Why are you trying to reform us?

[profastian]

The question is why are the progressives trying to reform the Bohra 'cult'?
As this cult is based upon the personality of Syedna Burhanuddin and you guys seem to find a million faults with him. So why try reforms.
Why not create your own brand of religion or a new sect.
Normally people try to reform a system, when it is hard to leave the system.
But here it is quite easy to leave the Bohra cult. Nobody is stopping you. You could assimilate yourselves in any one of the other sects which you seem to prefer.
You would be welcomed with open arms.
So why introduce reforms (When their is no chance of you changing anything other than convincing a bunch of brain dead people in joining you).
What is your hidden agenda?

[ghulam muhammed]

As this cult is based upon the personality of Syedna Burhanuddin and you guys seem to find a million faults with him. So why try reforms.

It is like saying that if gujrat is ruled by the butcher of muslims (your master's friend) then why stay in gujarat and raise a voice against modi's evil ways.

But here it is quite easy to leave the Bohra cult. Nobody is stopping you. You could assimilate yourselves in any one of the other sects which you seem to prefer.

It is easy to leave gujarat which is under modi's rule or leave mumbai which is under thackerey's goondaism, nobody is stopping you then why stay in gujarat, why not shift the jamea to cairo and why not stop the zikra in surat ?

Normally people try to reform a system, when it is hard to leave the system.

Atleast the reformist are trying to reform the system unlike your master who is colluding with the biggest enemy of Islam. If he cant perform the basic duty of a dai which is to invite people to faith then atleast he should stop associating himself with people who are out to destroy the ummah.

their is no chance of you changing anything other than convincing a bunch of brain dead people in joining you).

you have rightly identified yourself.

[Smart]

@Profastian,
If you think the reformists are doing a useless job, a worthless enterprise, then why bother spending time and energy posting on this site?

Would it not be more beneficial to you (according to your beliefs ) to do some foot kissing, some chest beating and some hagiographic singing for the long life of your extortionist in your own so called masjids, where the pictures of a human are put up for salaams? I am sure you think that the path to jannat lies there, not here.

Just leave us to do this useless job. Or is it fear of the truth that brings you here to counter it?

[profastian]

@Profastian,
If you think the reformists are doing a useless job, a worthless enterprise, then why bother spending time and energy posting on this site?

Would it not be more beneficial to you (according to your beliefs ) to do some foot kissing, some chest beating and some hagiographic singing for the long life of your extortionist in your own so called masjids, where the pictures of a human are put up for salaams? I am sure you think that the path to jannat lies there, not here.

Just leave us to do this useless job. Or is it fear of the truth that brings you here to counter it?

Well i am not here to counter anything. Just for time pass when nothing to do at office.

[aziz]

they are afraid because if they die and are refused burial in a bohra cemetery they fear they will go to hell ,so the reform agenda comes ,in the grave they will answer that they always claimed to be bohras but were reformists and did not believe in the dai tus who gives identity to bohras,you are not a bohra because you are born in a born in a bohra house but you become a bohra if moula tus agrees to have you in his fold
the reformists know very well where they stand on this matter

about modi there is no comparison he is a political leader and not a religious one so he is not expected to have any set of ideals
even rasullah sa dealt with such leaders in mecca people like abu sufyan who were enemies of islam at that time and rasullah also dealt and sat with other enemies of islam also some of them including the three were related to him .so what ? the reformists always are using modi to justify whatever

[Smart]

Well i am not here to counter anything. Just for time pass when nothing to do at office.

Thanks for accepting that you are a nikamma. Others like me are not. We come here with clarity of why we come here. It is to stop the youngsters from being exploited.

@aziz,
Allah has made the whole of earth and is equally accessible from everywhere. What is so special about the Bohra qabrastan? Just because you are deluded, by your masters, does not mean everybody is. For your information, none of the Panjatan pak are buried in a Bohra controlled qabrastan, or for that matter any of the Imams. It is not where you are buried, but what deeds you have done in your life, that will be the decisive factor with Allah on the day of Qayamat. No where in any religion is foot kissing mentioned as a good deed, that will take you to heaven.

