary importance in Arab and non-Arab society of his time. The oath of loyalty (bay’at) by Husain was a must for Yazid to legitimize his appointment as caliph of Islamic state. Therefore Yazid used all means to pressurized Imam Husain to give the pledge. But Imam Husain could not support the evil tyranny and religious social and economical corruption by pledging loyalty to a debauch ruler.
This resulted into the revolt against tyranny by the members of the house of the Holy Prophet and tragedy of Karbala.
The factors responsible for the tragedy of Karbala have many similarity with the prevailing situation in our Dawoodi Bohra Community which will be discussed in next part.



khidmatguzar
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:01 am

#2

Unread post by khidmatguzar » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:15 am

good reporting, also we have been hearing the same with detailed narration in our wahej to compare please submit audio in dawat ni Jabaan



accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

#3

Unread post by accountability » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:30 pm

Good post, brother insaf.

Since last many years, the waiz has become a rhetoric. History and detailed historical description of events of karbala are not narrated at all. It starts with some bayan, in the middle two or three days it has syedna saheb's waaz recording or relay, in the end a very short description of imam hussain's shahadat and matam for half an hour. That is all.

Even when the history was described in waaz, it was a very different version. Half of description was not in accordanace with prevailing history. But last ten years, you cannot show one waaz, which did describe the history or message of karbala. can you please describe the message of karbala.



ShiaNumberOne
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Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:01 am

#4

Unread post by ShiaNumberOne » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:15 pm

Great post S. Insaf



Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

#5

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:52 pm

Excellent timely post.



Al Zulfiqar
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

#6

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:02 pm

Thank you, Bhai Insaf for this post.

I have given up on our Moharram vaezes long ago. All they contain is B.S. Imaginary moajizas, false praise and sycophancy to the syedna and his family, hatred and insults against 'dawaat na dushman', lies and slander. even the pathetic little bayan they do about moharram is full of lies, exaggerations and half-truths. the entire exercise is very sinister and elaborately designed to a. increase the syedna's influence on yr minds and pockets, b. fool you and brainwash you about his greatness and thus help tighten their grip on yr immature mind and prevent you from straying, c. finally to milk the community to the last drop and enrich themselves at your expense.

when the person who is lecturing you on moharram is himself an ignorant fool and sycophant, what are you going to learn from him? its like one idiot delivering sermons to an audience of another few thousand idiots.. !!

i prefer attending the isnashari markaz in moharram, where they impart more knowledge in 50 mins which you would not get in a lifetime of listening to crap in our masjids. the philosophy of kerbala, the message of islam, the deep spiritual knowledge of our leaders from history, all this and much more, delivered in humility, without any written notes, no demands for money, the discipline and the genuine love and observance of islam.

our syedna and his family are extortionists and merchants of islam, purveyors of falsehood and dishonesty, hypocrites and cold hearted mercenaries, who have only made deen a convenient tool to extract money, fool and loot you and push you more into darkness.



East Africawalla
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:01 am

#7

Unread post by East Africawalla » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:25 pm

a suggestion to you Zul , why don't you join the Ishnasheris if their Vaez etc is so great



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

#8

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:58 pm

East Africawalla wrote:a suggestion to you Zul , why don't you join the Ishnasheris if their Vaez etc is so great
and why dont u join the reformists considering the great amounts of time u spend on this board? :shock:

shudnt u be in africa alongwith the other wildebeests since u are an east african? the hungry white lions are waiting for u there, not over here....



like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

#9

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:45 am

East Africawalla wrote:a suggestion to you Zul , why don't you join the Ishnasheris if their Vaez etc is so great
A convenient way to run away from truth!!!



like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

#10

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:41 am

The hype of moharram and ashura is unwanted, It is waste of time, money and energy. Having said that, I by no means would want to discount the supreme sacrifice made by Imam Hussain.

Observing one minute silence on the day of ashura is more appropriate in my view.



hc
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:01 am

#11

Unread post by hc » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:36 am

Thank you, Bhai Insaf for this post. Waiting for Part-II



Al Zulfiqar
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

#12

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:35 pm

kya bhagi gayo east african? bolti bandh thai gayi? whenever cornered he runs like a coward with his tail between his legs..

i hope he has run to east africa this time like an obedient abde of elephant hunter syedna and is busy attacking the khaaras mithaas to drown his sorrows on the shahadat of imam hussain.



