Partition of India.

[Haggi]

Dear All,
Just finished reading Jashwant Singh's fascinating book on Jinnah. It is an almost honest look into not only Jinnah's role in the partition of India but also the roles of Gandhi, Nehru,
Vallabhbhai Patel and others. But at the end of the book he concludes that there is no single person,reasons or circumstances which resulted into the partition but it was a rather a turns of events
and contributions from all involved that resulted into this fallout. However, he has been very critical of Nehru's and Congress party roles in alienating Jinnah into taking a stance for Pakistan as it actually
was just a bargaining ploy to get some power, recognition and safe guardianship of the Muslim minority under a majoratical rule by a Hindu dominated Congress Party. Unfortunately Jinnah, he reaped what he sowed.

Many Muslim persona's have been mentioned in this book from all walk of lives who participated in this historically event which tragically changed the lives of millions of Indians. Names like the Aga Khan,
Maulana Azad , Abdul Gaffar Khan, Liaqatt Ali Khan and many others are mentioned who partook in this makings of history of the Indian sub continent.

What I have observered is that there is not even one Dawoodi Bohra person mentioned in the entire book. The nearest we come is the mention of Badrrudin Tyabji who happened to be a Sulleimani Bohra and the first
chief Justice of Bombay and the first Indian at to hold that post. It makes you wonder how a small population of Sulleimanis have produced so many eminent personalities in Judiciary, religion and Arts in particular.

The main reason, I wanted to start this new topic is to ask all knowledgeable:
1. What was the standing policy of Syedna Taher Saiffuddin and his son regarding the partition ?
2. Did they advise the community of what to do ?
3.Did they advocate migration to Pakistan or stay put ?
4.How many Bohras migrated to Pakistan and vice versa ?

Your inputs will be appreciated.

[Al Zulfiqar]

The main reason, I wanted to start this new topic is to ask all knowledgeable:
1. What was the standing policy of Syedna Taher Saiffuddin and his son regarding the partition ?
2. Did they advise the community of what to do ?
3.Did they advocate migration to Pakistan or stay put ?
4.How many Bohras migrated to Pakistan and vice versa ?

Your inputs will be appreciated.

i was born after the partition but heard a lot about it from my father and others who were closely involved in supporting gandhi's fight and spreading his messages of a 'healthy body in a healthy mind', non-violence and defeating the adversary by adopting his own tools: an english education, study of british law and democracy.

from what i know, very few bohras actually migrated across the newly made borders, esp. during the actual partition time. those who were already in pakistan and vice versa those who were in india, mainly stayed put, perhaps out of typical bohra prudence and not willing to undertake such hardships, especially when faced with closing their businesses and selling their properties. it is important to note that being the merchant class, we could not so easily uproot ourselves and take a gamble on an uncertain future and unstable business prospects in an unfamiliar land esp. in a time of turmoil. besides, for bohras, religion was not much of an influencing factor, as they do not identify themselves very strongly with other muslims and are comfortable with gujratis and other hindus,

shrewd people that they are, many bohras waited for both sides to settle down and some few years later, and even upto a decade later, some bohras did migrate to pakistan, but again because of uniting with family on the other side and the excellent business prospects which resulted from the majority of hindu sindhis having left pakistan. our decisions were more dictated by economics rather than politics or religion.

As for syedna taher saifuddin, his decision to remain in india was also perhaps led by the same factors, in addition to which was the ancestral properties of ziyarats and trusts mainly being in india and a willing and amenable Indian govt, then led by Gandhi and vallabh bhai patel, both gujratis. I do not think that syedna or Jinnah ever had any love lost between them, esp. when syedna taher saifuddin was such a staunch supporter of the british, partly due to the grace and favors he wanted and enjoyed and the security their rule afforded him.

Whether he actively discouraged migration to Pakistan, I am not aware, but the very fact that he and his family stayed put in india was enough for most bohras to not consider such a drastic step of migrating to the new state of Pakistan. As for the numbers, again I do not know if there are any official records, perhaps those who have more details like bhai insaf may be able to throw more light.

