Purdah after magrib namaz

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merchant786
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:50 am

Purdah after magrib namaz

#1

Unread post by merchant786 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:54 pm

I have never understood the concept of Syedna going in to purdha after every magrob namaz..Some say he is talking with Imam ..Some say he is offering a namaz which is not to be seen by anyone...

Does anyone know what exactly is the case?

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#2

Unread post by seeker110 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:33 am

He is counting money.

Human
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:24 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#3

Unread post by Human » Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:14 pm

Merchant786,

Maybe there's nothing happening. The only purpose might be to create controversy of dai communicating with the Imam. If he was offering a namaaz, what would be so secretive about it?

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#4

Unread post by Smart » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:43 pm

Agree with Human, there is nothing happening inside. It is just a psychological game, to create an aura of mystique.
There is a very good book on these psychological games by Eric Berne called 'Games People Play'.

master.b00t
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:44 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#5

Unread post by master.b00t » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:09 am

maula bhee great psychologist he " Aa Jaman ni deg ne tyane tyanj jamin ma utari do em order aapi pachhi chaalla javanu , loko pota na man thij badhu bandh bestu besadi deshe ke " joyu e deg ma koi kay karel hatu (cavos) maula ne eni khabar padi gai ghano ilam chhe ghano.( aavu badhu kyarek kyarek karvu joiye !!( karyu chhe!! loko ne ...oo banavawa mate :D )

zak
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#6

Unread post by zak » Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:17 pm

while reading thru some old posts/comments....i just couldnt resist but comment on this one as follows?

if bohras dont know what a particular rite or ritual means , signifies or accomplishes then why not ask your local clergy or get answers from your higher leaders including the supreme leader ? ; instead or wondering or speculating or just following others OR worse criticising without facts and knowledge? i am just asking so i may learn.. thank you.

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#7

Unread post by aqs » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:23 am

i have not seen curtains drawn after Magrib but after Isha they sure do

and i and majority of sensible people out there believe that its nothing but Syedna (tus) redoing his cotton shawl(kasbi dupatta) before coming out in Public.

Why should there be a hidden meaning in each and every thing

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#8

Unread post by incredible » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:46 am

aqs wrote:i have not seen curtains drawn after Magrib but after Isha they sure do

and i and majority of sensible people out there believe that its nothing but Syedna (tus) redoing his cotton shawl(kasbi dupatta) before coming out in Public.

Why should there be a hidden meaning in each and every thing

this is so logical and fact,i donno why some ppl lack simple common sense.

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#9

Unread post by Smart » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:14 am

^
What is so logical about that? Does he go into Purdah everytime he has to adjust his dupatta? Does he never have to adjust his dupatta otherwise?

What aqs writes is more of justification and rationalisation of the drama. Most bohras are told from childhood that he is conferring with the imam, when in Purdah. So, what exactly is he doing. Adjusting the dupatta sounds so trivial.

zak
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#10

Unread post by zak » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:24 am

Like i said in my somment earlier , W@HY dont you bohras ask your clerg for a proper explaination and reason for whatever rites or rituals you practice so you get a better understanding of your beliefs and religion.

Conscíous
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#11

Unread post by Conscíous » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:55 am

Zak,
The Dawoodi fanatics think, they are the Illuminati and possess all knowledge (ROFL :mrgreen: ).. They are very secretive..

zak
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#12

Unread post by zak » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:47 am

Either your spiritual Dai is 'connecting' with your 'hidden' Imam or he is adjusting his duppatta and topi and dadi ... what do your clergy say he is doing in secret ? has anyone asked the clergy to be explained ... about this and all other rites and rituals of your faith ?