S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

#13

Unread post by S. Insaf » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:39 am

Martyrdom of Imam Husain and its relevance in the prevailing situation in the Dawoodi Bohra Community - Part II

Dais: Almost all 50 Dawoodi Bohra Dais prior to 51st Dai, Sayedna Taher Saifuddin were poor and heavily indebted as they were petty traders or hawkers and had no other source of income. So much so that in 1892 49th Dai Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin (grandfather of Sayedna Taher Saifuddin) had to borrow money from one of his Amil Shaikh Abdul Tayyeb, and two Hindu Marwaris. On non-payment by the Sayedna the Amil filed a suit no. 285 of 1892 against the Sayedna and tried to put him in Jail to recover his Rs. 50,000 with 4000 interest given to Sayedna as returnable loan on simple interest. Earlier Dais used to stay in their small houses owned by them or in a simple devri provided by the Jamat. There was no religious hierarchy for Dais like it was there for Fatimi Imam that is one Imam succeeding to another Imam by inheritance. Any ordinary Bohra who was the most learned and was known for his simplicity, piety and just conduct was chosen and raised to the office of Dai, not by inheritance not by election but by Nass on his successor inspired by Imam and publicly declared in Jamat meeting by Dai.
Looking at the plight of the Dawat and the Dai, the Bohra philanthropist, Sir Adamji Peerbhoy Rafiuddin organized a conference on 9th March 1899 at Dhoraji and made it obligatory for all Amils to remit 5% of their collection towards the Dai to carry on Dawat affairs. Earlier the entire amount (the salary paid to Amil by local Jamat and his personal income was retained by the Amils). Note it was Amils’ duty to take care of Dai and Dawat and not of common Bohras.

Local Jamats: Prior to 51st Dai, Dawoodi Bohras and their local Jamats were functioning independently without any interference from Dai or his family members. Jamats used to bear the expenses of Amil, Moallims (madressa teachers), maintenance of Masjids, Mazars, Jamatkhanas, Musafarkhanas etc.
The concept of local Dawoodi Bohra Jamats in Dawat was based on the Islamic principle of Shura (Consultation). It was difficult for the Dai at the centre (with his limited resources) to asses the local situation and requirement everywhere for community welfare. The Local Amil or Mulla and Jamat members were chosen by and were in touch with the local members and hence could know and plan programs for distribution of Zakat Fitra money, establishing madrassas and appointment of teachers, taking up repairing and maintenance of the local properties of the community accordingly with mutual consultation. The wealthy businessman of the community built masjids, Jamatkhnas, musafirkhanas schools and hospitals in the memory of their elders in the memory of their elders and dedicated to the community. They established scholarship trusts and hostels for students. They also established banks, credit co-operative societies and bachat yojnas to help poor Bohras in business.

Turning Dawat in to Monarchy and enslaving the entire community: But as soon as 51st Dai Sayedna Taher Saifuddin came on the seat of Dawat things in the community started going in a way it had gone during Hazrat Usma and Amir Moaviah times. The emphasis from community welfare was suddenly shifted to the welfare of Dai’s family. Sayedna Taher Saifuddin was a man with worldly ambitions so after becoming Dai he left Surat and came down to India’s commercial capital, Bombay. He misused the kind efforts made by Sir Adamji Peerbhoy Rafiuddin to financially help Dai and Dawat and started monopolizing all powers and wealth of the community in his hand completely throttling the freedom and the interest of the local Jamats and Bohras. He put all his energy and community resources in establishing his own financial empire crushing all welfare activities by individual Bohras and by forcible usurping the community’s properties.
Moving on the footsteps of Amir Moaviah first he took hold of Badri Mahal by fraud and then on Peerbhoy Palace and converted it into Saifee Mahal. He gave himself the title of Sultan, Sardar, His Holiness, Molanal-Mannan, Huzere-Aala etc., called his family as Royal family and his family members as Shahzada/Shazadis and his majlis as Darbar-e-Aali. He started acting like a monarch with pass time in hunting, lavish Ziyafats, Sajdat, Kadambosi, Vadhawni, making Bohras stand around him with folded hands like slaves while he is eating or praying, taking pride in meetings with corrupt political leaders, organizing high-pitched tamashas, going round in Baggies and on elephants, impressing everyone by his superiour resources like Amir Moaviah and finally eliminating any one who opposed his anti-Islamic policies like Hazrat Usman did with Abuzar-Gaffari. Like Amir Moaviah he leashed a rein of terror in the community by inciting violent physical attacks, murdering Bohras in daylight, throwing out dead bodies of wel-wishers of Dai and Dawat. His opposition was not for succession but was against his repressive and exploitative policies. He made the lives of thousands of Bohras miserable by declaring Jamatkharij (excommunication) and inciting other followers against them He even made compulsory for all his followers to write themselves as “Abde-Sayedna/Amte-Sayedna” (slave male/female of Sayedna).