[MuffadalMK]

All of u think that u know enough about ISLAM but what u or we Know is not enough to justify what ever u follow or we follow Saidna T.U.S is DAI and a DAI knows batter thn we all know haven't u guys heard about his Mojezaat don't u think no body on earth can do wht he dose, Mullas and their Chamchas do all wrong and u guys Blame the MASTER ..and u all know very well that dis obeying or hurting the DAI is a biggest sine on earth thn why u do ths all.

[profastian]

Well i am not here to counter anything. Just for time pass when nothing to do at office.

Thanks for accepting that you are a nikamma. Others like me are not. We come here with clarity of why we come here. It is to stop the youngsters from being exploited.

@aziz,
Allah has made the whole of earth and is equally accessible from everywhere. What is so special about the Bohra qabrastan? Just because you are deluded, by your masters, does not mean everybody is. For your information, none of the Panjatan pak are buried in a Bohra controlled qabrastan, or for that matter any of the Imams. It is not where you are buried, but what deeds you have done in your life, that will be the decisive factor with Allah on the day of Qayamat. No where in any religion is foot kissing mentioned as a good deed, that will take you to heaven.

Well you are right. Nothing special about being buried in the Bohra Qabrastan. Only deeds matter.
Foot kissing is not mentioned but Walayat(love) and Ata-at(obedience) are surely mentioned. Foot kissing is one of the ways to display these.
Btw I spend only a few minutes on this forum. How much time must you be having as you spend hours here (judging by the number of threads in which you butt in). Well if I am a nikamma then that makes you a ...?

[aziz]

According to smart allah has made earth vast and whatever,so why waste time trying to reform us(according to progs) patethic bohras,why dont you use the vastness of earth to form your own version of islam which would be perfect,
the answer is very simple this is not about refrom at all but adawat of dai zaman ,you progs were simply born to do adawat and nothing i repeat nothing will change that,no matter what moula tus does you will criticise and refuse to obey,
the fact that you were born in bohras household does not mean anything,if indeed your parents were orthos they must be regreting giving birth to dawat na dushmanos and having children like you,
the fact that you are educated or rich as progs claim does not mean much in the grave ,there only religion without which even deeds do not matter,

like i said its not about reform it never was ,this progs are dushman of dawat today,before and always

[ghulam muhammed]

the answer is very simple this is not about refrom at all but adawat of dai zaman ,you progs were simply born to do adawat and nothing

Kothar's stereotyped version nailed deeply in the heads of bohras with regard to the reform movement so that bohras stay away from it.

[aziz]

like i said its all about adwat and dushmani,you have been born to to do that just like shimr was born to do qatl of imam hussein sa,had you progs been born 1400 yrs ago you would definately been part of yazids army in kerbala,
you can call this streotype or whatever but the truth hurts and its true

[aziz]

this website should be renamed as either
1) enemies of dawoodi bohras
2) haters of dawoodi bohras
3) insaaf chonicles
4) wahabbi chronicles
this names would fit right in with the current progs and their best supporters the wahabbis

[zak]

this website should be renamed as either
1) enemies of dawoodi bohras
2) haters of dawoodi bohras
3) insaaf chonicles
4) wahabbi chronicles
this names would fit right in with the current progs and their best supporters the wahabbis

DO the progressive / reformists bohra have their own Dai ?

[trvoice]

this website should be renamed as either
1) enemies of dawoodi bohras
2) haters of dawoodi bohras
3) insaaf chonicles
4) wahabbi chronicles
this names would fit right in with the current progs and their best supporters the wahabbis

DO the progressive / reformists bohra have their own Dai ?

"Dummy say WHAT" I dont think progs have answer to your last question. Personally they are the most confused and highly consumed by hatred group of ppl. Just like we have hard core retarded conservatives in US (Red Necks).

