Time to revise the 'official position'

[Al Zulfiqar]

murtu,

you and your fellow abde morons have asked this question so far on this forum atleast 1500 times. you have got the official reformist position in reply. yet you still continue barking like a rabid dog. you know what happens to rabid dogs if they become a serious nuisance to society, dont you?

since you are so seized with this issue and you want a first hand answer, the only way for you and your fellow morons would be to go to udaipur, attend fajr prayers for a week and see and hear first hand whether they are reciting dai's names upto the 52nd. you will receive first class and warm hospitality and will be welcomed with open arms. your accomodation, food and everything else will be taken care of fully.

instead of going bonkers here and tearing your few remaining hairs out, go solve the mystery yrself. take your other fanatics along and have a better picnic in udaipur than the annual moharram tamasha of syedna, sans the shikar trip of course, because in rajasthan syedna cannot bribe the officials too openly.

[murtaza2152]

@Husain KSA

You quoted,
I believe him as Dai Mutlaq. I
have been to Surat to pass the
exam conducted by Jamia

(It must be Mustafedeen Exam, When did you go, before 28
years ago??)

and we used to recite his name during fajr
prayer

(i didnt understand it,its obvious Dai s name is
recited in all Masjids, I ask ,,Do
You recite when Today you
pray Fajar Namaz,) .

I have left the mainstream Jamat before
28 years. It was local jamat
fued which later became
prestige issue of kothar and
our group ( who left
mainstream)

(I can understand it,but bro Whose Nuksaan is
there in this case,!!.)

[Hussain_KSA]

@Husain KSA

You quoted,
I believe him as Dai Mutlaq. I
have been to Surat to pass the
exam conducted by Jamia

(It must be Mustafedeen Exam, When did you go, before 28
years ago??)

Yes it was fourth grade examination (al rabia) before 22 years back. I later studied Daim ul Islam and other books (most of them in Arabic) as our family still hold good collection of books. However Dr. Zahid Ali's books were donated to Ismaili library in London.
and we used to recite his name during fajr
prayer

(i didnt understand it,its obvious Dai s name is
recited in all Masjids, I ask ,,Do
You recite when Today you
pray Fajar Namaz,) .

No I don't recite today after fajar Namaz as it is supplication and not part of Namaz or compulsory. There are many bohras who even don't pray so I would apprecaite if you don't make it an issue
I have left the mainstream Jamat before
28 years. It was local jamat
fued which later became
prestige issue of kothar and
our group ( who left
mainstream)

There were around 500 other people beside me. However, most of them have returnded to Mainstream Jamat since than (you should be happy and I am sure you will reqoute this lilne). Now only few are left and there are strong efforts from Mainstream Jamat to bring them back in community fold as Syedna saheb during his waez desired all who left the community to come back in jamat.
(I can understand it,but bro Whose Nuksaan is
there in this case,!!.)

Well I too lost lot of things due to this including my close relatives for years (now they are in good terms with me) frinds, social events, etc. I don't know whose Nuksaan is that but I did what I thought was good for my self respect. I would have ignored if something was from local Jamat only but I have experienced Kothar's higher ups direct involment and high handling of the affairs. I hope I answer you question. I don't want to further discuss on this matter.

[truebohra]

murtu,

"you and your fellow abde morons have asked this question so far on this forum atleast 1500 times

And the proggies have not answered in straigt manner once..
Ans you are a rabid creature unleashed by the proggies to protect the cowards to whom the question has been asked hundred times personally from answering...

[Humsafar]

Reformists accept the chain of Dais upto the 52nd. This is official. The charge that reformists only recite the names of dais upto the 46th is just an allegation based on hearsay. Even if it is true, it is only be a matter of personal beliefs of certain individuals. In essence, this is no different from personal beliefs of abdes who claim that Dai is GOD on earth.

[murtaza2152]

Reformists accept the chain of Dais upto the 52nd. This is official.

(Accept as What Dail Mutlaq or Dai Nazim)


The charge that reformists only recite the names of dais upto the 46th is just an allegation based on hearsay. Even if it is true, it is only be a matter of personal beliefs of certain individuals.


(In Masjids Where all Progs Come And Pray Namaz,And Imam of Masjid Which Represents Community, Recites Name upto 46 Dai,, and You call it as a Personal belief!!!Strange)



In essence, this is no different from personal beliefs of abdes who claim that Dai is GOD on earth.



All Abdes believe 52nd Dail Mutlaq is God's Representative, Ma'ana of Tawhid ,And Today In Imams Satr, Only Man On Earth Which has Allahs Noor in him....He is Gods ,Imams, Hujjat on Earth.