Degeneration from one Saifuddin to other Saifuddin: 43rd Dai Sayedna Abde-ali Saifuddin Saheb was a benevolent and progressive community leader who lived as Dai for just 20 years. But in short period his contribution for the welfare of the community is most commendable. 1780 was the period of Europeans arrival in India and changing scenario in the Indian Society. Abde-ali Saifuddin Saheb was a visionary and hence he paid maximum attention on education. He established “Saifee Daras” on the lines of Fatemide lodge in Egypt and tried lifting the community from age old derogative traditions. He banned the practice of matam in majalis and Jaman (community feasts). He made it compulsory for every one to take his permission (raza) before organizing Majlis, Nikah and other functions so that he can have check on their extravagant expenditure.

Second Saifuddin that is Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb completely misused the practice of Raza introduced by the first Saifuddin. He fixed the price for obtaining raza and made compulsory even for organizing Moharram majalis, Nikah, burial, Hajj and even performing daily namaz.

Sayedna Taher Saifuddin was a learned man with extraordinary power to manipulation and knew that the Dawoodi Bohras have much in common with other Muslims, like:-
1) Dawoodi Bohras have the same divine book Quran as their law-giver and the Bohra religious pillars are based on teachings of Quran.
2) Bohras believe in Hazrat Mohammad as their Prophet.
3) Bohras scrupulously follow the Islamic Shariah like namaz, roza, Hajj etc.
4) Their religious heroes are like the Holy Prophet, Hazrat Ali, Hazrat Fatema, Imam Hasan, Imam Husain and Imam Zainul Abedin etc. are all common Arabs.

Sayedna Taher Saifuddin also knew that the common Bohras only know to read Quran, some book of Bohra rituals and prayers, do charity, go for Hajj or Ziyarat and attend Urs and Moharram majalis. He knew that they have remained unaware and therefore not much affected by the past history and peculiar doctrines of Ismailism, which have some basic imbibed problems in it like:-

1) Ismailis also believe in the hidden meaning of Qur’an.
2) The Ismailism was a product of non-Arab society.
3) It had grown in the feudal slavish culture of Persia.
4) Initially the Ismaili Imams worked with religious-cum-political aim.
5) As they had to carry on their religious-cum-political mission in the most hostile political situation, they needed to function as an underground movement.
6) Therefore they developed a religious hierarchy of one Imam succeeding to another Imam by inheritance which was against the spirit of democratic Islam.

