Dream Project of Bhendi Bazar

[aqs]

Dear brother aqs,
As for your question:

Is Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (tus) Dail Mutlaq and true vicegerent of Imam or not??

Part -I

Insaaf Saheb,

you have twisted my question, here is what i asked, it was a direct question to you and you are skirting it with all ill founded reasonings.

Insaaf saheb,

I simply asked you, do you believe

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin(tus) as Dail Mutlaq and true vicegerent of Imam or not??

yes or no

Please see the front page of a “Dastoorul Amal” (Constitution) for rich and poor Bohras constituted by Namdar Sakhidatar Seth Adamji Peerbhoy Rafiuddin Saheb Sallamullah-o-Ta’allah and made public by then 49th Dai, Syedna wa Molana Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb Sallamullah-o-Ta’allah, some 125 year ago. 49th Dawoodi Bohra Dai, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb was father of 51st Dai, Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb and grand father of present 52nd Dai, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb.

This booklet which i do not have a hold of is taken out by cronies of Adam Peerbhoy, please give some proof that it was made Public by then Syedna(aq). If today Reformists bring out a book and on cover page they write Mr. Engineer's name as the true leader of the Bohra's will it hold any water, say after 125 years??

From the cover page of booklet attached here you can very well see that:

1) There is no TUS or Dai-ul-Mutlaq after 49th Dai’s name.

2) There no claim of Dai being vicegerent of Imam in seclusion any where.

3) There is no Abde-Syedna before Seth Adamji’s name.

4) Sallamullah-o-Ta’allah is used both for Dai as well as common Bohra, Seth Adamji.

In the first line of his name he writes Sakhi Datar (most generous) and for all the above 4 points, it only shows how Adam PeerBhoy used to think highly of himself. He has used the same titles for Syedna(aq) and himself and if he writes or not TUS or Dail Mutlaq does not change the facts, its his booklet he can write whatever he wants.

5) 49th Dai, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb used to stay at Surat in Devdi and Seth Adamji in Bombay in Peerbhoy Palace . So the booklet has ‘Press Line’ of Bombay ’s Al-Bayan Press.


6) Boldest letters are of “Sudhara naa Kaaydaa” – ‘Reformed Customs”, clearly showing that earlier Dais had no allergy or hatred with word “Reform”.

where has present Stream shown any allergy to word "Reform", Infact In last 2 Syedna's era dawat has gone through many reforms against which you are fighting

7) The reform was for the Bohras of the areas of Sir Adamji’s influence, Kathiyawad, Jhalawad, Halwad and Sorth.

Reason for the urgency of this reform was the incoming prosperity in the community at the threshold of 20th Centaury and lavish spending by neo-rich Bohras during marriages, majlis, fateha jaman etc on one side and acute poverty and indebtness of their Dai on the other side.

these kind of pamphlet were a common sight in that era as Dawat was not centralised in the way its today, so today all such farmans come from Dawate Hadiya and hold more weight then coming from the landlords of the area

Dais before 51st Dai were so poor and helpless that in 1891 an Amil of 49th Dai, Sheikh Abdul Tyeb tried to put him in Jail for non-payment of his loaned amount of Rs. 50,000 given on simple interest amounting to Rs. 4000 – total Rs. 54000.

(Justice Martin in Chandabhoy Galla had observed that 49th Dai neither excommunicated this audacious Amil nor stopped his vazifa by Jamat and nor punished him. This clearly establishes that there was no concept excommunication or Jamatkharij and it is of recent addition.)

Dais before 50th Dai were poor and in debt and it took a lot of efforts on the part of Syedna Badruddin to clear off the debt, The sole reason was that Dawoodi Bohras as a community were not prosperous enough and dawat was not centralised as of today.

[aziz]

so if the dais before were poor or the dawat was poor you want it to remain the same even now?,at that time the jamaats were run by people like you who did not want ordinary bohras to get barakat fron the dai so they remained poor hence the dawat was also poor but due to efforts of syedna badruddin, syedna saifuddin and today our moula. moomineen have barakat in their houses and do a lot of khidmat which results in more barakat and this hurts your progs leaders as they cannot influence the dawoodi bohras as they used to 40 to 50 yrs ago, ,,,
you can also trust insaap to dig up old obscure publications to prove his lies and falsehoods,,why dont you read the books of us dawoodi bohras which are authentic and then prove your points,you might also learn whats going to happen to youinthose books

[aziz]

check the quran majid and you will find that the word baraat is mentioned there ,and we dawoodi bohras have baraat with anybody who is an enemy of our moula tus,

[incredible]

check the quran majid and you will find that the word baraat is mentioned there ,and we dawoodi bohras have baraat with anybody who is an enemy of our moula tus,

can u post that ayat?

