DB-A Personality Cult with Sinister Mind Control

[murtaza2152]

@Israfild,

Would you please enlighten us what is the maqam of Dail Mutlaq in Imas Satar , Is it same as Doats of Imam's zuhoor time ?

Is maqam of Dail Mutlaq is elevated in Imam satar or its same as Imams zuhoor ?
Is Dail Mutlaq maqam a normal person or having spiritual benefits from Imam ?

[israfild]

@Israfild,

Would you please enlighten us what is the maqam of Dail Mutlaq in Imas Satar , Is it same as Doats of Imam's zuhoor time ?

Is maqam of Dail Mutlaq is elevated in Imam satar or its same as Imams zuhoor ?
Is Dail Mutlaq maqam a normal person or having spiritual benefits from Imam ?

Dear Murtaza,

Assalaamulaikum,

Role of Dai:
1.) During the times where the Imams (AS) did not have to go underground, there were Dai's of Imam (AS) sent to various kingdoms to call the people there to the path of Islam.
2.) The role of the Dai is to convey the message of Islam as per the instructions of the Imam (AS)
3.) To do the above the Dai (who is a regular non-masoom human being) has to be pious, knowledgeable, and a person of great character. The personality traits and the rules are fairly well listed in one of the other threads in this forum.
4.) The responsibilities of Dai-uz-zamaan (TUS) during the Satr times is even more. However, the role still remains the same, i.e. of conveying the message of Allah as per the instructions of Imaam (AS). In the current case, it would be the instructions handed down from previous Dai (TUS) to the next Dai (TUS).

Spiritual Benifits:
1.) The Dai enjoys the benefits of additional Knowledge from the imam (AS) which is now passed on from previous Dai (TUS) to the nex Dai (TUS)
2.) Therefore, No, The Dai does not enjoy any additional direct spiritual benefits. he is a non-masoom person with high levels of character, knowledge and piety.

I hope i have answered your queries.

[profastian]

@Israfild,

Would you please enlighten us what is the maqam of Dail Mutlaq in Imas Satar , Is it same as Doats of Imam's zuhoor time ?

Is maqam of Dail Mutlaq is elevated in Imam satar or its same as Imams zuhoor ?
Is Dail Mutlaq maqam a normal person or having spiritual benefits from Imam ?

Dear Murtaza,

Assalaamulaikum,

Role of Dai:
1.) During the times where the Imams (AS) did not have to go underground, there were Dai's of Imam (AS) sent to various kingdoms to call the people there to the path of Islam.
2.) The role of the Dai is to convey the message of Islam as per the instructions of the Imam (AS)
3.) To do the above the Dai (who is a regular non-masoom human being) has to be pious, knowledgeable, and a person of great character. The personality traits and the rules are fairly well listed in one of the other threads in this forum.
4.) The responsibilities of Dai-uz-zamaan (TUS) during the Satr times is even more. However, the role still remains the same, i.e. of conveying the message of Allah as per the instructions of Imaam (AS). In the current case, it would be the instructions handed down from previous Dai (TUS) to the next Dai (TUS).

Spiritual Benifits:
1.) The Dai enjoys the benefits of additional Knowledge from the imam (AS) which is now passed on from previous Dai (TUS) to the nex Dai (TUS)
2.) Therefore, No, The Dai does not enjoy any additional direct spiritual benefits. he is a non-masoom person with high levels of character, knowledge and piety.

I hope i have answered your queries.

Your source for this dribble?

[israfild]

Your source for this dribble?

Dear Profastian,

Assalamualaikum,

I have to admit, I cannot present any references.

However, if you believe anything in contrary to what i have stated, you are most welcome to correct me with references. I shall be glad to correct any mistakes that i may have made.

Looking forward.

[profastian]

@Israfild,

Would you please enlighten us what is the maqam of Dail Mutlaq in Imas Satar , Is it same as Doats of Imam's zuhoor time ?

Is maqam of Dail Mutlaq is elevated in Imam satar or its same as Imams zuhoor ?
Is Dail Mutlaq maqam a normal person or having spiritual benefits from Imam ?

