Birth Day celebrations of Syedna(tus) by Reformists

[aqs]

A very simple and honest question.

Did you people celebrated Syedna(tus) birthday. If not i understand. But if yes then how

[SBM]

Aqs
Just an observation, there were no political leaders greeting Syedna at the Milad function, was it by design or political leaders shied away.

[aqs]

i dont know man, i just asked how Reformists celebrated thats it. if you want to you can create another thread of the same and then see how people fall on each other to react.

[ANA BOHRI]

I am a Dawoodi Bohra and not a bohra youth but still I didn't attend any of the functions, not even yesterday's mass celebration because I feel its real waste of time and money. I would sit at home and celebrate it rather than going to markaz/Mosque to celebrate a birthday .which in my view is made solely for pray.

[aqs]

Thanks Ana Bohri for your enlightening comment.

any other

or Reformists just give a lip service when they say they recognize Syedna(tus) as the religious head and does not have any objection of the dai as a religious leader

[Humsafar]

aqs, there is no tradition of celebrating Dai's birthday. It is an innovation. No, reformists do not celebrate his birthday, although they wish him well.

[guy_sam2005]

I am a Dawoodi Bohra and not a bohra youth but still I didn't attend any of the functions, not even yesterday's mass celebration because I feel its real waste of time and money. I would sit at home and celebrate it rather than going to markaz/Mosque to celebrate a birthday .which in my view is made solely for pray.

ok for that reason u can justify missin the procession n all..but waaz????

[master.b00t]

burhanuddin maula dharm-aadhyatmik drishti se utne hi aandhe he jitna ek bhovtikvaadi -sansarik aadmi hota he, dharm ka sambandh vairagya se he, agar koi dharmguru apni salgirah khud apni khushi se manata ho aur ye jalse se use bahot maza aata ho( halaki asli maza to yeh he ki charo aur maula maula ho, sabhi mera naam le meri prashansha ke geet gaaye IN SE BADA AAYUSH BADHANE KA AUR KOI KAARAN NAHI, YAHI KAARAN HE KI ,FILMSTARS,POLITICIONS, CELEBRITY KI UMAR BADH JAATI HE YE JO "YASH' CHARO AUR MILTA HE INSE BADI KOI INDRIYA NAHI INSE BADA KOI RAS NAHI , SHOHRAT SABSE BADA KAARAN HE UMRA ME IZZAFA HONA) paav kabr me latak rahe he aur ye sahab mrityu ko bhula kar aise khel kar rahe he jo ki bilkool hi criticize karne yogya he, Ek dharm guru ka janam din manane se andha aur koi kaam nahi , puri zindagi jo aadmi aadhyatmik point of view se dead raha ho ,dark raha ho wo jayega bhi mudh ki tarah ,aadhyatmik dristi se behosh, ye koi dharm nahi he ,ye aadmi ek vyavastha chala raha he ,community ki vyavastha, to ye dharmguru nahi he, ye ek achhe vyavasthapak he jinka asli dharm se koi lena dena nahi.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro Aqs,

Just a simple question to you for which I request you to please introspect within:

What is the status of Prophet (s.a.w.) as compared to dai ? If you believe that he is at the zenith then just look around you and let me know of a single 'Milad-un-Nabi' being celebrated with even 5% of the pomp, glamour and show as compared to the extravaganza during each and every birthdays of burhanuddin saab and urus of taher saifuddin saab. Hasnt the greatness of Prophet (s.a.w.) being systematically downplayed to give way to a new face (burhanudin saab) which is the only central point of focus for bohras ?

[aqs]

Bro Aqs,

Just a simple question to you for which I request you to please introspect within:

What is the status of Prophet (s.a.w.) as compared to dai ? If you believe that he is at the zenith then just look around you and let me know of a single 'Milad-un-Nabi' being celebrated with even 5% of the pomp, glamour and show as compared to the extravaganza during each and every birthdays of burhanuddin saab and urus of taher saifuddin saab. Hasnt the greatness of Prophet (s.a.w.) being systematically downplayed to give way to a new face (burhanudin saab) which is the only central point of focus for bohras ?

Brother Ghulam Muhammed,

I agree that Prophet is at the Zenith, and you will also agree that all the Imams and Prophets or Ambiya will have a place higher than a Dai, its practically impossible to celebrate for everyone.
Now we come back to the topic that why so much importance. Then you might agree that according to Fatimid dawat this is daur us satr and in Imam's seclucion, Dai is the absolute power. This is the reason so much importance is given.

and between In present times only we have started juloos on occasion of Miladun nabi(saw) which was not their in any previous Dai's era, or if it was their i am not quite aware about it.