[truebohra]

Many Dawoodi Bohras families of Bagasara were in forefront with Mahatma Gandhi in fight against mighty British. They were awarded a title of “Bharat Putra”. Later Zaitun Kapasi, a Congress MLA, Qutub Azad, Taher bhai Hirani, Mulla Zulfiqar Husain etc. from Bagasra joined hands with Noman Contractor in Gandhian agitation against Kothar. Their impact is still evident in Bagasra. Sawarkundla is one more such example in Gujarat. One reason could be the acute poverty of Dawoodi Bohras in these areas.

Mr S.Inaf,
Everybody can see what a big hypocrite you are. You have jumped from no where to answer this Question & infact answered with a fake analysis.
But couldn't answer a simple question asked to you '1500' times (claimed by one of the proggies AZ)
Again the Question... Pointed & Direct. (this time asked 1501 times & answered 0 times)

Till which Dai you recite name after Fajr Salah & why?
Do you personaly think there was a controversy related to 47th Dai.

[Conscíous]

Mr S.Inaf,
Everybody can see what a big hypocrite you are. You have jumped from no where to answer this Question & infact answered with a fake analysis.
But couldn't answer a simple question asked to you '1500' times (claimed by one of the proggies AZ)
Again the Question... Pointed & Direct. (this time asked 1501 times & answered 0 times)
Till which Dai you recite name after Fajr Salah & why?
Do you personaly think there was a controversy related to 47th Dai.

Admin.. I think it's on time you start handing out warning to this fanatic's,.. I & many other's are not interested to read about this issue & watch Insaf bhai get harassed..

[Humsafar]

Mr S.Inaf,
Everybody can see what a big hypocrite you are. You have jumped from no where to answer this Question & infact answered with a fake analysis.
But couldn't answer a simple question asked to you '1500' times (claimed by one of the proggies AZ)
Again the Question... Pointed & Direct. (this time asked 1501 times & answered 0 times)

Till which Dai you recite name after Fajr Salah & why?
Do you personaly think there was a controversy related to 47th Dai.

Don't divert the topic. Your question has been answered here: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... =60#p77644

Regarding the 47th dai, yes there is a controversy - it is generally acknowledged by many among Bohras. But this has nothing to with the reform movement, or it's official position regarding Dais and their successions.

[S. Insaf]

Dear murtaza2152,
Please try to understand the difference between Namaz and Dua. Dua could be for well being of my parents, a sick person or even for getting good job; with a firm belief and iman that the Allah is the All-Giver and these do not come by the ahsanat and karam of a mortal human being.
I had stated earlier that there are Bohras from both side of the divide who believe in Dais upto 46th as Haq na Dai. But it is religious controversy and reformist Bohras have nothing to do with that controversy.
Please question yourself which is more serious: 1) to pray namaz for Syednas equating them with Allah or 2) raising the issue of Dua after namaz?

[ANA BOHRI]

I agree with Mr. Boom...It’s really irritating to read the same stupid question over and again which has no basis in ISLAM.

I don't follow new ritual of Maatam introduced recently after Namaz.....Mr Murtaza now go and figure out if i am a dawoodi bohra or not and I care a cent if you feel that i am not one....

who cares if reformist recite up to 47th Dai or 52nd Dai...If you are so much worried about our community then spare some times and visit small towns of Gujarat and Rajasthan and see how pathetic life our brothers and sisters are living and these kothars are pocketing all the money and doing nothing for their up-liftment.

[truebohra]

Do you personaly think there was a controversy related to 47th Dai.

Don't divert the topic. Your question has been answered here: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... =60#p77644

Regarding the 47th dai, yes there is a controversy - it is generally acknowledged by many among Bohras. But this has nothing to with the reform movement, or it's official position regarding Dais and their successions.

Humsafar,
It is really strange. There may be controversy regarding 47ths Dai created by mischeif mongers & proggys believe it. What is important is where your faith lies? Humsafar, you said 'Regarding the 47th dai, yes there is a controversy '. For abdes, the real Dawodi Bohras the Faith is unshakable and we believe there is no controversy. The chain is intact till 52nd and there is no controversy.52nd Dai is Haq-na-Dai.

This debate has all to do with reform movement. The mischief mongers who created the controversy are the progenies (in terms of is ideology) of current proggys. They created a rift which is even visible today. The latter proggys somehow derives the inspiration from those mischief mongers.

