Let's hear from Insaf

[progticide]

Insaf...how about answering a few basics, ofcourse if you choose to (chamchas please stay out):

1. Do you pay zakat?

2. If yes, to whom do you pay your zakat? if no, don't bother answering the below questions.

3. If you pay your zakat directly to the poor and needy, is this direct distribution of zakat allowed as per Holy Quran?

4.What does Syedna Qadi Nu'man have to say in the Book of Zakat in his Da'aim al Islam about the authority of the person to collect zakat?

5. Whom does the Holy Quran authorize to collect the zakat? Is the person who is collecting your zakat authorised to collect zakat by the Imam? What authority does he hold?

6. If you have not paid the zakat to the right authority, is it consider paid at all? What do the Imams say about this as per Da'aim al islam?

7. By directly distributing the zakat are you not superceding the authority of the Imam or the authority of the authorised representative of the Imam?

8. If then, your zakat remains unpaid, as per the Holy Quran, what happens to your Salaat(Prayer) and Saum(Fasting)?

9. Who all have you suggested to pay their zakat directly to poor? Or do you collect their zakat? if yes, on whose authority are you collecting and accepting? If no, who has authorised the one who collects zakat from you?

10. What does the Da'aim al Islam have to say about all those who are acting likewise?

[labbaikyaHussain]

I am neither a bohri nor a reformist but i would like to give my opinion on this matter,

1.no where in Quraan it says that a paerticular person shud collect the zakaat including prophet.

2.if you look in the broad sense ZAKAT is ment to be given to the poor so that human can understand the feeling of those who are not quite lucky to get all comfort in this life.

3.ZAKAAT can be given to any needy Muslim.

4.no book is higher in authority then Quraan so it does not matter what bukhari or daim ul islaam talks about zakaat.

[progticide]

I am neither a bohri nor a reformist but i would like to give my opinion on this matter,

1.no where in Quraan it says that a paerticular person shud collect the zakaat including prophet.

2.if you look in the broad sense ZAKAT is ment to be given to the poor so that human can understand the feeling of those who are not quite lucky to get all comfort in this life.

3.ZAKAAT can be given to any needy Muslim.

4.no book is higher in authority then Quraan so it does not matter what bukhari or daim ul islaam talks about zakaat.

“Alms (Zakat) are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); for those whose hearts have been (recently) reconciled (to Truth); for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah; and for the wayfarer: (thus is it) ordained by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.” (Surah Al Tawbah 9:60)

Hope the above highlighted portion clarifies. Kindly educate yourself before making judgemental conclusions. Do not give personal opinions on Quranic injunctions.

Now, let Insaf answer the above queries.

And now, please allow Insaf to answer.

[Muslim First]

Alms (Zakat) are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds);

63 "....

Here is explaination by Maulana Maudidi RhA

63---who are employed to collect them...." are those who collect Zakat dues, supervise the collections and keep accounts, and help in their distribution, irrespective of the fact whether or not they are needy or indigent; their remunerations shall be paid out of the Zakat Funds. In this connection it should be noted well that the Holy Prophet had declared the Zakat Funds to be unlawful for himself and for the members of his own family (Bani Hashim). Accordingly, he never received any remuneration for collecting or distributing Zakat Funds. As regards the other members of Bani Hashim, they were allowed to do this service without receiving any remuneration, but otherwise it is unlawful for them. On the contrary, the payment of the Zakat dues was obligatory on Bani Hashim if their possessions warranted this under the prescribed limits, but under no circumstances whatsoever were they allowed to accept anything out of zakat collected from others.

There is, however, a difference of opinion as to whether they should accept anything out of the collections made from their own family or not. Imam Abu Yusuf opines that they are allowed to accept these when they are needy or poor or wayfarers, but the majority of the Jurists regard this also unlawful.

[Muslim First]

1. Do you pay zakat?

Paying Zakat by br Insaf is none of anybdy's business.

It is between him and Allah

Wasalaam

[Global]

Insecticide has sprayed on himself again...This guy is too much fun.

[stranger]

1. Do you pay zakat?

Paying Zakat by br Insaf is none of anybdy's business.