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#13

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:45 pm

I have said this in some earlier thread:
Prof AAA Faizee says there is no authantic record of any Dai meeting the hidden Imam except the first Dai Syedna Zoeb (532 Hijri).
On the controversy of 'Nas' on 47th Dai (1256 hijri) few ulemas set out to meet Imam but came back disappointed.
During Burhanpur Dargah Case in 1925 late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb made a statement on oath in the court that "Imam's existence is imaginary. He is just a matter of faith".
When the reformists in those days started making propaganda about it, late Syedna Saheb then in 1939 for the first time, when he was offering Zohar/Asar Namaz in Karachi's Adam Masjid suddenly a curtain was dropped between him and other namazis. Namazis were in the position of ruku then and they remained in that position till the curtain was lifted up again after almost 20 minutes. Then this started happening often and a word was spread that suddenly Imam comes to meet Syedna Saheb for consultation.
In 1951 when I was in Dewas (M.P.), I had heard some Amils making fun of this drama commenting “Imam Namaz na timayj kem awe chhe? Shoo Imam ne Namaz maff chhe!” (Why does Imam come at the time of Namz only? Has Imam been spared from offering Namaz!”

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#14

Unread post by incredible » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:58 pm

S. Insaf wrote:I have said this in some earlier thread:
Prof AAA Faizee says there is no authantic record of any Dai meeting the hidden Imam except the first Dai Syedna Zoeb (532 Hijri).
On the controversy of 'Nas' on 47th Dai (1256 hijri) few ulemas set out to meet Imam but came back disappointed.
During Burhanpur Dargah Case in 1925 late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb made a statement on oath in the court that "Imam's existence is imaginary. He is just a matter of faith".
When the reformists in those days started making propaganda about it, late Syedna Saheb then in 1939 for the first time, when he was offering Zohar/Asar Namaz in Karachi's Adam Masjid suddenly a curtain was dropped between him and other namazis. Namazis were in the position of ruku then and they remained in that position till the curtain was lifted up again after almost 20 minutes. Then this started happening often and a word was spread that suddenly Imam comes to meet Syedna Saheb for consultation.
In 1951 when I was in Dewas (M.P.), I had heard some Amils making fun of this drama commenting “Imam Namaz na timayj kem awe chhe? Shoo Imam ne Namaz maff chhe!” (Why does Imam come at the time of Namz only? Has Imam been spared from offering Namaz!”
must be progressive amils lol

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#15

Unread post by incredible » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:59 pm

its a common sense if Imam uz zamaan wants to come back he dont need any purda to cnsult with dai e zamaan,when imam will come he will come with authority on world.

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#16

Unread post by aqs » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 pm

S. Insaf wrote:I have said this in some earlier thread:
Prof AAA Faizee says there is no authantic record of any Dai meeting the hidden Imam except the first Dai Syedna Zoeb (532 Hijri).
On the controversy of 'Nas' on 47th Dai (1256 hijri) few ulemas set out to meet Imam but came back disappointed.
During Burhanpur Dargah Case in 1925 late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb made a statement on oath in the court that "Imam's existence is imaginary. He is just a matter of faith".
When the reformists in those days started making propaganda about it, late Syedna Saheb then in 1939 for the first time, when he was offering Zohar/Asar Namaz in Karachi's Adam Masjid suddenly a curtain was dropped between him and other namazis. Namazis were in the position of ruku then and they remained in that position till the curtain was lifted up again after almost 20 minutes. Then this started happening often and a word was spread that suddenly Imam comes to meet Syedna Saheb for consultation.
In 1951 when I was in Dewas (M.P.), I had heard some Amils making fun of this drama commenting “Imam Namaz na timayj kem awe chhe? Shoo Imam ne Namaz maff chhe!” (Why does Imam come at the time of Namz only? Has Imam been spared from offering Namaz!”
I have said this in some earlier thread:
Prof AAA Faizee says there is no authantic record of any Dai meeting the hidden Imam except the first Dai Syedna Zoeb (532 Hijri).
Insaaf Saheeb
why to stop there i will go one step ahead and say that none of the Dais inclusing 1st Syedna Zoeb(aq) did'nt know the whereabouts of Imam, i have mentioned this in one of the thread in discussion with Porus.
On the controversy of 'Nas' on 47th Dai (1256 hijri) few ulemas set out to meet Imam but came back disappointed.
when Imam(as)in in purdah so where did these so called Reformist Ulemas went to find him
During Burhanpur Dargah Case in 1925 late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb made a statement on oath in the court that "Imam's existence is imaginary. He is just a matter of faith".
again i will request you to quote from the original archives of the court case
When the reformists in those days started making propaganda about it, late Syedna Saheb then in 1939 for the first time, when he was offering Zohar/Asar Namaz in Karachi's Adam Masjid suddenly a curtain was dropped between him and other namazis. Namazis were in the position of ruku then and they remained in that position till the curtain was lifted up again after almost 20 minutes. Then this started happening often and a word was spread that suddenly Imam comes to meet Syedna Saheb for consultation.
I presume you are in your 60's, you were not present there to witness this, so who told you this fantastic piece of information? sure must have been a insider
In 1951 when I was in Dewas (M.P.), I had heard some Amils making fun of this drama commenting “Imam Namaz na timayj kem awe chhe? Shoo Imam ne Namaz maff chhe!” (Why does Imam come at the time of Namz only? Has Imam been spared from offering Namaz!”
again the least said is better on this claim of yours, between how old were you in 1951