[porus]

check the quran majid and you will find that the word baraat is mentioned there ,and we dawoodi bohras have baraat with anybody who is an enemy of our moula tus,

If you want anyone to take your advice to read the Quran, you have to provide the actual surat and ayat and also the context of the ayat. Otherwise, it is simply hot air.

Bara'at has several meanings, primary one derives from bari' meaning 'to free'. The other word derived from it is al-Ba'ari', which means Creator or Allah. (Popularly Allah is called Baari-Ta'ala.)

In 9:1, the word Bara'at is used by Allah to declare the treaty with mushrikeen null and void.

In 54:43, the word Bara'at is used to question the Kuffar if they have been absolved by Allah from obedience to Him.

However, the use of Bara'at as an instrument of punishment for 'believers' or Muslims finds no sanction in the Quran and the word Bara'at is not used for that purpose.

[incredible]

check the quran majid and you will find that the word baraat is mentioned there ,and we dawoodi bohras have baraat with anybody who is an enemy of our moula tus,

inshort what porus mean to say is aviod quoting Quraan unless and untill u have an idea about what u are talking about...i know u have never read quraan with translation so better keep that job for others who know book of ALLAH or atleast those who have read book with translation.

[aziz]

the translation provided by sahih international for the ayat 9;1 is below ,this is the literal translation and not the context or the taawil 1) [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
by yusufali
2)A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
by shakir
3)This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.

by dr ghali
4)An acquittal from Allah and His Messenger to the ones of the associators (Those who associate others with Allah) (with) whom you have covenanted:.
by tafseer al jalalyn
5)This is: A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to, reach, the idolaters with whom you made a pact, a pact for an indefinite period of time, or one for [a period of] less than, or more than, four months; the annulment of the pact shall be as God mentions in His saying:

by pickthall
6)Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty.



there you have it one ayat of quran has been translated in 6 different ways by 6 people which is correct and which is not,no wander muslims are a confused people,and on this forum we have people harping about all to follow quran ,now what do you follow,, the first literal translation is the closest to the arabic meaning of the ayat, and you can see the word disassociation from allah and his messenger to all mushriqun ,,today for us bohras this are the progs

[incredible]

^ isnt it funny you curse muslims and u count them inferior in majlis's,but when it comes to fetch tranlslation of quraan u are mohtaaj of their websites?


why no amil ever thought to translate quraan and keep that copy open for public?

[incredible]

the translation provided by sahih international for the ayat 9;1 is below ,this is the literal translation and not the context or the taawil 1) [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
by yusufali
2)A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
by shakir
3)This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.

by dr ghali
4)An acquittal from Allah and His Messenger to the ones of the associators (Those who associate others with Allah) (with) whom you have covenanted:.
by tafseer al jalalyn
5)This is: A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to, reach, the idolaters with whom you made a pact, a pact for an indefinite period of time, or one for [a period of] less than, or more than, four months; the annulment of the pact shall be as God mentions in His saying:

by pickthall
6)Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty.



there you have it one ayat of quran has been translated in 6 different ways by 6 people which is correct and which is not,no wander muslims are a confused people,and on this forum we have people harping about all to follow quran ,now what do you follow,, the first literal translation is the closest to the arabic meaning of the ayat, and you can see the word disassociation from allah and his messenger to all mushriqun ,,today for us bohras this are the progs

if you can read english u can simply understand rule for baraat(excommunication) is for unbelivers and mushriqun it was never ment for muslims or belivers.

[incredible]

there you have it one ayat of quran has been translated in 6 different ways by 6 people which is correct and which is not,no wander muslims are a confused people,and on this forum we have people harping about all to follow quran ,now what do you follow,, the first literal translation is the closest to the arabic meaning of the ayat, and you can see the word disassociation from allah and his messenger to all mushriqun ,,today for us bohras this are the progs

who ever belives in Allah and ahlul bayt cant be counted mushriqun....or do u have any personal surah to support your theology?