It is also well-known that syedna at the time did not take any stand on the partition or throw his weight behind the creation of a muslim state or support the muslims at large. That is not surprising, as we seem to view the issues concerning muslims at large as not being our problems anyway. This sense of detachment which includes differing religious views, culture and ideology runs very deep, although we make a convenient hypocritical show of superficial solidarity. As a muslim minority and persecuted for our faith, we have an innate suspicion and dislike for the sunnis in all their forms, whether arabs, Persians or Asians.

this is my take on what I know. perhaps those in possession of archival material from those days can provide more inside information on the ‘palace intrigues’..

[guy_sam2005]

the partition was also more of economics n power nly rather than religion n so.
jaswant singhhimself is a politicion and his book is not free from his point of view of politics rather than jinnah.ghandi,nehru n so,
as u say syd.taher saifuddin moula stayed bach cuz all the rozas n all were here,then it was a great decision.
it shows the care he had for our heritage and doat lineage.if he hadnt taken the decision we wouldnt have burhanpur,galiakot n so on like we do now.......................................
callin bohras shrewd just cuz they don fall in ur point of view is unprovoked attack cuz of ur hatred,,i dunno wat u hate so much...

[alik]

wow!!wht revelations!!!
fyii..maula satyed back...to run 100billion empire...if he wud have been in pakistan....the govt wud have decalred him a kaffir like they did to the amhediis....

[Hussain_KSA]

Brother Alik is right Maula stayed back to protect 100 billion empire but at the time of war he helped Pakistan financially and when the intelligence was about to arrest him than president Dr. Zakir Hussain informed Syedna Taher Saifuddin. To avoid humiliation he went to Matheran and his death was announced. It is believed that he killed himself with poison (as he was expert in poisioning his wife and mansoos (of 50th dai Syedna Abdullah Badruddin) Syedi Tayyab. Syedi Tayyab was also poisioned and due to assasination of his son 50th Dai got mental problem and after one and half year he died too.

[accountability]

This is pretty bizzare, I dont know the source of your information. But Syedna Taher saifuddin died suddenly. So far as I know he did not have any fatal or chronic disease. But it is hard to believe that he helped financially because in 1965 syedna himself was not a very rich man. The war only lasted two weeks, both sides compromised. It is a hearsay that Laal Bahadur shastri also died because of war. Anyways it is intresting.

[Hussain_KSA]

Yes he died suddenly. No one did his (aakhri deedaar) as his face was black to to poison. I wrote the same story on this forum some time back. S. Insaf saheb can give some details.

[guy_sam2005]

wow!!wht revelations!!!
fyii..maula satyed back...to run 100billion empire...if he wud have been in pakistan....the govt wud have decalred him a kaffir like they did to the amhediis....

government decision are politically influenced so it has null validity.it was not that big empire then............

[guy_sam2005]

Brother Alik is right Maula stayed back to protect 100 billion empire but at the time of war he helped Pakistan financially and when the intelligence was about to arrest him than president Dr. Zakir Hussain informed Syedna Taher Saifuddin. To avoid humiliation he went to Matheran and his death was announced. It is believed that he killed himself with poison (as he was expert in poisioning his wife and mansoos (of 50th dai Syedna Abdullah Badruddin) Syedi Tayyab. Syedi Tayyab was also poisioned and due to assasination of his son 50th Dai got mental problem and after one and half year he died too.

wow when nothing worked now u accuse them of being murderers...u guys are pathetic..no point even discussing with..if some sane people here let me know...

[S. Insaf]

Late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb and the present Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb’s policy has proved that they are absolute “Power-worshipers”.

Late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin had to face stiff opposition from his followers as he forcibly started consolidate his financial power by compelling the wealthy Bohras Trustees to transfer their religious waqf endowments in his name. To silence the voice of his challengers he had to involve himself in the worldly politics.

During British Raj he remained loyal to British government and kept his distance from the Indian National Congress.

In the critical period of change of power he wooed the Muslim league. He sent his firmans to his followers to vote for Muslim league. He arranged parties for Mohammad Ali Jinnah. He invited Jinnah to Saifee Mahal where carpets with “Pakistan Zindabad” slogan were spread in the central hall. But when Pakistan came into existence he remained in India and also asked his followers to stay in India as Pakistan was a Muslim country and he was sure to be challenged by Muslim majority there for his un-Islamic practices.