Greatness of Prophet is systematically set in the minds of Bohra's by starting the tabuddat amal from Prophet's (saw) B'day.

[who2trust]

Brother Ghulam Muhammed,

I agree that Prophet is at the Zenith, and you will also agree that all the Imams and Prophets or Ambiya will have a place higher than a Dai, its practically impossible to celebrate for everyone.
Now we come back to the topic that why so much importance. Then you might agree that according to Fatimid dawat this is daur us satr and in Imam's seclucion, Dai is the absolute power. This is the reason so much importance is given.

and between In present times only we have started juloos on occasion of Miladun nabi(saw) which was not their in any previous Dai's era, or if it was their i am not quite aware about it.

Greatness of Prophet is systematically set in the minds of Bohra's by starting the tabuddat amal from Prophet's (saw) B'day.

As salaam,

Bro Aqs, my question to you is, Are we celebrating these functions which never ever happd before for any Dai, just to keep Syedna burhanuddin happy becouse he likes to celebrate his own birthday in grand manner or we are celebrating these coz we are respecting the post of dai mutlaq.
let me be more clear-- main aapse jaanna chahta hoon k Kya DB's will still be doing all taam jhaam for the next Dai? Or this is just becouse the current Dai likes celebrating his own birthday?

[aqs]

walekum as salaam,

celebrations were always a part of dawat, may be in previous dai's time they were not on this grand level for which many factors were responsible mainly finance, communication, transport pressure from rulling people.

May Allah give you more life than present Syedna(tus) and then you will definitely know what happens in next dai's time. seriously i dont know

[who2trust]

walekum as salaam,

celebrations were always a part of dawat, may be in previous dai's time they were not on this grand level for which many factors were responsible mainly finance, communication, transport pressure from rulling people.

May Allah give you more life than present Syedna(tus) and then you will definitely know what happens in next dai's time. seriously i dont know

Thank you Bro Aqs for your reply, so my understanding says if next dai or say if Imam appears (as we belive that Imam will be back on earth) and do not want his birthday or any other celebration to be grand (though money is not a problem), then for sure we are going to follow his orders. Now, the question will arise -- Was Syedna guiding us to the right path or the way he wanted and if syedna burahanudding was guiding us on the right path so will you go against the next dai?
Also, I belive if one attending these celebrations and waiz cannot be sure of Jannat directly so that means if you do not attend these functions there is no harm to you.

[aqs]

walekum as salaam,

celebrations were always a part of dawat, may be in previous dai's time they were not on this grand level for which many factors were responsible mainly finance, communication, transport pressure from rulling people.

May Allah give you more life than present Syedna(tus) and then you will definitely know what happens in next dai's time. seriously i dont know

Thank you Bro Aqs for your reply, so my understanding says if next dai or say if Imam appears (as we belive that Imam will be back on earth) and do not want his birthday or any other celebration to be grand (though money is not a problem), then for sure we are going to follow his orders. Now, the question will arise -- Was Syedna guiding us to the right path or the way he wanted and if syedna burahanudding was guiding us on the right path so will you go against the next dai?
Also, I belive if one attending these celebrations and waiz cannot be sure of Jannat directly so that means if you do not attend these functions there is no harm to you.

Bro who2trust,

its very simple in Islam that whatever the present Haq na saheb says follow, if the next person says not to celebrate we will not. Whatever the way its, it is and will be the right path based on sharia Mohammadi(saw)

I can not comment on attending majlises, because for jannat it is a complete package you need to take walayat plus farizat amal plus amal saleha. and going to majlis is amal saleha which alone can not gurantee jannat

[Smart]

@aqs,
Is the Islam according to you a personality based religion, depending on the person at that point of time or is it a principles based religion based on the principles as expounded in the quran?

[Hades]

so my understanding says if next dai or say if Imam appears (as we belive that Imam will be back on earth)

Who is this " WE " ?? Wahabbis ??

The Imam is already on earth according to the Dawoodi Bohras... So how can he be back ON earth ?? Also from where ??

[who2trust]

Who is this " WE " ?? Wahabbis ??

The Imam is already on earth according to the Dawoodi Bohras... So how can he be back ON earth ?? Also from where ??

At least wahabbis are not hypocrite like you

[ANA BOHRI]

I am a Dawoodi Bohra and not a bohra youth but still I didn't attend any of the functions, not even yesterday's mass celebration because I feel its real waste of time and money. I would sit at home and celebrate it rather than going to markaz/Mosque to celebrate a birthday .which in my view is made solely for pray.

ok for that reason u can justify missin the procession n all..but waaz????

