Purdah after magrib namaz
-
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:50 am
Purdah after magrib namaz
I have never understood the concept of Syedna going in to purdha after every magrob namaz..Some say he is talking with Imam ..Some say he is offering a namaz which is not to be seen by anyone...
Does anyone know what exactly is the case?
Does anyone know what exactly is the case?
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
He is counting money.
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Merchant786,
Maybe there's nothing happening. The only purpose might be to create controversy of dai communicating with the Imam. If he was offering a namaaz, what would be so secretive about it?
Maybe there's nothing happening. The only purpose might be to create controversy of dai communicating with the Imam. If he was offering a namaaz, what would be so secretive about it?
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Agree with Human, there is nothing happening inside. It is just a psychological game, to create an aura of mystique.
There is a very good book on these psychological games by Eric Berne called 'Games People Play'.
There is a very good book on these psychological games by Eric Berne called 'Games People Play'.
-
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:44 am
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
maula bhee great psychologist he " Aa Jaman ni deg ne tyane tyanj jamin ma utari do em order aapi pachhi chaalla javanu , loko pota na man thij badhu bandh bestu besadi deshe ke " joyu e deg ma koi kay karel hatu (cavos) maula ne eni khabar padi gai ghano ilam chhe ghano.( aavu badhu kyarek kyarek karvu joiye !!( karyu chhe!! loko ne ...oo banavawa mate )
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
while reading thru some old posts/comments....i just couldnt resist but comment on this one as follows?
if bohras dont know what a particular rite or ritual means , signifies or accomplishes then why not ask your local clergy or get answers from your higher leaders including the supreme leader ? ; instead or wondering or speculating or just following others OR worse criticising without facts and knowledge? i am just asking so i may learn.. thank you.
if bohras dont know what a particular rite or ritual means , signifies or accomplishes then why not ask your local clergy or get answers from your higher leaders including the supreme leader ? ; instead or wondering or speculating or just following others OR worse criticising without facts and knowledge? i am just asking so i may learn.. thank you.
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
i have not seen curtains drawn after Magrib but after Isha they sure do
and i and majority of sensible people out there believe that its nothing but Syedna (tus) redoing his cotton shawl(kasbi dupatta) before coming out in Public.
Why should there be a hidden meaning in each and every thing
and i and majority of sensible people out there believe that its nothing but Syedna (tus) redoing his cotton shawl(kasbi dupatta) before coming out in Public.
Why should there be a hidden meaning in each and every thing
-
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
aqs wrote:i have not seen curtains drawn after Magrib but after Isha they sure do
and i and majority of sensible people out there believe that its nothing but Syedna (tus) redoing his cotton shawl(kasbi dupatta) before coming out in Public.
Why should there be a hidden meaning in each and every thing
this is so logical and fact,i donno why some ppl lack simple common sense.
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
^
What is so logical about that? Does he go into Purdah everytime he has to adjust his dupatta? Does he never have to adjust his dupatta otherwise?
What aqs writes is more of justification and rationalisation of the drama. Most bohras are told from childhood that he is conferring with the imam, when in Purdah. So, what exactly is he doing. Adjusting the dupatta sounds so trivial.
What is so logical about that? Does he go into Purdah everytime he has to adjust his dupatta? Does he never have to adjust his dupatta otherwise?
What aqs writes is more of justification and rationalisation of the drama. Most bohras are told from childhood that he is conferring with the imam, when in Purdah. So, what exactly is he doing. Adjusting the dupatta sounds so trivial.
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Like i said in my somment earlier , W@HY dont you bohras ask your clerg for a proper explaination and reason for whatever rites or rituals you practice so you get a better understanding of your beliefs and religion.
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Zak,
The Dawoodi fanatics think, they are the Illuminati and possess all knowledge (ROFL ).. They are very secretive..
The Dawoodi fanatics think, they are the Illuminati and possess all knowledge (ROFL ).. They are very secretive..
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Either your spiritual Dai is 'connecting' with your 'hidden' Imam or he is adjusting his duppatta and topi and dadi ... what do your clergy say he is doing in secret ? has anyone asked the clergy to be explained ... about this and all other rites and rituals of your faith ?
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
I have said this in some earlier thread:
Prof AAA Faizee says there is no authantic record of any Dai meeting the hidden Imam except the first Dai Syedna Zoeb (532 Hijri).