[aziz]

today the ahle baht of panjatan is imamuzaman sa and in his chair the duats and you do not believe in the duats so draw your own conclusions,the dawoodi bohra belief is that if you do not believe in the dailmutlaq our syedna tus you are a mushriq if claim to be a dawoodi bohra,,,, as for reading from their transalations it just goes to prove that quran cannot be translated by anyone,just see one ayat has been translated 6 different ways and before harping check i said that its the literal translation only ,,no tranlater can describe the hidden meaning in each of the ayats and still you believe their translations to be the word of allah,, i have just googled for the first time only one ayat and it has 6 completely different meanings so can incredible please tell me if he knows which is the one really meant by allah ,, is it pickthall or yusufali or is it shakir or some other dude ,am sure all muslims are confused...,, you claim to know book of allah better so answer and remember this is just one ayat

[Aarif]

but due to efforts of syedna badruddin, syedna saifuddin and today our moula. moomineen have barakat in their houses and do a lot of khidmat which results in more barakat

Aziz,
Yes, there is a lot of Barakaat in Syedna's house due to the efforts and hard earned money of mumineen. Also, the more Khidmat the mumineen do of Syedna and his family the more Barakaat increases in Syedna's house. Please note that I do not have any problem with that. However, I have a problem when some not so well to do mumineen who cannot afford to do Khidmat of Syedna are forced into it by Kothar. The reformists do not have a problem with bohras willingly donating money to their Dai. They only have a problem with the Dai and his administration forcefully extorting money from poor mumineen in the name of religion... I hope you understand the difference between the two...

[Aarif]

the dawoodi bohra belief is that if you do not believe in the dailmutlaq our syedna tus you are a mushriq if claim to be a dawoodi bohra

This is more like a brain washed Abde Syedna belief rather than a Dawoodi bohra belief. As I have already discussed with you in another thread that whatever Syedna is doing is UnIslamic. And if that is the case than should you follow prophet, Ahle-e-bait and Quran or should you follow the deviant Syedna and his family?

[S. Insaf]

Dear aqs,

Is Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (tus) Dail Mutlaq and true vicegerent of Imam or not??

I would like you to go through the learned judge, Justice Martine's observation and remark in Chandabhoy Galla which has an answer for your above query:
"When asked to account for the funds of Galla the defendant Mullaji Saheb (Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb) through his advocate Mr. Binning claimed that 'He is not accountable to any one save God and Imam in seclusion as he is vicegerent of Imam, that he is infallible and that he is not subject to the law of the land. But he could not produce a single instance of these extreme claims having been claimed and exercised by any Mullaji Saheb prior to the present suit. He could not even show that these claims have ever been put forward prior to this suit, I have given careful consideration after going through the principal religious books in this community: 1) The Koran, 2) The Hadees, 3) the Nehjul Balaga. In non of these are claims which Mullaji Saheb is now makes specifically put forward. His Counsel admitted that he had no religious authority to show in precise words that the Mullaji could take away trust funds and property under deed, will or scheme.
In fact the claims made here have nothing to do with the tenets of the Daudi Bohras. According to this faith the Mullaji Saheb is no more than a representative of the Imam in seclusion. He has to act on Imam's behalf and has no right whatsoever to temper with the laws of Shair'ah or any other tenets of the faith."
So brother all Hi Fi claims, Dai-ul-Mutlaq, vicegerent of Imam, Infallible, His Holiness, master of soul, body and property of Bohras, Sole-Trustee, Sultanul-Bawahir, Shamshul-Duatul-Mutlaqeen and even representative of God on earth etc. made by Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb for the first time in the history of the community, were only with one aim: To take forcible control over the community's wealth and properties and build his own unparallel financial empire. And he was successful.

[incredible]

today the ahle baht of panjatan is imamuzaman sa and in his chair the duats and you do not believe in the duats so draw your own conclusions,the dawoodi bohra belief is that if you do not believe in the dailmutlaq our syedna tus you are a mushriq if claim to be a dawoodi bohra,,,, as for reading from their transalations it just goes to prove that quran cannot be translated by anyone,just see one ayat has been translated 6 different ways and before harping check i said that its the literal translation only ,,no tranlater can describe the hidden meaning in each of the ayats and still you believe their translations to be the word of allah,, i have just googled for the first time only one ayat and it has 6 completely different meanings so can incredible please tell me if he knows which is the one really meant by allah ,, is it pickthall or yusufali or is it shakir or some other dude ,am sure all muslims are confused...,, you claim to know book of allah better so answer and remember this is just one ayat

not just for once but fools like u have tried to alter real meaning of quraan for there own benefits,ahmediyaa,aghaakhani use quraan to prove there leaders to be imam and prophet,same way u are altering meaning of quraan to satisfy your own motos.quraan is much above of your lies which u utter.