Where as in India he could fool the Hindu majority by interpreting the religion in his own way and safeguard his interests. As Theodore Wright rightly said, “He could conveniently manipulate the external democracy in order to curb the internal democracy”.

After independence of India he soon started building contacts with the ruling Congress leaders and showed his loyalty to Congress.

Again during NDA lead by anti-Muslim BJP rule and also when Shiv Sena’s rule in Maharashtra Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb immediately switched over his loyalty to BJP, Narendra Modi and Bal Thakrey.

Who-so-ever is in power, these Dais choose to worship him without any consideration of his credentials.
Even if Satan comes to power they would worship him too.

No Bohra Dai before Late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb and the present Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb had ever indulged in worldly politics. Their role was limited to give religious guidance and safety to their followers.

We do find 26th and 28th Dais going to the central power in India. For example after a split during 26th Dai Sayedna Daud Burhanuddin bin Ajabshah the Dawoodi Bohras were severely persecuted by the governors of Gujarat due to the rivalry with Jafaria sect. 26th Dai then went and met Mughal Emperor Akber and got relief for the community and gave up the practice of “Taqiyya” (secrecy or precautionary dissimulation) and community was permitted to perform their religious rites publicly. In this first incident the 26th Dai did not ask for any personal favour but the safety of his community.
During 29th Dai, Sayedna Abdul Tayyeb Zakiuddin the community was faced with one more split in 1628. The Sayedna personally met the Mughal Emperor Jahangir and argued the case. Jahangir decided the case in favour of Daudi Bohras. In all these cases the concerned Dai never asked for any personal favour and never got involved into worldly politics.

But the 51st Dai, Sayedna Taher Saifuddin consolidated his financial power and position after moving to the commercial capital of India, Bombay, by acquiring few properties of the community by fraud and advancing claims to omnipotence. These claims had nothing to do with the tenets of Dawoodi Bohra faith and were against Islam. He was thus challenged in various courts of law where he had to face humiliating defeats.
Second challenge to the authority of 51st Dai came when at the turn of 20th century modernist movement started in the community and under the influence of British rule some elites of the community established first ever school of western education in Burhanpur which was ruthlessly opposed by Sayedna Taher Saifuddin.
Despite their miserable defeats in many court cases the Sayedna’s family members and his establishment behave with impunity and do not tolerate any criticism of their conducts as if all of them are infallibles.

[Hussain_KSA]

Brother Alik is right Maula stayed back to protect 100 billion empire but at the time of war he helped Pakistan financially and when the intelligence was about to arrest him than president Dr. Zakir Hussain informed Syedna Taher Saifuddin. To avoid humiliation he went to Matheran and his death was announced. It is believed that he killed himself with poison (as he was expert in poisioning his wife and mansoos (of 50th dai Syedna Abdullah Badruddin) Syedi Tayyab. Syedi Tayyab was also poisioned and due to assasination of his son 50th Dai got mental problem and after one and half year he died too.

wow when nothing worked now u accuse them of being murderers...u guys are pathetic..no point even discussing with..if some sane people here let me know...

Guy_sam

I hope you are not lazy about reading. Kindly go through the various thread on this board and you will realize that much has been return to proved that they are murderers.

[Sajid Zafar]

Saifuddin Bhai:

A very detailed account of partition exists and all these events during last 60 years. I have not seen a single reference in any book about the involvement of late Syedna with partition/indepenence movement or inviting Quid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah. Can you please provide the reference.

Thanks.

[guy_sam2005]

hussain_ksa
am not lazy about reading but am sure for searchin.can u provide me with links.......and ya the above story is fairytale for me from your bosses here...............

[guy_sam2005]

Saifuddin Bhai:

A very detailed account of partition exists and all these events during last 60 years. I have not seen a single reference in any book about the involvement of late Syedna with partition/indepenence movement or inviting Quid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah. Can you please provide the reference.