On the controversy of 'Nas' on 47th Dai (1256 hijri) few ulemas set out to meet Imam but came back disappointed.
During Burhanpur Dargah Case in 1925 late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb made a statement on oath in the court that "Imam's existence is imaginary. He is just a matter of faith".
When the reformists in those days started making propaganda about it, late Syedna Saheb then in 1939 for the first time, when he was offering Zohar/Asar Namaz in Karachi's Adam Masjid suddenly a curtain was dropped between him and other namazis. Namazis were in the position of ruku then and they remained in that position till the curtain was lifted up again after almost 20 minutes. Then this started happening often and a word was spread that suddenly Imam comes to meet Syedna Saheb for consultation.
In 1951 when I was in Dewas (M.P.), I had heard some Amils making fun of this drama commenting “Imam Namaz na timayj kem awe chhe? Shoo Imam ne Namaz maff chhe!” (Why does Imam come at the time of Namz only? Has Imam been spared from offering Namaz!”
Prof AAA Faizee says there is no authantic record of any Dai meeting the hidden Imam except the first Dai Syedna Zoeb (532 Hijri).
On the controversy of 'Nas' on 47th Dai (1256 hijri) few ulemas set out to meet Imam but came back disappointed.
During Burhanpur Dargah Case in 1925 late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb made a statement on oath in the court that "Imam's existence is imaginary. He is just a matter of faith".
When the reformists in those days started making propaganda about it, late Syedna Saheb then in 1939 for the first time, when he was offering Zohar/Asar Namaz in Karachi's Adam Masjid suddenly a curtain was dropped between him and other namazis. Namazis were in the position of ruku then and they remained in that position till the curtain was lifted up again after almost 20 minutes. Then this started happening often and a word was spread that suddenly Imam comes to meet Syedna Saheb for consultation.
In 1951 when I was in Dewas (M.P.), I had heard some Amils making fun of this drama commenting “Imam Namaz na timayj kem awe chhe? Shoo Imam ne Namaz maff chhe!” (Why does Imam come at the time of Namz only? Has Imam been spared from offering Namaz!”
-
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
must be progressive amils lolS. Insaf wrote:I have said this in some earlier thread:
Prof AAA Faizee says there is no authantic record of any Dai meeting the hidden Imam except the first Dai Syedna Zoeb (532 Hijri).
On the controversy of 'Nas' on 47th Dai (1256 hijri) few ulemas set out to meet Imam but came back disappointed.
During Burhanpur Dargah Case in 1925 late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb made a statement on oath in the court that "Imam's existence is imaginary. He is just a matter of faith".
When the reformists in those days started making propaganda about it, late Syedna Saheb then in 1939 for the first time, when he was offering Zohar/Asar Namaz in Karachi's Adam Masjid suddenly a curtain was dropped between him and other namazis. Namazis were in the position of ruku then and they remained in that position till the curtain was lifted up again after almost 20 minutes. Then this started happening often and a word was spread that suddenly Imam comes to meet Syedna Saheb for consultation.
In 1951 when I was in Dewas (M.P.), I had heard some Amils making fun of this drama commenting “Imam Namaz na timayj kem awe chhe? Shoo Imam ne Namaz maff chhe!” (Why does Imam come at the time of Namz only? Has Imam been spared from offering Namaz!”
-
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
its a common sense if Imam uz zamaan wants to come back he dont need any purda to cnsult with dai e zamaan,when imam will come he will come with authority on world.
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
S. Insaf wrote:I have said this in some earlier thread:
Prof AAA Faizee says there is no authantic record of any Dai meeting the hidden Imam except the first Dai Syedna Zoeb (532 Hijri).
On the controversy of 'Nas' on 47th Dai (1256 hijri) few ulemas set out to meet Imam but came back disappointed.
During Burhanpur Dargah Case in 1925 late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb made a statement on oath in the court that "Imam's existence is imaginary. He is just a matter of faith".
When the reformists in those days started making propaganda about it, late Syedna Saheb then in 1939 for the first time, when he was offering Zohar/Asar Namaz in Karachi's Adam Masjid suddenly a curtain was dropped between him and other namazis. Namazis were in the position of ruku then and they remained in that position till the curtain was lifted up again after almost 20 minutes. Then this started happening often and a word was spread that suddenly Imam comes to meet Syedna Saheb for consultation.
