views on dhadi n topi

[guy_sam2005]

ok i want some genuine thoughts of progs on few points below.no dai or ortho bashing or irrelevent to topic posts plz..
1.is it for good of the community or bad that dai is imposing dhadi and topi????
2.is uniformity in mosque(kurta saaya)really required?
3.are taseerunikah and rasme saify good or bad?
4.is interest free business a realy god idea?

[SBM]

Guy
Even though you did not answer the questions I had posted and never condemned Gaali Gloch by your elks but asking us to do is nothing more than hypocrisy. Having said that I will answer your questions:
1-Having Dadhi is not a problem but not trimming it and let it grow like a Jungle does not look good. Top I could care less
but it should not be mandatory.let people decide
2-Again same applies here. If uniformity is the desire of Dai then how come during his Salgirahas or Milads, people from different regions are allowed to have their own regional clothing. Before the 51st and current, there were no such rules.
3-Taseerunikha and Rasme Saifee is a very good idea except in USA and Western Countries, many of the boys and girls donot participate due to dress Code. Instead of asking them to have Rida and STD, if they are asked to dress modestly, I think it will have greater participation and would benefit community tremendously. This kind of practice is done in USA at ISNA (islamic society of north america) conventions which attracts more than 35,000 people including Kotharis.
4 Interest Free business loan is very good idea and can help small business to prosper BUTYOU DID SAY INTEREST FREE AND NOT QARD-E-HASANAH so it does seem that you definitely know the difference and you are aware what QARDE HASAH means if not let me explain, In Qard-E-Hasanh, you can not ask for guarantees or post dated checks but in interest free loan you can do that.
Again as long as you say it interest free then you can put the conditions but please do not call it QARAD-E-HASANAH
Now I hope you can answer my question I had posted for you earlier and I do believe that you are well connected with Kothar
so welcome to our world Guy Bhaisaheb or Sam Shezaada saheb

[like_minded]

ok i want some genuine thoughts of progs on few points below.no dai or ortho bashing or irrelevent to topic posts plz..
1.is it for good of the community or bad that dai is imposing dhadi and topi????
2.is uniformity in mosque(kurta saaya)really required?
3.are taseerunikah and rasme saify good or bad?
4.is interest free business a realy god idea?

1. Keeping a dhadi and wearing a topi is one's personal choice, nobody on earth has the right to impose this on anyone.

2. Kurta saaya in masjid or anywhere else is again one's choice, If one is comfortable wearing it, there is no problem... but laying it down as a uniform for everyone, whether one likes it or not is goondagardi

3. Rasme saify is again an innovation by Kothar to get the youngsters married at an early age, burdened with responsibilities, these youngsters stop growing intellectually and therefore end up being slaves.

[Human]

ok i want some genuine thoughts of progs on few points below.no dai or ortho bashing or irrelevent to topic posts plz..
1.is it for good of the community or bad that dai is imposing dhadi and topi????
2.is uniformity in mosque(kurta saaya)really required?
3.are taseerunikah and rasme saify good or bad?
4.is interest free business a realy god idea?

Here is my personal opinion:
1. Dai making his own rules as he pleases is bad, it defies the original scripture of our community. And as for dadhi and topi, I'm thankful that I was never like you or the haqqun_nafs guy with a long beard and topi or else I would have dead by now. I barely survived the 2002 riots only because I didn't have a dadhi and a topi and I had enough knowledge about Hinduism to prove to the group of orange clad fanatics that I'm a Hindu. At that time if I was having a dadhi and topi, I was sure gone. 'La hol vila ku vat' wouldn't have saved me then. I am strongly of the opinion that it is a personal choice and should not be imposed.
2. Kurta saaya are not required to be compulsory either. Specially in rozas when you go for zyaarat. Before you were allowed to dress decently and go, so why has it changed now? Who made the change? Is the person really authorised to make changes? NO NO NO.
3 & 4 I agree with Oma and Like_minded's thoughts

While the whole world is progressing why are we going more backwards?

[accountability]

Guy what good would come out by imposing dadhi and topi for the community. Please elobrate.
According to Quran neither grwoing dadhi nor wearing topi is required. At best it is sunnah. There is no sin if you dont grow beard or wear topi. so why imposition.

