Relevance of Karbala

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Hussain_KSA
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#31

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:00 am

Brother Ghulam Mohammed

Good post! please check your email.

Regards



GreatBarrier
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#32

Unread post by GreatBarrier » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:30 am

SI and GM thanks for your response, I will touch many angles in my counter response

I have not assumed that manay of Orthdoox are not ignorant and incompetent and majority follow blindly the next door neignbour which I classify as fanatism. This level of hysteria is common in all societies.

Regarding only small minority know the actual meaning could be true but how many words in Islam we use daily that we do so because culturally we tend to do so eg Mashallah and Inshallah are also used by non Muslims yet they do not believe in Allah, if they knew the ideological meaning do you think they would continue ?. I personally used those words well before I knew the literal meaning.

Once again the principles of calling Mubarak is not to make it joyous and its is plainly false to accuse Sayedna that he is propgating that Ashura be treated as a happy occasion. In the same context if a few Muslims blow themselves up and refer to Quran verses to justify their actions does not imply Islam or its founders are at fault and are aggressive. I hope you get the point !

I have an issue with SI's article where he tries to imply that Karbala event is being sabotaged and converted into a celebration. I have the second issue where he has generalised and included me into the group where he beleives I because of my loyalty to Sayedna am accused of misrepresenting Ashura. This false and incirrect, by saying Mubarak I mean blessed and many years before I knew the literal meaning I assumed it meant "fortunate that we have a Holy Day of Ashura when we can mourn Husain's martyyrdom and cleanse our sins" may be I am a more logical person than many others.

I would rather question the actions of those who go around and actually celebrate and in worldly terms "party" and please disclose if any examples exists and we can classify them to be wrong and attempt to correct them. Non of your references state that Bohras behave such as to discredit the day. If they perform actions that in your own view is in appropriate and should rather mourn and express more grief this is another topic. This will fall into a discussions around rituals, touches topics of what is prescribed in scriptures and how should an ideal Shia behave in Muharam and authenticity and relevance of those practises as they would have been prescribed after the death of Husain AS.In other words why would I take instructions from you to how to commemorate Ashura.

On a Easter reference Good Friday is a sorrowful day for Christias however they do call it Happy Easter Holidays and I do not see extreme objections that why people are mixing Good Friday with Easter Monday which is joyous as Christ rose to save the world and get upset when non-Christians greet Happy Easter when we leave work on Thursday.

In my view Bohras who were Indian subjects colonial bagage tend to relate Happy New Year, Merry Christmas etc to Eid Mubarak since thereafter assumed that Mubarak directly means Happy. Hence your misleading conclusion that to Bohras Mubarak=Happy and when we say Ashura Mubarak we mean Happy Ashura.

If you by your responses agree Mubarak technically means blessed what is wrong in correcting your article..that is your professional obligation and enhance your credibility as a learned scholar..let us not hold onto the position even when proved wrong....I think this site somtimes tends to turn into a debating stage where the most vocal and cheered is perceived as right...



East Africawalla
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#33

Unread post by East Africawalla » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:24 am

GB, you do go on

The relevance of calling Mubarak is its a blessed day when due to Husein's sacrifise Islam was saved.It is a joyous day and a mournful day because how Husein's life was sacrifised.



porus
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#34

Unread post by porus » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:12 am

GreatBarrier wrote: ..by saying Mubarak I mean blessed and many years before I knew the literal meaning I assumed it meant "fortunate that we have a Holy Day of Ashura when we can mourn Husain's martyyrdom and cleanse our sins".
`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

Yes, the greeting 'ashura mubarak' may mean, for you, 'a great opportunity to cleanse your sin'. But that is not what the word 'Mubarak' means.

It means that the day is/was blessed. This contradicts the whole tenor of the day when all marsiyas lament the day as calamitous and 'manhooz'.

Either you celebrate 'victory' of Imam Husain or commemorate his martyrdom. Celebration of Eid al Adha is Allah's grace on Nabi Ibrahim and Ismail. Grace of Allah on Shuhada at Karbala was absent. Only revisionist historical interpretation can describe the event as marked by Allah's grace.

Celebration is what Bohras do. Commemoration is best done is silence. Remembrance Day or Veteran's Day are commemorated with 'silence' for the memory of those who gave their lives in wars.

Crying for martyrs and rhythmic beating of breasts in tune with marsiya find no sanction in the Quran, nor in the main book of the Bohra fiqh, Daaimul Islam. And at least one Dai has banned the practice in the past.

By the way, the change from 'Ashura' to 'Ashara' is instructive. While Ashura refers to the day of the 10th Muharram, 'Ashara' refers to the 10 days. This is in keeping with reducing the significance of Ashura by maatam everywhere and everywhen. We can look forward to the time when the whole year will be described as 'mubaraka', such as 'sanaa mubaraka' or 'aamma mubaraka'.