zak
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#17

Unread post by zak » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:21 pm

does you spiritual leader "talk" to hidden Imam?

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#18

Unread post by aqs » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:46 pm

zak wrote:does you spiritual leader "talk" to hidden Imam?
he gets the ilham

zak
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#19

Unread post by zak » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:04 pm

aqs wrote:
zak wrote:does you spiritual leader "talk" to hidden Imam?
he gets the ilham
Sorry but whats an ilham? live a voice or a vision ? revelation?

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#20

Unread post by Smart » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:23 pm

incredible wrote:its a common sense if Imam uz zamaan wants to come back he dont need any purda to cnsult with dai e zamaan,when imam will come he will come with authority on world.
If so please answer my query posted above as to what exactly does he do?

S. Insaf
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#21

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:35 pm

Dear aqs,
Imam was in contact with Maulatena Hurra Maleka and First Dai because Imam was very much present then.
The entire Burhanpur Dargah Case is in record and copies are available even today.
The ulema who went to see Imam were from a committee of learned Mashaikh known as "Hilful-Fazaeel' in Surat and not reformists.
Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had started a practice of publishing and widely distributing the books with, initially black and white photographs, to glorify himself. The incident of suddenly dropping the purda in Adam Masjid in Karachi is described in a Souvenir "Saifee Golden Jubilee Number - dated 1382 AH Karachi. The members of the committee were Mansoor T. Mohiyuddin (President), Mozer A. Vasi (Convener), Abdullah M. A. Motiwala, Dawoodi Diwan, Dawoodi Masavi, Hasanbhai Hajisahebwala and 10 others. They were all loyalists and not reformist.

I am 70 years old now and I know that a well-paid lawyer can even justify a murder taken place in the full view of the public but that will not hide the facts.

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#22

Unread post by aqs » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:50 am

S. Insaf wrote:Dear aqs,
Imam was in contact with Maulatena Hurra Maleka and First Dai because Imam was very much present then.
Insaaf Saheb,

I have already mentioned this before that Daur us Satr started only when Hurratul Maleka died as she was the last one to know the whereabouts of Imam(as).

now you write that Imam was very much present then so what happend after that

The entire Burhanpur Dargah Case is in record and copies are available even today.
please quote the relevant para for my reference

The ulema who went to see Imam were from a committee of learned Mashaikh, known as "Hilful-Fazaeel' in Surat and not reformists.
how learned they were can be very well understood by there search for a hidden Imam

Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had started a practice of publishing and widely distributing the books with, initially black and white photographs, to glorify himself. The incident of suddenly dropping the purda in Adam Masjid in Karachi is described in a Souvenir "Saifee Golden Jubilee Number - dated 1382 AH Karachi. The members of the committee were Mansoor T. Mohiyuddin (President), Mozer A. Vasi (Convener), Abdullah M. A. Motiwala, Dawoodi Diwan, Dawoodi Masavi, Hasanbhai Hajisahebwala and 10 others. They were all loyalists and not reformist.
definitely you will have the book in hand please scan and post the pages of Syedna (aq) being in purdah and people had to be in Ruku for 20 minutes
I am 70 years old now and I know that a well-paid lawyer can even justify a murder taken place in the full view of the public but that will not hide the facts.
I have a long way to go and learn from seniors like you.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#23

Unread post by profastian » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:08 am

zak wrote:Either your spiritual Dai is 'connecting' with your 'hidden' Imam or he is adjusting his duppatta and topi and dadi ... what do your clergy say he is doing in secret ? has anyone asked the clergy to be explained ... about this and all other rites and rituals of your faith ?
Why does it needs to be explained. We Bohras have no problems are feel no curiosity. Why should outsiders demand an explanation? As for conferring with the Imam, that is just old wives tales.

zak
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#24

Unread post by zak » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:19 am

profastian wrote:
zak wrote:Either your spiritual Dai is 'connecting' with your 'hidden' Imam or he is adjusting his duppatta and topi and dadi ... what do your clergy say he is doing in secret ? has anyone asked the clergy to be explained ... about this and all other rites and rituals of your faith ?
Why does it needs to be explained. We Bohras have no problems are feel no curiosity. Why should outsiders demand an explanation? As for conferring with the Imam, that is just old wives tales.
Does a bohra Dai get directions,instructions and guidance from' hidden' Imam ? Is the Dai a visible representative of invisible Imam OR is he infact a pseudo-Imam himself.? please explain so i can understand Dai/Imam concept clearly. Thank you.

mumin
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#25

Unread post by mumin » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:59 am

there have been a lot of divisions in the bohri religion. no dai can claim himself an imam. all the dais are answerable to the hidden imam. but the khojas already have a living imam. the bohri and khoja religions were the same people and community with the same religious traditions and values right upto the 19th. imam.

zak
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#26

Unread post by zak » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:27 pm

mumin wrote:there have been a lot of divisions in the bohri religion. no dai can claim himself an imam. all the dais are answerable to the hidden imam. but the khojas already have a living imam. the bohri and khoja religions were the same people and community with the same religious traditions and values right upto the 19th. imam.
who are the khojas? is that the non-Dawoodi bohras??
i also asked if Dai gets guidance /derection from hidden imam about all matters ? or just spiritual matters and Dai himself runs the material matters ..like funds , charity , collections of money, charity etc etc
Please explain in detail . thanks.

Who is the living Imam of the khojas ? so if you are same as khoja community then shouldnt you all have same Imam ? My understanding is that in Shias there is only one imam from Ali. why is yours hiding ?

accountability
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Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#27

Unread post by accountability » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:49 pm

sorry

zak
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Purdah after magrib namaz

#28

Unread post by zak » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:46 pm

profastian wrote:
zak wrote:Either your spiritual Dai is 'connecting' with your 'hidden' Imam or he is adjusting his duppatta and topi and dadi ... what do your clergy say he is doing in secret ? has anyone asked the clergy to be explained ... about this and all other rites and rituals of your faith ?
Why does it needs to be explained. We Bohras have no problems are feel no curiosity. Why should outsiders demand an explanation? As for conferring with the Imam, that is just old wives tales.
Is Dai connecting with Imam in purdah? either you dont know or dont want to explain.
why are many bohra either believeing or 'spreading' this old wives tale ?
Seriously , any rite or ritual in a faith , especially a muslim sect must be explained and understood in the context of Quran ,Prophet and Imams...[for shias ] and i guess the Dai for bohras. Am i right on that at least ?