The proggies are hiding behind the veil of Administrative reforms. They have 'Reformed' thier faith such that they cease to be 'Dawoodi Bohras'. Behind this veil they want the Administrative controls of Dawat to be in the hands of their cohorts. They can call themselves 'Reformis Bohra or whatever.


Alavis, Sulemanis also seperated on controversy of nass. Proggys are not dissimiliar. Alteast they are honest to their belief and acknowledge it in public. But the hypocrisy of the 'Reform movement' disallows Reformist from changing their official position.

Its irony that your sympathies lies with 'Ahmed Ali Raj' who distorted the core belief. But continues to mock & question the 51st & 52nd Dai whom you claim to recognise as true Dail-Al-Mutlaq with true nass.

If in your masjid you can recite names upto 46th Dai then why not uptill current Dai? isnt this a hypocrisy. You tell me humsafar, till which Dai you recite the name if at all?
There is nothing wrong in reciting/or not reciting the name. But if you are doing it then why till 46th Dai only why not till 52nd Dai whom you consider as Dai-Al-Mutlaq of current Daur.

The reason is simple. You dont recognize Dai's after 46th. You are not Dawoodi Bohras.

Please you & your cohorts keep away from the internal matters of Dawoodi Bohras.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Please you & your cohorts keep away from the internal matters of Dawoodi Bohras.

put that in your pipe and smoke it..

[progpigs]

I haf post a logical argument on the topic "Syedna is a star created by Imam Hussain"

can you reformist atleast prove my logic WRONG??? an open invitation!!

[Al Zulfiqar]

1) Do you believe Dail Mutlaq is Infallible Masum? Y/N

NO.

2)Do you believe to do Sajada ie Taqbilul Ard Takriman va Taziman (Not as same as to Allah )to Dail Mutlaq?Y/N

NO

3)Do yo believe 52 dai as Dail Mutalq?Y/N

YES

If Yes Do you recite his name in Fajr Namaz Doa?Y/N

NO

4)Do you believe Practices or Farmans of Dail Mutlaq are according to Islamic Laws?Y/N

NO

5)Do you believe 52nd Dail Mutlaq is Corrupt or his Family is Corrupt?

EXTREMELY CORRUPT

[progpigs]

so tht states ur mushriq n munafiq!!

munafiq coz u blv in 52nd dai but not follow his orders..... same wat happened with the 3!!!

mushriq coz u dun blv in justiceof Allah and rather want ur justice to be ruled...

n as per islam... mushriq n munafiq par lanat jaiz che!!!

[truebohra]

Please you & your cohorts keep away from the internal matters of Dawoodi Bohras.

put that in your pipe and smoke it..

AZ(gar)
By the way the real Dawoodi Bohras dont smoke, You can keep your idea for yourself. We cannot expect anything more than this from you.
I see there are no proggys who are able to refute my charges against them point by point. Humsafar, has made himself invisible to my questions & allegatiomns.

This proves Proggys are hijackers & Hyporcrites

[aziz]

you can see from the crazy morons answers that that the progs believe syedna tus to be a dailmutlaq,but they will not say his name in the namaz,they will only say names of upto 46 th dai why because somebody was thrown out of jamea and got a case of sour grapes..
they want to be known as dawoodi bohras ,they want to be burried in dawoodi bohra cemeteries ,they want all the benefits of being a dawoodi bohra but without doing anything by living like hindus and christians

[aziz]

and the snake aka insaap wants to separate dua which means prayer with namaz which are also prayers,only that 5 namaz are farz and the rest optional,and dua is all optional,,
this means that the rakats we pray for the health of our dai are optional and not farz ,but like iblis he wants to say that syedna has made the two rakats farz, thats howthe real iblis duped hawa as and now his son insaaf is trying to dupe his fellow progs because this stupid person who claims to be very knowledgeable and knows the names of all dawoodi bohrra haqiqat books does not want to go to hell alone like his father iblis before him

[Al Zulfiqar]

wow! its great fun seeing all the abde morons jumping up and down with unbridled glee, as if they have found the hidden fountain of youth!!

let me repeat for the benefit of those with an IQ of 32:

believing that dai is infallible is SHIRK!

doing sajda to dai is SHIRK!

taking his name in namaaz or after namaaz is voluntary choice, not mandatory. believing it otherwise is SHIRK!

allowing dai and his family to live a life of luxury on community's money and not holding them accountable is SHIRK!

ignoring dai and his family's corruption, arrogance, tyranny and loot is SHIRK!