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#35

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:32 am

GreatBarrier wrote:Once again the principles of calling Mubarak is not to make it joyous and its is plainly false to accuse Sayedna that he is propgating that Ashura be treated as a happy occasion.
If that is not the case then why are Mohurrum vayez mostly held in places with exotic locations and not in remote towns in India where there is sizeable population of bohras. If your argument is that bohras residing abroad get a chance to hear the vayez then Its cheaper for bohras from foreign countries to visit India rather then Indian bohras visiting foreign countries. Doesnt that make a deeper hole in Indian bohras pockets then the ones staying abroad. The majority who want to flock for these vayez are the ones who want to have a chance of visiting different countries for excursion (joyous=Mubarak) rather then attend a solemn event. No wonder we see bohras waiting anxiously for the destined venue whispering amongst themselves "Aa waqt kai navi jagya jova malse".
GreatBarrier wrote:I have an issue with SI's article where he tries to imply that Karbala event is being sabotaged and converted into a celebration.


You have to observe the light baggages that bohras carry to these places and the increased number of baggages on their return which is due to their endless shopping spree which makes one wonder as to how they manage to squeeze out the time within the rituals for shopping. Regarding sabotage, the local jamaat is squeezed dry as they have to shell out millions by way of Burhanudin saab's fees and the icing on the cake is the extra millions extorted from the locals by way of ziafats and bestowing non significant and non religous titles of 'Sheikhs' and 'Mullas'.
GreatBarrier wrote:by saying Mubarak I mean blessed and many years before I knew the literal meaning I assumed it meant "fortunate that we have a Holy Day of Ashura when we can mourn Husain's martyyrdom and cleanse our sins" may be I am a more logical person than many others.
Just try to find out as to how many bohras say 'Ashura Mubarak' duly understanding the LITERAL meaning as understood by you.
GreatBarrier wrote:I would rather question the actions of those who go around and actually celebrate and in worldly terms "party" and please disclose if any examples exists and we can classify them to be wrong and attempt to correct them. Non of your references state that Bohras behave such as to discredit the day. If they perform actions that in your own view is in appropriate and should rather mourn and express more grief this is another topic. This will fall into a discussions around rituals, touches topics of what is prescribed in scriptures and how should an ideal Shia behave in Muharam and authenticity and relevance of those practises as they would have been prescribed after the death of Husain AS.In other words why would I take instructions from you to how to commemorate Ashura.
If endless shopping, going around places for enjoying exotic locations in this solemn month and eating 2 kharas 2 mithas like in marriages is not 'partying' for you then please specify your 'literal' meaning of partying. If sleeping in vayez and suddenly waking up to the sound of 'Allah taala na Hussain' and start beating chests with no trace of sorrow at that moment is not 'discrediting' this solemn occasion then what else ? If standing in circles and beating chests in chorus (like bollywood films song sequence where hundreds of extras dance in chorus as per choreographers instructions) without a drop of tear in their eyes doesnt amount to discredit then what else ? If beating chest and saying "Fatema, Fatema, Fatema" thereby disrespecting Khatun-e-jannat doesnt amount to discredit then what else ? If abusing the sahabas thereby injecting poison in the minds of bohras against other muslims is not discredit then what else ? If creating a divide within the ummah by these acts and also by instructing bohras not to attend vayez of other muslim brothers doesnt amount to discredit then what else ? Imam Hussain a.s. gave his life so that 'Islam zinda ho' and here they give a lesson on how to widen the divide in the ummah thereby defeating the very purpose of shahadat and distorting the true message of Imam Hussain a.s.

"Islam zinda hota hai har Karbala ke baad", can you show me any actions being initiated by Burhanudin saab to bridge the gap within the ummah and allowing a free and liberal interaction with non bohra muslims ? His actions and words only prove his bigger agenda of dividing the ummah and to rule over a section of brainwashed bohras by injecting a heavy dose of poison topped up with an equal heavy dose of fear thereby giving him a free hand to manipulate not only the masses but also manipulate history, ahadith etc. to achieve his evil goal.

Also try to edit the vayez and find out as to how much time is given to propagate the shahadat and to pass on the true message of Ashura as compared to the time given for singing his own praise and that of his bawajisaab.
GreatBarrier wrote:If you by your responses agree Mubarak technically means blessed what is wrong in correcting your article..that is your professional obligation and enhance your credibility as a learned scholar..let us not hold onto the position even when proved wrong....I think this site somtimes tends to turn into a debating stage where the most vocal and cheered is perceived as right...
There is no denial to the fact that Mubarak technically means 'blessed' as well as 'joyous' but the only point is whether what is the neeyat of an ordinary bohra when he uses this word. Does the meaning 'blessed' flash into his mind ? And by the way why this innovative practice started only recently and not during the times of other dais ? Were the previous dais so ignorant so as not to know the literal meaning of the phrase 'Ashura Mubarak' ?