[Smart]

According to smart allah has made earth vast and whatever,so why waste time trying to reform us(according to progs) patethic bohras,why dont you use the vastness of earth to form your own version of islam which would be perfect,
the answer is very simple this is not about refrom at all but adawat of dai zaman ,you progs were simply born to do adawat and nothing i repeat nothing will change that,no matter what moula tus does you will criticise and refuse to obey,
the fact that you were born in bohras household does not mean anything,if indeed your parents were orthos they must be regreting giving birth to dawat na dushmanos and having children like you,
the fact that you are educated or rich as progs claim does not mean much in the grave ,there only religion without which even deeds do not matter,

like i said its not about reform it never was ,this progs are dushman of dawat today,before and always

Let me clarify your thought process. You mean to say that Allah gave us birth and life for adawat of the dai? Does that mean that by giving birth to progressives for adavat, Allah must have a purpose? I am sure you will agree that Allah is more knowledgeable and powerful. Doesn't your logic lead you to a conclusion, that is either something wrong with your logic or wrong with the dai's establishment?

Please let us all know, how the next step in your logic works. Calling me names won't work.

[profastian]

According to smart allah has made earth vast and whatever,so why waste time trying to reform us(according to progs) patethic bohras,why dont you use the vastness of earth to form your own version of islam which would be perfect,
the answer is very simple this is not about refrom at all but adawat of dai zaman ,you progs were simply born to do adawat and nothing i repeat nothing will change that,no matter what moula tus does you will criticise and refuse to obey,
the fact that you were born in bohras household does not mean anything,if indeed your parents were orthos they must be regreting giving birth to dawat na dushmanos and having children like you,
the fact that you are educated or rich as progs claim does not mean much in the grave ,there only religion without which even deeds do not matter,

like i said its not about reform it never was ,this progs are dushman of dawat today,before and always

Let me clarify your thought process. You mean to say that Allah gave us birth and life for adawat of the dai? Does that mean that by giving birth to progressives for adavat, Allah must have a purpose? I am sure you will agree that Allah is more knowledgeable and powerful. Doesn't your logic lead you to a conclusion, that is either something wrong with your logic or wrong with the dai's establishment?

Please let us all know, how the next step in your logic works. Calling me names won't work.

Yes the purpose is Adal(balance)....ying and yang, day and night, matter and antimatter...

[Humsafar]

Yes the purpose is Adal(balance)....ying and yang, day and night, matter and antimatter...

Right. So reformists are yin to Kothar's yang, then? Allah made us reformists (seekers of justice) to challenge the injustice and illegitimacy of the Kothar. If you call us names and condemn us you are in effect calling Allah names and condemning his will. You are committing sin.

[profastian]

Yes the purpose is Adal(balance)....ying and yang, day and night, matter and antimatter...

Right. So reformists are yin to Kothar's yang, then? Allah made us reformists (seekers of justice) to challenge the injustice and illegitimacy of the Kothar. If you call us names and condemn us you are in effect calling Allah names and condemning his will. You are committing sin.

And when it is said to them, create not disorder on the earth, they say, 'we are but reformats'.(Surah Number 2: Al-Baqarah, Verse: 11)

[Humsafar]

Profastian, for your info Islam itself was a reform movement in its own right. Throwing a Quranic verse with the word "reformist" in it doesn't mean anything. The verse refers to religion and faith, and please understand that reformists' demands have nothing to do with religion.

[Jamali]

Asalam Alaikum Brothers and Sisters,

This is my first posting although I have been visiting this Forum regularly and interestingly reading the comments made by "both sides".

A little about myself...I myself hail from East Africa being born and brought up there. I was fortunately / unfortunately born a reformist. My parents and their families were staunch supporters of the community back in the early 70's regularly visiting the mosques and participating in regular activities. However we were a poor family and there was an instance where my late grandfather could not pay the dues to the Jammat. Because of this we were ostracized and not allowed to further participate. My grandfather accepted this and opted then to stay away as he felt religion and faith is not conditional to payment of "dues" or "fees". This was taken as provocation by the local Jammat and the leaders of those time felt surprised that my family didnt go and beg them to be let in and rather opted to stay away. To add further insult, upon the death of my grandfather, we were not allowed to bury him in the Bohra cemetery and the so called Amils, Sheikhs and Chamchas actually gathered around the gates to block the burial and distributed "Sharbat" in celebration of my grandfathers death. Well it took Local Political intervention to get him to be buried but my father and his family then vowed never to be part of a community whose members not only mocked a death of a person but indulged in practices which were not only totally un islamic but even going against basic humanity. These practices have been witnessed by many and still go on till date but sadly to the eyes of "mumineen" it is an acceptable practice. They have never experienced the pain and suffering one undergoes when a loved one passes away and he is not allowed to fulfil the basic human duty of a decent burial next to his or her loved ones.