[progpigs]

wow! its great fun seeing all the abde morons jumping up and down with unbridled glee, as if they have found the hidden fountain of youth!! let me repeat for the benefit of those with an IQ of 32: believing that dai is infallible is SHIRK! doing sajda to dai is SHIRK! taking his name in namaaz or after namaaz is voluntary choice, not mandatory. believing it otherwise is SHIRK! allowing dai and his family to live a life of luxury on community's money and not holding them accountable is SHIRK! ignoring dai and his family's corruption, arrogance, tyranny and loot is SHIRK!

TALKING AGAINST ANY MUSLIM IS THE BIGGEST SHIRK!!! do you know tht the punishment of backbiting in Islam accornding to QURAN is eating meat/flesh of your brother!!

And you fool talking about SYEDNA who is at the age of 100 (no respect at all!!) and talking about him behind him!!!??

I surely assure you that I will be the one to drag you to depth of hell with your followers soo be prepared and keep fearing me

[SBM]

propig
I surely assure you that I will be the one to drag you to depth of hell with your followers soo be prepared and keep fearing me

SO YOU ARE GOING TO HELL RIGHT

[progpigs]

YES TO DRAG YOU in HELL!!
So tht when i m there in JANNAH i will be very calm, relaxed and be happy for my all life that I got the PRESTIGE to push you in the deepest of hell

[udrbohri]

Hello Everybody,
I request Progs to answer this Five simple questions,
Please give your individual opinian about it,


1) Do you believe Dail Mutlaq is Infallible Masum? Y/N
No, this is now a hereditary positions. God knows who is next uneligible guy who will grab this throne. 1000.... crore riding

2)Do you believe to do Sajada ie Taqbilul Ard Takriman va Taziman (Not as same as to Allah )to Dail Mutlaq?Y/N
I didn't understand this term Taqb........? Im sure you must have written this meaning without any understanding.
Sajda is only when you pray Namaz

3)Do yo believe 52 dai as Dail Mutalq?Y/N
If Yes Do you recite his name in Fajr Namaz Doa?Y/N
No. He may be termed as sultan of abdes who love kharas meethas, and doing maatam whatever may be the occasion[marriage or teeja or barsi or urs or moharamm feast as abdes call ashra mubarak]

4)Do you believe Practices or Farmans of Dail Mutlaq are according to Islamic Laws?Y/N
No. I cannot eat all the times same kinda kharas meethas. Maatam day n night. Same Headgear even if I travel to Alps.............

5)Do you believe 52nd Dail Mutlaq is Corrupt or his Family is Corrupt?
No. I believe a corrupt person is one who cheat his pupil, fellow being, his country. The current dai and his organization is something beyond this corrupt definition. There net of looting is widespread now with kardhe hasana scheme spreading in all major locations.

Please Dont derail the topic,And Answer the Questions

[SBM]

YES TO DRAG YOU in HELL!!
So tht when i m there in JANNAH i will be very calm, relaxed and be happy for my all life that I got the PRESTIGE to push you in the deepest of hell

To drag some one you have to be in the front and lead, so you will be deep inside the Hell then how do you push some one if you are leading the way
atleast now we know that you would not be holding the hands of Moula

[progpigs]

dun wory if i m dragging them to hell... you will be also among them!! and ladies first

well we will see at the day of judgement that who is holding hands of MOULA (TUS) and plz y r u so concern about it???

[SBM]

y r u so concern about it?

When Pigs are boinking too much, one has to worry

[truebohra]

Don't divert the topic. Your question has been answered here: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... =60#p77644

Regarding the 47th dai, yes there is a controversy - it is generally acknowledged by many among Bohras. But this has nothing to with the reform movement, or it's official position regarding Dais and their successions.

Humsafar,
It is really strange. There may be controversy regarding 47ths Dai created by mischeif mongers & proggys believe it. What is important is where your faith lies? Humsafar, you said 'Regarding the 47th dai, yes there is a controversy '. For abdes, the real Dawodi Bohras the Faith is unshakable and we believe there is no controversy. The chain is intact till 52nd and there is no controversy.52nd Dai is Haq-na-Dai.

This debate has all to do with reform movement. The mischief mongers who created the controversy are the progenies (in terms of is ideology) of current proggys. They created a rift which is even visible today. The latter proggys somehow derives the inspiration from those mischief mongers.

The proggies are hiding behind the veil of Administrative reforms. They have 'Reformed' thier faith such that they cease to be 'Dawoodi Bohras'. Behind this veil they want the Administrative controls of Dawat to be in the hands of their cohorts. They can call themselves 'Reformis Bohra or whatever.