It is between him and Allah

Wasalaam

Exactly........Now Go and Tell this to Progressive as well.

[Muslim First]

Exactly........Now Go and Tell this to Progressive as well.

Paying Zakat by a Muslim is none of anybdy's business.

It is between him and his Allah

Now progressive need to explain their objection to paying Zakat to Kothar or accountabality of Zakat money.

BTW I am a Muslim not a Bohra.

[stranger]

Paying Zakat by a Muslim is none of anybdy's business.

It is between him and his Allah

Now progressive need to explain their objection to paying Zakat to Kothar or accountabality of Zakat money.

BTW I am a Muslim not a Bohra.

How one like to pays his Zakat and Where, is none of anybdy's business as well.

[porus]

According to Bohra religion, zakaat is paid to Haq na saheb. Haq na saheb can do whatever he wants to do with it.

Haq na Saheb decides according to ilhaam he receives from Imam-uz-zamaan who, like Allah himself, is hidden. These hidden entities, Allah and Imam-uz-zamaan, have dailly meetings with each other and whisper into the ears of Haq na saheb what he should do with zakaat money.

So please. Do not ask about accountability. That would be going against Sayedna, Imam-uz-zamaan and Allah and it would displease Sayedna, Imam-uz-zamaan and Allah Himself. If that happens, both Imam-uz-zaman and Allah would be forced to come out of hiding and reveal themselves in all their glorious rage.

[guy_sam2005]

1. Do you pay zakat?

Paying Zakat by br Insaf is none of anybdy's business.

It is between him and Allah

Wasalaam

We paying Zakaat and najwa is none of ur business its between us ,allah and moula,
Ortho and progressives bohras debate is none of sunni's business its between them...
wassalam too........

[guy_sam2005]

Exactly........Now Go and Tell this to Progressive as well.

Paying Zakat by a Muslim is none of anybdy's business.

It is between him and his Allah

Now progressive need to explain their objection to paying Zakat to Kothar or accountabality of Zakat money.

BTW I am a Muslim not a Bohra.

So get lost n mind ur own business..

[Humsafar]

According to Bohra religion, zakaat is paid to Haq na saheb. Haq na saheb can do whatever he wants to do with it.

Haq na Saheb decides according to ilhaam he receives from Imam-uz-zamaan who, like Allah himself, is hidden. These hidden entities, Allah and Imam-uz-zamaan, have dailly meetings with each other and whisper into the ears of Haq na saheb what he should do with zakaat money.

So please. Do not ask about accountability. That would be going against Sayedna, Imam-uz-zamaan and Allah and it would displease Sayedna, Imam-uz-zamaan and Allah Himself. If that happens, both Imam-uz-zaman and Allah would be forced to come out of hiding and reveal themselves in all their glorious rage.

Right on, Porus.
Now as a reformist who has the audacity to ask for accountability, I'm trembling in fear at their inevitable glorious rage!!!!

[Al Zulfiqar]

If that happens, both Imam-uz-zaman and Allah would be forced to come out of hiding and reveal themselves in all their glorious rage.

that is exactly what happened to the japanese. they dared to ask the syedna about the zakat and wajebat collections and lo and behold! they were the subject of divine rage, earthquakes, tsunamis, nuclear meltdowns and what not. same with haitians and chinese and pakistanis who have all suffered recently some form of divine rage or the other when they ventured to ask syedna and his family for accounts!

even the UN is now treading cautiously and has passed a secret resolution never to cross swords with the bohra syedna. they know he is allah on earth and should never be questioned about money, ayyashi, his shikar trips to murder wild animals from endangered species, his religious utterences or the like. in fact, they too have opened a register to record all the miracles of the syedna and will soon publish them in book form. they have also updated their archives to include a whole floor full of materials on syedna and his father.

it is being discussed in fact behind closed doors, that the UN will soon disband all their organisations like UNHCR, WHO, UNCTAD, etc etc, and hand over all the moneys to syedna considering his spotless and amazing record in charitable and human development projects all over the world, esp for destitutes, widows, orphans, illiteracy, poverty amelioration, refugees, water shortages, environment, scientific research, space exploration, medical relief, disease control etc .

