Some questions about dawoodi bohras

[Human]

Everyone,

I have some questions about our community that the aamil's or the so called 'din na jankaar' couldn't answer. I hope I can find some answers here:

1. Why are we asked to keep beards? Specially during marriages. It looks gross and spoils the wedding photos.
2. Why have kurta-saya become compulsory to enter rozas for zyaarat. I remember when I was a kid, we could go in wearing pant-shirt/tshirt. The only requirement was topi.
3. I remember my mom wearing saree when I was young. Not just my mom, all the bohri women wore 'Indian clothing' which they were comfortable in. Why has this now changed to rida and rida only. It is hard in Indian summer to wear three layers of clothes! Also now the guys are asked to wear topi everyday, everywhere. Why such show? I see everywhere now people with topi and beard, somehow it doesn't feel right. Moreover in dawoodi bohra community people are interested in pulling each other's legs and not letting a fellow brother progress. So what is the point in displaying your identity?
4. From when did it become acceptable (for aamils and royal family) to ask the parents that kids don't appear for exams (even important exams like SSC and HSC) and attend vaaz if the exams fall on a moharram day.
5. Why is it grained into kids heads that attending majlis and following the orthodox practices of bohra are more acceptable than getting decent education?
6. Why has moula now stated that kids should be married at a younger age? (I've previously seen girls as young as 15 getting engaged and then married in a year or two)
7. Why do we discriminate against women? Example: Women have to do 40days of iddat, men do not.
8. I've heard that recently there was a big hooblah about the so called 'lucky guy' who got selected to perform his nikaah by syedna. The guy didn't have beard and was asked by moula that "will you keep beard from now on?" The honest guy just replied the truth rather than making a false promise that "I can't promise, I might try but I won't give you my word for it". The poor honest guy was then reprimanded by zadas and aamils and was given a bad name. Why are honest guys treated like this and the 'ha-ji hajuriyas' and liars are treated with dignity?
9. Does going to majlis and praying namaaz on friday justify (neutralise) things like eating tobacco (pan, gutkha), smoking, drinking, using gaali galoch.
10. Why are we asked to read Quran that is in Arabic and doesn't make a bit of sense? How do we know its good for us without understanding the meaning?

I'll post more questions later as I can think of. I'm sure I had more questions that were unanswered and I can't remember them now.

[Human]

I got some more info about the marriage guy's goofup at rasme saifee in marol. After that incedent (that I mentioned above), they called up the entire jamaat from each city i.e. aamil and all tanzims in a conference like thing called 'Tabedaat' in Surat. The only instruction given to all there was to force the compulsion of 'dadhi' and 'rida'. After that in the chelam majlis of Maulana Hussain about 15 days ago, the only bayaan was about; you guessed it! dadhi and rida! There were also different video clips of bayans from moula (syedna) where he talks about the same thing.

Apart from that, there are emails being sent out to mumin in Surat that those who sign papers that they will keep dadhi and topi forever and follow it will get a gift from jamaat. For women it was to wear 'jodi' at home and rida outside and they will receive a gift from jamaat too.

So, if you're poor or needy, sorry bad luck, we can't help you. But but but, if you follow our ortho practices without asking questions, then we'll gift you. What a load crap!

[haqqun nafs]

are u even a muslim?

all ur query about DB is so hindu fied....ur mom weared saree? damit Astagferulllah i am sure many of guys had eyes on her belly while she walked on street do u even understand concept of HIJAAB?,and u think beard is just to get married and u think ur photos get ruined coz of sunnate Muhammed? damn u must be cursed face,coz beard looks ausm on a face of a real Momeen.

dont wanna reply more on ur post coz u seems to be a jaahil who knows nothing about ISLAAM itself and u are just following it coz u are in muslim family.

[like_minded]

Points raised by Human are valid, Hopefully we have the majority people who start pondering upon these points to realize the pathetic state of this community at present, being degenerated over the years by Kothar for their vested interest.

The motive behind these compulsions is crystal clear, The royal family (goondas) want to rule us for the next 100 years or more.. they just dont want their grip over the community to slip.

[like_minded]

you are such a stupid ass Hol# dont u understand simple fact hijaab and beard isnt a new concept? its a sunnate Muhammed every muslim shud follow it.

Mr. Haq

I guess you don't have your facts right.. There is no compulsion in Islam.

And if you are so bothered about sunnate Mohd... How can you justify the lifestyle of Syedna and his family????? Now don't give me a stupid answer!!

[haqqun nafs]

you are such a stupid ass Hol# dont u understand simple fact hijaab and beard isnt a new concept? its a sunnate Muhammed every muslim shud follow it.