I am not at all in favour of premature nikahs. Marrying 16 and 17 years girls to young boys ruin their future. Lot of such marriages are becoming troubling and not successful. our young girls are not getting education which is so urgently required in this ever competitative world, so do our boys. I am still at loss to understand why is so much emphasis on nupital marriages. Again Sharia or Quran does not require any such thing. Once more I do not see any good for community.

Intrest free loan is a good idea. But there are two things, its outreach is limited and second it is mostly used to finance trips including ashara, ziarat etc. which puts extra burden on one's budget. It counter porduces by forbiding our community members to take advantage of vast banking system. On one hand community members are forbidden to take loan from banks, but our dawat properties are rented to banks at higher rents, which is paid by intrest income generated by banks.

[SBM]

dhadi and topi has nothing to do with any

fuck!@#in

community its about ISLAAM brought by last prophet Muhammed(saw)
HN
Your parents must be proud of your learning and writing abilities you gained by going to Sabak and Jamiya. Thank your parents for your good upbringing and role model for Orthos
Guy-Sam
How about this posting from your elks, Your silence is an endorsement for this kind of behavior expected from ORTHOS

[bohri]

dhadi and topi has nothing to do with any ....... community its about ISLAAM brought by last prophet Muhammed(saw)

Actually HN , Dhadhi and topi were around in pre-islamic days as well. The Sultan would sees himself as the tyrant if old days and likes to impose these uniforms to strenghten his power.. nothing more...

syednaa is not bringing any thing new from his pocket but he is just trying to imposed islaam sharia which is not bad at all,infact its his duty and he is doing it.

His duty is to serve his community, instead he has looted and enslaved them to make his family fat and greedy. Is that the version of Sharia taught in your sabaks these day?

[S. Insaf]

In my family both from my father side and mother's side members were free to wear and dress as convinient to them. My grandfathers had beard but my four mamoos were clean-shaved. My grand mothers used the Ujjaini 'Khess', my sister used sari, my ants either shalwar-kameez or Bohra charniya odhani. There was no restriction in masjids and majalis of dress code even in Taher Saifuddin Saheb's time. All this restrictions have come after the mass revolt in Udaipur in 70s. I have already posted the photographs of Dawoodi Bohra women in plain dress without rida opposing the first World conference of the reformists in Feb. 1977.

No Britisher has ever compelled any one to wear pents, but today the entire world wears pents because it is convinient.
Man is born naked and had remained naked for centuries. They he/she started wearing cloths according to the climate and tradition of the area he/she lived in.
Islam is a liberal and liberative religion. Quran says "there is no compulsion in religion". How can the compulsion of dress code can be Islamic?

[accountability]

brother oma I did not read HN post, admin may have deleted it due to abusive language.

What sharia are you guys (HN, Sam etc) talking about. There is nothing in sharia regarding growing beard. If you talk about sunnah, which is not shariat, then you cannot pick and chose. You accept one hadith regarding beard but you dismiss others regarding Abu Bakr, Umer and Uthman and Aisha. Abu Harira has narrated hadiths regarding beard and also regarding 3 khalifas and Aisha. If you believe in his ahadith then you have to believe in toto.

But problem with you guys is that you have not researched about any thing. Half baked distorted versions which has no authentication in history are doled out to you and you narrate it without verification. I shall quote you a hadith (this is narrated in all sahai sitta). Prophet said.

"it is enough to declare one liar if he repeats whatever is heard without verification."

[ghulam muhammed]

On one hand community members are forbidden to take loan from banks, but our dawat properties are rented to banks at higher rents, which is paid by intrest income generated by banks.

On one hand, the entire Islamic community is forbidden from drinking, serving or selling ALCOHOL but our dawat properties are rented to WINE SHOPS, ref: Glamour bldg, Arthur bunder road, Colaba, Mumbai.

[Al Zulfiqar]

ok i want some genuine thoughts of progs on few points below.no dai or ortho bashing or irrelevent to topic posts plz..
1.is it for good of the community or bad that dai is imposing dhadi and topi????
2.is uniformity in mosque(kurta saaya)really required?
3.are taseerunikah and rasme saify good or bad?
4.is interest free business a realy god idea?