Bro GB, at no point of time do I claim to be a revered scholar because Iam here only to speak my mind to which there may be agreements or disagreements for which I dont have any issue because everyone is free to think and profess things as per what he/she feels is best for him/her. Also please dont be under the impression that just by writing exhaustive artcles, members on this forum will get swayed away because the intellegent ones here far outnumber the dumb ones and only the posts which deal with core issues logically and truthfully are appreciated and not any crap.



Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#36

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:27 pm

gb, is hell bent on defending something which is indefensible. according to him whatever the syedna does is above reproach and criticism. even if what the syedna does flies in the face of the practices of the first 50 syednas and our deeni scriptures.

gb interprets things as he wants to without any respect to logic and as per his own convenience, changing his conveniences as he goes along. so when you disprove one of his absurd arguments, he will refuse to acknowledge that, but will go on to raise a completely new issue and make an about turn in another direction, an art learnt from the 51st syedna, who had taken dishonesty and lying to great heights, just one minor example of it being the chandabhai galla case.

have u ever tried arguing with a diehard miyabhai? u need not go far, we have gb as an example here. all his arguments re: the ashara picnic in mombasa were roundly defeated, but did he ever admit it? according to his twisted logic, how can 1.5 million brainwashed bohras be wrong and a few reformists be right? the depth of moral decadence in people like gb and his syedna is evident when they even refuse to acknowledge that a religious leader who calls himself dai ul mutlaq can brutally hunt and murder innocent animals for enjoyment.

those for whom allah intends jahannam, he puts curtains in front of their eyes. then they cannot see their own impending doom or the evil of their wrongdoings.

my appeal to people like bros. porus, gm, humsafar and Bhai insaf, is to leave such people to their own fate. gb has chosen to be blind. he is like humpty dumpty who has fallen off the wall. all the kings horses and all the kings men cannot put him back together. u did yr best, now let him be.



S. Insaf
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#37

Unread post by S. Insaf » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:25 am

GB says:
how can 1.5 million brainwashed bohras be wrong and a few reformists be right?
Dear Brother GB,
I need not tell you that 40,000 well-armed and well-fed supporters of Yazid, (the ruling khalifa of the time) against merely 72 (hungry and trusty old, young and children) supporters of Imam Husain in Karbala have been proved wrong by the history. So the majority following does not prove a person wrong or right. As for as raising doubts about Dai again I need not tell you that the Muslims had raised doubts against holy Prophet and Hazrat Ali especially in the matter of accountability.



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#38

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:57 am

As far as I remember using of the phrase 'Ashura Mubarak' began after a few rounds of vayez at different locations worldwide and thereafter everytime that the precious words of fixing the venue for Mohurrum were whispered in Burhanudin saab's ears, bohras would greet each other by saying 'Aa waqt Ashura Mubarak Houston ma che' or 'Ashura Mubarak Dubai ma che' thereby expressing their joy of having got a chance to visit a new country at discounted rates with food/accomodation on the house. Since years we have heard bohras greeting each other 'Navu waras mubarak' at the beginning of Mohurrum but never heard them saying 'Ashura mubarak' on the eve of Mohurrum, it only started recently in Burhanudin saab's tenure as a gesture of joy for getting an opportunity to surf accross the globe on the pretext of attending Imam Hussain a.s.'s vayez.



Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#39

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:23 pm

i suppose the next step will be for the syedna and our brainwashed bohras to start saying on ashura day, " SHAHADAT MUBARAK". now this may sound blasphemous and disrespectful to some, and believe me, that is absolutely not my intention, but according to Great barrier's interpretation of 'blessed shahadat', there shud be no problems for him to say this, right?

see where faulty logic takes u, when the basic premise itself is flawed?



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#40

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:15 pm

Extract from Surat Al-Munafiqeen, ayah 1-3)

When the hypocrites come to thee, they will say we bear witness that thou art indeed the messenger of Allah. Yea, Allah knowths that thou art indeed his messenger, and Allah bearth witness that the hypocrites are indeed liars.
They have made their oaths. A screen (for their misdeeds): thus they obstruct men from the path of Allah: Truly evil is their deeds.
That is because they believed, then they rejected faith: so a seal was set on their hearts, therefore they understand not...



