syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

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incredible
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syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#1

Unread post by incredible » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:05 am

Bismillah hir rahmanir rahim

in the name of ALLAH

right now i am in surat for zikra,and i was so disopinted that belowed syedna was in low tone this time then how usually he delivers waiz,his voice was shrilled and he was breathing down,he also talked abut the sign Imam amir gave to his hudood about his death,and in the last he said this is sign for my hudood to think about,i am not sure what he mean by that,at last he said this is my last salaam to momeenun,


I pray to ALLAH may HE give him long life.Ameen

S. Insaf
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#2

Unread post by S. Insaf » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:04 pm

Brother/sister incredible,
Since you are one of contributers to this forum and since you are in Surat, what is your factual report on stampede, ijures and death that have been widely reported in media?
As I understand Syedna Saheb every year go to Jamiyah to conduct exams of the students.
Any idea why it is called Zikra and why such a huge gathering?
In Zikra was there any mention of 43rd Dai Syedna Abde Ali Saifuddin Saheb who established this institution?
Lastly did any one condole the death that took place there?

ghulam muhammed
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#3

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:44 pm

Burhanuddin saab was indeed in a low tone this time and even his bayan was quite short as compared to the previous zikras. He finished off his sermons by around 1.45 pm.

incredible
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#4

Unread post by incredible » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:19 pm

S. Insaf wrote:Brother/sister incredible,
Since you are one of contributers to this forum and since you are in Surat, what is your factual report on stampede, ijures and death that have been widely reported in media?
As I understand Syedna Saheb every year go to Jamiyah to conduct exams of the students.
Any idea why it is called Zikra and why such a huge gathering?
In Zikra was there any mention of 43rd Dai Syedna Abde Ali Saifuddin Saheb who established this institution?
Lastly did any one condole the death that took place there?
there have been stampede and number of people have been injured and 2 momeena have been died.i dont have the exact number of people died in stampede.zikra have been derived from word zikar,coz zikar of ahlul bayt and masoomeen is remembered on this ocassion of jamea examination,as most of time people dont get chance to have deedar of syedna,huge gathering is found in zikra coz most of momeen frm gujarat is gathered in this majlis,he does mentioned about syedna abde Ali sayfuddin but this time waiz was very short a dn it was all concentrated on matam and importance of ahlul bayt.

S. Insaf
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#5

Unread post by S. Insaf » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:24 am

Thanks incredible for the information.
My local Amil Saheb Shaikh Abdullah bhai had told me that the name Zikra was given because Syedna Saheb does the Zikr of his father and our 51st Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb on this occasion because he had established "Jamiyatus-Saifia" university. This is naturally as per the teaching he has recieved in Jamiyah.

aziz
Posts: 313
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#6

Unread post by aziz » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:13 am

oh my god now you have local amil saheb too,i thought you only listened and quoted bhaisahebs and insiders at saifee or badri mahal,going through bad times it seems.

as for zikr of 51 dail mutlaq, moula tus can do this anywhere at all times,but zikra is not for that specifically and he is not 51 dail mutlaq of the progs he never was,the same with our moula tus the 52 dail mutlaq he is the dai of us dawoodi bohras only and not of progs,he is our moula and ours only

guy_sam2005
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#7

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:33 am

incredible wrote:Bismillah hir rahmanir rahim

in the name of ALLAH

right now i am in surat for zikra,and i was so disopinted that belowed syedna was in low tone this time then how usually he delivers waiz,his voice was shrilled and he was breathing down,he also talked abut the sign Imam amir gave to his hudood about his death,and in the last he said this is sign for my hudood to think about,i am not sure what he mean by that,at last he said this is my last salaam to momeenun,


I pray to ALLAH may HE give him long life.Ameen
u said bye on sunday u back on monday?dude dont keep 2 faces.u know wat this site is all about..........

incredible
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#8

Unread post by incredible » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:52 am

guy_sam2005 wrote: u said bye on sunday u back on monday?dude dont keep 2 faces.u know wat this site is all about..........