Thanks.

you will see many when this guys write a book...you will also see the dai bein responsible for world war 1 and 2.
you will also see dai being a influence on america to fire an atom bomb on japan...
and didnt you know dai only had placed a glacier to sink titanic.
and if these guys have their way they will name bemuda triangle to burhani triangle...........
and ofcource dai only did kandahar hijacking and WTC destruction so that usa would attack iraq and he can go to karbala...
right Mr.insaaf

[anajmi]

and if these guys have their way they will name bemuda triangle to burhani triangle...........

guy,

I didn't think you had a funny bone in you but that was funny. Let me tell you something about your Dai. Whether you believe it or not, your Dai is a fraud. He is no more a religious entity than Rajneesh was with his 90 Rolls Royce's. Reformists don't believe that the Dai sank the Titanic. What they do believe is that he is incapable of saving anyone if something similar were to happen today, except his own worthless self with all the money that he has stolen from ordinary bohras.

[mumin]

yes, the facts speak for themselves. about five years back the dai's son started collecting big money from bohras in houston. The purpose of collection was that a big party would be given in honour of Bill Clinton . The mayor of houston and other political figures were invited. the purpose of this party was to ask Clinton if he would come to the airport to recieve syedna on his arrival at houston. Clinton refused. ofcourse the committee members had a lavish meal. by the way ordinary bohras were not invited to this table and chair party.
So, you are right in saying that the bohra clergy has moved its interest from saving souls to dirty politics.

[S. Insaf]

Brother mumin,
This reminds me of one couplet from my Gazzal- Na Aadami na koyee ghar dikhai deta hai - Ajeeb shehr ka manzar dikhai deta:
Iyaz Shah ke iftar mein shareek na tha,
Namaz mein tau barabar dikhai deta hai.

[Al Zulfiqar]

of course, inviting bill clinton to receive syedna is the perfect choice.

friends, bohras and mumineen, lend me your ears.

bill clinton is an honorable man. he had sexual peccadilloes with several women and showed his moral integrity. syedna is also an honorable man of great integrity and spiritual wisdom. as a religious leader he indulges in embezzlement of community money on a mind-boggling scale, encourages slavery, lives the life of a maharaja for himself and his vast family, harasses and abuses those who oppose him, indulges in corruption by bribing govt officials and playing dirty politics, rewards tyrants, murderers and goondas like narendra modi, bal thackeray, dawood ibrahim, karim lala and yusuf patel etc. by feeding them biryani and malida and offering them shawls and money, and goes on lavish shikar trips to murder wild animals for his own pleasure. both are equally moral and ethical men.

clinton is an honorable man, so is syedna.

[ghulam muhammed]

if these guys have their way they will name bemuda triangle to burhani triangle...........

A Bermuda triangle/Burhani triangle very much exists in Mumbai which is spread from Saifee mahal, Raudat Tahera and Badri Mahal where instead of the ships and airplanes, the money vanishes and just like the ships, the money is not traceable.

[Hussain_KSA]

if these guys have their way they will name bemuda triangle to burhani triangle...........

A Bermuda triangle/Burhani triangle very much exists in Mumbai which is spread from Saifee mahal, Raudat Tahera and Badri Mahal where instead of the ships and airplanes, the money vanishes and just like the ships, the money is not traceable.

Good comparison brother GM.

[guy_sam2005]

if these guys have their way they will name bemuda triangle to burhani triangle...........

A Bermuda triangle/Burhani triangle very much exists in Mumbai which is spread from Saifee mahal, Raudat Tahera and Badri Mahal where instead of the ships and airplanes, the money vanishes and just like the ships, the money is not traceable.

will u please tell me how much money you had to pay by force ......

[guy_sam2005]

moula(tus)has saved us not once but many times..............................its only moula(tus)'s ehsaan that i am here arguing with you guys............

[guy_sam2005]

and the money is very much tracable,,provided you look with a open mind........dude we bohras are businessmen by generations..its in our blood.......we cant be fooled so easily.we work with the best institutions of the world day in day out.....if you think we are fooled to give with folded hands you are wrong...we do it with a very open mind and no force........cant say no force everywhere..but yea mostly without any compulsion....

