Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

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profastian
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#61

Unread post by profastian » Fri May 21, 2010 8:32 am

Smart wrote:Buddy, read your own statement, before you comment on mine.
Yes i have read my own statement. I never said the apparent lack of knowledge in the Quran "implies" that the DAI has all the knowledge.

Smart
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#62

Unread post by Smart » Fri May 21, 2010 8:36 am

profastian wrote,
And if not, who has all the knowledge if not the DAI.
What is this, then?

profastian
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#63

Unread post by profastian » Fri May 21, 2010 8:39 am

Smart wrote:
profastian wrote,
And if not, who has all the knowledge if not the DAI.
What is this, then?
Well,if not the DAI, meant that i believe that it is the DAI. I never meant implied. I hope i made myself clear. Now what do you believe? Who has the knowledge?

Smart
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#64

Unread post by Smart » Fri May 21, 2010 9:38 am

If the dai has all the knowledge, then why does he not use it to save the rest of the humanity i.e. 99.99% apart from the abdes from a confirmed after life in jahannum?

This means that either he does not have all the knowledge or he is inhuman enough not to care. On the other hand just imagine the sawaab he would get for saving so many souls.

I think this pretension of him having all the knowledge is just a pretension and a lie to boot.

profastian
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#65

Unread post by profastian » Fri May 21, 2010 9:56 am

Smart wrote:If the dai has all the knowledge, then why does he not use it to save the rest of the humanity i.e. 99.99% apart from the abdes from a confirmed after life in jahannum?

This means that either he does not have all the knowledge or he is inhuman enough not to care. On the other hand just imagine the sawaab he would get for saving so many souls.

I think this pretension of him having all the knowledge is just a pretension and a lie to boot.
Again you didn't answer my question

rania
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#66

Unread post by rania » Fri May 21, 2010 10:11 am

Smart wrote:If the dai has all the knowledge, then why does he not use it to save the rest of the humanity i.e. 99.99% apart from the abdes from a confirmed after life in jahannum?

This means that either he does not have all the knowledge or he is inhuman enough not to care. On the other hand just imagine the sawaab he would get for saving so many souls.

I think this pretension of him having all the knowledge is just a pretension and a lie to boot.
Same could be said of the Prophet himself. Why did he not use all the knowledge to save the rest of the humanity ?

Was the Prophet inhuman to not care about the rest of the humanity or did he not have all the knowledge ?

Heck why doesn't Allah save every human ?

Smart
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#67

Unread post by Smart » Fri May 21, 2010 1:49 pm

^
The Prophet took Islam from a few adherents to a flourishing religion across the countries in a quarter of a century. What has the Syedna done? He has reduced Bohras to quarter their number in his reign.

Every time the reference to dai comes, why do you have to bring the Prophet in it. There is saying in Hindi - "kahaan Raja Bhoj aur kahaan Gangu teli". The two are just not comparable.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#68

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri May 21, 2010 2:13 pm

rania wrote:

Heck why doesn't Allah save every human ?
he tried very hard in your case, but failed when you married an abde bonded laborer of syedna and willingly converted to a brainless amte. now can you blame allah for that? :?

rania
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#69

Unread post by rania » Fri May 21, 2010 2:46 pm

Smart wrote:^
The Prophet took Islam from a few adherents to a flourishing religion across the countries in a quarter of a century. What has the Syedna done? He has reduced Bohras to quarter their number in his reign.

Every time the reference to dai comes, why do you have to bring the Prophet in it. There is saying in Hindi - "kahaan Raja Bhoj aur kahaan Gangu teli". The two are just not comparable.
Ah , the classic change of goalposts.


Repeating myself , why didn't the Prophet save all of humanity ? Was he Inhuman or did he not have all the knowledge ?

rania
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#70

Unread post by rania » Fri May 21, 2010 2:48 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
rania wrote:

Heck why doesn't Allah save every human ?
he tried very hard in your case, but failed when you married an abde bonded laborer of syedna and willingly converted to a brainless amte. now can you blame allah for that? :?
Allah Failed ? :lol:

When in a hole , stop digging. :wink:

Biradar
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#71

Unread post by Biradar » Fri May 21, 2010 2:50 pm

rania wrote:
Same could be said of the Prophet himself. Why did he not use all the knowledge to save the rest of the humanity ?