GreatBarrier
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#41

Unread post by GreatBarrier » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:44 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:i suppose the next step will be for the syedna and our brainwashed bohras to start saying on ashura day, " SHAHADAT MUBARAK". now this may sound blasphemous and disrespectful to some, and believe me, that is absolutely not my intention, but according to Great barrier's interpretation of 'blessed shahadat', there shud be no problems for him to say this, right?

see where faulty logic takes u, when the basic premise itself is flawed?
What is wrong with Shahad Mubarak to repond to your comment within the context of Mubarak? The Shaheed as we are informed are happy to take part in self sacrifice for jihad. It is a fortunate occasion on them and their families. Our scriptures state that Ali Akbar and Adullah AS were disappointed when they were not being granted permission during Ashura.

Mythology and ideology states that they will rise "happy" so logic states that they will be greeted and welcomed in Janah on their achievements.

India celebrates the shaheeds of its war with Pakistan and Colonialists with poem and music. We do not treat their loss as victim and endlessly mourn but acknowledge their noble sacrifice.

It shows how some of your reasoning is short sighted...use wide angle lenses !



Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#42

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:06 am

gb,

to pachi tamne ane tamara dai, syedna mohd burhanuddin ne imam hussain ni "shahadat mubarak" thai..



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#43

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:13 pm

GreatBarrier wrote:What is wrong with Shahad Mubarak to repond to your comment within the context of Mubarak? The Shaheed as we are informed are happy to take part in self sacrifice for jihad. It is a fortunate occasion on them and their families. Our scriptures state that Ali Akbar and Adullah AS were disappointed when they were not being granted permission during Ashura.

Mythology and ideology states that they will rise "happy" so logic states that they will be greeted and welcomed in Janah on their achievements.

India celebrates the shaheeds of its war with Pakistan and Colonialists with poem and music. We do not treat their loss as victim and endlessly mourn but acknowledge their noble sacrifice.

It shows how some of your reasoning is short sighted...use wide angle lenses !
If that is the case then why does Burhanudin saab insist that bohras do purjosh maatam and weep profusely and "agar rovu na aave to rova jivu muh banavo". He should then invite the burhani guards with their band baaja or could even instruct the bohras of London to send the 'pied piper band', who had played the music in their skirt type dresses duly followed by Burhanudin saab in a rolls royce car during his visit to London. After hogging 2 kharas 2 mithas, the only sign of celebration missing is band baaja and music.



GreatBarrier
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#44

Unread post by GreatBarrier » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:37 pm

I forgot to include the comment that one should say Shahadaat Mubarak to the person performing Shahaddat or immediate family of the Shaheed and only if he has willingly gone on Jihad and end outcome is Shahadat.

Not the victims who were collateral damage.



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#45

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:19 am

Bro GB,

It seems that from this long debate you have atleast realised the importance and sanctity of a Shaheed which is the specific point that members on this forum want to highlight which in a nutshell is that utmost importance should be given to the message which the Shohadas wanted to pass on and which is exactly what is lacking in the endless bayans which is filled with only distorted facts and for which stress is laid only on weeping and maatam thereby conveniently bypassing the true message of Imam Hussain a.s. What spiritual benefits can one derive from 9 days of bayaan in which there is no importance attached to the message of the great martyrs is anyones guess.



Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#46

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:02 pm

bro. gm,

the tragedy is this that the bohras today believe that the only way to mark the ten days of moharram is by banging their chests, shouting and yelling ya hussain, and shedding copious tears. this is all due to the subtle brainwashing of the syedna and his daras trained robots who keep repeating the narration of kerbala without going into its underlying meanings, the triumph of good over evil by resisting tyranny, injustice and immorality, precisely what the syedna and his parasitic family are doing to the bohras.

will a goonda ever talk about the morality of gandhi or the selfless charity of mother teresa?



Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#47

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:02 pm

bro. gm,

the tragedy is that the bohras today believe that the only way to mark the ten days of moharram is by banging their chests, shouting and yelling ya hussain, and shedding copious tears. this is all due to the subtle brainwashing of the syedna and his daras trained robots who keep repeating the narration of kerbala without going into its underlying meanings, viz. the triumph of good over evil by resisting tyranny, injustice and immorality, precisely what the syedna and his parasitic family are doing to the bohras.

will a goonda ever talk about the morality of gandhi or the selfless charity of mother teresa? he might refer to them but only in passing and superficially, shedding crocodile tears just like our syedna and his thugs.

this is the same situation with the corrupt indian politicians playing with the name of gandhi and the even worse thugs in pakistan talking about qayed e azam jinnah in every sentence.



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#48

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:16 pm

What the Shi’ah do on ‘Ashoora’ of beating their chests, slapping their cheeks, striking their shoulders with chains and cutting their heads with swords to let the blood flow are all innovations that have no basis in Islam. These things are evils that were forbidden by the Prophet (s.a.w.), who did not prescribe for his ummah to do any of these things or anything similar to them to mark the death of a leader or the loss of a martyr, no matter what his status. During his lifetime (s.a.w.) a number of senior Sahaabah were martyred and he mourned their loss, such as Hamzah ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib, Zayd ibn Haarithah, Ja’far ibn Abi Taalib and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Rawaahah, but he did not do any of the things that these people do. If it was good, he (s.a.w.) would have done it before us.

