Abdes - what happens in a Bohri Mosque these days?

[zak]

>>>>Judging by the pictures in Malumaat. Mumineen.org and other such sites, all that ever happens in bohri mosques these days is kadambosis, salaam, wadhawa and adulation of the Sultan and his children. How elaborate are the decorations put up by the abdes. This is all very cute - decorations in the form of candies, cakes being cut, etc. The security guard in his red regalia is especially endearing, sooooo sweeeet! So much more fun than the austere functions in other muslim mosques!

But is there any praying going on during these meetings?<<<<<

I have copy/pasted ORIGNAL post above .

i wanna just know if this is true based on FACTS . when i read the reply and comments I asked myself : if there are pictures of mortal in a mosque , then is that shirk in one form ?

[zak]

i have never been to a boha mosque. i am just commenting on discussions above about what happens in a bohri mosque.scroll up and read . are all those comments incorrect. thanks .

then dont trust every thing written on this forum most are just envy from bohras because they have been kicked out of our community,and all bull sh**t comes out of them just coz of jeolousy.

you are one angry brother , Bohra ......!!!!!!!! please refrain from name calling .
Lets deal with facts first. Either there are pictures of mortals in a mosque which is a holy place and where muslims pray to none other than Allah Almighty OR there arent such pictures.
Secondly if there are pictures , isnt that a form of shirk in islam?
thirdly if it is shirk , then are Bohras muslims or not.

Please discuss with logic and reason , intelligently . Leave emotions out . Please brother .

[jungle999]

incredible wrote

show me any single photograph of any individual in bohra mosque. let me say this that when i go to markaza there is mula photo on the wall and people are praying right in front of the picture incredible what lame excuse about then dont trust every thing written on this forum most are just envy from bohras because they have been kicked out of our community,and all bull sh**t comes out of them just coz of jeolousy.

[zak]

incredible wrote

show me any single photograph of any individual in bohra mosque. let me say this that when i go to markaza there is mula photo on the wall and people are praying right in front of the picture incredible what lame excuse about then dont trust every thing written on this forum most are just envy from bohras because they have been kicked out of our community,and all bull sh**t comes out of them just coz of jeolousy.

Re: Abdes - what happens in a Bohri Mosque these days?
by zak on Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:20 am

incredible wrote:
zak wrote:
i have never been to a bohra mosque. i am just commenting on discussions above about what happens in a bohri mosque.scroll up and read . are all those comments incorrect. thanks .
then dont trust every thing written on this forum most are just envy from bohras because they have been kicked out of our community,and all bull sh**t comes out of them just coz of jeolousy.

you are one angry brother , Bohra ......!!!!!!!! please refrain from name calling .
Lets deal with facts first. Either there are pictures of mortals in a mosque which is a holy place and where muslims pray to none other than Allah Almighty OR there arent such pictures.
Secondly if there are pictures , isnt that a form of shirk in islam?
thirdly if it is shirk , then are Bohras muslims or not.
Please discuss with logic and reason , intelligently . Leave emotions out . Please brother [/u
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[SBM]

Incredible
they have been kicked out of our community,and all bull sh**t comes out of them just coz of jeolousy.

Again you are so incredibly wrong, Not all on this forum have been kicked out. Majority of people on this forum are still part of the E Jamaat members, they (including me) follow what is right.

[zak]

>>>>> I AM TRYING AGAIN<<<<<
===========================

Lets deal with facts first.Lets not get sidetracked by your infighting PLEASE

1] Either there are pictures of mortals in a mosque which is a holy place and where muslims pray to none other than Allah Almighty OR there arent such pictures.

2] if there are pictures in mosque or pictures are being prayed to , isnt that a form of shirk in islam?

3] if it is shirk , then are Bohras muslims or not

Please discuss with logic and reason , intelligently . Leave emotions out .Thank you brother

[SBM]

^
Zak
No disrespect to you and your freedom of speech. The above points you are asking are the reasons that progressives are arguing, If you take time to go thru this forum, these has been discussed and been posted by Progressive Bohras, I do not know what are your intentions. Are you trying to link Dawoodi Bohra with Ahmadiyas.
If you are concerned, can you please tell us what school of thought do you follow and can you tell us why so called Moulanas and other leaders of Islamic Faith have not taken any action about above mentioned points. Since most of Islamic leaders are co hots with Kothar and they themselves are corrupt, nothing will change unless you help in this regard by talking to your Imam in the Masjid where ever you do Salats.

[zak]

^
Zak
No disrespect to you and your freedom of speech. The above points you are asking are the reasons that progressives are arguing, If you take time to go thru this forum, these has been discussed and been posted by Progressive Bohras, I do not know what are your intentions. Are you trying to link Dawoodi Bohra with Ahmadiyas.
If you are concerned, can you please tell us what school of thought do you follow and can you tell us why so called Moulanas and other leaders of Islamic Faith have not taken any action about above mentioned points. Since most of Islamic leaders are co hots with Kothar and they themselves are corrupt, nothing will change unless you help in this regard by talking to your Imam in the Masjid where ever you do Salats.