[voice]

Assalam`alekum,

While replying do remember that Kothar administration has changed the term "ZAKAT", therefore Quranic rules of zakat do not apply on it.

Instead they are collecting "WAJEBAT" and it is halal for all Kotharis.

You talk about Abd-ullah ,they pay ZAKAT and you talk about Abde-sayedna, they pay Wajebat.

p.s:- even Daim ul Islam doesn`t deal with so called, wajebat.

[profastian]

According to Bohra religion, zakaat is paid to Haq na saheb. Haq na saheb can do whatever he wants to do with it.

Haq na Saheb decides according to ilhaam he receives from Imam-uz-zamaan who, like Allah himself, is hidden. These hidden entities, Allah and Imam-uz-zamaan, have dailly meetings with each other and whisper into the ears of Haq na saheb what he should do with zakaat money.

So please. Do not ask about accountability. That would be going against Sayedna, Imam-uz-zamaan and Allah and it would displease Sayedna, Imam-uz-zamaan and Allah Himself. If that happens, both Imam-uz-zaman and Allah would be forced to come out of hiding and reveal themselves in all their glorious rage.

The himmar is showing his true colors now. Guess we should have seen this coming. After all, he was SOBER for a few days. Now he is drunk again...

[progticide]

At the beginning of this topic I had requested that Chamchas stay out....let Insaf answer this.

But some morons on this forum would just not allow any topic to be debated objectively especially when they find that their leader is cornered.

That is precisely what is happening here again. Every prog is posting some rubbish argument and trying to digress from the topic thereby allowing their leader to escape a intellectual humiliation.

For all those who think zakat is a matter only between the individual an Allah, read below:

Take alms from their wealth [O Prophet!] in order to cleanse them and purify them with it. (9:103)

Hence, if zakat was a matter between the individual and Allah only, then why would Allah command the Zakat to be paid to an authority, he would have commanded the individual to distribute it himself the way he chose to and to who he pleased to.

All those who are reading this post ask yourself why Insaf is evading answering on this topic.

[aziz]

insaaf has never and will never pay zakat or waajebat in his life ,its not meant for him ,so what he does is try and prevent others also from doing what he cannot not do,
how is it possible for allah to accept zakat from a snake, a haraam animal,,
thats why all this accountibility questions and all his other stupid queries arise, he knows in his heart he is wrong but in the end he is a snake

[Maqbool]

Can any one put some ligt on:
1) Why the kothar has stoped taking Zakat and switched over to Vazebat?
2) Why they are not allowing us to write the portion of Zakat by our selves and are taking lupsum amount from us? (Ones I have tried to ask Amil and insisted to write Zakat mount in front of me but he refused and asked me that if I does not have faith in Sayedna then don't give)

[guy_sam2005]

Can any one put some ligt on:
1) Why the kothar has stoped taking Zakat and switched over to Vazebat?
2) Why they are not allowing us to write the portion of Zakat by our selves and are taking lupsum amount from us? (Ones I have tried to ask Amil and insisted to write Zakat mount in front of me but he refused and asked me that if I does not have faith in Sayedna then don't give)

How come u didnt reply out ur wit that i have faith in syedna but ot in you.................

[progpigs]

well its vry clear dey cannot see the shaan of our dai! u must b knwing tht dawat got abaad and khush haal since the period of syedna taher saifuddin moula.. and syedna mohammed burhanuddin moula leading to the most prosperous era in history.. and as prosperity will rise these laeens will burn more and more and they will come up with all sort of fitnats as it happend during LAEEN JAFARS fitnat!

ppl like alzulfiqar.. insaaf... etc are sons of jafar (i wonder how many wives tht jafar had ) soo obviously they will follow the footsteps of their forefather

[SBM]

ppl like alzulfiqar.. insaaf... etc are sons of jafar

R U Talking about Jaffer Us Sadiq (RA) then how about you?

