Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

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porus
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#31

Unread post by porus » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:44 pm

murtaza2152 wrote:
Either your mind has turned to Wahabi thought or Ilm has turned you to Jahil....
Wahhabis, like every body else on this earth, have a right to practise their religion. I object to their violent evangelism and instant attribution of kufr to all other sects of Islam and particularly the Shia.

Abdul Wahhab, the founder of Wahhabism, has written a book on Tawheed and is available on the Web. You will not find anything objectionable in what he writes in that book. Please read it and see if you can argue against it.

murtaza2152
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#32

Unread post by murtaza2152 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:48 pm

Atpresent I dont have Reference but will try....

Lets sum up our Discussion,
You say Sajada is an Entity only Attributed to God,
Can you give Quranic Ayat for that sayin Sajada is only for Allah...

My point Sajada to Hududs is NOT same as Sajada to ALLAH,
IT IS TAQRIMAN VA TAZIMAN, AND TAQBILUL ARD(KISING OF EARTH)...
SAJADA to them is because they are Reprepsentatives of God on Earth....

anajmi
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#33

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:51 pm

That is like saying, the sex that I have with my mistress is different from the sex that I have with my wife because when I am having sex with my wife, I am thinking about my mistress but when I am having sex with my mistress I am not thinking!!

Sorry, a very crude analogy.

profastian
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#34

Unread post by profastian » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:04 pm

anajmi wrote:That is like saying, the sex that I have with my mistress is different from the sex that I have with my wife because when I am having sex with my wife, I am thinking about my mistress but when I am having sex with my mistress I am not thinking!!

Sorry, a very crude analogy.
One should expect that from you. A better analogy is Farq and nafal namaz. Both are namaz, same actions and duas, but yet very different. The difference being the Niyat..

porus
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#35

Unread post by porus » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:10 pm

murtaza2152 wrote:Atpresent I dont have Reference but will try....

Lets sum up our Discussion,
You say Sajada is an Entity only Attributed to God,
Can you give Quranic Ayat for that sayin Sajada is only for Allah...

My point Sajada to Hududs is NOT same as Sajada to ALLAH,
IT IS TAQRIMAN VA TAZIMAN, AND TAQBILUL ARD(KISING OF EARTH)...
SAJADA to them is because they are Reprepsentatives of God on Earth....
I have said all I want to say on this subject. You will find references to Quran is previous discussions. Maybe you kiss the feet and kiss the earth but do not consider it a sujood that you perform for Allah. You know there may be something in what you say. I will give you a justification for continuing to prostrate in front of Dai.

You kiss his feet, right? You kiss the earth in front of him, right? But sajda to Allah is different. It is prostration with brow and tip of nose touching the ground. Or do you kiss the earth too. I think some do, but I am not sure. Vive la difference! :wink:

anajmi
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#36

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:22 pm

profastian wrote:One should expect that from you. A better analogy is Farq and nafal namaz. Both are namaz, same actions and duas, but yet very different. The difference being the Niyat..
There is one similarity between these namaz. They were both taught by the prophet (saw). Sajda to your Dai has nothing to do with the teachings of the prophet (saw).

accountability
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#37

Unread post by accountability » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:05 pm

Thanks Porus, I am not in india or pakistan, i did not know that it is a 400 + page book. But porus I dont remember reading these stanza in sadiq ali nasihat as murtaza has posted, sadiq ali's nasiaht was very compassionate dealt with day to day life.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#38

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:05 pm

porus wrote:
porus wrote: *********
sayf ul-huda na chehra ma hi rab no chhe namud
karje jhuki ne tu Sadiq Ali sujood
------------------------------
Rab (Allah) is displayed in the face of Sayf ul-Huda
Lower yourself in prostration (sujood) to him, O Sadiq Ali.

****************
(
This part of the verse refers to Sayedna Taher Sayfuddin, 51st Dai. Sadiq Ali was long dead when 51st Dai took over.

