this is it...

[haqqun nafs]

recently i came across to some strange claims on this board about how syedna taher saifuddin(rizwanullah alahi) poisened his wife and many other family members and finally ended himself too with poison(naudobillah)....now my point is if you guys belive he and his son syedna muhammed burhanuddin(tus)is such a criminal (which they are not in reality) forget about them being Dai-e Imam uz zamaan but they dont even fit to be muslim after all this accuses you claim against them....so now my point is why not not just leave this bloody criminal jamaat and join ithna ashari,alavi jamaat or agha khaan or even sunni or wahabi jamaat....why do you even bother to bring any reform to this community who are run my such criminals(naudobillah).

only sensible and people with little conciousness need to reply my question.

[SBM]

HN
I do not know what the truth is: But the fact remains Syedna never talks about his mother
To your logic why not leave Jamaat, I wonder if Imam Hussain would have done the same with Yazid and walked away, how would you do PURJOSH MAATAM and do the yearly showmanship in the name of Imam Hussain.
I do not mean to compare Syedna to Yazid but you asked for it. Leaving is not the answer, If that would have been the case,
Nelson Mandela would have left South Africa or Gandhi would have been in UK and both countries would never been liberated.
The question you should be asking why not clarify those doubts with proof about Syedna's mother once and for all.

[admirer]

bro haqqun,

these questions have been asked to them umpteen number of times and they have no answer.
The reformists say that they want to reform the religion but the fact is that most of them just spew venom against Syedna (TUS) and his family all the time.

And it is a fact that these so called 'reformists' don't want to leave the main stream Dawoodi Bohra because they would have no identity outside the sect .They also don't want to leave our bohra community and start their own because on doing that they lose all the right on any property they have as dawoodi bohras. This is especially true for Udaipur's case.

[aziz]

Plus what worries them most is that they will not be burried in bohra cemetery,as if that will erase everything,
and for your info omadonkey imam hussein sa walked off yazid ,so if you have the guts as per your claim i dare you to also walk off with all your reformists and we will say good riddance to dirty rubbish

[admirer]

HN
I do not know what the truth is: But the fact remains Syedna never talks about his mother
To your logic why not leave Jamaat, I wonder if Imam Hussain would have done the same with Yazid and walked away, how would you do PURJOSH MAATAM and do the yearly showmanship in the name of Imam Hussain.
I do not mean to compare Syedna to Yazid but you asked for it. Leaving is not the answer, If that would have been the case,
Nelson Mandela would have left South Africa or Gandhi would have been in UK and both countries would never been liberated.
The question you should be asking why not clarify those doubts with proof about Syedna's mother once and for all.

Oma,
your posts and analogies are the stupidest ones I have ever read on this forum!
You are comparing yourself with Gandhi and Mandela??
And as your usual trait you have again made mockery of MAATAM. Don't reformists perform MAATAM?

The fact remains that YOU are a 'bin painde ka lota'. You show that you are with reformists but I have read your posts telling that you very much respect the Dawoodi Bohra sect and are not a Syedna hater. But then you come up with most stupid claims against Aqa Moula (TUS).

You first keep whining about accountability of funds and not you are questioning about Moula's mother? Shame on you.

According to me, you are one frustrated person who has problem with anything and everything. So just SHUT UP!

[SBM]

You first keep whining about accountability of funds and not you are questioning about Moula's mother

I suppose truth hurts accountability of the funds and the truth about Syedna's mother are analogues

BTW I REALLY NEED TO CONGRATULATE ADMINISTRATION THAT THIS WEB SITE IS FINALLY GETTING ATTENTION FROM ORHTOS

[SBM]

Admirer

You are comparing yourself with Gandhi and Mandela??
And as your usual trait you have again made mockery of MAATAM. Don't reformists perform MAATAM?

Aziz=Gulf and admirer
Here is the problem, you did not read it correctly, NO I did not compare myself with Mandela and Gandhi, it was one of you who asked the whole community of Reformists to get out, and that is what I said, it is ordinary people who fight and then become leaders
And No I did not make mockery of Mataam I wrote PURJOSH which you conveniently eliminated from the post. Mataam is sober ritual, it is the KOTHARIS and people like you who are making MOCKERY of Mataam by having Mattam on every occasion including birthday, wedding and on Eid. No other Shia Community I know of does that kind of showmanship and use Moharram as a festive occasion to meet and greet politicians like Kotharis do.
Shame on you guys of mocking Imam Husain's Shadat and using his and his family's sacrifice to turn a sad event into a yearly tamasha.