Dear Murtaza,

Assalaamulaikum,

Role of Dai:
1.) During the times where the Imams (AS) did not have to go underground, there were Dai's of Imam (AS) sent to various kingdoms to call the people there to the path of Islam.
2.) The role of the Dai is to convey the message of Islam as per the instructions of the Imam (AS)
3.) To do the above the Dai (who is a regular non-masoom human being) has to be pious, knowledgeable, and a person of great character. The personality traits and the rules are fairly well listed in one of the other threads in this forum.
4.) The responsibilities of Dai-uz-zamaan (TUS) during the Satr times is even more. However, the role still remains the same,(The role is distinctly different in case of DAI mutlaq. Imam Mustureen also went into seclusion, but the DAIs they left had a distinctly different role from Tayyibi Duats. The Tayyibis Duat are Masoomeen. The Prophet himself predicted the Masoomiyat of the Duats(no references here. attend sabaks) i.e. of conveying the message of Allah as per the instructions of Imaam (AS). In the current case, it would be the instructions handed down from previous Dai (TUS) to the next Dai (TUS).

Spiritual Benifits:
1.) The Dai enjoys the benefits of additional Knowledge from the imam (AS) which is now passed on from previous Dai (TUS) to the nex Dai (TUS)
2.) Therefore, No, The Dai does not enjoy any additional direct spiritual benefits. he is a non-masoom person with high levels of character, knowledge and piety. (Not in case of DAI-ul-multaq)

I hope i have answered your queries.

[Aarif]

Since you do not understand the difference between not saying anything against the Quran/Prophet/Allah and not lying, I have to conclude that you haven't understood much and I shouldn't be wasting my time arguing with you. But I have some time to waste.

Anajmi,
Its more of a matter of common sense than anything else in this case. Ali who was the most loyal and trusted companion of the prophet (pbuh) will accept every decision of prophet(pbuh) with full faith and trust. And anyways that's besides the point because here I am talking about the prophet (pbuh) setting an example and not about Ali's feelings for the prophet during this incident.

BTW: There is something very interesting that I have realized after reading GM's post. If Ali felt that he cannot be harmed in any way by the enemies because he is protecting the prophet, then in the same way the prophet should have felt that no harm can be done to him since he is protecting the message of Allah. I really find this hard to believe that Allah can protect Ali because he is trying to help the prophet but Allah cannot protect the prophet who is trying to spread his message...

[anajmi]

I really find this hard to believe

Correct. You will find it hard to believe because you do not understand prophet's hikmah behind his actions. Whatever prophet did was the command of Allah and there was a lesson in it. Allah was teaching us what we can and cannot do under different circumstances through the actions of the prophet. Allah could've vanquished the prophet's enemies without him having to raise a hand, but the prophet had to fight in battle and he even lost two teeth in one. Try to understand the hikmah. When the prophet left Mecca, it was to teach the muslims about Hijra. Hazrat Ali was left in his place to create a diversion and waste time while the prophet could escape to Madina. There is a lesson in it for us. Allah could've transported the prophet to madina in the blink of an eye like he did during Meraj, but then we wouldn'tve learned these important lessons. Which some of us still haven't!!

[anajmi]

israfild,

The point that i wanted to drive through my post was that,
1.) According to the Shia (ithna ashari, or bohras or khoja shias etc) there has to be a Sahib-uz-zamaan which is none but the Imam-Uz-zamaan (AS).
2.) No body apart from the ones i mentioned earlier can answer all questions. NOBODY AT ALL

1.) That has no basis in the Quran or the Sunnah of the prophet. It is according to these sects only.
2.) Have you asked any unanswerable questions to these people and received answers?

[Aarif]

Correct. You will find it hard to believe because you do not understand prophet's hikmah behind his actions.

but then we wouldn'tve learned these important lessons. Which some of us still haven't!!

You have still not realized that all my posts in this thread are tongue-in-cheek. I do understand the hikmah of prophet. But I do not understand your selective understanding of hikmah in some cases and ignoring them completely in other cases.

Its like saying "if I think this is right than it is Allah's wish" and if I think that this is wrong than "it is a lie"... As I have said earlier we only agree to what suits us and disagree to what does not suit us...