Anyways this was a history of how brutal an inhumane Bohora persons in authority can be. As i grew up i got a chance to interact with fellow Bohoras in the Community and i perceived mixed emotions from within the community. There were some who were staut "fanatics" who refused to interact with me in school but always used to come to me when they needed help. There were those who refused my help because of my religious choice. The biggest dilemma was now understanding whether is Bohoriaism islamic? I mean dont we all believe in Allah (s.a.w) which should be the primary goal and objective and if we all practice Islam which preaches love and Peace and Unity and then where in Islam is ostracization / ex-communication proclaimed if we all follow the primary objective and just differ in performing 'rituals' or bowing down to Seyedna. I was once asked to step out of a Bohora shop belonging to a fanatic who ironically was a former classmate and i had actually helped him in studies and i thought to myself...how ironical...He is willing to serve a man from another religion or an atheist who doesnt even know who Moula is and who probably wouldnt care a damn or someone who is a pork eater and a hater of "muslims" but he asked me to step out: ) I found that utterly stupid. Another thing I find weird is that contrary to the bohoras thinking, many reformists arent against Sayedna or Moula. Many accept him as a religious Leader. The discontention arises to the fact that his delegated persons in authority are doing wrong in the name of the community and he is letting it be. Based on the accounts of other reformists who themselves have experienced Un-Islamic practices in the presence of the Sayedna and i quote "Ali Asger Engineer" who himself mentioned how his father took him to see the Sayedna and in the room he was made to bow down to him and do the Sajda. Dont we all agree to the fact of "Shirk" and how it relates to procrastinating to a human as if to proclaim him as God. Children of the momineen carry his pictures to school pray to him to make them pass, their women seek his blessings before they do anything...Is this Islamic i ask? If he can heal your illness and problems then why do we Need Almighty Allah? The truth of the matter is that most of his life he himself has dedicated his life to reading and praying the Quran and following the teachings of Islam so instead of emulating this practice why are the momineen taking him to be God? The missauga Amil who was deported was reported to compare him to a Prophet? I mean is this right when we all know the last Prophet was Muhammed as proclaimed by Almighty Allah and then u say such things????Are we practicing Islam or a new religion?????

Anyways there are 'momineen' who know things are going wrong but still opt to stay because of family issues and fear of ostracization / excommunication. To all the "fanatics" I truly ask...going deep down in your heart...Arent there certain things going wrong? Ofcourse the answer will be a negative but i am sure deep deep down they know the truth!!!

Anyways my life experiences have taught me that first and foremost We are all Muslims. I believe in Allah and Prophet Muhammed as his last and final messenger and they were the ones who blessed us with a divine book called the Holy Quran and instructed us to follow it in order to become good human beings and live a life of purpose. That should be our goal.

With regard to the reformists: We should continue our ways of serving the Almighty Allah and try and show to the momineen that when Almightly Allah gave us a brain to think apart from all his other creations in this world, We should be able to make judge what is right and wrong and be able to act accordingly. Its an individuals choice to decide what is right or wrong but when making the decision remember u have been given the power to evaluate what is at hand and then decide. If you decide to follow otherwise, it would be "your" decision and should not be influenced by someone else. In this context....NOONE will take your hand or lead you to Jannat..Your 'deeds' and 'Amal' will take you there and those deeds include what you follow or practice in this life and whether this is right or wrong. Also every human being is responsible for his or her deeds. In the case of Moula, His own personal practices like following the five pillars of Islam may lead him to Jannat but dont expect that you who drinks in the Bar every Friday or molests his wife or curses someone every now and then but wearing a Topi or Rida and attending his 'Viaz' will also be a straight ticket to Heaven. Remember a Thief is a Thief but an accomplice to the thief doesnt make you lesser of a thief. So THINK and USE YOUR THOUGHT PROCESSES for a moment.