Brother sam

Honestly speaking I have stopped attending all the vaaez other than 10th of Moharram Vaaz.I hardly follow any thing they speak. I would rather sit on net and gain knowledge of Islam and understand the meaning of Quran than wasting 3 hours attending a vaaez where they keep on repeating the same thing which we know since our childhood.

[aqs]

Ana Bohri,

Give Sabaks a try, especially the ones after Daim awwal. Go with a open mind, ask question relevant to topic and see the change between surfing Islam on net and having sabak from a amil

[guy_sam2005]

ok for that reason u can justify missin the procession n all..but waaz????

Brother sam

Honestly speaking I have stopped attending all the vaaez other than 10th of Moharram Vaaz.I hardly follow any thing they speak. I would rather sit on net and gain knowledge of Islam and understand the meaning of Quran than wasting 3 hours attending a vaaez where they keep on repeating the same thing which we know since our childhood.

sis ana,
even the quran is same as it was centuries old..or has any new chapters been added without my knowing.............

[Hades]

Brother sam

Honestly speaking I have stopped attending all the vaaez other than 10th of Moharram Vaaz.I hardly follow any thing they speak. I would rather sit on net and gain knowledge of Islam and understand the meaning of Quran than wasting 3 hours attending a vaaez where they keep on repeating the same thing which we know since our childhood.

sis ana,
even the quran is same as it was centuries old..or has any new chapters been added without my knowing.............

LOL !!

[anajmi]

Quran is the word of God and Vaez is the word of a bunch of corrupt Amils and their Dai. Go Figure!! The Abdes are still in the First Grade. Cause any repetition for these morons is the same as any other repetition. LOL HA HA HA.

[ANA BOHRI]

Ana Bohri,

Give Sabaks a try, especially the ones after Daim awwal. Go with a open mind, ask question relevant to topic and see the change between surfing Islam on net and having sabak from a amil

Are you sure? My cousins attend this so called SABAK and I know what kind of answer they get when they ask questions there…most of the answer is "its baatin" and by the way would they mind attending sabak by a person who does not spot beard ....be honest in your reply....

[Hades]

Quran is the word of God and Vaez is the word of a bunch of corrupt Amils and their Dai. Go Figure!! The Abdes are still in the First Grade. Cause any repetition for these morons is the same as any other repetition. LOL HA HA HA.

Can you please provide evidence of this " God " you talking about ??

And on a much more serious note why do you label others as " Morons " ?? Is this what you have learned from " Koran the word of God " ??

[ghulam muhammed]

A lot of emphasis is now given on sabaks by the current band of abde bohras on this forum. Now the question is what is the divine knowledge that one gets in sabaks ?

1) Recently a lot of sabaks are being held by many amils especially in Ramzan in every building in Mumbai and other big towns and cities in Bohra localities/mohallas. The crux of every sabak is only the emphasis on the current dai wherein every bohra is made to believe that he/she can atttain salvation and jannat only with the blessings of dai ( The Prophet (s.a.w.) doesnt fit in anywhere) and for which a very important criteria is "jetlu bane itlu vadhare aapo" (money.money,money).

2) There are other sabaks which are conducted by the higher ups of kothar where the invitation is for a selected few. A friend of mine in chennai used to attend such sabaks which was conducted by Kher bhaisaab. And guess what divine knowledge he used to impart.... "Adam nabi naakhun na kapda pehnta tha" and this subject used to take 2/3 days to complete.

3) In dubai, many days were wasted only on teaching "duniya kem bani, pehla ek tipo padho pachi zameen maa ek khaado
thayo, aae tipo ek golo bano etc etc", could anyone figure out what he meant to say ? In short these sabaks were more like watching National Geographic or Discovery Channel on TV.

4) After passing thru these maddening tests the bohra then gets 'azim sharaf' of attending "Haqeeqat nu bayan". This is an exclusive brainwashing session reserved only for the totally gone cases who would even believe that the sun is square if it is told by the sabak master. Hence there is absolutely no scope of anyone questioning anything that is dished out to them. This "Haqeqat nu bayan" is normally done by mola which again becomes a command which can never ever be questioned by the totally brainwashed abdes even in their wildest of dreams. The bohras are told that at the end of this sabak that they will be enlightened with the divine knowledge of Imam-uz-zaman and his whereabouts. This sabak is more gripping then any Steven Speilberg thriller and the edge of the seat suspense beats even an Alfred Hitchcock movie. Guess what is the divine knowledge of Imam-uz-zaman.......... Mola claims that "Hu khud Imam-uz-zaman chhu". Here ends the complete training and brainwashing session as from here now comes out an abde who can never imagine life, jannat or even Allah in the absence of his master, the dai. Now for him dai is everything, he is Allah (Nauzubillah).