[aziz]

The funds are not yours,we give our money and we are not asking so why should you ,omadonkey is one of the biggest hypocrate on this site eating and loving bohra food but hating bohras ,
this site should be renamed dawoodi bohras hate club cause thats what you all are

[Smart]

@HN
Let us apply the same logic that you want to apply.

To every accusation about the Syedna and his predecessor, you say naudobillah. Which means you are not willing to listen to anything against him. Is it your contention that he is perfect, flawless and can do no wrong? Or do you think that because he is human, he is prone to errors?

Please make your stand clear on this issue.

[S. Insaf]

Dear haqqun nafs,
Welcome to the board. I have been involved in the reform movement openly since last 45 years. Initially the Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb called me at Saifee Mahal and tried to impress me. Then he left for Pakistan. When he was in Pakistan war between Pakistan and India started so he returned and went Matheran and died there.
Late Husaini bhai Sanchawala published a book "Anti-social and Anti-National activities of house of Sayedna". In this book he showed with photos and photo copies of the documents Sayedna Taher Saifuddin's support for two nations theory. Even his pressure on Congress leaders like Abul Kalam Azad not to sign on "Quit India movement’s documents". Mr. Sanchawala went to Delhi and distributed this book among the members of parliament.
It is believed that because shocking exposure made by this book Sayedna Taher Saifuddin soon after coming from Pakistan, was kept in home arrest. Thereafter it is a mystery whether he died a natural death or not, but it is true that in Matheran and after his body was brought to Bombay from Matheran no one was allowed to see his face.
Thereafter during Sayedna Burhanuddin rule I was taken to Badri Mahal and thoroughly beaten up in the presence of Sayedna Saheb. Then I was number of times advised through my relatives to give up this sect and system and join some other sect. This is their usual trick. So that they can get rid of critics and carry on their exploitation uninterrupted.
We reformist are born and brought up as Dawoodi Bohras, we have our religious, social and psychological roots in this community. We have our rights on the culture, traditions and properties of this community. If some one critical of the President or Prime Minister of India he can not be treated as anti-national and asked to leave India and go to some other country.

Death of Husaina I-saheba, Sayedna Taher Saifuddin first wife and Burhanuddin Saheb's mother and also the death of Taher Saifuddin Saheb's elder brother Tayyed bhai Saheb have remained mysterious. Many fingers have been raised in the past about them.

[SBM]

Gulf=Aziz

eating and loving bohra food

Can you find some thing new to write, I have already stated on this forum that I am not going to Markaz and my discussion with Guy, I explain the reason so rest easy I am not eating your food yes I love bohra food and my wife alhamdullilah is a very good cook and makes fantastic Daal Chaval and Palido besides other Bohra dishes so I do not have to go to Markaz to act like I have never seen food in my life like some of you do.

[aziz]

When you call matam a ritual that itself is mockery of matam,we do not think that its a ritual but part of our life ,and ashara maybe a festive occasion for progs but not for us
you would know all this if you came out of your hypocratical hating shell which is covering you totally

[SBM]

Gulf

ashara maybe a festive occasion for progs but not for us

Gulf aka Aziz
I do not know any Reformist group or any other Bohra like Alavi-Sulemani having Ziyafats the day after Ashura. Meetings with dignitaries and giving them shawls.......... Can you name one please........

[ghulam muhammed]

I do not know any Reformist group or any other Bohra like Alavi-Sulemani having Ziyafats the day after Ashura. Meetings with dignitaries and giving them shawls.......... Can you name one please........

And also organising auction before every mohurrum, inviting bids from jamaats all over the world and then selecting the venue of the jamaat whose bid is the highest and thereby charging crores of rupees as fees for delivering vayez. This indeed is a festival and an occassion to rejoice for the money hungry kothar.

[ghulam muhammed]

The funds are not yours,we give our money and we are not asking so why should you

If an NRI bohra visits India and if he is robbed and the police refuses to register his case saying that his wages are paid by the taxpayers of India and not by the NRI bohra due to which he can only work for an Indian taxpayer and not the NRI then in this case what will you say ?

[admirer]

The funds are not yours,we give our money and we are not asking so why should you

If an NRI bohra visits India and if he is robbed and the police refuses to register his case saying that his wages are paid by the taxpayers of India and not by the NRI bohra due to which he can only work for an Indian taxpayer and not the NRI then in this case what will you say ?

Mr. GM,

It seems reformists are very adept at drawing analogies!
Oma exemplifies it. drawing relation between national laws and religious matters is non sensical. And for that matter let me tell you that in certain countries medical facilities are only available to tax payers and not to foreign nationals.. So stop giving such stupid dealing. Here the matter is about the community.