A word of advise to the reformists: We also spend much time trying to convince or talk about the 'Momimeen'. That is ok but refrain from abusing someone or blaming someone. We dont have a right to be judgemental about SAyedna or Moulana. Yes according to the thought processes we may assume wrong things about him and his followers but let ALLAH decide his Fate. Lets hope that each and everyone of us be given the rehmat to utilise our thought processes accordingly and act in the ways of Almighty Allah want

[truebohra]

[quote ]Let me clarify your thought process. You mean to say that Allah gave us birth and life for adawat of the dai? Does that mean that by giving birth to progressives for adavat, Allah must have a purpose? I am sure you will agree that Allah is more knowledgeable and powerful. Doesn't your logic lead you to a conclusion, that is either something wrong with your logic or wrong with the dai's establishment?
Please let us all know, how the next step in your logic works. Calling me names won't work.[/quote]

Let me analyze your though process Mr Smart..
1) Allah created iblis. He revolted against Adam A.S. So allah created iblis to counter Adam A.S??
2) Allah created Abu Sufyan. He revolted against Mohammed (SAW). So allah created Sufyan to counter Mohammed (SAW)??

As i said earlier Smart you are not as Smart as you think?

Doesn't your logic lead you to a conclusion, that is either something wrong with your logic or wrong with the Allah's Judgement to create iblis, sufyan, etc??????

[Jamali]

Mr True Bohra,

Thank you for your interesting comments. You Yourself have given yourself an answer

Thank you for acknowledging the existence of Almighty Allah (s.a.w). You talk about Prophet Adam and Prophet Muhammad. These were messengers of Allah (s.a.w). What did they PREACH? Wasnt it the existence of Allah,and the most important sentence in their preachings THERE IS NO GOD TO BE WORSHIPPED BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMED IS HIS LAST PROPHET. (I want to highlight this as I want YOU to contemplate your own practices and definitions of "Worship" and being a "Follower" of the Dai in this modern day). Isnt the Dai a descendent of the prophets and Imams families? What is their purpose? I am sure its not to collect money and make their people suffer? Please give me a quote when any of the Prophets have asked people to do "Sajda" to them? The definition of the term "SHIRK" was actually founded on that basis because of Idol worshipping and the fact people knelt down and prostated to Idols and other Humans believing in them helping them with their ills and concerns..What is "URZI's" a term used to ask for divine help from Saifee Mahal? My dear brother if you truly understand what the person you love the most says then you will understand that he himself seeks guidance and prays to Almighty Allah and teaches you to do the same but not to worship him...Dont deny the fact that this does not happen in our community as i wouldnt like you to be called a Liar too.

Secondly I have no doubts about the Almighty Allah and you should be ashamed of even raising such an issue if you truly believe you are a muslim! I will tell you why Iblis and Abu Sufiyan exists. Its simple...So that Almighty Allah can test your ability to use one thing that he has given ONLY US when he created this world - "Thought Processes" To make the right choices - to differentiate what is right or wrong...During the time of the Prophets where people like Abu Sufiyan existed, you agree both sides had its followers...All individuals had a right to decide what is right or wrong...However the choices made determined each and everyone's Amals and deeds. I hope you agree with me on that otherwise....my explanation would be in futility

Tell me which religion / sect thrives on "compulsory Sabeel and Wajebaat". Which religion thrives on Social Boycott? If you read my earlier posts...I dont want to question your faith but the fact of whether you do justice to what u believe in? Do you believe "Maula" is the Introducer of these practices mentioned above or is it the "persons in authority" appointed by him. if the later is the case what justification are you doing to your faith and love for a leader who name continues to be mis-represented within the community by scrupulous Amils and his goons??