In 1951 when I was in Dewas (M.P.), I had heard some Amils making fun of this drama commenting “Imam Namaz na timayj kem awe chhe? Shoo Imam ne Namaz maff chhe!” (Why does Imam come at the time of Namz only? Has Imam been spared from offering Namaz!”
Insaaf SaheebI have said this in some earlier thread:
Prof AAA Faizee says there is no authantic record of any Dai meeting the hidden Imam except the first Dai Syedna Zoeb (532 Hijri).
why to stop there i will go one step ahead and say that none of the Dais inclusing 1st Syedna Zoeb(aq) did'nt know the whereabouts of Imam, i have mentioned this in one of the thread in discussion with Porus.
when Imam(as)in in purdah so where did these so called Reformist Ulemas went to find himOn the controversy of 'Nas' on 47th Dai (1256 hijri) few ulemas set out to meet Imam but came back disappointed.
again i will request you to quote from the original archives of the court caseDuring Burhanpur Dargah Case in 1925 late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb made a statement on oath in the court that "Imam's existence is imaginary. He is just a matter of faith".
I presume you are in your 60's, you were not present there to witness this, so who told you this fantastic piece of information? sure must have been a insiderWhen the reformists in those days started making propaganda about it, late Syedna Saheb then in 1939 for the first time, when he was offering Zohar/Asar Namaz in Karachi's Adam Masjid suddenly a curtain was dropped between him and other namazis. Namazis were in the position of ruku then and they remained in that position till the curtain was lifted up again after almost 20 minutes. Then this started happening often and a word was spread that suddenly Imam comes to meet Syedna Saheb for consultation.
again the least said is better on this claim of yours, between how old were you in 1951In 1951 when I was in Dewas (M.P.), I had heard some Amils making fun of this drama commenting “Imam Namaz na timayj kem awe chhe? Shoo Imam ne Namaz maff chhe!” (Why does Imam come at the time of Namz only? Has Imam been spared from offering Namaz!”
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
does you spiritual leader "talk" to hidden Imam?
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
he gets the ilhamzak wrote:does you spiritual leader "talk" to hidden Imam?
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Sorry but whats an ilham? live a voice or a vision ? revelation?aqs wrote:he gets the ilhamzak wrote:does you spiritual leader "talk" to hidden Imam?
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
If so please answer my query posted above as to what exactly does he do?incredible wrote:its a common sense if Imam uz zamaan wants to come back he dont need any purda to cnsult with dai e zamaan,when imam will come he will come with authority on world.
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Dear aqs,
Imam was in contact with Maulatena Hurra Maleka and First Dai because Imam was very much present then.
The entire Burhanpur Dargah Case is in record and copies are available even today.
The ulema who went to see Imam were from a committee of learned Mashaikh known as "Hilful-Fazaeel' in Surat and not reformists.
Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had started a practice of publishing and widely distributing the books with, initially black and white photographs, to glorify himself. The incident of suddenly dropping the purda in Adam Masjid in Karachi is described in a Souvenir "Saifee Golden Jubilee Number - dated 1382 AH Karachi. The members of the committee were Mansoor T. Mohiyuddin (President), Mozer A. Vasi (Convener), Abdullah M. A. Motiwala, Dawoodi Diwan, Dawoodi Masavi, Hasanbhai Hajisahebwala and 10 others. They were all loyalists and not reformist.
I am 70 years old now and I know that a well-paid lawyer can even justify a murder taken place in the full view of the public but that will not hide the facts.
Imam was in contact with Maulatena Hurra Maleka and First Dai because Imam was very much present then.
The entire Burhanpur Dargah Case is in record and copies are available even today.
The ulema who went to see Imam were from a committee of learned Mashaikh known as "Hilful-Fazaeel' in Surat and not reformists.
Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had started a practice of publishing and widely distributing the books with, initially black and white photographs, to glorify himself. The incident of suddenly dropping the purda in Adam Masjid in Karachi is described in a Souvenir "Saifee Golden Jubilee Number - dated 1382 AH Karachi. The members of the committee were Mansoor T. Mohiyuddin (President), Mozer A. Vasi (Convener), Abdullah M. A. Motiwala, Dawoodi Diwan, Dawoodi Masavi, Hasanbhai Hajisahebwala and 10 others. They were all loyalists and not reformist.
I am 70 years old now and I know that a well-paid lawyer can even justify a murder taken place in the full view of the public but that will not hide the facts.