Now the abdes will load their guns and come out with full ammo to counter the above and rubbish these claims because they know that there is no official record of these sabaks available anywhere on this planet and hence they think that they can succeed in rubbishing these claims. Ironically it is a fact that neither me nor anyone on this forum can produce any documentary evidence to substantiate our claims because a pre condition of attending "Haqeeqat nu bayan" is that anyone who attends this sabak is strictly told not to disclose even a word of what is said and for which they have to give an oath and take Quran na kasam, Nabi (s.a.w.) na kasam, Panjatan na kasam, dai na kasam. Hence the poor abde is so scared that he will never disclose a word of what is told in sabaks even to his own wife. But as we all know that Allah has his ways and by which there are some people who over a passage of time become disgruntled and at times in a fit of rage spill the beans. This haqeeqat version was told by one such person. It is now left for people whether to believe it or ignore it but believe me its a fact and not any made up story which the abdes on this forum will now claim it to be.

[Al Zulfiqar]

bro GM,

you need not fear any fanatics asking you for proof. in order to do that, they would have to disprove you first.

those who live by secrecy and propagate subterfuge, are often the victims of their own game, as then they cannot counter the insidious talks of what they are accused of doing behind closed doors...

as ali has been quoted as saying: you will die the way you lived.

for someone who has wilfully decided to accept slavery and subservience in his lifetime, his death will further emphasise it. the fool who accepts and believes that heaven is his, based on a ruku chithhi written by the corrupt agent of an even more corrupt leader, who goes out to mercilessly hunt and kill innocent wild animals for his pleasure of sport, must be a fool who deserves to be an abused slave.

[ozmujaheed]

GM well done excellent insight I personally went for 2 initial sessions sometime back and gave up...

I remember I asked a question " of how the kitabs discuss beginning of this planet and its life in response to so much scientific and astronomical research...bla bla and I got a blank stare, a laughter from the crowd " bhai a kewo sawal che tamne koi zehen ma shak che sharmajo nei" and then a frown to stay on the topic.. which by the way was kya halat ane wakata ma mardo ane bairo ne wuzoo ni halat karwoo joye and note the women and some abdes were quite excited with their own questions such as ghusul, tayamoon, napak pani, chakri ke champal.... and note we leave in a western society with piped pristine water, tiled bathrooms and at the end there was compliments like aa Saheb ne bow intelligence che aaj kale Jamai ma Deen and Dunia ma experts and bhanela hoi che ..wa wah.

After the sabak I insisted when I can get my answer and the response was I have to start the basic sabaks and when I reach the appropriate level my curiosity will automatically be answered ...no short cuts after that day I research on my own.

[Safiuddin]

Ozmujaheed this means they won't EVER discuss that.
Because they have no answers for questions that pertain to science, evolution, development of prehistoric man, intelligence ,etc
These sabaks are meant only to use as a control over these people so that they never ask questions, they just obey. That way TUS and The TUS alikes will have sway over Bohris.

Only if you tow their line: have an envelope in your hand, acknowledge them as masters, and then treat them that way - only then will they deign to even look in your direction,
much less answer honest questions.
I have a question: Google translates Milaad e Maimoon, from English to Arabic, as "An Auspicious Rebirth". Rebirth of what? More auspicious that the birthday of The Prophet Muhammad? Or does this mean that since Bhagwaan is raised from the ground and into the air way above the dirty street, he's now he's reborn in some way? This is beginning to sound like a
familiar theme.

Can someone shed any light on this? Depending on how you write it in Google, it also shows up as "Birth of A Memon", Birth of Maimonides, and so on. .. ... .. . .

[porus]

I have a question: Google translates Milaad e Maimoon, from English to Arabic, as "An Auspicious Rebirth".

Both the transliteration and the translation are incorrect. 'Milad e Maymoon' translates to 'Auspicious birthday' or 'Salgirah Mubarak'.

The word 'maymoon' is a noun derived from the root ya, meem, nun. It has a sense of right or blessed. In surat al-balad there is an ayat which states "ulaaika ashaabul maymanaa' (90:18). Translation: Those are the people blessed.

This is the same word used in a different grammatical case.

In ordinary Arabic the direction right is also called al-yameen.

Thus Maymoon means Mubarak or Blessed.

[webdevabs]

Saifuddin - For all the incorrect translations, please contact Google. Thank You.