Accountability of funds is justified but only by those who pay them.

And Oma for you I just have to say that you are foolish idiot.. You are a loser that's why you despise all people who go to markaz/masjid. You either be a Dawoodi Bohra or not. Don't hang in between. The best suggestion for you is to just buzz off and enjoy dal chawal palita made by your wife and not bother us with your menial ideologies!

[ghulam muhammed]

Accountability of funds is justified but only by those who pay them.

I know scores of bohras who regularly pay out of their nose but are still in the dark with regard to the immense money that flows into kothar's coffers and yes they have even dared to question the concerned people but were snubbed away ruthlessly with a stereo type reply "Aa daawat no maamlo chhe ane faqt mola jaane". Now please dont tell me that you are unaware of these malpractices. Atleast admit for once that there is rampant corruption right upto shahzada level and everyone is busy filling their own pockets otherwise how can you justify their lavish lifestyle. Take a peek inside their rooms in saifee mahal and you will see that their lifestyle is no less then that of the superstars of bollywood. I have personally seen their vulgar display of wealth and just to refresh your memory, refer to the thread 'Inside Saifee Mahal' on this forum.

[S. Insaf]

So for as Saifee Hospital being a charitable hospital and Supreme Court of India’s order to it to provide free of cost beds and treatment to poor and needy Dawoodi Bohras regardless of Misaq and Baraat is concerned, that order is quite clear.
Now question is whether the Supreme Court’s order is followed by the hospital or not?

I personally know one recent case which throws some light on the honesty of Saifee Hospital.

One Bohra lady, Nafeesa Zainul Lokhandwala arrived in Mumbai for attending Sayedna Saheb’s vaiz in Marol on 16th Dec. 2010. She came to Mumbai with her two kids by train and got down at Bandra Railway Terminus. From there she went to Bandra local train station to take a train to reach Marol. When train arrived she hurriedly climbed on the train but realized that her two kids could not make it due to normal rush. She quickly got down from the train. But she fell down on the platform as her legs got entangled in the Rida that she was wearing. She fell down and had serious head injury.
She was rushed to Saifee Hospital at Charni Road. She was treated in that hospital for three days and thereafter her husband, Nasir Lokhandwala was given a bill by doctors of Saifee Hospital, which he found beyond his reach. So he took his wife back to Godhara and admitted her in Neo-life Hospital where she died after struggling for few days.
The doctors in Saifee Hospital had also said there was no chance of her survival.

[porus]

Mr haqqun nafs,

Reformists want to raise awareness of dubious goings on in the community and you rage against them. You ought to educate yourself about the Reformists' views.

However, you should first ponder over the name you have chosen for this forum. Did you know that the words "haqqun nafs" are completely meaningless. It is actually "haq al-nafs" but pronounced "haq an-nafs". It means "The Right of the Soul".

Now, we are taxed at death for this 'right of soul'. I ask you. Why should your soul be taxed? Isn't your soul a gift from God for a limited term? In any case, it is the survivor, if any, who must pay. Please ask your Amil for a mind-boggling explanation. I can paraphrase his explanation thus: Never mind that, just cough up!

[haqqun nafs]

Mr haqqun nafs,

Reformists want to raise awareness of dubious goings on in the community and you rage against them. You ought to educate yourself about the Reformists' views.

However, you should first ponder over the name you have chosen for this forum. Did you know that the words "haqqun nafs" are completely meaningless. It is actually "haq al-nafs" but pronounced "haq an-nafs". It means "The Right of the Soul".

Now, we are taxed at death for this 'right of soul'. I ask you. Why should your soul be taxed? Isn't your soul a gift from God for a limited term? In any case, it is the survivor, if any, who must pay. Please ask your Amil for a mind-boggling explanation. I can paraphrase his explanation thus: Never mind that, just cough up!

MR not so perfect


I am not here to learn arabic grammer i know much about arabi and how words are differently pronounced from arabic to english,if i was you i would leave this criminal dawoodi community and joined some lotiyaa bohra jamaat atleast they would be muslim according to your own analysis.

[haqqun nafs]

So for as Saifee Hospital being a charitable hospital and Supreme Court of India’s order to it to provide free of cost beds and treatment to poor and needy Dawoodi Bohras regardless of Misaq and Baraat is concerned, that order is quite clear.
Now question is whether the Supreme Court’s order is followed by the hospital or not?

I personally know one recent case which throws some light on the honesty of Saifee Hospital.