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Insaaf Saheb,S. Insaf wrote:Dear aqs,
Imam was in contact with Maulatena Hurra Maleka and First Dai because Imam was very much present then.
I have already mentioned this before that Daur us Satr started only when Hurratul Maleka died as she was the last one to know the whereabouts of Imam(as).
now you write that Imam was very much present then so what happend after that
please quote the relevant para for my referenceThe entire Burhanpur Dargah Case is in record and copies are available even today.
how learned they were can be very well understood by there search for a hidden ImamThe ulema who went to see Imam were from a committee of learned Mashaikh, known as "Hilful-Fazaeel' in Surat and not reformists.
definitely you will have the book in hand please scan and post the pages of Syedna (aq) being in purdah and people had to be in Ruku for 20 minutesSyedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had started a practice of publishing and widely distributing the books with, initially black and white photographs, to glorify himself. The incident of suddenly dropping the purda in Adam Masjid in Karachi is described in a Souvenir "Saifee Golden Jubilee Number - dated 1382 AH Karachi. The members of the committee were Mansoor T. Mohiyuddin (President), Mozer A. Vasi (Convener), Abdullah M. A. Motiwala, Dawoodi Diwan, Dawoodi Masavi, Hasanbhai Hajisahebwala and 10 others. They were all loyalists and not reformist.
I have a long way to go and learn from seniors like you.I am 70 years old now and I know that a well-paid lawyer can even justify a murder taken place in the full view of the public but that will not hide the facts.
-
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Why does it needs to be explained. We Bohras have no problems are feel no curiosity. Why should outsiders demand an explanation? As for conferring with the Imam, that is just old wives tales.zak wrote:Either your spiritual Dai is 'connecting' with your 'hidden' Imam or he is adjusting his duppatta and topi and dadi ... what do your clergy say he is doing in secret ? has anyone asked the clergy to be explained ... about this and all other rites and rituals of your faith ?
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Does a bohra Dai get directions,instructions and guidance from' hidden' Imam ? Is the Dai a visible representative of invisible Imam OR is he infact a pseudo-Imam himself.? please explain so i can understand Dai/Imam concept clearly. Thank you.profastian wrote:Why does it needs to be explained. We Bohras have no problems are feel no curiosity. Why should outsiders demand an explanation? As for conferring with the Imam, that is just old wives tales.zak wrote:Either your spiritual Dai is 'connecting' with your 'hidden' Imam or he is adjusting his duppatta and topi and dadi ... what do your clergy say he is doing in secret ? has anyone asked the clergy to be explained ... about this and all other rites and rituals of your faith ?
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
there have been a lot of divisions in the bohri religion. no dai can claim himself an imam. all the dais are answerable to the hidden imam. but the khojas already have a living imam. the bohri and khoja religions were the same people and community with the same religious traditions and values right upto the 19th. imam.
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
who are the khojas? is that the non-Dawoodi bohras??mumin wrote:there have been a lot of divisions in the bohri religion. no dai can claim himself an imam. all the dais are answerable to the hidden imam. but the khojas already have a living imam. the bohri and khoja religions were the same people and community with the same religious traditions and values right upto the 19th. imam.
i also asked if Dai gets guidance /derection from hidden imam about all matters ? or just spiritual matters and Dai himself runs the material matters ..like funds , charity , collections of money, charity etc etc
Please explain in detail . thanks.
Who is the living Imam of the khojas ? so if you are same as khoja community then shouldnt you all have same Imam ? My understanding is that in Shias there is only one imam from Ali. why is yours hiding ?
Re: Purdah after magrib namaz
Is Dai connecting with Imam in purdah? either you dont know or dont want to explain.profastian wrote:Why does it needs to be explained. We Bohras have no problems are feel no curiosity. Why should outsiders demand an explanation? As for conferring with the Imam, that is just old wives tales.zak wrote:Either your spiritual Dai is 'connecting' with your 'hidden' Imam or he is adjusting his duppatta and topi and dadi ... what do your clergy say he is doing in secret ? has anyone asked the clergy to be explained ... about this and all other rites and rituals of your faith ?
why are many bohra either believeing or 'spreading' this old wives tale ?
Seriously , any rite or ritual in a faith , especially a muslim sect must be explained and understood in the context of Quran ,Prophet and Imams...[for shias ] and i guess the Dai for bohras. Am i right on that at least ?