[aqs]

Dear aqs,

Is Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (tus) Dail Mutlaq and true vicegerent of Imam or not??

I would like you to go through the learned judge, Justice Martine's observation and remark in Chandabhoy Galla which has an answer for your above query:
"When asked to account for the funds of Galla the defendant Mullaji Saheb (Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb) through his advocate Mr. Binning claimed that 'He is not accountable to any one save God and Imam in seclusion as he is vicegerent of Imam, that he is infallible and that he is not subject to the law of the land. But he could not produce a single instance of these extreme claims having been claimed and exercised by any Mullaji Saheb prior to the present suit. He could not even show that these claims have ever been put forward prior to this suit, I have given careful consideration after going through the principal religious books in this community: 1) The Koran, 2) The Hadees, 3) the Nehjul Balaga. In non of these are claims which Mullaji Saheb is now makes specifically put forward. His Counsel admitted that he had no religious authority to show in precise words that the Mullaji could take away trust funds and property under deed, will or scheme.
In fact the claims made here have nothing to do with the tenets of the Daudi Bohras. According to this faith the Mullaji Saheb is no more than a representative of the Imam in seclusion. He has to act on Imam's behalf and has no right whatsoever to temper with the laws of Shair'ah or any other tenets of the faith."
So brother all Hi Fi claims, Dai-ul-Mutlaq, vicegerent of Imam, Infallible, His Holiness, master of soul, body and property of Bohras, Sole-Trustee, Sultanul-Bawahir, Shamshul-Duatul-Mutlaqeen and even representative of God on earth etc. made by Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb for the first time in the history of the community, were only with one aim: To take forcible control over the community's wealth and properties and build his own unparallel financial empire. And he was successful.

Sir, this court case is discussed just too many times on this board and in spite of your best attempts you have never been able to prove why Adam Peerbhoy and his associates lost the case and court upheld the position of Syedna Taher Saifuddin(tus).

Court had ruled in favor of Syedna (aq) and upheld his position that he is the Dail Mutlaq and a proper nass was done by 46th Dai Syedna Najmuddin(aq) on his successor.

and my question still remains unanswered

Do you believe Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (tus) Dail Mutlaq and true vicegerent of Imam or not?

[aziz]

it is you who is appearing to be very foolish still believing in translations of quran when i just proved that there are 6 i repeat 6 all different translations of one ayat ,
so if claim to read the true quran kindly enlighten us on which translation is the correct one..it you who is the fool changing the meaning of the quran majid ,and show me where and which lies i have said about the quran,,
please post where and when we have tried to alter the real meaning of the quran and please tell us the real meaning of the ayat which has 6 translations ,,
and please please post the real meaning of the ayat which unaltered by dawoodi bohras,agakhanis or maybe obama or bush or anybody else since you follow the real quran ,inorder not to appear foolish and stupid

[incredible]

translation of ayat is to excommunicate for unbelievers and munafiq present in those days.....in no circumstances it can be altered to prove that u are right to excommunicate a believer and a Muslim.

[accountability]