Mr. Haq

I guess you don't have your facts right.. There is no compulsion in Islam.

And if you are so bothered about sunnate Mohd... How can you justify the lifestyle of Syedna and his family????? Now don't give me a stupid answer!!

okay u seems to be a nice guy,well well i dont find any thing against sunnate Muhammed in life style of Syedna Muhammed(TUS) and i dont care what his son does coz they are no one to me unless and untill one of them is announced a DAI.

[merchant786]

Guys ...Mr haggu has lost his Mind...dont even reply his posts

[haqqun nafs]

Guys ...Mr haggu has lost his Mind...dont even reply his posts

may be ur IQ isnt enough to understand my post,try to be muslim first then get into complicated debates.

[Human]

are u even a muslim?

all ur query about DB is so hindu fied....ur mom weared saree? damit Astagferulllah i am sure many of guys had eyes on her belly while she walked on street do u even understand concept of HIJAAB?,and u think beard is just to get married and u think ur photos get ruined coz of sunnate Muhammed? damn u must be cursed face,coz beard looks ausm on a face of a real Momeen.

dont wanna reply more on ur post coz u seems to be a jaahil who knows nothing about ISLAAM itself and u are just following it coz u are in muslim family.

Thank you for your reply. I now see where you're coming from. Let me answer your questions and comment on other statements you made.

I was born to dawoodi bohra parents, so yes I'm a muslim by birth. But I'm also a human following humanity. All religions have these principles in common. Unfortunately people like you are so blindfolded and one eyed that they don't see outside the four walls. People like you are responsible for the unrest in India. If you show so much discrimination against other religions on a blog here, I wonder what you'd teach your kids! I can also imagine how you'd look

Now, the saree bit. As I mentioned it wasn't only my mom, most dawoodi bohra women used to wear saree or punjabi dresses in those days. I can even remember my grandmother. Although, this was only true for educated families. Families like you were brought up in had a different story. I don't blame you for it. Your parents would be uneducated and all they knew would be limited to what the aamil said in the bayaan. You grew up in an environment like this, so yes I see your point. Regarding to your dirty thought about my mom's belly, I can also see that the dirt is in your mind. If I use your perspective then the 'jodi' that bohri women are asked to wear are sexier than a saree as the odhni of a jodi is smaller than a saree, blouse and petticot (skirt) remain the same. So just think about your mom too. Hijaab! Try taking your wife to France in a hijaab and you'll know I bet you don't even know why I mention France there as you're very ignorant about everything else apart from what is mentioned in bayaan and then you'll use your Google skills and find out.

Beard! Find me the verse in quran that mentions the compulsion of dadhi. Scientifically though, I can prove that people with dadhi are more prone to infections and certain sicknesses. Have any more valid arguments for dadhi my friend?

Jaahil! Yes you are right I'm a jaahil, not because I don't know anything about dawoodi bohras. Because I know all the bits that I was told and was expected to agree to, but hey! I questioned their logic and still I don't have logical answers for any of my questions, so from that point of view I am a jaahil. But then you are not better as you didn't really answer any of my questions.

Also as you claim to know everything about ISLAM, please answer all of my questions based on what is written in quran or authentic islamic history; not just 'we have to do it because moula has told'. I'd be eagerly waiting for you to share your knowledge.

[Human]

Guys ...Mr haggu has lost his Mind...dont even reply his posts

may be ur IQ isnt enough to understand my post,try to be muslim first then get into complicated debates.

Haqqun Nafs, I see you keep mentioning IQ over and over again. When I meet you, I'd like to an IQ test alongwith you and see where you stand. For your satisfaction, I'll do the test as well. We'll see how we go first in an IQ test and then we can argue about dawoodi bohra concepts. How's the plan?

[Human]

okay u seems to be a nice guy,well well i dont find any thing against sunnate Muhammed in life style of Syedna Muhammed(TUS) and i dont care what his son does coz they are no one to me unless and untill one of them is announced a DAI.

There is only one problem! Moula makes his own rules as he pleases. And you agree that his sons do stuff that is against sunnate Mohammed and yet you will kiss their feet if you got a chance. Or surely so when one of them becomes a Dai which is destined to happen. I can also reveal that all these prospective dai's to be have a big pressure cooker boiling between them over who'll get the power after the current moula, you'd know that already. Here is something you might not know, the shehzadas have private villas/bungalows in bombay where they go for vacation. Vacations are filled with sharaab, kabaab and shabaab. Do I need to elaborate any further on that my friend? And yet, when they become the next dai, their photos will hang everywhere and they will suddenly become so important. I mean they exist now too; and yet although now a typically strict right wing mumin like you still condones them, but I guess when they become the next dai, you'll have to do tauba for whatever you said against them or you might miss your ticket to heaven.