1. you have used the right words when you say "dai is imposing dhadi and topi" no one can impose anything on anyone in the name of religion. even Mohammed was reprimanded, 'la ikraha fee ad deen'. (there is no compulsion in deen) keeping dadhi is a sunnat and a personal choice and if analysed in depth will reveal many benefits, like preventing homosexuality. but to force people to keep untrimmed beards as a sign of devotion to syedna is nonsense. wearing topi when going to masjid is a sign of respect to our traditions to an act of devotion like prayer, although strictly not a requirement in islam.
2. no uniformity is required to pray in a masjid or any religious place. as bhai insaf has pointed out, there is no compulsion in dress or religion. islam in fact always aims to facilitate and make it easy for muslims to walk on the prescribed path. to force poor bohras to spend money on making saaya, kurta, topi is not justified and becomes a restriction in participation.

in summation of the above 2 points, whenever uniforms are imposed on any society, it usually means creating a means of seperation and isolation and a way of manipulation, and signals a preparedness for some specific work-related purpose, eg. military, scouts, nurses, firemen, factory labour etc. it usually leads to loss of individuality and suppression of personal freedoms in the larger cause, whatever it may be. in our case, it is touted as the creation of a unique identity for bohras. what it only succeeds in doing is isolating us, making us look inwards, highlights our 'difference', and forces us to seek solace and fraternity only within the community, all of which are dangerous and restrictive in today's unitarian world. most sinister is the clear agenda of the kothar to reduce us to an army of abdes and silence any signs of individual dissent, its 'conform or get out' in practice.

3. taiseer un nikah is a good attempt to get our boys and girls to get married within the community, but as brother oma has pointed out, it does not answer or adjust to the aspirations of the youth. they are treated as little kids and lectured on dress, morality and marriage in a restricted atmosphere, whereby they feel like fish in a glass bowl. with a little fine tuning it will serve its purpose better. rasme saify or samuh nikah is a good practice if it genuinely leads to reduction of wasteful expenditure. but where it can be counter productive is when boys and girls are forced to marry at a young age due to this mass nikah excuse or end up spending the same amounts just for pomp and show.

4. one fails to understand the meaning behind your last question. is it rhetorical, as then the answer is obvious, or is it an attempt to stir up some silly debate? which businessman would not want an interest free loan? and what has that got to do with bohras or are you suggesting that some sort of interest free loans are being handed out at jamaat level or from saifee mahal? if you are hinting at qarde hassanah it is not an interest free loan as you already know. i will not go into details. you can ask any banker.

[ghulam muhammed]

is it for good of the community or bad that dai is imposing dhadi and topi????

Tell me very honestly as to how many bohras sport a beard out of true love for Prophet (s.a.w.) and because it is 'Sunnat-e-Rasul (s.a.w.) ? The answer is a BIG NO. They do it ONLY because 'mola nu farman chhe'.

is uniformity in mosque(kurta saaya)really required?

No, it is not at all a 'requirement', it is only ones own choice out of free will (I hope you know what 'free will' means).

[Al Zulfiqar]

2.is uniformity in mosque(kurta saaya)really required?

gay sammy dude,

uniformity in masjid is really required, but not in ridiculous issues like clothes (saaya topi kurta crap). where it is required is in treating all muslims and bohras as equal in rank. we are the only muslims who practise inequality in masjids by having the first row or rows reserved for those who have paid fat sums to buy titles or the amil's sons etc. this is totally against the principles and practice of islam and its prophet. we are the only ones who reserve places in masjids and even sell them among the ladies spaces.

are bohras then muslims or kafirs?

[accountability]

Porus: Can you please tell us
1. Is growing beard a wajib in islam
2. Wearing rida is a sharia obligation.
3. what is riba

sorry to bother you again.

[Maqbool]

This link was posted earlier on this forum by some one. Since the topic is again raised I post the link here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqCVYa9 ... re=related

This caption of film Khuda Ke Liye will give ortho complete view about Libas and Dadhi in Islam.

Hope these miss guided lot will take sabak from this clip.

[SBM]

Willing to sport beard, burkha, Bohris asked
HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times
Email Author
Mumbai, February 17, 2010
First Published: 01:28 IST(17/2/2010)
Last Updated: 01:36 IST(17/2/2010)

Shahzan and Tariq Mamoola (names changed), both in their 40s, were surprised to find a volunteer from a Bohri mosque in Khar at their doorstep a few days ago.