[aziz]

Your posts show your ignorance about other religions first christianity worlds largest religion had a policy of excommunication among catholics to anyone who criticised the living pope,and there was no forgiveness and wrong doers were burnt at stakes ,among hindus they have a caste system which is also similar to racism and social boycott,its there in all major religions ,
about money find out how much christians pay to churches every week when they attend or how much hindus pay to temples and priests and then talk about bohras ,
do you dispute that khumus is one fifth of all that you earn and must be paid by all muslims as was the case in rasullahs sa time ,then zakat one fortieth of savings do you pay this and to whom.

as for worship leave your lies behind syedna tus has never anywhere claimed to be god or illah ardh or imam show the proof,he always says of himself as mamloook of ale mohamed and never has he been worshipped ever ,worship is always for allah but vasila of syedna is taken when praying to allah which is not wrong unless you are a sunni who cannot take vasila of three usurpers so do not do so and call it shirk (sour grapes) ,

about the dushmans in time of rasullah sa we had abusufyan abu jahal and the three among others,in their place today we have an engineer a contractor,a insaap among others had this people been alive 1400 ago they would have demanded reforms from rasullahsa and been part of yazids army also in kerbala

[aziz]

It can be see from your thought processes which side you have chosen today ,on one side we have naib of moula ali and dail mutlaq and on other side naib of abu sufyan and iblis ,, the engineer

[Jamali]

Asalam Alaikum Mr. Aziz,

I admire your interesting comments

You have given examples of ex-communication in cases of Catholics in Christianity and Social Boycott in cases of Caste system of Hindus. Agreed but I am confused...you claim to be Muslims and follow Islam but here you are, already admitting to practicing the very acts of the Non-Muslims as you proudly justify the same and relate the same with them.

Next you are justifying the acts of collection of money. yes they do the same but please get your facts right Sir...Go visit a Church or a Temple and understand the meaning of a 'Donation' verses a Compulsory Contribution.

Thirdly Mr. Aziz, I very much understand the concept of Zakat. But isnt Sabeel and Wajebaat in addition to Zakat demanded by your local leaders? How does that relate to Zakat! Also in case you are unaware, get your Islamic facts right... Zakat is a fixed percentage based on one's income and NOT A FIXED AMOUNT!!! where in the word does one fix a Sabeel and Wajebaat and a Zakat which in your words = Zakat!

Mr.Aziz you seem to have more knowledge of SHIRK (or sour grapes):) why dont you define to us the meaning then? Also i didnt know touching ones feet and prostating to a human is considered a "Vasila!" I think muslim scholars need to redefine the whole concept of SHIRK based on your definitions. In that context every Hindu / Idol Worshipper is said to be getting a "Vasila" from their divine ones, right???

Mr.Aziz, you seem to take a Godly existence...You are able to judge people and redefine them:) I have earlier stated in my posts I am not here to judge your faith... That is your "deeds and Amal" and based on that you will be judged by Almighty Allah and ONLY HIM!! Dont try to be him as you are nothing but a piece of dirt in front of a supreme being! In the same way the "Engineer" and the "Contractor" have their own deeds and Amal and will be judged accordingly.

From your posts you have clarified alot about what Bohoraism portrays and again the same i say to you as your other colleagues...Do justice to who you truly love and respect because u all seem to portray "partisian beliefs" based partly of what "suits" you and partly based on "FEAR".

[aziz]

Again you ignorance and hypocracy is showing first you ask about which religions have social boycotts then when given examples you turn around and start complaining that islam should not have this boycotts,
as for wajebaat its a collective term for zakat khumus najwa nazrul makam as

as for shirk what it means that allah cannot have partners and is one ,and to be worshpped alone with no one else.if you worship anybody else along with allah thats shirk,but like i said dawoodi bohras pray to allah and allah only ,do not confuse vasila with shirk or idol worship as hindus do with vasila,we use vasila of our moula,duats,imams and panjatan to reach allah,
since the progs like sunnis have no vasilas cause you hate the dai,you have started calling it shirk.,

[aziz]

As for judging yes the final judging will be done by allah but as you said we have thought processess and somebody abuses our moula tus or dawat ,and you are saying we keep relations with him because allah will punish him on qayamat,thats stupidity you cannot have it both ways thats why we had social boycotts for munafeqins

[guy_sam2005]

Profastian, for your info Islam itself was a reform movement in its own right. Throwing a Quranic verse with the word "reformist" in it doesn't mean anything. The verse refers to religion and faith, and please understand that reformists' demands have nothing to do with religion.