Ya’qoob (a.s.) did not strike his chest or scratch his face, or shed blood or take the day of the loss of Yoosuf as a festival or day of mourning. Rather he remembered his missing loved one and felt sad and distressed because of that. This is something no one can be blamed for. What is forbidden is these actions that have been inherited from the Jaahiliyyah, and which Islam forbids

These reprehensible actions that the Shi’ah do on the day of ‘Ashoora’ have no basis in Islam. The Prophet (s.a.w.) did not do them, nor did any of his companions. None of his companions did them when he or anyone else died, although the loss of Muhammad (s.a.w.) was greater than the death of al-Husayn (a.s.).

The Raafidis went to extremes in the state of Bani Buwayh in the year 400 and thereabouts. The drums were beaten in Baghdad and other cities on the day of ‘Ashoora’, and sand and straw was strewn in the streets and marketplaces, and sackcloth was hung on the shops, and the people expressed grief and wept. Many of them did not drink water that night, in sympathy with al-Husayn, because he was killed when he was thirsty. Then the women went out barefaced, wailing and slapping their faces and chests, walking barefoot in the marketplaces, and other reprehensible innovations… What they intended by these and similar actions is to impugn the state of Banu Umayyah (the Umayyads), because he was killed during their era.

On the day of ‘Ashoora', the Naasibis of Syria do the opposite of what the Raafidis and Shi’ah do. They used to cook grains on the day of ‘Ashoora' and do ghusl and perfume themselves, and wear their finest garments, and they took that day as an Eid for which they made all kinds of food, and expressed happiness and joy, intending thereby to annoy the Raafidis and be different from them.

It should be noted that these reprehensible actions are encouraged by the enemies of Islam, so that they can achieve their evil aims of distorting the image of Islam and its followers.