[like_minded]

you are such a stupid ass Hol# dont u understand simple fact hijaab and beard isnt a new concept? its a sunnate Muhammed every muslim shud follow it.

Mr. Haq

I guess you don't have your facts right.. There is no compulsion in Islam.

And if you are so bothered about sunnate Mohd... How can you justify the lifestyle of Syedna and his family????? Now don't give me a stupid answer!!

okay u seems to be a nice guy,well well i dont find any thing against sunnate Muhammed in life style of Syedna Muhammed(TUS) and i dont care what his son does coz they are no one to me unless and untill one of them is announced a DAI.

Mr Haq

If you dont find anything against sunnate Mohd in the lifestyle of Syedna and his parasitic family... then my friend you are BLIND!!

It is indeed very sad that our community has degenerated to the level where sane people are hard to find... where insanity rules!! Indeed pathetic!!

[like_minded]

Vacations are filled with sharaab, kabaab and shabaab.

Absolutely... One cannot imagine the materialistic pleasures these God pedaling faith jockeys must be having!!!! They must be laughing their guts out.. thinking how gullible and idiotic the followers are... So damn easy to fool them!! Clean them off their wealth and use the same wealth to enslave them.

[Human]

May I also add that the questions I posted above are not intended to make fun of orthodox dawoodi bohras. I am genuinely looking for answers. Every other place I asked, I was told that 'because moula has said so, we believe it; we cannot question what he's said'. But that blind trust can only come if God himself said something, not a human being.

I'd have to say that more than 50% dawoodi bohra youth on a minimum would have these questions buzzing in their mind. The only problem they'd face is that they don't have the courage to ask them. Atleast all the educated mumin brothers would have some of these questions in their mind, I'm sure of it!

[haqqun nafs]

okay u seems to be a nice guy,well well i dont find any thing against sunnate Muhammed in life style of Syedna Muhammed(TUS) and i dont care what his son does coz they are no one to me unless and untill one of them is announced a DAI.

There is only one problem! Moula makes his own rules as he pleases. And you agree that his sons do stuff that is against sunnate Mohammed and yet you will kiss their feet if you got a chance. Or surely so when one of them becomes a Dai which is destined to happen. I can also reveal that all these prospective dai's to be have a big pressure cooker boiling between them over who'll get the power after the current moula, you'd know that already. Here is something you might not know, the shehzadas have private villas/bungalows in bombay where they go for vacation. Vacations are filled with sharaab, kabaab and shabaab. Do I need to elaborate any further on that my friend? And yet, when they become the next dai, their photos will hang everywhere and they will suddenly become so important. I mean they exist now too; and yet although now a typically strict right wing mumin like you still condones them, but I guess when they become the next dai, you'll have to do tauba for whatever you said against them or you might miss your ticket to heaven.

how about this?


give me name of any DAI who was engage in sharaab,kabbab and shabaaab with a proof and i will leave this bohra sect.

[guy_sam2005]

Points raised by Human are valid, Hopefully we have the majority people who start pondering upon these points to realize the pathetic state of this community at present, being degenerated over the years by Kothar for their vested interest.

The motive behind these compulsions is crystal clear, The royal family (goondas) want to rule us for the next 100 years or more.. they just dont want their grip over the community to slip.

pathetic state of which community...the only community in pathetic state is you guys..by the way which community are u in?practically speaking you are not dawoodi bohra..technically you dont deny...

[SBM]

HN

you are such a stupid ass Hol# dont u understand simple fact hijaab and beard isnt a new concept? its a sunnate Muhammed every muslim shud follow it.

DOING WADAHWA AND CIRCLING HIS OR HIS SHEZAADS HEAD IS SUNNATE MUHAMMED OR IS DOING HINDU RITUAL OF AARTI TO GANPATI?
http://www.zeninfosys.net/zeninfosys/ar ... rYear=1431

[Human]

how about this?


give me name of any DAI who was engage in sharaab,kabbab and shabaaab with a proof and i will leave this bohra sect.

Haqqun_nafs, Ok I don't have any proof of the Dai who did all those things so far. But as you agreed his shehzadas do all that and you said you don't care about them. The only point I made is one of them will become a dai and at that time all this will be forgotten.

Its often not too hard for people of great wealth and power to cover-up their wrong doings. Thus, getting proof is hard atleast as of now.