After listening to audio discourses by Dr Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin, the religious leader of the Dawoodi Bohra community, on the virtues of men sporting a beard and women wearing the ridah (traditional Bohri attire), the couple had to fill a form, giving their opinion on these practices.

The volunteer then urged Tariq, who is clean-shaven, and Shahzan, who wears salwar suits, to try and change their ways within a year.

For two months now, volunteers are visiting Bohris to note their stance on religious practices. The drive has surprised some members of the 1.3 lakh strong community — believed to be the most liberal within the Shia sect — in Mumbai.

“As long as we respect the Syedna, respect the religion and pray our namaaz, there is no need for us to dress or look a certain way,” said a 52-year-old Bohri businessman requesting anonymity. “If they force us, it will only create resentment.”

Hussain Khozema, a Colaba businessman, said: “I don’t think it’s as much an enforcement as an assessment of what the community’s reaction to religion is.”

Many believe that the drive aims to fulfill the Syedna’s wishes of uniformity in the global community before he turns 100 in 2012.

Ahmed Ali Yamani from Badri Mahal, the global Bohri administrative centre at Fort, denied the drive was an effort to impose conformity.

“Islam has given instructions on this. It is our culture, and people follow it willingly,” he said.
SAIF BHAI CAN YOU SUBSTANTIATE THIS STORY

[Human]

Thanks for posting this oma.

The drive has surprised some members of the 1.3 lakh strong community - believed to be the most liberal within the Shia sect - in Mumbai.

Maybe our community was the most liberal in shia sect before, not anymore. I think it is now one of the shia sects that is very strict about the bogus rules that are made up to blind the uneducated people. Liberal! My foot, literally! Keep a dadhi, wear saya suit and topi/rida everywhere, get razaa for every darn thing; even if you just wanted to take a piss, etc etc. Such amazing bullshit.

"Islam has given instructions on this. It is our culture, and people follow it willingly," he said.

I am very sure that Islam has not given these instructions and even more sure that people don't follow it willingly. Been there done that. I only broke free because I refused to silently accept the shit they gave me. I'm really pissed to see that they've now started applying indirect pressure + blackmailing techniques. Very shocking really. Matter of fact, I'm only alive typing this message because I didn't follow the stupid dadhi and topi shit-rule in the first place or else I was long gone. I feel a storm brewing, sooner or later this frustration bubble will burst and more people will decide to break free from the ortho shit imposed on us.

[like_minded]

I am very sure that Islam has not given these instructions and even more sure that people don't follow it willingly. Been there done that. I only broke free because I refused to silently accept the shit they gave me. I'm really pissed to see that they've now started applying indirect pressure + blackmailing techniques. Very shocking really. Matter of fact, I'm only alive typing this message because I didn't follow the stupid dadhi and topi shit-rule in the first place or else I was long gone. I feel a storm brewing, sooner or later this frustration bubble will burst and more people will decide to break free from the ortho shit imposed on us by the incontent friggin bastards.

Bro Human

I can understand your frustration as I had gone through the same, especially being pressurized by our family members, thats worse!!! In the course of time I've learnt never to compromise with what suits me the best... and its very important that people around you must be forced to realize this... I never impose my views on anyone and expect the same from others... This is one thing I'm very clear about, no matter what happens.

It is very easy for most youngsters to tag along and join the bandwagon... but to stand up and say NO... requires guts and conviction.... which I am sure all of here have... which is why this movement should roll on..... grow stronger by the day.

[Al Zulfiqar]

human,

you have made some important points, but need to calm down. i know that very often certain issues or debates tend to excite us and arouse our anger and passions. its very easy falling into the same bracket as the fanatics to even the score, so to speak, but then you would be on the same base level as them. avoid the expletives and state your case. as we pull up the abdes for using inappropriate language, we must regulate ourselves too.

remember: be careful when arguing with a stupid fool, people watching may not be able to tell the difference.

take it easy brother..