Alavis, Sulemanis also seperated on controversy of nass. Proggys are not dissimiliar. Alteast they are honest to their belief and acknowledge it in public. But the hypocrisy of the 'Reform movement' disallows Reformist from changing their official position.

Its irony that your sympathies lies with 'Ahmed Ali Raj' who distorted the core belief. But continues to mock & question the 51st & 52nd Dai whom you claim to recognise as true Dail-Al-Mutlaq with true nass.

If in your masjid you can recite names upto 46th Dai then why not uptill current Dai? isnt this a hypocrisy. You tell me humsafar, till which Dai you recite the name if at all?
There is nothing wrong in reciting/or not reciting the name. But if you are doing it then why till 46th Dai only why not till 52nd Dai whom you consider as Dai-Al-Mutlaq of current Daur.

The reason is simple. You dont recognize Dai's after 46th. You are not Dawoodi Bohras.

Please you & your cohorts keep away from the internal matters of Dawoodi Bohras.

Can any Reformist dare to have meaning full discussion on the above points? I have seen that proggys have always averted topics like this. Humsafar, Porus, S.Insaf where are you? Need your valuable inputs....

[truebohra]

Don't divert the topic. Your question has been answered here: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... =60#p77644

Regarding the 47th dai, yes there is a controversy - it is generally acknowledged by many among Bohras. But this has nothing to with the reform movement, or it's official position regarding Dais and their successions.

Humsafar,
It is really strange. There may be controversy regarding 47ths Dai created by mischeif mongers & proggys believe it. What is important is where your faith lies? Humsafar, you said 'Regarding the 47th dai, yes there is a controversy '. For abdes, the real Dawodi Bohras the Faith is unshakable and we believe there is no controversy. The chain is intact till 52nd and there is no controversy.52nd Dai is Haq-na-Dai.

This debate has all to do with reform movement. The mischief mongers who created the controversy are the progenies (in terms of is ideology) of current proggys. They created a rift which is even visible today. The latter proggys somehow derives the inspiration from those mischief mongers.

The proggies are hiding behind the veil of Administrative reforms. They have 'Reformed' thier faith such that they cease to be 'Dawoodi Bohras'. Behind this veil they want the Administrative controls of Dawat to be in the hands of their cohorts. They can call themselves 'Reformis Bohra or whatever.


Alavis, Sulemanis also seperated on controversy of nass. Proggys are not dissimiliar. Alteast they are honest to their belief and acknowledge it in public. But the hypocrisy of the 'Reform movement' disallows Reformist from changing their official position.

Its irony that your sympathies lies with 'Ahmed Ali Raj' who distorted the core belief. But continues to mock & question the 51st & 52nd Dai whom you claim to recognise as true Dail-Al-Mutlaq with true nass.

If in your masjid you can recite names upto 46th Dai then why not uptill current Dai? isnt this a hypocrisy. You tell me humsafar, till which Dai you recite the name if at all?
There is nothing wrong in reciting/or not reciting the name. But if you are doing it then why till 46th Dai only why not till 52nd Dai whom you consider as Dai-Al-Mutlaq of current Daur.

The reason is simple. You dont recognize Dai's after 46th. You are not Dawoodi Bohras.

Please you & your cohorts keep away from the internal matters of Dawoodi Bohras.[/quote]

.[/quote]


Can any Reformist dare to have meaning full discussion on the above points? I have seen that proggys have always averted topics like this. Humsafar, Porus, S.Insaf where are you? Need your valuable inputs...

[Tariq]

I think I will need to agree to disagree when it comes to your argument. The reform movement is certainly NOT about whether I believe in the validity of the 46th Dai forth. I'll openly say to you that I have very little knowledge about the issues pertaining to this but can only base my own arguments against the methodology of the current orthodox community by the standard established by the the methods of the Panjatan Pak, the Imams and the Qu'ran. I don't really care what political/religious movements took place at the stage of the 46th Dai but I do know this: the current practices of the orthodox community are NOT in accordance to the Islam preached by the Messenger of God or the Panjatan Pak. Islam is a very simple religion: it tells you to believe in the One God, His Messenger and to do good by the guidance of the Ahlul-Bayt and Holy Imams. To believe anything else is to undermine the Mercy that God bestows upon his creation.

If the current practices aren't commensurate with the standard established by the practice, principles and laws of the Qu'ran, The Messenger (PBUH) and the Panjatan Pak (AS) then we can't really follow the current practices dictated by the Kothar, can we? Can you, not, then understand why I don't care what happend aforetime?