[labbaikyaHussain]

ppl like alzulfiqar.. insaaf... etc are sons of jafar

R U Talking about Jaffer Us Sadiq (RA) then how about you?

he is talking about jaffer who did fitnat in Ahmedabad which ultimately lead to killing of Kutbuddin shaeed(ra)

[stranger]

R U Talking about Jaffer Us Sadiq (RA) then how about you?

he is talking about jaffer who did fitnat in Ahmedabad which ultimately lead to killing of Kutbuddin shaeed(ra)

Oma,
And Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed (RA) was 32nd Dai of Dawoodi Bohra.

[porus]

Take alms from their wealth [O Prophet!] in order to cleanse them and purify them with it. (9:103)

Hence, if zakat was a matter between the individual and Allah only, then why would Allah command the Zakat to be paid to an authority, he would have commanded the individual to distribute it himself the way he chose to and to who he pleased to.

Let us separate an individual's responsibility for paying zakaat and the 'authority's' responsibility to distribute the collected zakaat.

Paying the zakaat is a matter between an individual and Allah alone. If an individual does not pay zakaat, the 'authority', other than Allah, cannot punish him or take any other action against him.

Progressives/Reformists, as far as I am aware, are not against handing over zakaat to the Dai. They have questions about the distribution and its accountability.

As some people have pointed out, zakaat is now normally lumped with wajebaat and therefore an individual does not know how much zakaat has been paid. 'Authority' does not distinguish this either.

Daimul Islam clearly states that zakaat cannot be used for personal use by members of the Ahlul bayt because it is haraam for them. Since Bohras consider Dai and his family 'spiritual' descendants of Ahlul bayt, no zakaat money should be used by them for their personal purposes. That is why Prophet removed a date from Imam Hasan's mouth which, as a child, he mistakenly took from a heap of sadaqaat dates.

The reason why Allah made it haraam for ahlul bayt to be beneficiaries of zakaat is concerned with accountability. And Prophet and Ali made sure that collection and disbursement of zakaat was fully accountable and transparent. Thus it is important that Sayedna's administration be equally transparent.

The reason why Prophet acted thus was to remove any suspicion of mishandling of zakaat to be removed from him and his ahlul bayt. Allah has made humans susceptible to suspicion and that may lead to doubt in their faith. Prophet was careful not to sow this seed of doubt among Muslims.

Susceptibility to doubt has not been removed from humans by Allah. It is thus the responsibility of the Dai's administration to be fully accountable and transparent just like Prophet and Ali.

If there is suspicion of injustice about handling zakaat, Allah insists that people should take steps to remove injustice. Thus withholding of zakaat under such suspicion may become incumbent upon followers of Allah.

[Muslim First]

lamebrainHussain wrote:
I am neither a bohri nor a reformist but i would like to give my opinion on this matter,

by lamebrainHussain on Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:41 pm
he is talking about jaffer who did fitnat in Ahmedabad which ultimately lead to killing of Kutbuddin shaeed(ra)

lamebrain

For a non bohra and non reformist it seems you have detailed knowledge of Bohra religion.

You laeen fitnati.

[progpigs]

lamebrainHussain wrote:
I am neither a bohri nor a reformist but i would like to give my opinion on this matter,

by lamebrainHussain on Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:41 pm
he is talking about jaffer who did fitnat in Ahmedabad which ultimately lead to killing of Kutbuddin shaeed(ra)

lamebrain

For a non bohra and non reformist it seems you have detailed knowledge of Bohra religion.

You laeen fitnati.

@Muslimfirst

Lol you call yourself a MUSLIM & treat your muslim brother like this???

wrote:

You laeen fitnati.

tch tch... sad!!

[progpigs]

ppl like alzulfiqar.. insaaf... etc are sons of jafar

R U Talking about Jaffer Us Sadiq (RA) then how about you?

No MADAM!! i aint talking about IMAM JAFFER US SADIQ (RA)

read my post properly.. if you cant understand simple english sentences then you shuld be in a school not in this FORUM!!

i wonder how & what you understand from the posts... and wat you reply to dem

[progpigs]

@progticide

seems the king (INSAAF) has unleashed his soldiers to derail from your questions as he himself cant reply.... coz he dusnt haf an answer to your question

[Maqbool]

Porus

Very well explained. I wish some intelligent abdes carry forward this with their views.