Till then Bohras knew that they differed from other Muslims only in dress code, starting Islamic months by the calendar rather than moon-sighting, food habits (eating from one thal), language etc. but in all other aspect they are as practicing Muslims as other Muslims are.
Earlier Dais never separated Bohras from other Muslims. There was no insistent on a peculiar dress code or appearance for Bohras. They had their regional variations. There was no objection to the Nikah performed by non-Bohra Qazis as it was a practice in especially in Deccan. There were no charges or harassment for Raza for Malis, Nikah or burial. There were no entry-passes (like Green, Yellow and Red Cards or Jamat E-Cards). Many Shias, Sunni Muslims and even Husaini Brahmin Hindus were welcome to Bohra masjids for Moharram vaiz and Tazia processions. There was no tradition of cursing first three Caliphs of Islam.
But Taher Saifuddin Saheb wrote a book “Zue-Nure-Haqqal-Mubin” highlighting the difference between Bohras and other Muslims. He also made the conditions of political nature of Misaq Nama applicable and forged Dai’s name along with Imam and then made Misaq for Dai compulsory. So much so that it was claimed that a Bohra becomes Dawoodi Bohra only after giving Misaq to Dai.
There were dissidents during earlier Dais 18th, 26th, 28th, 40th and 49th. But they were on the question of succession. But the dissidence that took place during Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb was against his repressive policies and absolute control over the community.Like Hazrat Usman Sayedna Taher Saifuddin started a practice of favouring his own family members and near and dear ones.
Like Amir Maviayah Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb abolished the Jamat system and their participation in the decision-making throttling their independence completely. Like Hazrat Usman and Amir Moviayah he appointed selfish and evil-minded men as his Amils and gave them free hand to ruthlessly rule over community and misuse community’s properties and funds.
He made any Bohras Shaikh without any test so profusely that the degree, merit and title lost its value and hence he abolished the class of learned ulemas and Mashaikhs from the community. When opposition to his repressive and exploitative policies increased he introduced Tanzeem Committees, Scouts and Anjumans by appointing most notorious and indifferent elements as their members in order to control the opposition.
(In Part III we will discuss the further deviations and innovations in Islam and the Dawoodi Bohra tradition brought about by the present Dai.)



Muslim First
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#14

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:48 pm

Karbala’: Lessons for the Muslim Ummah
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Sate ... 9503546844



Muslim First
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#15

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:25 pm




Al-Muizz
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:01 am

#16

Unread post by Al-Muizz » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:07 pm

Wow!

I must say this posting is the ultimate irony. Imam Husayn A.S. was martyred because another person known as Yezid (LA) claimed the religious authority of the Ummah. Now, the irony is the reformists, who by the way, according to Engineers own words, has nothing to do with the legitimacy of Syedna, but the financial goings of the Daawat, are now in the process of challenging the rights of the Dai the very same way Yezid (LA) did with Husayn A.S.!

You fellas are walking a very thin hairy line remember what transpired in Kerbela?



Al Zulfiqar
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

#17

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:00 pm

muizz, yr fellow retard gb has finally confessed that he is an ignorant fool and only syedna knows the answers. so pls let yr syedna come to this forum to argue his case from now on. meanwhile we do not want to waste time with 2 bit intellectual lightweights like u.



Al-Muizz
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:01 am

#18

Unread post by Al-Muizz » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:58 am

TSK TSK TSK, AZ, you Camel smoking Wahabi wannabe......temper, temper, temper, all this Prozac induced delusions in your wafer thin brain is not good for ya, hermano!

You still have not answered my question, or are you still recovering from the joint you just smoked? That's why they teach us in school not to do drugs...it really messes up feeble brains like AZs!!!!!LESSON FROM AZ, STAY AWAY FROM DRUGS! SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO AZ???
Al Zulfiqar wrote:muizz, yr fellow retard gb has finally confessed that he is an ignorant fool and only syedna knows the answers. so pls let yr syedna come to this forum to argue his case from now on. meanwhile we do not want to waste time with 2 bit intellectual lightweights like u.



GreatBarrier
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:52 pm

#19

Unread post by GreatBarrier » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:09 pm

It is quite disapointing that Saifudin Insaf in his web publication has not researched the view points raised in the several threads that I and others have contributed when writing his 2 articles

The article is regurgitating historical information drifts into using that as a basis of his argument against the practises of the thousands who attend Muharam as practised by majority the Bohras.

Mainstream bohras do not "joyously" celebrate the events as we do Idd.
Mubaraks literal meaning is Blessed...and Ashura Mubarak literally translates to "Blessed Ashura" . Please do not manipulate words and analyse it out of context to use it to further the objective to criticise Bohras.

If it was a happy occasion we would have gone further and added (God forbid and forgive since I am only trying to explain the extreme point to make my case) Eid-ul Ashura Mubarak ! Please refer to Arabic experts for further clarification.

Allong the article what relevance has the Karabal event got with the revenue collection methods of Bohras ...one is a martyrdom the other is community financial operations. Regardsless whether financial operations are right or wrong by mixing the maters do not resolve or address the 2 issues.

Saifudin claims he is "us" but he cannot use "we" to describe Bohras..I would rather he states "they"...since he is not self criticising!