Allah knows about my niyyah,u are no one to decide how many faces i keep and what i do,btw tell me what is all this site about?i think this is a better way for bohras to communicate and share views,every community shud have some medium to share information and views.if u would have read my previous threads u must have acknoledge that my views are islamic and i want islamic way of life shud be implied in momeen life.namaz and quraan shud be offered with understanding and not just parrot recieting.

every one shud have freedom to express views.

profastian
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#9

Unread post by profastian » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:37 pm

incredible wrote: at last he said this is my last salaam to momeenun.
Were you stoned during the Zikra. No such thing as the "last" salaam was mentioned.

incredible
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#10

Unread post by incredible » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:49 pm

profastian wrote:
incredible wrote: at last he said this is my last salaam to momeenun.
Were you stoned during the Zikra. No such thing as the "last" salaam was mentioned.
I wasn't stoned and I heard it very clearly but seems u missed that part coz may u was busy rushing to mawaid for salawaat naa jaman after waiz.

He said this while he was giving salami comming down from chair where syedna was sitting.

Infact he said this twice.u confirm this from some one who was more concentraing on waiz then salawaat naa jaman.
Last edited by incredible on Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

profastian
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#11

Unread post by profastian » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:51 pm

incredible wrote:
profastian wrote: Were you stoned during the Zikra. No such thing as the "last" salaam was mentioned.
I wasn't stoned and I heard it very clearly but seems u missed that part coz may u was busy rushing to mawaid for salawaat naa jaman after waiz.

He said this while he was giving salami comming down from chair where syedna was sitting.
Yes, but no where was last mentioned.

profastian
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#12

Unread post by profastian » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:59 pm

Btw Insaap, your local aamil is right. Zikra is the Zikr of Syedna Taher Saifuddin.
Thats what zikhra literally means too, doesn't it :wink: :wink:

ghulam muhammed
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#13

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:47 pm

Zikra is actually spelled as 'Zikr' which is one more way of remembering Allah wherein Auliyas used to spend hours in remembrance of Allah reciting names of Allah due to which it was alwayas referred to as 'Zikr-e-Ilahi'. Sadly for present day bohras it has been reduced to 'Zikraaaaa' and that too in remembrance of the 51st dai, it is now 'Zikr-e-dai'. The bohra zikra is like old wine packed in new bottle..... same stereotyped bayan which one hears in Mohurrum and hardly anything different, not to forget the 2 mithas and 2 kharas. It is just one more event where bohras accross the globe flock together and which acts as a show of strength and gives much needed publicity to the dai. There is nothing spectacularly different in bohra zikras as compared to mohurrum vayez.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#14

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:03 pm

"Verily! Only in the Zikr of Allah will your heart find peace."
Quran (Surah 13: Verse 28)

Zikr, pronounced “Dhi-kar”, means remembrance. It is often associated with Allah to mean "Remembrance of Allah".

Zikr means to absorb one's consciousness in the remembrance of Allah you can remember Allah in any language and in almost in any place.

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (Radhiyallaho Anho) narrated that Rasulullah (SALLALLAHU ALAIHI WASALLAM) has said:

"Almighty Allah says, I treat my slave (man) according to his expectations from Me, and I am with him when he remembers Me. If he remembers Me in his heart, I remember him in My heart; if he remembers Me in a gathering, I remember him in a better and nobler gathering (i.e. of angels). If he comes closer to Me by one span, I go towards him a cubit's length, if he comes towards Me by a cubit's length, I go towards him an arm's length, and if he walks towards Me, I run unto him."

"Whenever a slave of mine remembers Me, I am with him." In another Haadith, it is stated, "So long as one's lips move in My remembrance I remain with him" i.e. Almighty Allah bestows His special care and mercy on him during all this time.

Zikr should form part of a unified effort in establishing in our lives the true practice of Islam, agreed that due to the life style we lead in today’s society one may find themselves unable to maintain the practice on a regular basis

When starting to practise Zikr one should have one's thoughts directed and determined to achieve a desired goal. Zikr only has one true purpose but there are seven paths which lead one to reach the ultimate goal. Through the regular practice of Zikr a person can attain peace and tranquillity in his or her life it aids in achieving clear thought process and helps in appreciating life’s small wonders. The practice of Zikr overtime increases one’s imaan and allows the person to understand that whatever good or bad that happens in life occurs with the consent of Allah and He alone can help us overcome difficulties and He is worthy of praise in times of joy and sadness.

Virtues of all good deeds are numerous and pleasing. But none can even remotely compare to the vast blessings, gifts, grace, stations, peace and tranquillity received by one who performs Zikr.

There are three types of Zikr:

1. Practical
2. Verbal
3. Silent

According to Haadith, a person who possesses the following four things is truly blessed, from the secular as well as spiritual point of view:—

1. A tongue ever absorbed in the Zikr of Almighty Allah.
2. A heart filled with gratitude of Allah.
3. A body capable of undergoing hardships.
4. A wife who does not betray her husband's trust in respect of her chastity and his wealth.