One Bohra lady, Nafeesa Zainul Lokhandwala arrived in Mumbai for attending Sayedna Saheb’s vaiz in Marol on 16th Dec. 2010. She came to Mumbai with her two kids by train and got down at Bandra Railway Terminus. From there she went to Bandra local train station to take a train to reach Marol. When train arrived she hurriedly climbed on the train but realized that her two kids could not make it due to normal rush. She quickly got down from the train. But she fell down on the platform as her legs got entangled in the Rida that she was wearing. She fell down and had serious head injury.
She was rushed to Saifee Hospital at Charni Road. She was treated in that hospital for three days and thereafter her husband, Nasir Lokhandwala was given a bill by doctors of Saifee Hospital, which he found beyond his reach. So he took his wife back to Godhara and admitted her in Neo-life Hospital where she died after struggling for few days.
The doctors in Saifee Hospital had also said there was no chance of her survival.

why are you trying to divert subject line with such incident,even if some thing happened like this it has nothing to do with my question...and can u please provide soft copy of that book published(if it was ever).

[guy_sam2005]

The funds are not yours,we give our money and we are not asking so why should you ,omadonkey is one of the biggest hypocrate on this site eating and loving bohra food but hating bohras ,
this site should be renamed dawoodi bohras hate club cause thats what you all are

not just 1 but by some's updation of day to day affairs i feel many are..............

[guy_sam2005]

@HN
Let us apply the same logic that you want to apply.

To every accusation about the Syedna and his predecessor, you say naudobillah. Which means you are not willing to listen to anything against him. Is it your contention that he is perfect, flawless and can do no wrong? Or do you think that because he is human, he is prone to errors?

Please make your stand clear on this issue.

flawless or not i dont wanna argue..but yea not 1 flaw that you guys accuse moula(tus) is true........you guys hate him a lot.....god knows for what reason...ok you guys claim you are bohras but syedna should work like you guys want..well thats not gonna happen...we are and will do only wat syedna wants us too...we sing khaal ni jooti...if time asks for it you will see that in real too...
and as you guys claim he is a m*****r and havin contacts with underworld and politicions..i wonder howcome your bosses are still roaming around..........god and moula(tus)forgive me for even sayin..

[guy_sam2005]

The funds are not yours,we give our money and we are not asking so why should you

If an NRI bohra visits India and if he is robbed and the police refuses to register his case saying that his wages are paid by the taxpayers of India and not by the NRI bohra due to which he can only work for an Indian taxpayer and not the NRI then in this case what will you say ?

bohra is not a country we dont have nri's or police...talk some logic......a irrelevant post i would say..like most of your stories bout moula(tus).wide imagination

[guy_sam2005]

I do not know any Reformist group or any other Bohra like Alavi-Sulemani having Ziyafats the day after Ashura. Meetings with dignitaries and giving them shawls.......... Can you name one please........

And also organising auction before every mohurrum, inviting bids from jamaats all over the world and then selecting the venue of the jamaat whose bid is the highest and thereby charging crores of rupees as fees for delivering vayez. This indeed is a festival and an occassion to rejoice for the money hungry kothar.

have you attended any such meeting???????????????i am becoming a fan of your imagination............if that was true then indore ,surat,colombo would have no class against bidders of mumbai,dubai,mombasa,USA........

[aziz]

Omadonkey show one occasion when a ziyafat was held during ashara,as for meeting dignitaries what is wrong in that,in kenya the president himself attended the first vaez mombasa ,as for gm and his auctions allegations kindly prove it and please not like insaaf with baseless facts

[aziz]

Omadonkey your hypocracy is great in some threads you want bohras not to miss schooll or work because of ashara and here in this thread you are defending ashara, make up your mind about what you want in ashara

[Smart]

@guy_sam

A nice reply to my post. Completely irrelevant. It proves my point. Can you reason?

Or like aziz you only call others names. I am sure we can understand that because that is the culture that you have been brought up in. Gaali galoch and hatred is the staple diet. It starts from the top, shooting off the mouth and then publicly apologising.

[SBM]

Guy
I did ask you to name only one of any other groups (other Bohra Groups) who do Ziyafats and distribute shaawls right after Ashura ( not even wait for 3 day mourning period) and like others orthos who are on this forum you just did not answer and diverted the topic.
If you really want to be in constructive dialogue please answer or just say you do not know, Truth never hurts but you need twenty thousand other excuses to justify one lie and like others divert the topic.

[aziz]

Bohras also go to work during ashara its only during the vaez times that we close our businesses and if we attend ashara with moula tus,but next day after ashura we go back home and life goes on normaly but as said before imamhussein matam and buka is also part of our lives
so the question of ziyafat or whatever after ashura where does it come from