yes right,all they want is share in money....nothin in religion

[porus]

as for shirk what it means that allah cannot have partners and is one ,and to be worshpped alone with no one else.if you worship anybody else along with allah thats shirk,but like i said dawoodi bohras pray to allah and allah only ,do not confuse vasila with shirk or idol worship as hindus do with vasila,we use vasila of our moula,duats,imams and panjatan to reach allah,

In the Islam Today Forum, I asked Muslim First what he thought of ayat 3:169 in which Quran states that martyrs in the cause of Allah, like Imam Husain, are alive and are enjoying Allah's rizq. MF has not replied. Maybe he is waiting for an answer from his Shaikh or, better yet, he is thinking about it for himself. I will wait one more week for his reply.

We need to understand shirk more clearly so we do not get bamboozeled by Wahhabi jaahils like Muslim First's Shaikh. Shirk means associating partner with Allah. What does that mean?

Let us take an example. Allah has many qualities. One is that he created the Universe. Take two galaxies, our own, the Milky Way and our nearest neighbor, the Andromeda. We say Allah created both of them. If someone says "No, Allah only created the Milky Way but Andromeda was created by Uzza, then you would be guilty of shirk. No other entity has that power.

Take another example. Allah is ritually worshipped by Muslims by offering Him Namaaz. You always say "lillahi azza wa jal" in every namaaz. It means "directed to mighty and glorious Allah". If you believe that Uzza also has some qualities which makes him worthy of worship then your niyyat might include words like "li Uzza azza wa jal" meaning "directed to mighty and glorious Uzza." That would be shirk.

Take the example of wasila. Shia believe in ayat 3:169. They also believe that Panjatan's prayers are always accepted and answered by Allah. There are hadiths when Prophet agreed to pray for his followers. Wasila in a prayer is to ask someone whom you believe to be closer to Allah to pray for you. In popular language it may appear that you are asking someone else to give you something while in a state of prayer. If you go to your Muslim teacher he will correct your misconception if you have any. But no Shia Divine will ask you to ask someone directly for anything. He will ask you to ask someone to pray for you.

I hope this is a bit more clear. I will respond to Muslim First's jaahil Shaikh in detail about Shirk and wasila if Muslim First responds to my questions.

[porus]

A bit more on wasila.

Invoking wasila is normally a form of namaaz or dua to seek nearness to Allah through some means which is primarily a prayer to Allah or asking someone to pray to Allah for you. These someone are generally pious people.

One example is the Dua Taqarrub recited with raised hands after every fard. In the begining of the dua, you say “Allahumma inni ataqarrabu ilayka bika” meaning “Allah, I seek nearness to you through you (your wasila). It goes on to say “wa bi mawlana muhammadin nabiiyika” meaning “And through your nabi Muhammad”. This dua starts with wasila of Allah. That would be strange for Wahhabis to understand. Why do you need to invoke wasila of Allah to be near Allah? Because what follows in the dua are wasa’il created by Allah for his worshippers to invoke, such as Nabi, Wasi and Imams.

Another example is the Dua recited after washeq on lailat al-qadr.

Hadhihi as-salaat, fa hadiyya minni ilayk, ya Muhammad
Wa ilayki, Ya Fatima
Taqabbaluha minni
wadaifu li biha al-adaaf al jazila

This prayer is a gift from me to you O, Muhmmad
And to you O, Fatima
Accept it from me
And through it multiply it many-fold.

What can Muhammad and Fatima give you in return for your gift? They can pray for you in return and you expect its effect to multiply because you believe Allah will not turn away their prayers. Final decision to accept rests with Allah alone.

Final example is 2 rakaat namaaz of tawassul. Namaaz is addressed to Allah with niyyat including words “lillahi azza wa jal”. Tawassul is asking someone to pray for you. If it was asking someone to cure you or give you wealth, you would not address your namaaz to Allah, would you? Wahhabis think that that is what you are doing. That is because they are ignorant and, in their ignorance they invoke Wahhab (they think they are doing it for Allah) to murder innocents.