S. Insaf
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Re: Relevance of Karbala

#49

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Martyrdom of Imam Husain and its relevance in the prevailing situation in the Dawoodi Bohra Community - Concluding Part III
Islam stands for truth, justice and peace for all. Thus the Allah in Quran is described as Rabul-Aalemin and Allah's messenger, Hazrat Mohammad is described as "Rehmatul-lil-Aalemeen." Islam condemns and rejects any kind of oppression and any form of injustice to any creature of Allah. The holy Prophet has commanded:
"When one sees a tyrant ruler committing forbidden acts, and going against the Book of God and the traditions of the Holy Prophet and yet he/she does nothing to try and stop him by actions or words, then this man deserves to go into the fires of hell."
Thus as we commemorate the sacrifices of the martyrs of Karbala for the truth and justice we are required to resolve to continuously struggle against the evil forces which oppresses and do injustices. We must stand up firm and solid against tyranny and injustice of the rulers of our time and against any arrogant individual or power that is bent upon encroaching upon the rights of the others.
Most historians are of the view that Hazrat Usman was not corrupt. The huge wealth which came in as war booty created political conflicts among those who were purists and those who were aspiring to have their share in power and prosperity and not committed to Islamic ideals.
We see a parallel in our Dawoodi Bohra community. Sayedna Taher Saifuddin occupied the seat of Dawat at a time when wealth and prosperity came in our community and he tried to have his lion's share in it.
Hazrat Usman was resented by general Muslims as he appointed on governorship and other plum position his own kinsmen and distributed money most generously from the public treasury to them disregarding the welfare of umma. Hazrat Usman was warned by many upright companions of holy Prophet like Hazrat Ali, Hazrat Abu-Zar Gaffari, Abdur-Rehman bin Auf, Ammar bin Yasir, Malik bin Haris Ashtar, Zaid bin Sohan Abadi, Ka'ab bin Abda, Amir bin Qais etc.
Similarly Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb also usurped forcefully trusts and properties of the community excluding all original trustees and replaced them by his own kinsmen. The governorships (Amalat) and Presidentships of Jamats and various organizations of the community were given to inexperienced and power-hungry close relatives who were not committed to Fatemi Dawah and welfare of the community. Sayedna Taher Saifuddin was also warned by his own brother-in-law Sayedi Ismail Bhaisaheb Luqmani, sons of Peerbhoy, Shaikh Faizullabhoy,Hamdanis, Kajijis, Maskatis, Jivanjees etc.
The general resentment against Hazrat Usman ultimately resulted in open defiance and then to his murder.
The resentment against Sayedna Taher Saifuddin resulted in number of violent clashes, court cases and ultimately in divisions in the community.
Hazrat Usman left his governor Moaviyah unchecked who totally deviated from Islamic principles killing the Islamic revolution and paving way for monarchy and dictatorship in Islam and to assert the Umayyads' right to rule on a dynastic principle.
Sayedna Taher Saifuddin also deviated from Islamic ideals and Bohra Faith and turned Fatemi Dawat into monarchy and established his family's rights to rule on dynastic principle by appointing his son Mohammad Burhanuddin his successor going against the norms of Dawah.
Some people argue that when community prospers why its benefits not be enjoyed by its head? Agreed. But Islam prohibits absolute power and concentration of wealth and that too when they are acquired by forceful means. Islam also prohibits a life of utter luxury. One of the 100 qualifications for a true Dai states:-
"Dai should not be desirous of worldly rule, because that will carry him to falsehood. And falsehood is the root of all the reproaches (discredits), which results in transmitting enmity, malice, separation, quarrel etc."
All falsehood, enmity, malice, separation and quarrels started in Dawoodi Bohra community with Sayedna Taher Saifuddin who desired of worldly rule. The repressive and divisive policies of Sayedna Taher Saifuddin resulted in open violent clashes in the community which were unheard in the history of this community, court cases against Dai, divisions in the community, enmity against the great well-wishers of the community like Peerbhoys, Kinkhabwalas, Mamujis, Jeevanjis, Alvis, Moriswalas and thousands of others and constantly cursing them. To compel Bohras to submit to his dictates he imposed Misaq and Sajda for Dai, Raza and a practice of Baraat.
Prior to Sayedna Taher Saifuddin the subordinate Amils were well educated and free from corruption because of them the community maintained its ethical superiority in the Islamic world.
Now coming to the regime of present Dai, Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb. When he was Mazoon Bohras in general thought that he is humble, kind and well-wisher of the community. But moment he occupied the seat of Dawat he too perused the repressive policies of his father and further deviated from Islam and Bohra faith worsening the situation.
Revolt in Udaipur was in fact a test for Sayedna Burhanuddin because in one of the qualifications of a true Dai it is said that "A Dai should accomplish the demands of believers, do them justice and protect them from oppressors. Dai should immediately intervene whenever a quarrel takes place among the believers." The entire history of Udaipur in recent time is a testimony that the present Dai has acted contrary to this qualifications.
Sayedna Taher Saifuddin took the trusts and properties of the community under his absolute control and used them to built his financial empire and then Sayedna Burhanuddin slowly disposed them off and filled his own coffer.
First he destroyed Qasre-Husaini Jamatkhana and Noor Masjid and built his father's mausoleum on its land. Then he destroyed Daud Baugh and sold off its valuable land. He converted Kapadwanj ni wadi and Moriswala Musafirkhana in to commercial ventures. He destroyed Sir Adamji Peerbhoy Sanatorium and built "Saifee Hospital" in his father's name. Now he is trying to convert Saifee High school and Burhani College in to a Shopping Mall. Similar activities are going on in Burhanpur, Ujjain, Jamnagar, Rajkot, Karachi and elsewhere.
Today like governors (Amils) of Hazrat Usman, Moaviyah of Syria, Mumineen from various places Bohras are complaining to Dai regarding the high-handedness of his Amils but there is no response from him. Like governor of Syria, in Hazrat Usman's time every Amil today has become most arrogant and exploitative.
Further more it is said that: "A Dai should not look around in self-admiration."But we hear a Madeh often recited in praise of the present Dai:
Sajda tujhe wajib hai, too masjide-Azam hai,
Haj hai teri pabosi, too kaba-e-Alam hai.

There is a warning after describing the qualifications of True Dai:-
"If a Dai does not posses the above mentioned qualities in reality and is called, he will not benefit the community. It is useless to hope for any Spiritual profit from such a Dai. The assumption of the name of Dai for such a Dai is a sin and he is a sort of burden on believers. Mere name does not benefit. There also be quality and action combined with it."
The present Dai, Sayedna Burhanuddin has imposed more taxes, Arz, Ikram, Tashrif Aawri, Talaqqi, Vadhavni, Kadambosi, Ziyafats, Nawazishat of titles etc. Two rakat namaz for him and his late father. Matam after every prayer. Celebration on grand scale on his birthday and on the solemn occasion of Moharram in far away places.
Only difference is that the Bani Umayyads openly ridiculed Islamic principles and cursed Ahle-bay'te. 51st and 52nd Dais have established their rule on the life style of Bani Umayyads degrading Allah (claiming Ilahul-Ard), Qura'an (claiming Quran-e-Natiq), Hazrat Mohammad (claiming equal rights of Rasool), Ahlul-Bait (celebrating Ashra Mubarak and 'shahadats with hi tech tamashas and thereafter immediately organizing mass-marriages function, Tafrih programs and hunting of wild animals) at the same time claiming that these two Dais are the true followers of Islam, Qur’an and Ahlul-Bait.
Inspite of the investigative reports of two inquiry commissions, a case in the Supreme Court of India against "Baraat" (excommunication) and open revolt in Udaipur, Banswada, Dahod, Chennai, and Calcutta etc. there is absolutely no difference in the repressive policies of Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb. He and his establishment have become as arrogant as Bani Umayyads were. By claiming Dai of Allah, Dai of Ali and Dai of Husain they want to create an impression that they are the true inheritors of Ahlul-Bait. But in fact they are successors of the oppressors of yesterday.
Commemorating Moharram is meaningless until we realize the essential massage of Imam Husain that “Fighting unto death is more honorable than submitting to tyranny and injustice.” After a day long vaiz and hours of matam we go home to our comfortable beds and have a restful night’s sleep while thousands of co-religionists starve to death and suffer oppression. Is that why Imam Husain scarified his blessed blood for?