I have observed many times that when one partakes in Zikr aloud, the flavour of the sweetness enjoyed by that person is so transmitted to the listeners that their mouths also feel the sweetness and they share the ecstasy likewise. But this phenomenon is possible only where there is a genuine yearning for Zikr, and the tongue is accustomed to excessive remembrance of Allah. It is stated in one Haadith that the proof of one's love for Almighty Allah lies in one's love for the Zikr of Allah, and in the same way lack of Zikr betrays lack of attachment with Almighty Allah.

I will finish this article with this quote:

“Hadhrat Ibne Abbas R.A (Companion of the Prophet SALLALLAHU ALAIHI WASALLAM) pointed out that all forms of worship have two characteristics. First, there are certain exceptions in terms of time and situation that serve to limit the extent of such worship. Second, personal incapacity or inability to perform the worship has been accommodated. The only exception is Zikrullah which is limited by no condition or incapacity. All Muslims are ordained to perform Zikrullah at all times, in all conditions: while travelling; both in happy and troubled times, in health and in sickness; while walking, standing. Do Zikr in every condition.”

"Those who believe, and whose hearts find satisfaction in the remembrance of Allah: for without doubt in the

remembrance of Allah do hearts find satisfaction."
(Qur’an Ar ra’ad v28)


http://www.articlesbase.com/religion-ar ... 11585.html

Smart
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#15

Unread post by Smart » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:50 pm

As I have been mentioning time and again, that this is no longer a religion, it has been usurped and converted into a personality cult. What else is expected from a cult?

S. Insaf
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#16

Unread post by S. Insaf » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:12 pm

Lastly did any one condole the death that took place there?
This question has not been answered by brother incredible.

The same question has been asked by brother Asghar Vasanwala in recent e-mail while sending this video reference:
http://www.in.com/videos/watchvideo-wom ... 76031.html
Woman killed, 10 injured in Surat stampede


“Many years back, when Pope visited then Bombay, a truck full of Christian was passing under a bridge and hit devotee Christians. One died. When Pope was told about it, he interrupted his plans and immediately went to the bereaved family and paid his condolences. I wonder if Bohra leadership paid such courtesy visit to this unfortunate woman’s family.”

mukhlis52
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#17

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:11 am

al-Zikra, with the prolonged 'a' is not a bohra invention. The word is mentioned in the Qur'an, where Allah Ta'ala says in Surat Al An'aam, verse 68 and 69, that 'if the satan makes you forget, then dont sit after the Zikra with the unbelievers. And there shall be no judgement on the pious, but it is for the sake of Zikra, maybe they will remain pious.

guy_sam2005
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#18

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:04 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:Zikra is actually spelled as 'Zikr' which is one more way of remembering Allah wherein Auliyas used to spend hours in remembrance of Allah reciting names of Allah due to which it was alwayas referred to as 'Zikr-e-Ilahi'. Sadly for present day bohras it has been reduced to 'Zikraaaaa' and that too in remembrance of the 51st dai, it is now 'Zikr-e-dai'. The bohra zikra is like old wine packed in new bottle..... same stereotyped bayan which one hears in Mohurrum and hardly anything different, not to forget the 2 mithas and 2 kharas. It is just one more event where bohras accross the globe flock together and which acts as a show of strength and gives much needed publicity to the dai. There is nothing spectacularly different in bohra zikras as compared to mohurrum vayez.
maybe..but thats bohra's problem....wats bothering you

guy_sam2005
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Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:46 am

Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#19

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:07 am

S. Insaf wrote:
Lastly did any one condole the death that took place there?
This question has not been answered by brother incredible.

The same question has been asked by brother Asghar Vasanwala in recent e-mail while sending this video reference:
http://www.in.com/videos/watchvideo-wom ... 76031.html
Woman killed, 10 injured in Surat stampede


“Many years back, when Pope visited then Bombay, a truck full of Christian was passing under a bridge and hit devotee Christians. One died. When Pope was told about it, he interrupted his plans and immediately went to the bereaved family and paid his condolences. I wonder if Bohra leadership paid such courtesy visit to this unfortunate woman’s family.”
dai is not pope..we are not chritians..you are none..............and ur post is dumb........1 guy died because of security for PM...so did he visit his home and mourn........

porus
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#20

Unread post by porus » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:27 am

mukhlis52 wrote:al-Zikra, with the prolonged 'a' is not a bohra invention. The word is mentioned in the Qur'an, where Allah Ta'ala says in Surat Al An'aam, verse 68 and 69, that 'if the satan makes you forget, then dont sit after the Zikra with the unbelievers. And there shall be no judgement on the pious, but it is for the sake of Zikra, maybe they will remain pious.
Zikra means remembrance. It is a word with neutral meaning and can apply to anything remembered.