Was the Prophet inhuman to not care about the rest of the humanity or did he not have all the knowledge ?

Heck why doesn't Allah save every human ?
Sister rania,

The prophet has brought a religion which leads to salvation. He has not claimed to bring a library of every possible known thing in the universe. Otherwise, his command to study and obtain knowledge from far off places would be silly and absurd. Islam is a way of life. However, you still need to live your life: earn a living, study nature etc. Islam provides a framework for determining answers but does not fill in every single detail. Otherwise your intellect would be made redundant.

I have often considered that the reason why Bohras (or for that matter any group) say that all answers are with so-and-so is that they have a fear of the unknown and a lack of courage to admit that we do not know and that hard work is needed to discover something new. For example, it takes years to develop a new idea or field of knowledge. How convenient would it be if we could just ask someone for all the answers? Sadly, these someones are just out to milk you for all you are worth. In the end, you still need to work hard and do it yourself.

Also, Allah's way are inscrutable. It is not for us to question his intentions. Perhaps you are a prophet or Allah himself that you have this inside knowledge. If so, please enlighten us with your profound wisdom.

rania
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#72

Unread post by rania » Fri May 21, 2010 3:03 pm

Biradar wrote:
rania wrote:
Same could be said of the Prophet himself. Why did he not use all the knowledge to save the rest of the humanity ?

Was the Prophet inhuman to not care about the rest of the humanity or did he not have all the knowledge ?

Heck why doesn't Allah save every human ?
Sister rania,

The prophet has brought a religion which leads to salvation. He has not claimed to bring a library of every possible known thing in the universe. Otherwise, his command to study and obtain knowledge from far off places would be silly and absurd. Islam is a way of life. However, you still need to live your life: earn a living, study nature etc. Islam provides a framework for determining answers but does not fill in every single detail. Otherwise your intellect would be made redundant.

I have often considered that the reason why Bohras (or for that matter any group) say that all answers are with so-and-so is that they have a fear of the unknown and a lack of courage to admit that we do not know and that hard work is needed to discover something new. For example, it takes years to develop a new idea or field of knowledge. How convenient would it be if we could just ask someone for all the answers? Sadly, these someones are just out to milk you for all you are worth. In the end, you still need to work hard and do it yourself.

Also, Allah's way are inscrutable. It is not for us to question his intentions. Perhaps you are a prophet or Allah himself that you have this inside knowledge. If so, please enlighten us with your profound wisdom.
Salam ,

The Dawoodi Bohras believe the Prophet to be ' Know-It-All ' .Likewise , we believe Imam and Imam's Dai to be ' Know-It-All ' .

The Prophet is indeed the library of every possible thing in the universe.His command to his followers to study and obtain knowledge has no bearing on how knowledgeable he is. Likewise in the case of the Imam and his Dai.

If Fingers are being pointed at Dai on why has he not saved every human being , it is fitting to ask on why has the Prophet not saved every human being or for that matter why Allah has not saved the whole humanity !

Only Allah's way may be inscrutable in your opinion. But for the Bohras there are several additions to that.Prophet's ways , Imam's ways and Dai's ways are inscrutable and it is not upon people to question their intentions.

Biradar
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#73

Unread post by Biradar » Fri May 21, 2010 3:22 pm

rania wrote: The Dawoodi Bohras believe the Prophet to be ' Know-It-All ' .Likewise , we believe Imam and Imam's Dai to be ' Know-It-All ' .
Please provide references to the Quran or any Ismaili literature from the Fatmid period to back up this claim. Also, I would advise you to read the first chapter from the Daim al-Islam on the position of the Imam. The Imam was against those who exaggerated their positions. This is called "ghulu" and people who engage in such things called ghulat. Imam Hakim, when the Druze claimed he was divine, distanced himself from them and asked Sayedna Hamid al-din Kirmani to refute their claims. From the Quran it is clear that only Allah has knowledge of all things. Do not commit shirk by attributing this to a human.