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Relevance of Karbala

#50

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:00 pm

In earlier days when I used to go to bohra masjids on Ashura I witnessed about a dozen men engage in "bloody" matam, a custom frowned upon by the dawat but practiced surreptitiously nonetheless....

The matam reaches its climax in the courtyard, in a rare display of devotion with ritual implements...Once his skin has been crisscrossed by a series of red gashes, each man passes the scourge to the next flagellant.

The entire operation seems to have been carefully planned and executed....The courtyard's marble floor is soon running with spilled blood, red puddles running turning pink when diluted with water from the wuzu enclosure. The rest of the worshipers have to walk barefoot through this area in order to reach the shoe rack and exit...Although this practice is officially shunned, there is no doubt that the men who engage in it earn great community prestige: each man whose pure white kurta has been reddened is treated as a hero, and the packed crowd reverently make way for him to pass



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Relevance of Karbala

#51

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:36 pm

What lessons can we derive from the remembrance of the Day of `Ashura’ and the assassination of Imam Al-Hussein? How can the Muslim Ummah use a review of the attitude of Imam Al-Hussein in an attempt to enjoin the right, forbid the wrong and resist corruption? How can we apply the lessons derived from what happened to Imam Al-Hussein to our contemporary situation, especially with America’s domination on the Arab region?

Responding to the question, Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, deputy chairman of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, issued the following fatwa on 29/2/2004:

The revolution that Imam Al-Hussein made was not a rebellion against a legal ruler; it was a revolution against a tyrant dictator, Yazid Ibn Mu`awiyah, who deprived the Ummah of its right to choose its rulers [by succeeding his father to the caliphate]. Besides, he was notorious for being corrupt and dissolute. The majority of the Sunni scholars and others agreed to that, and Ibn Hajar mentioned so in his book As-Sawa`iq Al-Muhriqah. By his revolution, Imam Al-Hussein's aim was not at all to support the Shiites, though the tragedy of Karbala’ was a turning point in the history of the Shiites, for since then they were no longer a mere political group supporting the People of the House (Prophet Muhammad's descendents), but rather they became an independent school that had its own beliefs, jurisprudents, social organizations and system of rule.

The aim of Imam Al-Hussein behind such a revolution, as he declared it, was: "To reform the nation of my grandfather (Prophet Muhammad, s.a.w.).” This would imply putting an end to all kinds of corruption and deviation from the right path so that the nation could be united again. Uniting the nation would not be achieved in the existence of corruption; Allah's Messenger (s.a.w.), is reported to have said: "My Ummah would not unite in supporting corruption."

Here, I would like to refer to the fact that Muslims at that time were not divided into Sunnis and Shiites in the way it is known nowadays. Anyway, all Muslims then believed that transferring the caliphate from Mu`awiyah to his son Yazid by means of inheritance was unlawful and that Al-Hussein, being a pious, honest and courageous person, was worthier of being the caliph then. However, they did not go to fight with him against Yazid's army. Besides, those who sent for Al-Hussein and urged him to go to war against Yazid let him down and did not fight with him. The senior Companions of the Prophet (s.a.w.) advised Al-Hussein not to go to war, but Allah's Will was that he would go and the tragedy of his martyrdom would take place to remain a disgraceful stain on our glorious history

Al-Hussein was an Imam for all the Muslims, Sunnis and Shiites. It is true that only a minority defended him while the majority of the Muslims, including the Shiites, who had urged him to confront Yazid, did not go to fight with him.

But a fair look at what happened thereafter shows that the Muslims became united. They did so in supporting Ibn Az-Zubayr in his revolution against Yazid. The Companions and their true followers remained in their houses in Madinah, refusing to pledge allegiance to Yazid, and Muslims too rejected Yazid's violating the sanctity of Madinah and its people. The Muslims also showed unity in supporting Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik in their ordeals because of their love for the People of the House and their support of those among them who revolted against the tyrant rulers.