No disrespect intended or taken .
Can we deal with that facts of point # 1
Are there pictures in mosques wher muslims pray to Allah Almighty?

[SBM]

^
Zak
No there supposed to be no pictures in the Masjid where people face Kaaba. Now if the picture is in the back, I do not understand what will be the big deal as long as people facing Kaaba do not see a picture or a mirror.
Well I have not visited a Bohra Masjid so I can not be sure if there are pictures but in Markaz they do have Syedna's picture but usually it is not placed in front of people facing Kaaba.

[ghulam muhammed]

I havent been to a bohra masjid since almost 2 decades but prior to that I have seen pictures of the 51st and 52nd dai in Mumbai's Saifee Masjid, Hussaini Masjid and Qutbi Masjid for sure.

[zak]

I havent been to a bohra masjid since almost 2 decades but prior to that I have seen pictures of the 51st and 52nd dai in Mumbai's Saifee Masjid, Hussaini Masjid and Qutbi Masjid for sure.

so 2 decades ago there were pictures of mortal humans on wall in prayer halls , masjids where muslims pray to the one and almighy allah . whats the situation today ? are bohras still bowing to pictures of whoever the leader is ? i am asking to learn

[mumin]

bohris consider themselves muslims. try to go and pray in a bohri mosque and you will find out. first of all you would not be allowed to pray. the reason is simple. the clergy does not want to expose their dictatorial tight fist ruling of this small community to the world.

[zak]

bohris consider themselves muslims. try to go and pray in a bohri mosque and you will find out. first of all you would not be allowed to pray. the reason is simple. the clergy does not want to expose their dictatorial tight fist ruling of this small community to the world.

so if another non-dawoodi bohra or , an ismaili , or shia or sunni went to bohri mosque to offer a prayer to Allah Almighty , they would not be allowed entry into a house of prayer for Allah ?
is that the rules? are you serious or joking ?

[mumin]

ball is in your court.put it to the test.

[zak]

ball is in your court.put it to the test.

are you serious or joking?
also are regular dawoodis and progressives in same mosque or different mosques.
are progressive/reformist allowed to pray to Allah in regular dawoodi community mosque?

[Conscíous]

zak

so if another non-dawoodi bohra or , an ismaili , or shia or sunni went to bohri mosque to offer a prayer to Allah Almighty , they would not be allowed entry into a house of prayer for Allah ? It depends which part of the world the Mosque is.. In Asia, the abde's are so arrogant & aggressive.. They will throw you out personally.. In Africa, the watchman/security grade will stop you at the gates.. In Europe.. No one is going to stop you or say a word.. because the abde's know.. those stranger who come to pray for the first time in a Bohra mosque, never return back..

[zak]

isnt the prayer not same for all muslims from the Holy Quran , suras and ayats?
and all are praying to Allah Almighty . Isnt a mosque a mosque for all muslims then ?
Is it social/cultural discrimination or secterian discrimination?
any muslim including a bohra can go to Kabba and pray . so whats the doifference . thank you .

[SBM]

Zak
isnt the prayer not same for all muslims from the Holy Quran , suras and ayats?

I do not think Quran mentions how to pray and yes prayers are not the same for all Muslim, Even among Sunnis, different school of thoughts have different ways of praying,
The Suras, Ayats and number of Fard Prayers are same among all Muslims but Arkaans ( to tie hands how high and whether to raise your hands when going in Ruku or Sujood) may differ.
I think Anjami ,Porus and Aqs may be better suited to answer more in detail.

[Muslim First]

The Prophet's Prayer (saws)

From The beginning To The End As Though You See It

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/prayerprophet.htm

'

[Muslim First]

any muslim including a bohra can go to Kabba and pray . so whats the doifference

Bohras fake prayers behind Imaam of Kaaba Masjid since that Imaam do not have Razza from their leader. Afterwords they gether at predetermined place and pray Namaaz behind one who has Raza.

My Bohra friend visiting my house refuses to pray with me in Jamaat since he cannot oray behind or lead prayers with non Bohra.

[candela]

so 2 decades ago there were pictures of mortal humans on wall in prayer halls , masjids where muslims pray to the one and almighy allah . whats the situation today ? are bohras still bowing to pictures of whoever the leader is ? i am asking to learn

Assalaamu alaikum,

The markaz I go to has a picture of Dr. Burhanuddin directly in front of the Qibla such that the picture is in a direct line of site for only a few male Bohris, but it's on a slanted wall so it probably doesn't seem like explicit shirk to the Bohris in the markaz. I think it obviously should be removed from that wall and at least placed on another wall so it's opposite the Qibla, and in defense of Bohri aqeedah I believe Bohri's are at least theoretically taught that during prayer they aren't supposed to have in sight pictures of anybody, including Dr. Burhanuddin.