It is clear that slowly the bohras are claiming the da'i to be divine. They already claim he is "raab" on this earth, but quickly back up the statement by saying that worship is only for Allah. I think this is a way to weasel ones way out of openly committing shirk. Any sane person will see through their attempts to make the da'i the be-all and end-all of the community. Sister, you are free to believe what you wish. I am not trying to change your viewpoint and know that debate on this matter is pointless.

profastian
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#74

Unread post by profastian » Mon May 24, 2010 4:38 am

Biradar wrote:
rania wrote: The Dawoodi Bohras believe the Prophet to be ' Know-It-All ' .Likewise , we believe Imam and Imam's Dai to be ' Know-It-All ' .
Please provide references to the Quran or any Ismaili literature from the Fatmid period to back up this claim. Also, I would advise you to read the first chapter from the Daim al-Islam on the position of the Imam. The Imam was against those who exaggerated their positions. This is called "ghulu" and people who engage in such things called ghulat. Imam Hakim, when the Druze claimed he was divine, distanced himself from them and asked Sayedna Hamid al-din Kirmani to refute their claims. From the Quran it is clear that only Allah has knowledge of all things. Do not commit shirk by attributing this to a human.

It is clear that slowly the bohras are claiming the da'i to be divine. They already claim he is "raab" on this earth, but quickly back up the statement by saying that worship is only for Allah. I think this is a way to weasel ones way out of openly committing shirk. Any sane person will see through their attempts to make the da'i the be-all and end-all of the community. Sister, you are free to believe what you wish. I am not trying to change your viewpoint and know that debate on this matter is pointless.
Ok so you guys believe that the Prophet was not 'Know it all'. Is it the official progressive position?

ozmujaheed
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#75

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Mon May 24, 2010 9:20 am

AZ why I am asking this questions around his lineage is because it makes no logical sense the current Indian Bohras would be following a Quraish decedent of pioneer Imams, Bohra culture is so much Brahmin if not Yemeni. There loyalty or beliefs are contradictory.

Nobody either orthos or progs have provided explanation or justification why we or anyone needs an Imam Zaman who leaves in some weird hidden form, facts or logical reason of a human being going in seclusion and if they think he is running the community behind the scenes then his background is so different we have turned into some Surti cocktail and neither Yemeni or Quraishi.

My view this is once again manipulating history to create mystery and secure the faith. Tayeb disappeared from the scene either in fear, murder, death or conversion and someone or group thought it is better to state he has gone into parallel universe whatever that is and let the faithfuls continue. Sounds so similar to Christian beleifs about Christ being raised from the dead.

Some smart ass ortho challenged me, that he IZ died and this was his descendant but shied away when I asked if he was still the 21st Imam or some higher number. Some of the explanation are worthy of fairy tales.

porus
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#76

Unread post by porus » Mon May 24, 2010 9:56 am

Please bring some knowledge of history to bear on the discussion.

21st Imam was the last one anyone has seen alive.

The belief is that 21st Imam and his descendant Imams are in 'seclusion'. Whereabouts of the current Imam, whatever his number, is unknown. It is the belief that he will be from the 21st Imam's progeny. He does not have to be an Arab. He could be Chinese for all we know. There is no restriction about his descent. The only requirement is that he will be in the progeny of the 21st.

There is a precedent for this state of affairs. Following the deaths of the 6th and 7th Imams, around 750 AD, the subsequent 3 Imams went into seclusion. 11th Imam, al-Mahdi, re-appeared in Tunisia in about 900 AD and his descendants founded the Fatemi Khilafat in Egypt. The 20th Imam died in 1120 AD. At that time the 21st Imam, al-Tayyib, went into hiding.

Whoever the current Imam is, he is known as Imam-uz-zamaan.

Current Imam's whereabouts or his lineage is not a burning issue. It is a minor historical/theological issue not deserving of much attention.

ozmujaheed
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#77

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Tue May 25, 2010 8:23 am

Porus thank you for explaining the Bohra belief..
Current Imam's whereabouts or his lineage is not a burning issue. It is a minor historical/theological issue not deserving of much attention.
If the above is true why so much rituals around him, kissing palm from head to lips whenever his name is taken the same way when Bismillah..is that not almost shirk by equating him to Allah...while not the same for the Prophet SAW. He has a special milad.