[haqqun nafs]

Willing to sport beard, burkha, Bohris asked
HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times
Email Author
Mumbai, February 17, 2010
First Published: 01:28 IST(17/2/2010)
Last Updated: 01:36 IST(17/2/2010)

Shahzan and Tariq Mamoola (names changed), both in their 40s, were surprised to find a volunteer from a Bohri mosque in Khar at their doorstep a few days ago.

After listening to audio discourses by Dr Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin, the religious leader of the Dawoodi Bohra community, on the virtues of men sporting a beard and women wearing the ridah (traditional Bohri attire), the couple had to fill a form, giving their opinion on these practices.

The volunteer then urged Tariq, who is clean-shaven, and Shahzan, who wears salwar suits, to try and change their ways within a year.

For two months now, volunteers are visiting Bohris to note their stance on religious practices. The drive has surprised some members of the 1.3 lakh strong community — believed to be the most liberal within the Shia sect — in Mumbai.

“As long as we respect the Syedna, respect the religion and pray our namaaz, there is no need for us to dress or look a certain way,” said a 52-year-old Bohri businessman requesting anonymity. “If they force us, it will only create resentment.”

Hussain Khozema, a Colaba businessman, said: “I don’t think it’s as much an enforcement as an assessment of what the community’s reaction to religion is.”

Many believe that the drive aims to fulfill the Syedna’s wishes of uniformity in the global community before he turns 100 in 2012.

Ahmed Ali Yamani from Badri Mahal, the global Bohri administrative centre at Fort, denied the drive was an effort to impose conformity.

“Islam has given instructions on this. It is our culture, and people follow it willingly,” he said.
SAIF BHAI CAN YOU SUBSTANTIATE THIS STORY

wow thnx that was a great read...


islaam zindaabad,Hussain zindaabad,imam-uz-zamaan zindaabad,syednaa Muammed burhanuddin(TUS) zindaabad...

[Al Zulfiqar]

islaam zindaabad,Hussain zindaabad,imam-uz-zamaan zindaabad,syednaa Muammed burhanuddin(TUS) zindaabad...

haggu,

u forgot about abdesyedna-ghanu-jeevo-vajebaat-haju-vadharo-khaal-donor zindabad??

[SBM]

HN
wow thnx that was a great read..

“As long as we respect the Syedna, respect the religion and pray our namaaz, there is no need for us to dress or look a certain way,” said a 52-year-old Bohri businessman requesting anonymity. “If they force us, it will only create resentment

Thanks HN for agreeing with US

[Human]

human,

you have made some important points, but need to calm down. i know that very often certain issues or debates tend to excite us and arouse our anger and passions. its very easy falling into the same bracket as the fanatics to even the score, so to speak, but then you would be on the same base level as them. avoid the expletives and state your case. as we pull up the abdes for using inappropriate language, we must regulate ourselves too.

remember: be careful when arguing with a stupid fool, people watching may not be able to tell the difference.

take it easy brother..

Brother Al Zulfiqar, I sincerely apologise for using inappropriate words in my post. Yes you are right about regulating ourselves so we are not the same as those blind orthies. I just had a very bad day overall and thus I couldn't control my anger and vented it out here on the forum against the orthies. I extend my apologies to you and all the members of the forum and the members of general public who read my post too. I'm sorry.

[Mubarak]

I barely survived the 2002 riots only because I didn't have a dadhi and a topi and I had enough knowledge about Hinduism to prove to the group of orange clad fanatics that I'm a Hindu. At that time if I was having a dadhi and topi, I was sure gone. 'La hol vila ku vat' wouldn't have saved me then.

Human,

It is your honest wrong belief that only enough Hinduism knowledge and non-beard saved you.

Re: La hol vila ku vat

To begin with beginning, it is nothing (Hindu knowledge, etc) but Allah that has saved your life, who in first place gave you life.

Allah saves or kills whomsoever he wish and not enough Hinduism knowledge whether you recite or not La hol vila ku vat!

Your reasoning that only non-beard state and enough Hinduism knowledge saved you is akin: Haam reply to Prophet Nooh (a.s.) during flood, “I will climb the tallest mountain, mountain will save me.”

[haqqun nafs]

I barely survived the 2002 riots only because I didn't have a dadhi and a topi and I had enough knowledge about Hinduism to prove to the group of orange clad fanatics that I'm a Hindu. At that time if I was having a dadhi and topi, I was sure gone. 'La hol vila ku vat' wouldn't have saved me then.