Aqs et all
Let me start by pledging that I believe in dawoodi bohra religion and I believe that syedna mohammed burhanuddin is the Dai. Having said that.
I have been reading posts regarding syedna saheb’s status. Most of you guy treat him at par with God, which he never claimed to be. You say that he is infallible, he is innocent ( of what), he is ultimate summoner, He has the ultimate knowledge, about what it is not said.
I have read Qadi Noman’s book of taawil, Half of it does not make sense, the rest is medieval intelegence. In 21st century when nature is so much open to us and we almost know the architecture of human creation, actually creation. it is hard to swallow 12th century rhetorical interpretation of 500 years old doctorine.
You say that he is vicegerent of imam, who is in seclusion, but is survived by his off springs to date. Dai being his vicegerent may know his where about. May also know how he wants Fatimid doctrine interpreted. You say he has ultimate healing power. His daughter died of cancer in Karachi. His brother recently died of some disease.
Recently some one quoted an ayah from quran, in which god asks to do baraat against mushriqeen. How could this ayah fit on syedna sahib ‘s status. Is he god, which he is not, god has asked to do baraat on mushriqeen, what is the meaning of mushriq, one who mixes with ultimate one ness of god, and makes some one else his accomplice or partner. God has no shareek, in surah ikhlas he confirms, that nor did he was born by any one neither any one born by him. That is oneness, syedna sahib has seven or eight sons and three daughters, he is not the ultimate one, he already has shareek. How could any one do shirq on him, though he already has shareek.
This is one example for those who are bent upon justifying godliness for him, though he has never claimed as such. Recently he had a major surgery done on him, he publicly admitted that, and even requested for prayer.
Quoting and misquoting Quranic ayahs to justify exorbitant claims has become a norm.
Syedna Al-Qadi An-Nauman Abu Hanifa An-Nauman bin Abi Abdillah Mohammed bin Mansoor bin Hayun At-Tamimi Al-Maghribi. Our source of fiqah, had no known religion, it is widely believed that he was maliki. He was chief justice, so he had to read fiqah, daim ul islam is our source of fiqah, I did not find one reference that says that Dai is infallible and or for that matter imams were infallible. He served four imams mahdi, qaim, mansoor and moiz. He passed away in moiz’s time.

In his book Asaas ut Tawil, he eloberates on lives of prophets, but he did not compare any prophet to god, or an all knower.

I have seen that every one attributes godly qualities to syedna without any refrence. Quranic verses are quoted out of context. If you are quoting from quran, then you have to know that quran in its present configuration was compiled by Othman.

[aqs]

Aqs et all
Let me start by pledging that I believe in dawoodi bohra religion and I believe that syedna mohammed burhanuddin is the Dai. Having said that.
I have been reading posts regarding syedna saheb’s status. Most of you guy treat him at par with God, which he never claimed to be. You say that he is infallible, he is innocent ( of what), he is ultimate summoner, He has the ultimate knowledge, about what it is not said.

Salaam,

its quite a sensible post peppered with few flaws.
I as an individual do not treat him on Par with Allah, he is a Dai and thats it, not any thing more nor any thing less, no kulu or gulu.
now he is infaliable, masoom only because Imam(as) is in seclusion and he is working on his behalf, and as you have mentioned that you have read Tawil books so i presume you have the knowledge that what a Dai's status is in Daur us satr.

he has the ultimate knowledge of whatever Imam knows, so it virtually covers each and every thing.

I have read Qadi Noman’s book of taawil, Half of it does not make sense, the rest is medieval intelegence. In 21st century when nature is so much open to us and we almost know the architecture of human creation, actually creation. it is hard to swallow 12th century rhetorical interpretation of 500 years old doctorine.

which tawil book are you talking about

You say that he is vicegerent of imam, who is in seclusion, but is survived by his off springs to date. Dai being his vicegerent may know his where about. May also know how he wants Fatimid doctrine interpreted.

as far as i know a dai does not know where abouts of Imam(as). he gets Ilham from Imam thats it, as he is the Dai and working on behalf of Imam(as) so he will know how Imam(as) wants Fatimid Doctrine to be interpreted

You say he has ultimate healing power. His daughter died of cancer in Karachi. His brother recently died of some disease.

Death is the ultimate truth and no one can escape. their are thousands of people who are cured by Syedna(tus) but in the cases mentione by you it must be in their qaza to die with the disease.

Recently some one quoted an ayah from quran, in which god asks to do baraat against mushriqeen. How could this ayah fit on syedna sahib ‘s status. Is he god, which he is not, god has asked to do baraat on mushriqeen, what is the meaning of mushriq, one who mixes with ultimate one ness of god, and makes some one else his accomplice or partner. God has no shareek, in surah ikhlas he confirms, that nor did he was born by any one neither any one born by him. That is oneness, syedna sahib has seven or eight sons and three daughters, he is not the ultimate one, he already has shareek. How could any one do shirq on him, though he already has shareek. This is one example for those who are bent upon justifying godliness for him, though he has never claimed as such. Recently he had a major surgery done on him, he publicly admitted that, and even requested for prayer.
Quoting and misquoting Quranic ayahs to justify exorbitant claims has become a norm.