[anajmi]

I do understand the hikmah of prophet.

Now that I have explained it, of course you do.

You have still not realized that all my posts in this thread are tongue-in-cheek.

Some say that to avoid embarassment that they have just managed to bring upon themselves.

But I do not understand your selective understanding of hikmah in some cases and ignoring them completely in other cases.

Are you referring to the hikmah in the hiding of the Imam? That is what started this discussion. Kindly explain the hikmah, as I do not have a clue and I am not speaking tongue-in-cheek!!

Its like saying "if I think this is right than it is Allah's wish" and if I think that this is wrong than "it is a lie"... As I have said earlier we only agree to what suits us and disagree to what does not suit us...

Again, I have no clue what the heck you are saying. Not tongue-in-cheek. Just don't have a clue!!

[Aarif]

Now that I have explained it, of course you do.

Oh I see... So if Anajmi would not explain people will not understand anything about Islam. And also Anajmi is the only one who decides on which parts of Islamic history are genuine and which parts are not. So tomorrow if Anajmi tells me that there is no hikmah in such and such a thing then I must agree that it is the ONLY truth.

BTW: Allah called me yesterday on my cell phone and told me that he had asked the Imam to go in hiding. And he also told me that there is lot of hikmah behind this decision. Now unless you do not believe in Allah you have to agree that the Imam was not a coward

[anajmi]

Oh I see... So if Anajmi would not explain people will not understand anything about Islam. And also Anajmi is the only one who decides on which parts of Islamic history are genuine and which parts are not. So tomorrow if Anajmi tells me that there is no hikmah in such and such a thing then I must agree that it is the ONLY truth.

For someone who says so much with his tongue in his cheek, it amazes me how you failed to see the winky " " that I have in there.

BTW: Allah called me yesterday on my cell phone and told me that he had asked the Imam to go in hiding. And he also told me that there is lot of hikmah behind this decision. Now unless you do not believe in Allah you have to agree that the Imam was not a coward

A fool is one who says anything that he can think of when he cannot think of anything to say.

[Aarif]

A fool is one who says anything that he can think of when he cannot think of anything to say.

That applies to you as well. Because most of the times that's pretty much what you do.

[anajmi]

I don't think a fool can recognize the quality that makes him a fool, otherwise he wouldn't be a fool.

[Aarif]

I don't think a fool can recognize the quality that makes him a fool, otherwise he wouldn't be a fool.

Yes, you are right and again it applies to you as well...

[anajmi]

Well, as long as you accept that you are a fool, it is fine.

[Aarif]

Well, as long as you accept that you are a fool, it is fine.

You still did not get my point. All these arguments are to prove that you are a fool and not me.

[anajmi]

Still waiting for the hikmah of the Imam going into hiding.

[Aarif]

Still waiting for the hikmah of the Imam going into hiding.

Well it would be really rude to question Allah on this one. Don't you agree with me?

[anajmi]

So we agree that you are a fool. Good. It is ok to accept it and move forward instead arguing against something that is clear. It is clear that you have no clue about the hikmah of the hiding of the Imam vis a vis the acts of the prophet. You just put your foot in your mouth. And instead of figuring out a way to pull it out, you have decided to put the other one in as well.

[Aarif]

So we agree that you are a fool. Good. It is ok to accept it and move forward instead arguing against something that is clear. It is clear that you have no clue about the hikmah of the hiding of the Imam vis a vis the acts of the prophet. You just put your foot in your mouth. And instead of figuring out a way to pull it out, you have decided to put the other one in as well.

Just because I don't know why the Imam went in hiding means there is no hikmah in his actions and I am a fool. Excellent logic.

The whole point of this argument was that there could be a valid reason why he went into hiding. Unless you have complete verifyable proof and knowledge that he went into hiding only because he was a coward, do you have the right to make the comments that you have made on him in this thread? I would not give any credit to the Imams just based on their lieneage. But I would not insult them either just based on my gut feeling. And I am sure even if I come up with some solid historic proof proving that there was hikmah in his actions, you will find ways to ridicule it just because it does not suit your way of thinking. I will mention this one more time. The problem is not that I don't know the hikmah of the Imam behind hiding. The problem is you are already throuroughly convinced that there is no hikmah behind his hiding. And since that is the case there is no proof in this world which will change your opinion.