The reason I am digging in is his position is so central to the Ismaili Bohra ideology and if it is based on some shaky theory then the last 800-1000 years have been tainted too.

You may not believe me but Hon Tayeb must have been a pious man and a respected individual scholar you name it I have no reason to doubt his personality..it is the historians that have probably cooked stories and made him larger than life fr their own agenda.

porus
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#78

Unread post by porus » Tue May 25, 2010 9:36 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Porus thank you for explaining the Bohra belief..
Current Imam's whereabouts or his lineage is not a burning issue. It is a minor historical/theological issue not deserving of much attention.
If the above is true why so much rituals around him, kissing palm from head to lips whenever his name is taken the same way when Bismillah..is that not almost shirk by equating him to Allah...while not the same for the Prophet SAW. He has a special milad.
I have already mentioned the requirement for his lineage. Who or where he currently is not an important issue. Of course, Imamat itself is at the core of Bohraism and is extremely important.

Regarding the ritual of touching forehead lips when invoking his name, it was explained to me when I was a child in Madrassa that it signifies silent invocation of the unknown names all the Imams since Tayyib until the current Imam.

Why a similar ritual when invoking Bismillah? I don't know.
ozmujaheed wrote:The reason I am digging in is his position is so central to the Ismaili Bohra ideology and if it is based on some shaky theory then the last 800-1000 years have been tainted too.
I would use the word revised rather than tainted. Certainly, revisionism is a standard practice in the re-writing of history. It may come about either when new information becomes available or done to serve vested interests.
ozmujaheed wrote:You may not believe me but Hon Tayeb must have been a pious man and a respected individual scholar you name it I have no reason to doubt his personality..it is the historians that have probably cooked stories and made him larger than life fr their own agenda.
Imam Tayyib was an infant when he was whisked away into seclusion by his father's close advisors due to a threat to his life. No one has ever seen him since, nor has he be in touch with anyone. Anyone stating otherwise subscribes to a fiction.

aqs
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#79

Unread post by aqs » Tue May 25, 2010 10:41 am

Excellent post Porus,

just a little addition that Molatona Hurratul Maleka knew about the whereabouts of Imam(as)and after her only When First Dai came into position Duar us satr started as then the whereabouts of Imam were totally concealed.

porus
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#80

Unread post by porus » Tue May 25, 2010 11:49 am

porus wrote: Why a similar ritual when invoking Bismillah? I don't know.
Opinion of a Bohra scholar I respect is that the ritual of touching forehead and lips when invoking Bismillah signifies silent invocation of salawaat on Muhammad and al-e-Muhammad.

This is also the case when you recite 'fatiha' for your dead relatives and friends. Mentioning 'al-fatiha' , literally, 'the opening', means praying to Allah to open the doors of his rehmat for the departed and silently invoking salawaat on Muhammad and al-e-Muhammad.

I have not verified this information from any aamil. However, it seems like a good and a reasonable explanation.
aqs wrote:....Molatona Hurratul Maleka knew about the whereabouts of Imam(as).
That is possible although I have not come across that in my reading.

The Dai Lamak was from Yemen and it was he who advised Hurrat al-Malika on the choice of Zoeb bin Musa as the first Dai al-Mutlaq. Dai Zoeb was either his son or a close relative.

Dai Lamak spent many years with Imam Mustansir and was a confidant of later Imams. It is possible that he was in Cairo when Imam Tayyib went into seclusion. He could be the source of the information about his whereabouts for Hurrat al-Malika

aqs
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#81

Unread post by aqs » Tue May 25, 2010 12:09 pm

porus wrote:That is possible although I have not come across that in my reading.

The Dai Lamak was from Yemen and it was he who advised Hurrat al-Malika on the choice of Zoeb bin Musa as the first Dai al-Mutlaq. Dai Zoeb was either his son or a close relative.