The Muslims expressed their support of the people of the House. For example, Imam Ash-Shafi`i said, "If loving the People of Prophet Muhammad's House would be regarded a rebellion, then, let humankind and jinn bear witness that I am a rebel."

The call for Muslim unity today is not a motto; it is a duty that Allah has ordained on us and a necessary requirement to confront our enemy, whose sole aim is to uproot Islam and Muslims. Our enemy makes every effort in that regard.

Thus, we need an initiative to be taken by all movements and scholars in uniting our Muslim Ummah and establishing Allah's Law, so that we can confront our enemy.

We are one Ummah that testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is His Messenger. So, let our actions and efforts be an expression of the unity in that regard; let our guiding principle be, (And hold fast, all of you together, to the cable of Allah, and do not separate …) (Aal-`Imran 3: 103)



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Relevance of Karbala

#52

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:03 pm

bro. gm.

let us confront the facts and distill the truth from it. the simple fact is 99.99% of the human race is composed of cowards and rascals. some are cowards because they are afraid for themselves or their families, some because they see benefits in joining up with the oppressors, some because they are struck by complacency and the relative comfort of their obscurity and mediocrity.

all religions have been pure only as long as their founders existed. with their passing, human nature took over and irrespective of the religion or its message, they all have gone to the dogs. the only aspect that remains of them is their ability to create divisions and hatred and a pastime to argue ad nauseum within themselves and with others. full of arrogance, a false sense of pride and superiority over others, they utter curses and abuses about other religions, if not openly, then often unsaid and in private.

all this dwelling on past factions and struggles for righthood v/s evil is nothing but a tale of base human cowardice and selfish greed. the majority got motivated to join up only when they saw the tide turning and when they realised they would be swept away if they resisted. iran became and remains shia simply because of their enmity and rivalry with the arab race and vice versa the arabs hate the persians and will never acknowledge or respect shiaism for that reason alone. iran would have been sunni if they were not slighted by the sunni arabs. so all this talk of nobility and courage of convictions is pure bullshit. its nothing but politics, greed and convenience.

remember england is protestant not because they were and are so courageous in their convictions and so outraged by the corruption of the pope and his clergy. they were fine and turned a blind eye to all that loot when it suited them. but when henry the xviii expected the pope to condone his debauchery and serial marriages and divorces and the pope did not concur, - again for political reasons, - the king of england in a fit of rage and revenge rejected christianity and forced the protestant faith on his people. today, the average protestant englishmen and their culture, media and lifestyle pokes vicious fun at the pope and catholicism, as if they are all such vocal and pure human beings compared to the roman catholics!!

i personally believe in ignoring the stories from subsequent histories of each religion, as they are nothing but a sad and shameful history of human beings motivated by gain, not religion or god. so let us not talk about grand and magnificent plans of huge groups of human beings motivated by a love of god, as that is all crap.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Relevance of Karbala

#53

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:46 pm

An online poll was conducted by the Houston Jamaat on Tuesday, 22nd Safar a regarding bohras views on attending masjid during Mohurrum. The result is :-

Our online poll also closed on chehlum, while jaman led the poll in our favorite part of the majlis for many days, we eventually redeemed ourselves as more than half of online voters, 55%, said our favorite part is the marsiyas or doing maatam. The rest of the voters, 45%, enjoy the social aspect of coming to the majlises - meeting people and eating in the thaal.
The truth remains, there's something at the masjid for everybody.

Marsiyas 6 (30%)

Meeting people 3 (15%)

Doing maatam 4 (20%)

Madeh 1 (5%)

Jaman 6 (30%)

http://houstonjamaat.blogspot.com/2009/ ... -1430.html



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Relevance of Karbala

#54

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:27 am


tahirulqadri on crying on husain.mp4
(6.47 MiB) Downloaded 201 times



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Relevance of Karbala

#55

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:47 am


jihad is junge karbala.mp4
(4.23 MiB) Downloaded 69 times



think
Posts: 1764
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Relevance of Karbala

#56

Unread post by think » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:02 pm

Yes, Mr. Zulfiqar, your statement " it has gone to the dogs " in earlier post is supportive in Surah number 7 of the holy quraan "al aaraaf" verse numbers 175 to 179. Taking from the translation by Yusuf Ali, " His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him , he lolls out his tongue , or if you leave him alone, he still lolls out his tongue. that is the similitude of those who reject our signs; and the quran continues about the character of such.
In case , one objects,; this ayat is not out of context and further reading will lead one to sadly agree with your thoughts on the subject being discussed.
In the same vein may i also add that I have seen a recent video of people doing matam when the national anthem of India was being sung by a group wearing black shirts and black bandanas around their forehead. Jahalat is rampant these days but the bohras are a notch up.