The only conclusion is that SI is using Karabala event for publicity to get people to read his article which in stealth diverts into something else where this forum is aiming to achieve. In my opinion this article intent and purpose is an example of another hypocracy which Progressives claim they are opposing Orthodx..by using smokes and mirrors and trapping readers .



porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

#20

Unread post by porus » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:22 am

I consider the use of the word Mubarak with Ashura grossly inappropriate.

The day commemorates an unimaginable targedy inflicted upon Imam Husain, his family and his companions. As far as the Waiz is concerned, it is conducted with such pathos that blessings of Allah are never recounted.

What is clear is that Imam Husain himself described those days as the days of calamity (balaa in Arabic). He predicted "Wasalna al-maqaam qarbun balaa" (We have reached a place close to calamity)

And we recount "balaa ni bani tu ajab Karbala, ke qaataa shaheedo na sukha gala"

On that day, blessings (barakaat) of Allah were not apparent but He put Ahlul Bayt and companions through a tortuous trial.

All we are left to do is to hope and pray that Allah showers his mercy on the martyrs.

And we recount " kaho 'shaheed' ke upar rahmatullah, kaho uske qatil ke upar laanatullah".

It is therefore right to invoke mercy and blessings on the Shuhada on this day, but not because the Day itself was blessed. It wasn't.

What is clear is that Ashura is a 'blessing' for those who get a chance to catch the wayward Bohras for monetary contributions. I think that the day is too solemn for us to engage in this sort of activity.

I suggest Ashura should stand alone as a word connoting Karbala's tragedy. And the word Mubaraka should not be associated with it. In the old days, we used to call it simply "Yawm-e-Ashura".

I have observed people greeting one another with the phrase "Ashura Mubarak". This is also unworthy of the occasion. Mubarak in a greeting connotes a joyous invocation of blessings on those we greet. Ashura is not such an occasion. It is a solemn commemoration.



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

#21

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:26 am

great post porus. a fitting reply to the brain dead and brain washed.



Humsafar
Posts: 2489
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#22

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:55 am

Thank you Porus for weighing in with your opinion. But I'm sure GB will find some way to wiggle out of this too. GB asks:
Allong the article what relevance has the Karabal event got with the revenue collection methods of Bohras...
Well, Karbala happened because of Yazid who was a corrupt, profligate and irresponsible ruler. Insaf bhai in his article is trying to draw a parallel between the corruption of Yazid's regime and the corruption of the present-day dawat.

It is good to know that you have an insight into the "intent and purpose and hypocrisy" of Progressive claims, but have you wondered what is the intent and purpose of your coming to this Forum? Isn't it to defend the indefensible? Your every question and comment has been answered and presented with cogent argument, and what has been your response? Evasion. When you start a discussion then have the honesty and courage to continue it. Evasion is a form of hypocrisy.



Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

#23

Unread post by Aarif » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:22 pm

Br. Porus,

GRT post... I completely agree with you on this...



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#24

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:05 pm

A poetic version of Ashura:

The Day the Skies Wept Blood
The tenth dawn of Islam's new year, Seventy-two of the
bravest who had nothing to fear,
Came out to battle for our pride,
Knowing that the journey to Heaven would be their very
next ride.

On the blistering sands, under the scorching sun,
Stood the mighty Hussein, a soldier second to none,
With the fragrance of musk, it had to be said,
The skies of Karbala were already turning red.

Every ally wanted the honor of being first,
To drink the honey of paradise and quench their
thirst,
As each one's body fell on the sand and mud,
It was Ashura, the day the skies wept blood.

A marriage in the tent during this grieving hour,
Abdullah knew that the time was not far,
In the attire of a groom, He set out to fight,
Realizing the loss, Sakina cried throughout that
night.

Abbas did not even drink a sip from the river,
But was hit by arrows from the trees' rear,
Hussein's final support ascended to the heavens,
It was now only Hussein and those inhumane devils.

But, Ali Akbar, the very valiant youngster the world
has seen,
Was hit in the heart during the pinnacle of His teens,
The face of the Prophet (SA) with blood was smeared,
Hussein's tears completely drenched His beard.

Asgar, the courageous six month old prince,
Fought for Islam's pride without hesitance,
Until that heartless satan let his arrow fly,
Young Ali Asgar's blood was taken by the sky.