Dai Lamak spent many years with Imam Mustansir and was a confidant of later Imams. It is possible that he was in Cairo when Imam Tayyib went into seclusion. He could be the source of the information about his whereabouts for Hurrat al-Malika
Dai Zoeb was selected as per the amr of Imam Aamir (as) and not Dai lamak, Though Dai lamak was in Yemen at that time and was sent before hand to prepare for Dawat as Duar us satr was about to begin.

Daur us satr started on 22nd Shaban 532 H when Moulatana Hurratul Maleka died and Dai Zoeb became the first dai of Daur us satr

porus
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#82

Unread post by porus » Tue May 25, 2010 12:18 pm

aqs wrote:
Dai Zoeb was selected as per the amr of Imam Aamir (as) and not Dai lamak, Though Dai lamak was in Yemen at that time and was sent before hand to prepare for Dawat as Duar us satr was about to begin.

Daur us satr started on 22nd Shaban 532 H when Moulatana Hurratul Maleka died and Dai Zoeb became the first dai of Daur us satr
Yes, Dai Lamak probably recommended Zoeb bin Musa on the authority of Imam Aamir.

I think Dawr as-Satr started when Imam went into seclusion. Between that point and the appointment of the Dai-al-Mutlaq, there was an interregnum when Daawat was solely in the hands of Hurrat al-Malika as she was Imam's Hujjat, a position higher than that of Dai Lamak.

aqs
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#83

Unread post by aqs » Tue May 25, 2010 12:25 pm

porus wrote:
aqs wrote:
Dai Zoeb was selected as per the amr of Imam Aamir (as) and not Dai lamak, Though Dai lamak was in Yemen at that time and was sent before hand to prepare for Dawat as Duar us satr was about to begin.

Daur us satr started on 22nd Shaban 532 H when Moulatana Hurratul Maleka died and Dai Zoeb became the first dai of Daur us satr
Yes, Dai Lamak probably recommended Zoeb bin Musa on the authority of Imam Aamir.

I think Dawr as-Satr started when Imam went into seclusion. Between that point and the appointment of the Dai-al-Mutlaq, there was an interregnum when Daawat was solely in the hands of Hurrat al-Malika as she was Imam's Hujjat, a position higher than that of Dai Lamak.
One of the definition of Daur us satr is that no one knows about the whereabout of Imam(as), and as Moulatana Hurratul Maleka knew about Imam Tyeb(as) whereabouts so Daur us satr started the day she passed away.

porus
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#84

Unread post by porus » Tue May 25, 2010 12:36 pm

aqs wrote: One of the definition of Daur us satr is that no one knows about the whereabout of Imam(as), and as Moulatana Hurratul Maleka knew about Imam Tyeb(as) whereabouts so Daur us satr started the day she passed away.
Good point, aqs.

Although, we can only speculate why she did not reveal the information to the first Dai al-Mutlaq1

This also confirms that no Dai since Malika Hurra has known the whereabouts of the Imam.

SBM
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#85

Unread post by SBM » Tue May 25, 2010 2:28 pm

Br. Aqs and Br. Porus
A good learning lessons from both of you, One thing it seems that Br. Porus has also attended Sabaks and if he did not then it does prove that you can gather knowledge without giving Oath of secrecy.
Now both of you agree that no one knows the whereabout of Imam since Hurrut Al Maleka so if a Dai says that he is being guided by Dai Ul Zamaan, is this imagination?

profastian
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#86

Unread post by profastian » Wed May 26, 2010 2:53 am

omabharti wrote:Br. Aqs and Br. Porus
A good learning lessons from both of you, One thing it seems that Br. Porus has also attended Sabaks and if he did not then it does prove that you can gather knowledge without giving Oath of secrecy.
Now both of you agree that no one knows the whereabout of Imam since Hurrut Al Maleka so if a Dai says that he is being guided by Dai Ul Zamaan, is this imagination?
Nobody knows the exact whereabouts of Allah. so if the Prophet said that he was being guided by Allah, was this imagination?[

ozmujaheed
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#87

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Wed May 26, 2010 8:07 am

Huratul Maleka who was neither a Diai nor an Imam but just a faithful Queen/Administrator, she new about Tayeb's whereabouts but kept it a secret, is this not strange that no one has questioned whether Bohra faith is based on a reliable source ?