For Bohras, Zikra, with capital Z. is an annual institution. If it is for remembrance of the 51st Dai, then it is just that.

If your reference to the Quran is to identify that the word 'zikra' is a proper Arabic word, then that is fine. Quran has no relevance to the Bohra institution of the gathering of Sayedna's devotees to remember his father or anyone else. Unless. of course, it is for the Zikr of Allah alone.

accountability
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#21

Unread post by accountability » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:50 am

"dai is not pope..we are not chritians..you are none..............and ur post is dumb........1 guy died because of security for PM...so did he visit his home and mourn........"

What Pope did was a noble thing, it was a human thing too. I dont see the reason for your sarcasm, as there was nothing wrong in visiting to grieve some one's dear, specially if it was the result of your doing. Syedna Saheb may not visit the home of the woman died, but administration could issue a statement on their website for condolence of the family. Also administration could make some one accountable and poor management, starting from head of jamia, whose duty was to organize Zikra gathering.
Instead of giving some space on mumineen.org to atleast condol the event, it is full of jubilation. So my perception is right that they treat us like insects, and there is no value of our lives for them.
Your logic that PM did not visit the dead person home to mourn do not auger well. PM wass not a spritual father of that person, or to say the master of his body and soul. Also there were and are rulers who would kill and get killed. Pinoche of Chile got thousands killed.

SBM
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#22

Unread post by SBM » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:09 am

^
In case of PM, the MP from that district was asked to visit the family and new rules will be implemented to prevents incidents of this nature. Even Sonya Gandhi issued the public statement regarding the unfortunate incident

mukhlis52
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#23

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:48 am

Zikra means remembrance. It is a word with neutral meaning and can apply to anything remembered.

For Bohras, Zikra, with capital Z. is an annual institution. If it is for remembrance of the 51st Dai, then it is just that.

If your reference to the Quran is to identify that the word 'zikra' is a proper Arabic word, then that is fine. Quran has no relevance to the Bohra institution of the gathering of Sayedna's devotees to remember his father or anyone else. Unless. of course, it is for the Zikr of Allah alone.
Have you heard or read the Ayat in Surat al Zukhruf, verse 84, which says 'and he it is who is Ilaah in the skies, and in the Land there is an Ilaah, and he is the wise, the knower'
This Ayat proclaims a very deep meaning. It can be understood by an example.
Can anyone living in Mumbai visit Mecca without the help of any means of transport? Even if it means his own legs he has to use? The answer is a natural No!. So, if Mecca, which cannot be reached without help from a means of transport, how in the world can anyone reach to Allah, the creator of Mecca, and the whole universe without any help, guide or wasila, who can act as the representative of Allah in this world. So, if Zikra is made by gathering followers in the rememberance of the guide who can take us to Allah, what is so wrong or out of track in that? I feel this would be the reason for the Allah in the skies to be happy with those who solemnly attend this Zikra.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#24

Unread post by porus » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:11 pm

There is no need to visit Makka to perform zikr of Allah. You can do it anywhere, alone or together with one or many people.

Bohra Zikra is a gathering to remember a Guide. There is nothing wrong with that. It cannot be justified with reference to the Quran, though.

You might as well hold a function to honor the aircraft that takes you to Makka. There is nothing wrong with that either.

incredible
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#25

Unread post by incredible » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:16 pm

I think we have got some brilliant brains on this forum mashallah.

incredible
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#26

Unread post by incredible » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:18 pm

mukhlis52 wrote:Zikra means remembrance. It is a word with neutral meaning and can apply to anything remembered.

For Bohras, Zikra, with capital Z. is an annual institution. If it is for remembrance of the 51st Dai, then it is just that.