Now we can either leave it at that or since you have time to waste we can continue wasting each other's time and disk space...

[anajmi]

More idiotic logic. People have said earlier on this board that he went into hiding to save his skin. Go read the posts. It was you who decided that the Imam's hiding was the same as the prophet migration without any knowledge on either issue. If there is hikmah behind his hiding then go and find it. I am saying there isn't and will continue to do so till you find otherwise.

[Aarif]

More idiotic logic. People have said earlier on this board that he went into hiding to save his skin. Go read the posts.

Excellent... You have exactly proved my point by saying that.

Because people on this forum with their fake IDs said that the Imam went into hiding to save his skin you believe them. So going by that when I am telling you that he went into hiding for a valid reason you should believe me as well right? But unfortunately you will not do so because it does not suit your way of thinking.

[Aarif]

I am saying there isn't and will continue to do so till you find otherwise.

And I believe there is and will continue to do so till you PROVE otherwise.

[anajmi]

Because people on this forum with their fake IDs said that the Imam went into hiding to save his skin you believe them. So going by that when I am telling you that he went into hiding for a valid reason you should believe me as well right? But unfortunately you will not do so because it does not suit your way of thinking.

You can try by giving me the valid reason. Whether I believe in it or not shouldn't be your concern. May be others will believe. So go and find the valid reason and post it over here.

And I believe there is and will continue to do so till you PROVE otherwise.

I have already proven that there is no hikmah behind his hiding. You can prove me wrong.

[Aarif]

I have already proven that there is no hikmah behind his hiding. You can prove me wrong.

Well if you call your false allegation your proof than you probably do not know the definition of proof.

[Aarif]

May be others will believe.

I thought the reformists believe in the post of the Dai. And the post of the Dai was only created after the Imam went into hiding. So I guess they do believe in the hidden Imam as well. They only have a problem with last two Dais. So I don't think I need to prove anything to others...

[anajmi]

Well if you call your false allegation your proof than you probably do not know the definition of proof.

My allegation would be false if you could show that the hikmah of the Imam's going into hiding is something other than to save his himself.

I thought the reformists believe in the post of the Dai. And the post of the Dai was only created after the Imam went into hiding. So I guess they do believe in the hidden Imam as well. They only have a problem with last two Dais. So I don't think I need to prove anything to others...

The others believe that he went into hiding to save himself. Just like I do. If that is the hikmah, hide to save yourself, then I guess this discussion has reached the conclusion that I drew 3 dozen posts earlier!!

[Aarif]

The others believe that he went into hiding to save himself. Just like I do. If that is the hikmah, hide to save yourself, then I guess this discussion has reached the conclusion that I drew 3 dozen posts earlier!!

The faith of Dawoodi Bohras (both reformists and abdes) is based on the fact that Imamat is one more pillar. The reformist accept the Imams as the true Imams and also accept the Dais appointed by the last Imam. If the reformists believe that the Imam was a coward and ran away to save his skin than it would defeat the very purpose for which they are fighting i.e. their identity as DBs because without accepting these basic facts they cannot call themselves DBs. Now are you telling me that the reformists are fighting for an identity given by a coward who ran away to save his skin? It would also mean that the reformist have a problem accepting a corrupt Dai, but they do not have problem accepting a coward Imam who ran away to save his skin?

BTW: An Imam was a religious guide spreading the Shia faith. It is well known in history how Shias have been prosecuted by mainstream muslims. If a guide's life is in danger don't you think that he should try and protect his life just like the prophet did? And if I am hunting for the Imam than I will continue to hunt for the Imam and kill him. I will not kill the Dai appointed by the Imam just because I cannot find the Imam.

[anajmi]

If a guide's life is in danger don't you think that he should try and protect his life just like the prophet did?

Here we go again. After all this you go back to the same idiotic argument that began all this. No wonder your Imam had to go into hiding. I have to go into hiding too now!!! Unlike your Imam though, I won't be going into hiding for hundreds of years. That would be a bit too much. That would show that I am really really scared. Shit scared!!