[Al Zulfiqar]

moula(tus)has saved us not once but many times..............................its only moula(tus)'s ehsaan that i am here arguing with you guys............

guysam,

can you please provide concrete examples instead of making vague statements of ehsanaat, nirali shaan and other crap? and dont run away like an abde coward when you get hammered and acting childish.

and yes, all you can do is argue till you are blue in the face as a paid lackey of the establishment, but you convince no one. all we can do is laugh at yr pathetic attempts to prove that well known crooks are actually saints in disguise.

[guy_sam2005]

and if these guys have their way they will name bemuda triangle to burhani triangle...........

guy,

I didn't think you had a funny bone in you but that was funny. Let me tell you something about your Dai. Whether you believe it or not, your Dai is a fraud. He is no more a religious entity than Rajneesh was with his 90 Rolls Royce's. Reformists don't believe that the Dai sank the Titanic. What they do believe is that he is incapable of saving anyone if something similar were to happen today, except his own worthless self with all the money that he has stolen from ordinary bohras.

can you tell me how many rolls royce has moula(tus)brought?all the cars are gifted rools royce ,jaguar and a bentely i think....he is saving us even today from people like you ...............
one of my friends had been to your meeting or somethin in canada...he obviously didnt have any idea was e was walkin into..but from wat was said and discussed there he is still cursing himself for bein there even for a second...........

[guy_sam2005]

moula(tus)has saved us not once but many times..............................its only moula(tus)'s ehsaan that i am here arguing with you guys............

guysam,

can you please provide concrete examples instead of making vague statements of ehsanaat, nirali shaan and other crap? and dont run away like an abde coward when you get hammered and acting childish.

and yes, all you can do is argue till you are blue in the face as a paid lackey of the establishment, but you convince no one. all we can do is laugh at yr pathetic attempts to prove that well known crooks are actually saints in disguise.

dude i already said am not replying to your posts............i am not here to fight or war of words with anyone....you hate syedna thats your personal choice till its not in physical actions...................

[mumin]

the christian pope moves around in full security, yet during last christmas a women managed to get out of the crowd and attacked the pope in his own home town of rome. she was over come by the heavy security guards. In another incident the pope was shot at during his visit to Poland and since then he travels with heavy security in an armoured car,if he at all travels.
The mumineen can be pushed just so much with the corrupt gundas of the jamat committee in small town u.s.a. and ,u.k. and elsewhere. I would not be surprized if some of the money hungry , corrupt and cunning bhaisahebs were physically attacked. by a courageous mumin to save allah's deen., his culture and his family.

[ghulam muhammed]

and the money is very much tracable,,provided you look with a open mind

Fine. So according to you no one on this forum exept you have an open mind. Then please see with your open mind (if need be then you can even use a microscope) and tell us as to where have you traced the billions extorted by Burhanudin saab and his goons.

dude we bohras are businessmen by generations..its in our blood.......we cant be fooled so easily.we work with the best institutions of the world day in day out.....if you think we are fooled to give with folded hands you are wrong...we do it with a very open mind and no force........cant say no force everywhere..but yea mostly without any compulsion....

Firstly do some research and you will find that bohras are petty shopkeepers and traders with hardly 0.001% having a global presence like khorakiwalas etc. Much more then the bohras, it is the gujaratis, marwaris and jews who have more business in their blood but the Ambanis sleep on the feet of swaminarayan head priest, vijay mallya bows down to sri sri ravishankar and they all worship an elephant god. So according to your logic they too are not fools but more intellegent then even bohras because they are more wealthy and famous then any of the bohras.

[ghulam muhammed]

one of my friends had been to your meeting or somethin in canada...he obviously didnt have any idea was e was walkin into..but from wat was said and discussed there he is still cursing himself for bein there even for a second...........

I fully agree with you on this because as you say he is YOUR friend so its for anyone to guess his I.Q. level. There is an old saying "Tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are" also "A man is known by the company he keeps"

[ghulam muhammed]

its only moula(tus)'s ehsaan that i am here arguing with you guys............

Come out of your fantasy world dude, its definately only moula's ehsan that you are making a laughing stock of yourself here with your childish and stupid replies and remember that you still have no clue as to what a real and constructive argument is all about.