[ghulam muhammed]

give me name of any DAI who was engage in sharaab,kabbab and shabaaab with a proof and i will leave this bohra sect.

I cannot for sure say this about the dais but there is definately some substance in the rendezvous of the late mukasir salehbhai saab and Yusuf Najmuddin in the erstwhile Ambassador Hotel which was owned by them and was later sold to the Narang family (top antique smuggler).

[Al Zulfiqar]

give me name of any DAI who was engage in sharaab,kabbab and shabaaab with a proof and i will leave this bohra sect.

so that you can join them?? you can do all 3 by remaining inside, you know.

[Human]

So far, there have been no decent and logical answers to my questions. I can only go on and confirm my assumption that answers do not exist! There are no logical answers to my questions. All those things are imposed without a proper reason. Ofcourse there's a reason that is to make people's blind faith grow more towards all the leaders. I guess as Hitler ordered to kill Jews and ask for no explanation, our community are asked to do stuff and deprived of a proper explanation too. 'Dictatorship' is the right word. Absolute non-sense. I now feel like a fool wasting all those years in the community, paying money to them and doing all the stuff that the 'cult' orders. I always felt something was not right and I'm lucky to open my eyes now. Better late than never.

Can the orthos justify the 'ring ceremony' we have in our style weddings? Is it an islamic tradition? Then again I'm not expecting sensible answers. One of the ortho fools would come and utter shit about me.

[anajmi]

Human,

Let me try and answer some of your questions from an Islamic point of you. These answers may not satisfy you.

1. Why are we asked to keep beards? Specially during marriages. It looks gross and spoils the wedding photos.

Keeping a beard is a sunnah of the prophet. The prophet Mohammed (saw) has asked muslims to grow their beards and trim their moustaches. If a beard looks gross to you, then do not grow it, however those who believe in the prophet Mohammed as the prophet of Allah believe that whatever he did and asked others to do was as per the will of Allah. People grow beards to try and imitate the prophet or in some cases to try and look like the prophet. However, growing a beard is not a farz and no one has the right to make it a farz under any circumstances.

2. Why have kurta-saya become compulsory to enter rozas for zyaarat. I remember when I was a kid, we could go in wearing pant-shirt/tshirt. The only requirement was topi.

There is no concept of zyaarat as a ritual in Islam. Paying respect to the dead by visiting the grave is allowed, but praying to the dead is not. So whether you wear kurta-saya or pant shirt/tshirt, you are doing what is not allowed.

3. I remember my mom wearing saree when I was young......

Saree is not a dress that meets Islamic standards. Islam asks women to dress modestly and cover their body, especially those parts that may..how do I say it.... titillate a man. Wearing a topi during prayer is also a sunnah of the prophet Mohammed. However, your prayer is completely valid even without a topi. Anyone who converts a sunnah into a farz is going against the tenets of Islam.

4. From when did it become acceptable (for aamils and royal family) to ask the parents that kids don't appear for exams (even important exams like SSC and HSC) and attend vaaz if the exams fall on a moharram day.


This has no basis in Islam.

Rest later.

[like_minded]

anajmi

Good explanation! which proves that Islam is a very practical and tolerant religion.

The blame lies on clergymen like syedna who over the years have twisted and innovated the basics of Islam to suit their own ends.. Shame on him and his likes!!

[Human]

anajmi, I thank you for answering some of my questions from an Islam point of view. They really make sense and as like_minded mentioned, the rules we were asked to follow are just made-up in the last few decades.

I would like to mention about the women wearing sarees, I agree to what anajmi mentioned according to islamic scriptures. However I think that our community used to be one of the most liberal sects of islam and the women in olden days used to wear what they were comfortable in; sarees, salvar kameez, etc. I think S.Insaf mentioned it in one of his posts on another thread as well. However I don't argue the fact that it is unacceptable in islam because it shows certain parts of body capable of titillate men.

[Human]

anajmi, just thought I'd clarify myself more on my previous post. When I asked the question about saree, my meaning was why have we gone backwards. When it was acceptable before so why had it suddenly become unacceptable? (only from dawoodi bohra point of view). By this in anyway I'm not challenging your reply based on Islamic scripture.

[Right]

[quote="haqqun nafs"]are u even a muslim?

all ur query about DB is so hindu fied....ur mom weared saree? damit Astagferulllah i am sure many of guys had eyes on her belly while she walked on street do u even understand concept of HIJAAB?,

Mr HN what HIJAAB are you talking about ? You consider the colourful rida which the bohri women are wearing and looking like colourful butterflies is HIJAAB then you are wrong.
Have you seen the young girls wearing tight fitting ridas, something which is called as fish like, where the ghagra of the rida is fit from tops side showing all the figure of buttocks and hips. Women wearing tight T Shirts and blouse and while travelling in train & bus it is so pathetic. Also see the women when they are running for the deedar of Maula they just pull the ghagra & petticoat up till their knees and running from here to there.