Human,

It is your honest wrong belief that only enough Hinduism knowledge and non-beard saved you.

Re: La hol vila ku vat

To begin with beginning, it is nothing (Hindu knowledge, etc) but Allah that has saved your life, who in first place gave you life.

Allah saves or kills whomsoever he wish and not enough Hinduism knowledge whether you recite or not La hol vila ku vat!

Your reasoning that only non-beard state and enough Hinduism knowledge saved you is akin: Haam reply to Prophet Nooh (a.s.) during flood, “I will climb the tallest mountain, mountain will save me.”

Mashallah a great reply...in light of Quraan Subhanallah

[Human]

I barely survived the 2002 riots only because I didn't have a dadhi and a topi and I had enough knowledge about Hinduism to prove to the group of orange clad fanatics that I'm a Hindu. At that time if I was having a dadhi and topi, I was sure gone. 'La hol vila ku vat' wouldn't have saved me then.

Human,

It is your honest wrong belief that only enough Hinduism knowledge and non-beard saved you.

Re: La hol vila ku vat

To begin with beginning, it is nothing (Hindu knowledge, etc) but Allah that has saved your life, who in first place gave you life.

Allah saves or kills whomsoever he wish and not enough Hinduism knowledge whether you recite or not La hol vila ku vat!

Your reasoning that only non-beard state and enough Hinduism knowledge saved you is akin: Haam reply to Prophet Nooh (a.s.) during flood, “I will climb the tallest mountain, mountain will save me.”

Mubarak

Ok, I posted that only to back my argument about the enforcement of dadhi and topi in the dawoodi bohra community which is wrong. I did not mention that God did not play a part in there. Didn't type that post considering the spiritual angle at all. Only gave that example because it was a personal experience and it fit the situation.
Didn't mean to offend any extreme right wing members.

PS: Just to add a bit more on that riot experience. After I was sparred from the stabbing, I was saved by hindu friends and lived with them for a month in hiding. Maybe that was Allah's wish too and this time I'm making sure I make a mention. To me, those people were the real humans who did something good out of humanity disregarding the religion or what God we bow to.

[Human]

Human,

It is your honest wrong belief that only enough Hinduism knowledge and non-beard saved you.

Re: La hol vila ku vat

To begin with beginning, it is nothing (Hindu knowledge, etc) but Allah that has saved your life, who in first place gave you life.

Allah saves or kills whomsoever he wish and not enough Hinduism knowledge whether you recite or not La hol vila ku vat!

Your reasoning that only non-beard state and enough Hinduism knowledge saved you is akin: Haam reply to Prophet Nooh (a.s.) during flood, “I will climb the tallest mountain, mountain will save me.”

Mashallah a great reply...in light of Quraan Subhanallah

Yes, mubarak did type up a great reply which made perfect sense. But I can only imagine that you can only praise his reply as you don't have the knowledge or wisdom to have come up with something like that.

[haqqun nafs]

Yes, mubarak did type up a great reply which made perfect sense. But I can only imagine that you can only praise his reply as you don't have the knowledge or wisdom to have come up with something like that.

you are a haam not human ROFL


beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder

[Smart]

Human,

It is your honest wrong belief that only enough Hinduism knowledge and non-beard saved you.

Re: La hol vila ku vat

To begin with beginning, it is nothing (Hindu knowledge, etc) but Allah that has saved your life, who in first place gave you life.

Allah saves or kills whomsoever he wish and not enough Hinduism knowledge whether you recite or not La hol vila ku vat!

Your reasoning that only non-beard state and enough Hinduism knowledge saved you is akin: Haam reply to Prophet Nooh (a.s.) during flood, “I will climb the tallest mountain, mountain will save me.”

Mashallah a great reply...in light of Quraan Subhanallah

Since when have you started believing that Quran and Allah matter?

Isn't it true that orthies like you take passport called the ruqqu chitthi from the Syedna, which can overrule the justice of Allah and take you directly to Jannat, whatever you do, as long as you pay through your nose to his Kothar and Aamils?

[S. Insaf]

Allah saves or kills whomsoever he (He) wish

Is not this absolve the tyrants like Yazid and Narendra Modi from the SIN of killing the innocents?