Hussein ibn Ali, the Noble Son, and The Greatest
Martyr,
Stood ready to fight with absolutely no fear,
Until a teary eyed Jibrael descended from the Heavens,
Allah's wish is Your sacrifice Oh Highborn Eminence.

Hussein happily welcomed Allah's Missive,
Bowed down to Sajdah for the future billions,
Zainab, cried aloud at the sight of Her mind's eye,
Upon witnessing Her imperial brother peacefully die.

Tears roll down my cheeks as I pen these verses,
Remembering the pain of Hussein and His masses,
But if it wasn't for Hussein we wouldn't be where we are,
We wouldn't be Mumineens.



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

#25

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:35 pm

gleanings from the thoughts of some notables on the significance and relevance of the events of kerbala on ashura....

Gleanings on Ashara:

*****
Black-robed, bare-footed, with dim eyes that rain
Wild tears in memory of thy woeful plight.
And hands that in blind, rhythmic anguish smite
Their blood-stained bosoms, to sad refrain
From the old haunting legion of thy pain,
Thy votaries mourn thee through the tragic night
With mystic dirge and melancholy rite.
Crying to thee Husain! Ya Husain!
Why do thy myriad lovers so lament?
Sweet saint, is not thy matchless martyrhood
The living banner and brave covenant
Of the high creed thy prophet did proclaim,
Bequeathing for the world's beautitude
Thy enduring loveliness of Allah's name!
-- Sarojini Naidu

*****
But for the sacrifices of the great martyrs, the world would have
remained unaquainted with the values of morality, religion and
truth. The world owes those martyrs great debt of gratitude, who
preferred death to dishonour. Imam Husain belongs to the class of
martyrs who laid down their lives in the service of humanity. We
should actualise his memory in our own conduct and we should learn
a lesson from his sacrifice.
-- Dastoor Kaikhusro Mahyar Kator

*****
Quat-le Husain asl mein marg-e-Yazeed hai
Islam zinda hota hai har Kerbala ke baad.
-- Moulana Mohammed Ali "Jauhar"

*****
In a distant age and climate the tragic scene of the death of
Husain will awaken the sympathy of the coldest reader
-- Gibbon

*****
The sacrifice that Imam Husain gave in the desert of Kerbala is an
example to all of us, giving us impetus and instruction to do our
bit when circumstances oblige us to face evil against truth.
Imam Husain with his 72 followers achieved everlasting victory
in his defeat which it is impossible for any great force to
acquire at any cost. Imam Husain proved to the world for all times
that numbers do not count when the real spirit is in action with a
definite purpose and determination.
-- Sir Byramjee Jeejeebhoy

*****
The kerbala tragedy is a historical event of human martyrdom of such
importance that it cannot be forgotton.It shall continue to influence
the lives of billions of men and women of the world throughout
the ages.
-- Dr. Rajendra Prasad

*****
There is no house-hold in the world which presented so many martyrs
as Husain's. The number of his companions counted, his might
measured, his fame assessed, and his family appraised, he stands
unique in history of the world. Being a martyr, the son of a
martyr, and the father of martyrs, indeed, he is the Lord of Martyrs.
-- Abbas Mohammed al-Aqquad

*****
Let the whole world then join in common love and reverence to
glorify the name of this perfect man and let the anniversary of this
grandest and sublimest event in history be fittingly celeberated.
As to keep green the commemoration of this great sacrifice is to
water the roots of love and peace, truth and honesty, liberty and
fidelity amongst the entire humanity.
-- Dastoor Kaikhusro Mahyar Kator

*****
Such deeds should be regarded as, and they really are, the common
heritage of all mankind. Just as a rose is a rose, whether in Arabia
of in ancient Egypt, similarly such great and noble sacrifices are
things of which all mankind, for all times, may be equally proud.
-- Pandit Sunder Lall.