[incredible]

so 2 decades ago there were pictures of mortal humans on wall in prayer halls , masjids where muslims pray to the one and almighy allah . whats the situation today ? are bohras still bowing to pictures of whoever the leader is ? i am asking to learn

Assalaamu alaikum,

The markaz I go to has a picture of Dr. Burhanuddin directly in front of the Qibla such that the picture is in a direct line of site for only a few male Bohris, but it's on a slanted wall so it probably doesn't seem like explicit shirk to the Bohris in the markaz. I think it obviously should be removed from that wall and at least placed on another wall so it's opposite the Qibla, and in defense of Bohri aqeedah I believe Bohri's are at least theoretically taught that during prayer they aren't supposed to have in sight pictures of anybody, including Dr. Burhanuddin.

u dont even know difference between markaz and mosque,if u have zero knowledge about stuff better stay away from islamic discussion coz it just confusses others abd creates fitnah with your half knowledge about the matter.

[SBM]

Incredible
You just incredibly or purposely missed the point, regardless of Markaz or Masjid or your house, the picture should not be in the sight of Namazi when doing salat facing Qibla.
You just purposely omitted that section of "Candela"'s point and harped on difference between Markaz and Masjid.
Do not divert the relevant points in his post. You are incredibly ingenious.

[aqs]

Incredible
You just incredibly or purposely missed the point, regardless of Markaz or Masjid or your house, the picture should not be in the sight of Namazi when doing salat facing Qibla.
You just purposely omitted that section of "Candela"'s point and harped on difference between Markaz and Masjid.
Do not divert the relevant points in his post. You are incredibly ingenious.

Br. Oma,

A picture should not be there in front of a salati in home or in Markaz, though in Masjid you will never find one except kept for some function

Now if we consider that in some Markaz it is there so does it make any difference, coz Salat is offered as per the Niyat and how a picture of Syedna in Markaz if not coming in line or where a salati cant see it while offering his/her salat should create problem.

[SBM]

Aqs
That is what exactly I said in some other thread, as long as picture does not come in front of people offering Salat, I have no problem. I further clarified since I have not been to any Bohra Masjid lately, I could not comment about the pictures in Masjid.
So I do stand corrected.

[zak]

Aqs
That is what exactly I said in some other thread, as long as picture does not come in front of people offering Salat, I have no problem. I further clarified since I have not been to any Bohra Masjid lately, I could not comment about the pictures in Masjid.
So I do stand corrected.

SO THEN THERE ARE PICTURES OF mortals IN MASJID OF THE BOHRA FAITH but PICTURES ARE NOT PRAYED TOO..CORRECT ...
THIS IS STILL 'UNISLAMIC' AND CAN BE CONSIDERED 'SHIRK' OR SIMILAR HEHAVIOUR TO SAY THE LEAST ..

are bohras reallt a muslim sect or just a cult ? witha charismatic leader who controls them ?

[aqs]

Aqs
That is what exactly I said in some other thread, as long as picture does not come in front of people offering Salat, I have no problem. I further clarified since I have not been to any Bohra Masjid lately, I could not comment about the pictures in Masjid.
So I do stand corrected.

SO THEN THERE ARE PICTURES OF mortals IN MASJID OF THE BOHRA FAITH but PICTURES ARE NOT PRAYED TOO..CORRECT ...
THIS IS STILL 'UNISLAMIC' AND CAN BE CONSIDERED 'SHIRK' OR SIMILAR HEHAVIOUR TO SAY THE LEAST ..

are bohras reallt a muslim sect or just a cult ? witha charismatic leader who controls them ?

Zak,

due to selective reading you missed my following point

though in Masjid you will never find one except kept for some function

and please if you dont have any thing substantial to put as an argument i will desist from replying, you can got through the archives of this Forum and get answers to your queries.

[Muslim First]

Br aqs

Do you consider 'shehan' [courtyard] part of masjid?

I recently saw one picture of Maulana on right hand rear portal. It is there since Waquf of this Masjid.

[aqs]

Br aqs

Do you consider 'shehan' [courtyard] part of masjid?

I recently saw one picture of Maulana on right hand rear portal. It is there since Waquf of this Masjid.

Br. MF

IF Sehan is not in waqf area then i dont think their should be any problem.

[Muslim First]

Br aqs

I fail to understand how part of building can be waquf and part not. May be waquf has different meaning to Bohras.

In India or Pak or USA you will not find any pictures in Masjid.

Masjid is whole structure which includes covered prayer space, open or closed courtyad, classrooms and supporting facilities.

Wasalaam