HIJAAB is for distracting people to look at you, but by wearing such kind of Ridas it is more attractive.

[haqqun nafs]

are u even a muslim?

all ur query about DB is so hindu fied....ur mom weared saree? damit Astagferulllah i am sure many of guys had eyes on her belly while she walked on street do u even understand concept of HIJAAB?,

Mr HN what HIJAAB are you talking about ? You consider the colourful rida which the bohri women are wearing and looking like colourful butterflies is HIJAAB then you are wrong. ns a of the rida is fit from tops side showing all the figures of buttocks and hips. Women wearing tight T Shirts and blouse and while travelling in train & bus it is so pathetic. Also see the women when they are running for the deedar of Maula they just pull the ghagra & petticoat up till their knees and running from here to there.

HIJAAB is for distracting people to look at you, but by wearing such kind of Ridas it is more attractive.

i dont care about who gets naked in public and who wears flashy fish ridaas lol...i just care about my family and mother sister and my love one's that they shud be safe and under islaamic boundries,and i am preety sure syednaa has nothing to do if some teenegers or some illitrate women dont understand what HIJAAB is,leader cant be blamed for every tom dick and harry in his community.

example:Muhammed(saw) cant be blamed that he kept those three lanatis with him for years who finally slaped his lovely doughter fatema(a.s) and tied up his son in law with black rob in public and took false aouth and khilafat from him.

[SBM]

HN Quote

i am preety sure syednaa has nothing to do if some teenegers or some illitrate women dont understand what HIJAAB is,leader cant be blamed for every tom dick and harry in his community.

But you and your elk quoted in some many place that Moula is Gahyab nu Ilm, so you cannot have both ways, either he is ignorant or he does not care so which one is? Specially he can see from his CAR how many girls and women standing on the middle of street at Bhendi Bazzar and running, he can announce in his Waiz that no woman should come on the street to do deedar unless he wants general public to do deedar of Bohra women ( I am sure your mother and sisters are always there to do deedar of Syedna as you are die hard abde and if they are not doing this then they are not true follower of Moula)

[ghulam muhammed]

Good explanation! which proves that Islam is a very practical and tolerant religion.

Islam is also a very flexible and modern religion rather then a rigid one which the enemies of this religion try to project.

Although eating flesh of a dead and/or haram animal is forbidden, it is permitted in cases where it becomes a question of life and death.

Although we are required to perform vazu by washing the body parts with water but in exceptional cases it can even be performed by rubbing mud on the body (tayammum).

Although a nikah has to be performed by a qazi/mulla but in exceptional cases the nikah qutba can be recited by the groom himself (eg. if a man and woman are stranded on an island and decide to get married so that they can refrain themselves from commiting sin, where will they find a qazi/mulla ?).

There is NO particular dresscode mentioned anywhere in the Quran, Hadiths or any holy scriptures, only the manner in which one is required to cover himself/herself up is specified. There is no mention of a white kurta/saya or 'bade bhai ka kurta aur chhote bhai ki pyjama' like the one worn by some sects.

Although wearing a topi during namaz is a mark of respect but there is no mention of any colour, shape or kasab ni topi only etc.

Women too are given a lot of rights, much more then what is given to christian and hindu women.

But inspite of the above, muslims are enslaved by the clergy who under the garb of Islam, distorts, twists and manipulates the religion in a manner which gives them full control over the minds and hearts of people and ensures them a steady flow of wealth. There is no better business then Religion especially in the time of the current global crisis wherein more and more people flock to the ulemas/molas thinking that they will resolve their crisis and that they will get mental solace. This is a business which requires little or no capital but ensures a steady and mind bogling income. In any other business, the payee runs after the payer but here it is the reverse, the payer runs to the payee and jumps over one another (like in saifee mahal) so that he can be the first and (un)lucky one to make the payment. This is what religion and Islam is reduced to.

[seeker110]

Religion can be a prison of mind.When dai brings about dress code,he is actually bringing the followers in the cell he himself is imprisoned in.No one can or allowed to think or question his decision.People who are backing him up in this are already prisoners themselves.A free mind is the best gift from Almighty.Keep this gift for yourself.Dont loose it to the whims of a sick and feeble old man.