*****
If ignorant prejudice does not blur our vision, we cannot fail to
appreciate, whatever religion we may profess, the sacrifice of the
martyrs of Kerbala in the cause of Truth and Justice, for the
appeal of Truth and Justice is universal, it is not bounded by
geographical or creedal limitations.
-- Pandit B.N.Sarga

*****
One of the significant fact of history is the great and abiding
influence of the tragedy of Kerbala on the human world. Strange
that through these long centuries this powerful impress should
have influenced hundreds and millions and drawn forth the sympathy
of vast numbers of others; and yet it is not strange, for
sacrifice in a cause has always moved mankind and the purer the
sacrifice and the nobler the ideal the further it goes echoing
through the corridors of time and affecting the lives of men and
women. It is inevitable that a tragedy should arouse sorrowful
feelings. Still, out of that sorrow itself comes a feeling of
truimph - the victory of the human will over the most adverse
circumstances. And thus out of sorrow and defeat come joy and
victory. and it is well that we remember this and take inspiration
from it
-- Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru

*****

for all the pathos and lament which the syedna creates on ashura, where is the discourse on the underlying principles and motivation of imam hussain? just recounting in great detail of how he was martyred and the atrocities of his opponents is a deliberate glossing over the real reasons for the tragedy. it is a cynical and sinister exercise to whip up passions but hiding the deep message of morality and integrity in the face of zulm, injustice and cruelty, extortion, loot and plunder and misuse of islam is a self-serving plan to keep awareness far away from a community which faithfully and innocently believes that the syedna is their saviour.



GreatBarrier
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:52 pm

#26

Unread post by GreatBarrier » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:25 pm

Mainstream bohras do not "joyously" celebrate the events as we do Idd.
Mubaraks literal meaning is Blessed...and Ashura Mubarak literally translates to "Blessed Ashura" . Please do not manipulate words and analyse it out of context to use it to further the objective to criticise Bohras.

If it was a happy occasion we would have gone further and added (God forbid and forgive since I am only trying to explain the extreme point to make my case) Eid-ul Ashura Mubarak ! Please refer to Arabic experts for further clarification.
I am still waiting for SI, AZ of H to respond directly to my statement above ?

Can you in plain language state whther the Orthodox and mainstream bohras celebrate Ashura and Muharam ? If you believe my assement of the word Mubarak is wrong say so and provide suitable counter explanation.



East Africawalla
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:01 am

#27

Unread post by East Africawalla » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:09 am

GB, Your explanation is totally correct.



Humsafar
Posts: 2489
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#28

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:49 am

GB, Nobody is suggesting that the orthodox "joyously" celebrate Moharrum. You've introduced the word "joyous" and nobody except you are obliged to deal with it. However, the word Mubarak and Ashra are contradiciton in terms. In plain English they do not go together literally or figuratively as Porus has explained. Also, the word and its meaning is just one aspect of it, what is more problematic is the actual practice of moharrum among the orthodox which in the last few years (decades) has acquired the colour and spirit of "celebration". First there is this great anticipation every year as to where Sayedna saheb is going for moharrum and every few years it is some "exotic" location such as Dubai, Houston, Colombo, Mombasa etc. which offers great shopping and sightseeing opportunities. What happens inside the masjid and during waez is by no means "celebrations" but what happens outside it during those 10 days definitely is. Foreign trips, shopping, sightseeing and good food and generally having a good time are some of the features that have come to be associated with Moharrum. And this certainly is "celebration" being promoted by the dawat. This goes against the spirit of moharrum which ought to be an occasion of solemn commemoration, introspection and soul searching.



S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

#29

Unread post by S. Insaf » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:07 am

Janam din Mubarak, Salgirah Mubarak and Milad Mubarak in English is wished as "Happy Birthday." I have not heard any one to say Happy Ashra or Happy Moharram, but in last few years I have seen Dawoodi Bohras wishing each other as "Bhai! Ashra Mubarak thai, Tamne bhi Mubarak thai".



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#30

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:09 pm

GreatBarrier wrote:Mubaraks literal meaning is Blessed...and Ashura Mubarak literally translates to "Blessed Ashura" . Please do not manipulate words and analyse it out of context to use it to further the objective to criticise Bohras.
Bro GB,

I request you to randomly ask 100 bohras what they mean by saying 'Ashura Mubarak' and Iam sure that not even 5% will come out with your interpretation of 'blessed' because for them the word mubarak means only joy although they very well know that Mohurrum is a month of grief. Just like 'Shahadat' means 'martyrdom' as well as 'witness' and in that case if Burhanudin saab gives witness in the court of law and announces that he gave 'shahadat' in the court, the bohras may then elevate him to the status of a shahid after his death.