Already mentioned above he is a Dai and thats it

Syedna Al-Qadi An-Nauman Abu Hanifa An-Nauman bin Abi Abdillah Mohammed bin Mansoor bin Hayun At-Tamimi Al-Maghribi. Our source of fiqah, had no known religion, it is widely believed that he was maliki. He was chief justice, so he had to read fiqah, daim ul islam is our source of fiqah, I did not find one reference that says that Dai is infallible and or for that matter imams were infallible. He served four imams mahdi, qaim, mansoor and moiz. He passed away in moiz’s time.

Syedna Al-Qadi An-Nauman is not the only source of Fiqh we have

In his book Asaas ut Tawil, he eloberates on lives of prophets, but he did not compare any prophet to god, or an all knower.
I have seen that every one attributes godly qualities to syedna without any refrence. Quranic verses are quoted out of context. If you are quoting from quran,.

rather than elaboration he deals with taawil of all the common ambiya byaans. people who quote out of context are the ones like me who dont have enough knowledge, this is the sole reason i avoid it .

then you have to know that quran in its present configuration was compiled by Othman

its a general misconcept, it was compile in his era of Khilafat but it was done by 10 people appointed by First Sunni Khalifa and all those 10 people commitee were Moula Ali(as) shia who worked under his guidance. so ideally it was compiled by Moula Ali(as). And you might very well know that why it is said that Uthman burnt the Quran.

[profastian]

we almost know the architecture of human creation

Please enlighten us too about the architecture of human creation that we almost know about.
The fact is that we don't know an iota about "the architecture of human creation".

[Muslim First]

aqs
Death is the ultimate truth and no one can escape. their are thousands of people who are cured by Syedna(tus) but in the cases mentione by you it must be in their qaza to die with the disease.

Did Allah have any role?
This proves aqs believes Dai ia Allah.

the cases mentione by you it must be in their qaza to die with the disease.

As usual if cured Did gets credit otherwise it is qaza (whatever it is).

its a general misconcept, it was compile in his era of Khilafat but it was done by 10 people appointed by First Sunni Khalifa and all those 10 people commitee were Moula Ali(as) shia who worked under his guidance. so ideally it was compiled by Moula Ali(as). And you might very well know that why it is said that Uthman burnt the Quran.

10 people appointed by First Sunni Khalifa and all those 10 people commitee were Moula Ali(as) shia

Trying to clear up a misconception with another misconception?

There was no sunnism or shiasm for many years after the Prophets death. Even Imam Jaafar was not a sunni or a shia. They all were plain and simple Muslims.

I am glad at least one pucca shia thinks Qur'an was put together by Shias. I hope all shia adopt this view and will end carping about composition of the Qur'an.

Ramadan Mubarak in advance.

[abd]

3) There is no Abde-Syedna before Seth Adamji’s name.

4) Sallamullah-o-Ta’allah is used both for Dai as well as common Bohra, Seth Adamji.

Well, if this is how a forefront khidmatguzar gets his name printed at almost same level of a Dai on the cover of a booklet, it just reflects how feeble were the aqa'ids of mumineen then. How difficult or almost unimaginable must have it been for Molanal Muqaddas Syedna Tahir Saifuddin (AQ) to get the house in order. May Allah give him Khair Jazaa in Jannatul Firdaus for elevating mumineen's Aqaids and Marefat to what they are today.

[aqs]

@Muslim First

Yes very much Allah and Allah alone has a role. Our Moula (tus) has thought us Tasbeeh of Ibrahim Nabi

waiza marizto fahova yashfeen(i fell ill its he(Allha) who cures)

[abd]

Dais before 51st Dai were so poor and helpless that in 1891 an Amil of 49th Dai, Sheikh Abdul Tyeb tried to put him in Jail for non-payment of his loaned amount of Rs. 50,000 given on simple interest amounting to Rs. 4000 – total Rs. 54000.

Mr. Insaf, you appeared to be allergic only to dais since Syedna Abdulqader Najmuddin (AQ), 47th dai. But that's not true. Its just your disguise. Your words above clearly shows what regards you possess for the dua't in general. You call them "poor and helpless". Na'auzobillah. Your words reflect your true aqaeeds which you try to hide under the pretext of reforms.

6) Boldest letters are of “Sudhara naa Kaaydaa” – ‘Reformed Customs”, clearly showing that earlier Dais had no allergy or hatred with word “Reform”.