If your reference to the Quran is to identify that the word 'zikra' is a proper Arabic word, then that is fine. Quran has no relevance to the Bohra institution of the gathering of Sayedna's devotees to remember his father or anyone else. Unless. of course, it is for the Zikr of Allah alone.
Have you heard or read the Ayat in Surat al Zukhruf, verse 84, which says 'and he it is who is Ilaah in the skies, and in the Land there is an Ilaah, and he is the wise, the knower'
This Ayat proclaims a very deep meaning. It can be understood by an example.
Can anyone living in Mumbai visit Mecca without the help of any means of transport? Even if it means his own legs he has to use? The answer is a natural No!. So, if Mecca, which cannot be reached without help from a means of transport, how in the world can anyone reach to Allah, the creator of Mecca, and the whole universe without any help, guide or wasila, who can act as the representative of Allah in this world. So, if Zikra is made by gathering followers in the rememberance of the guide who can take us to Allah, what is so wrong or out of track in that? I feel this would be the reason for the Allah in the skies to be happy with those who solemnly attend this Zikra.[/quote]

**********************************
bhai mukhlis,

are u trying to say there are 2 gods with ur reference to quraan? man that will just alter the whole meaning of ISLAM.please avoid any such post which can lead people to gumrahi,there is only ONE GOD on land and sky.


I have just look at surah Al-Zukhruf ayat 84 and this is what it says....




وَتَبَارَكَ الَّذِي لَهُ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا وَعِنْدَهُ عِلْمُ السَّاعَةِ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ [٤٣:٨٥]
And blessed is He to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all between them: with Him is the Knowledge of the Hour (of Judgment): and to Him shall ye be brought back.


this is ayat 83

وَهُوَ الَّذِي فِي السَّمَاءِ إِلَٰهٌ وَفِي الْأَرْضِ إِلَٰهٌ ۚ وَهُوَ الْحَكِيمُ الْعَلِيمُ [٤٣:٨٤]
It is He Who is Allah in heaven and Allah on earth; and He is full of Wisdom and Knowledge.

ayat 85

وَلَا يَمْلِكُ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِنْ دُونِهِ الشَّفَاعَةَ إِلَّا مَنْ شَهِدَ بِالْحَقِّ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ [٤٣:٨٦]
And those whom they invoke besides Allah have no power of intercession;- only he who bears witness to the Truth, and they know (him).

mukhlis52
Posts: 44
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#27

Unread post by mukhlis52 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:43 pm

the example of mecca and the means of transport was misunderstood. I did not contend that zikr of allah has to be done in mecca. It was just an example no more. Hope sum1 understands what i tried to say. Abt bein two allah, its utter rubbish, i never said that. To avoid tht notion, i used the word guide. Abt the celebration of the aircraft, the opinion is too poor to even refute it and give an explanation

bohri
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#28

Unread post by bohri » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:58 pm

Mr. Mukhlis (what's the point of the 52 suffix?)

let's cut through the chase.This bohra Zikra is 100% about adulation of the sultan, and 0% about anything to do with Allah. This is amply explained in the report filed by muminees.org.
We, on the whole around 2100 volunteers gathered from almost 58 cities and towns, we all geared ourselves by just one and only sole niyat, jaan nisari, tafadi and only fida giri on AQA MAULA (TUS) was the only collective goal, our members belong to all walks of life but while wearing the badge of BGI on their uniform meant to be united

ghulam muhammed
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Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#29

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:11 pm

Sajda to Allah is now Sajda to dai.

Allah ni namaz is now Mola ni namaz.

Zakat for poor is now zakat to dai.

Allah ni Masjid is now Dai's personal property (no sawab without wakf to dai).

Allah's Jannat is now purchased by dai and entry is possible only after dai gives 'occupation certificate' (Safai chithi).

AND NOW

Zikr-e-Ilahi is Zikr-e-dai.

Dont be suprised if henceforth 'Matam-e-Hussain' becomes 'Matam-e-dai' and we hear Ya Saifudin and Ya Burhanuddin instead of Ya Hussain.

aqs
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 am

Re: syedna(tus) was in low tone this zikra

#30

Unread post by aqs » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:13 am

incredible wrote:
profastian wrote: Were you stoned during the Zikra. No such thing as the "last" salaam was mentioned.
I wasn't stoned and I heard it very clearly but seems u missed that part coz may u was busy rushing to mawaid for salawaat naa jaman after waiz.

He said this while he was giving salami comming down from chair where syedna was sitting.

Infact he said this twice.u confirm this from some one who was more concentraing on waiz then salawaat naa jaman.

i second Profastian that nothing of this sort was said, In fact Syedna (tus) said take my salaam and NOT alkhri or last salaam.

and how do i know ?? because i was sitting right in front