When one objectively searches for Queen Arwa who is Huratul Maleka, there are stories she chose political alliance of Al Tayeb due to political rivalry with her opponents in Cairo. Is it not strange and contradictory when Shias object to Abubakrs political position yet here we are fine with Queen Arwa endorsing a creation of Diai system that defines your lives today . Has anyone iven deep though our is this blind faith ? Surely none believes she was masum too but only a loyal subject to an Imam like many loyalists today who naively create madehs such as Sajada tuje wajib he?

profastian
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#88

Unread post by profastian » Wed May 26, 2010 8:38 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Huratul Maleka who was neither a Diai nor an Imam but just a faithful Queen/Administrator, she new about Tayeb's whereabouts but kept it a secret, is this not strange that no one has questioned whether Bohra faith is based on a reliable source ?

When one objectively searches for Queen Arwa who is Huratul Maleka, there are stories she chose political alliance of Al Tayeb due to political rivalry with her opponents in Cairo. Is it not strange and contradictory when Shias object to Abubakrs political position yet here we are fine with Queen Arwa endorsing a creation of Diai system that defines your lives today . Has anyone iven deep though our is this blind faith ? Surely none believes she was masum too but only a loyal subject to an Imam like many loyalists today who naively create madehs such as Sajada tuje wajib he?
She was much more than a common loyalist. As has been mentioned she was Hujjat to the Imam.

porus
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#89

Unread post by porus » Wed May 26, 2010 9:08 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Huratul Maleka who was neither a Diai nor an Imam but just a faithful Queen/Administrator, she new about Tayeb's whereabouts but kept it a secret, is this not strange that no one has questioned whether Bohra faith is based on a reliable source ?
Look, I have already explained this here before. Queen Hurra was Imam's Hujjat, a position to which she was nominated by the Imam. She ranks higher than a Dai. Whether Hurra knew about Tayyib's whereabouts is debatable. Personally, I believe that she did not know; hence keeping it secret from her Dai does not arise.

Faith of the Bohras is Islam and its specific interpretation had already been established long before Imam Tayyib. Faith's expression in literature was compiled and published in Imam Moiz's time. While their sources are as reliable as any, revisionism of interpretation is a constant in all human history.
ozmujaheed wrote:When one objectively searches for Queen Arwa who is Huratul Maleka, there are stories she chose political alliance of Al Tayeb due to political rivalry with her opponents in Cairo.
That is false. Queen Hurra's father-in-law was a commander in Imam Musransir's army. He conquered Makka in Imam's name and was granted sovereignty over Yemen. His heir, his son, abdicated in favor of his wife Hurra. All this happened long before Imam Tayyib.
ozmujaheed wrote:Is it not strange and contradictory when Shias object to Abubakrs political position yet here we are fine with Queen Arwa endorsing a creation of Diai system that defines your lives today .
The Dai system has existed in some form since the time of Imam Jafar al-Sadiq. Some may say ever since the time of the Prophet. The specific position and title of Dai al-Mutlaq was established by Queen Hurra. Please note that there is no question of 'usurpation' of Imam's entitlement to his leadership.

In the case of Abu Bakr, objection arises from his disobedience of the Prophet. This has been covered many times on this board.
ozmujaheed wrote:Has anyone iven deep though our is this blind faith ? Surely none believes she was masum too but only a loyal subject to an Imam like many loyalists today who naively create madehs such as Sajada tuje wajib he?
Faith is, by definition, blind. My opinion is that the the last Masum was Imam Husain. No Imam after Husain, Hujjat or Dai can claim to be Masum. There is no justification for it in the Quran

Sajda to anyone except Allah is shirk.

profastian
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Re: Does Imam Taiyyeb really exist ???

#90

Unread post by profastian » Wed May 26, 2010 9:13 am

porus wrote: My opinion is that the the last Masum was Imam Husain. No Imam after Husain, Hujjat or Dai can claim to be Masum. There is no justification for it in the Quran
And where in Quran is there justification for Hussain being a Masum?