In spite of a number of times being asked by many, you haven't answered a simple question yet:
Do you consider Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin(tus) as Dail Mutlaq and true vicegerent of Imam or not??

You and your so called reforms remind us of Verse 11 of Sura Baqara:

2:11
Translation : Sahih International
And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."

Link: http://quran.com/2

[incredible]

@Muslim First

Yes very much Allah and Allah alone has a role. Our Moula (tus) has thought us Tasbeeh of Ibrahim Nabi

waiza marizto fahova yashfeen(i fell ill its he(Allha) who cures)

sorry to burst your bubble,but this is not some thing only bohra knows,every muslim does same tasbeeh,rasulullah and panjatan have tought this tasbeeh.

[aziz]

check the tasbeeh of sunnis and confirm whether they say salwat on the ale bayt rasullah sa,i do not know so find out and then confirm which ahle bayt they say salawaat on whether its panjatan and imams or the three (hazrats)

[accountability]

Salam Brother Aqs

"now he is infaliable, masoom only because Imam(as) is in seclusion and he is working on his behalf, and as you have mentioned that you have read Tawil books so i presume you have the knowledge that what a Dai's status is in Daur us satr."

In Daim ul Islam or tawil ud daim, nowhere it is said that imams were infallible or masoom. In daur us satr he is equivilent of imam's status. Even there are no refrences regarding functionality of dai or its institution. so if imams were not infallible or masoom, how could dai be. If you have refrences please quote, may be i missed it.

what is infallibility or innocence for a human being. if it means that person is free from human errors, that is impossible, dont you think that he would have forgotten where did he put his glass, or where is his tasbeeh or forgot the name of person he just met, if that is so then no one is masoom or infallible. Porus bhai can enlighten us more about infallibiltiy or innocence. Even in quran i did not find that Allah has said so and so is error free. Human is to err.

All our imams and dais were and are human with total human configuration, so why should and would we expect them to be flawless, what good would it do to religion by declaring infallibility or innocence. Or in other words why would religion need these human to be error free.

[aqs]

@Muslim First

Yes very much Allah and Allah alone has a role. Our Moula (tus) has thought us Tasbeeh of Ibrahim Nabi

waiza marizto fahova yashfeen(i fell ill its he(Allha) who cures)

sorry to burst your bubble,but this is not some thing only bohra knows,every muslim does same tasbeeh,rasulullah and panjatan have tought this tasbeeh.

Thanks Incredible

But did i claim that only Bohra knows this tasbeeh, i only talked about who thought us, You might knew it before but i and countless others came to knew it at the time of opening of Saifee Hospital, its even inscribed at the main entrance of Saifee Hospital.

[Muslim First]

Aziz
check the tasbeeh of sunnis and confirm whether they say salwat on the ale bayt rasullah sa,i do not know so find out and then confirm which ahle bayt they say salawaat on whether its panjatan and imams or the three (hazrats)

Br. Aziz

AS

We say what we call Dooru-e-Ibrahim in all prayares.

It goes like this


1DUROOD-E-IBRAHIMI

ALLAHUMMA SALLI ALA MUHAMMADIW WA ALA AALI MUHAMMADIN KAMAA SALLAITA ALA IBRAHIMA WA ALA AALI IBRAHIMA INNAKA HAMIDUM MAJID. ALLAHUMMA BAARIK ALA MUHAMMADIW WA ALA AALI MUHAMMADIN KAMAA BAARAKTA ALA IBRAHIMA WA ALA AALI IBRAHIMA INNAKA HAMIDUM MAJID.

"O Allah, let Your Blessings come upon Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, as you have blessed Ibrahim and his family. Truly, You are Praiseworthy and Glorious. Allah, bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, as you have blessed Ibrahim and his family. Truly, You are Praiseworthy and Glorious".

The famous companion of the Prophet (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallim), Hazrat Ka'ab bin Ujrah (radi Allahu anhu), narrates that once it was enquired from Sayyiduna Rasoolullah (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallim) as to how blessings should be sent to him. The Prophet (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallim) replied that the blessings be said in the manner (it has been mentioned) above, that is, Durood-e-Ibrahimi.

Now you judge if the Family of Muhammad SAW contains 3 Hazarats or not. Remember they were relatives by marrige but not part of immediate family.

Please feel free to ask and clear your doubts about Islam as practiced by majority of Muslims.

Wasalaam