This suggests that the verse is doctored to serve any Dai. This is commonly done for most madehs and qaseedas for the Dai.

al Z,

When you find time, please compare the verses posted by Murtaza in the following thread with the 48er's rendition. This will give us some idea. You will most likely find 49 to 51 not mentioned. Sadiq Ali last wrote in the time of the 44th Dai.

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=5917
porus,

since murtuza hasnt provided page and paragraph no. it is difficult to search for the comparable verse in my copy. i would need some help.

murtaza2152
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#39

Unread post by murtaza2152 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:54 am

porus,

since murtuza hasnt provided page and paragraph no. it is difficult to search for the comparable verse in my copy. i would need some help
I have given Matlaa starting line of each Nasihat,, you can look into Fihrist Index and search

porus
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#40

Unread post by porus » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:55 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote: porus,

since murtuza hasnt provided page and paragraph no. it is difficult to search for the comparable verse in my copy. i would need some help.
al Z,

In my copy, there is an index of first lines at the back of the book. Murtaza's post includes first line of the naseehats in the line called al-matla'a. Thus it was easy for me to locate the verses he posted. They are all there.

Having said that , I do not think it is worth your time to pursue this comparison. I do not believe it would be any different in 48er's version. And as we have seen, abdes will not want to abandon sajda to Dai and his family members and in fact, in ignorance of the Quran, will put the spin on these verses they have been brain-washed with.

accountability,

Nasehats we learned as children were brief selections of these naseehats compiled in short books called 'Naseehat'. I too do not recall any verses teaching us to do sujood to ghayr Allah. Community has sunk knee-deep in shirk and is sinking deeper.

Bigger
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#41

Unread post by Bigger » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:46 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
porus wrote: This part of the verse refers to Sayedna Taher Sayfuddin, 51st Dai. Sadiq Ali was long dead when 51st Dai took over.

This suggests that the verse is doctored to serve any Dai. This is commonly done for most madehs and qaseedas for the Dai.

al Z,

When you find time, please compare the verses posted by Murtaza in the following thread with the 48er's rendition. This will give us some idea. You will most likely find 49 to 51 not mentioned. Sadiq Ali last wrote in the time of the 44th Dai.

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=5917
porus,

since murtuza hasnt provided page and paragraph no. it is difficult to search for the comparable verse in my copy. i would need some help.

Syfulhuda here is Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin. Not syedna Taher saifuddin

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#42

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:50 pm

porus,

i did check both those verses quoted which is being used by the cunning clergy to further their agenda and exploit the gullible and immature of intellect.

the first comes from naseehat 6th, verse 31st - the last of this naseehat with the matlaa' "ek pal tu mat visarje...". the verse is exactly the same with no change in wordings.

the second verse comes from naseehat 11th, verse 41st. once again exactly the same with no change in wordings.

the second naseehat being discussed above, viz. naseehat 11th, is in fact almost entirely fulsome in praise of the 43rd dai saifudeen. many of the verses border on sycophancy, they are so highly exaggerated and flowery in their lavishing of compliments on that dai. in my opinion it is more than likely that sadiqali was under the patronage of this dai and commissioned to write these naseehats. there is no doubt about the artistic prowess of sadiqali, his mastery over the language and material is excellent. but his resorting to such analogies and simile's is most definitely shirk.

one cannot even condone it under the usual 'poetic license' granted to shayars and those of similar ilk, as these verses have a religious content where one needs to exercise extra caution not to cross the boundaries of idolatry and the common human traits of sycophancy towards one's benefactors.

i have referred to this book after a very long time. going through it again to verify this information has given me a sour taste.

porus
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#43

Unread post by porus » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:49 pm

al Z,

I just read the naseehat whose matla'a is "koi na maa.n na pet thi sikha huwa insaan chhe" . In my copy it is naseehat # 35 and it has 35 verses.

It is generally an excellent naseehat. His eulogy for Imams and Dai is confined to the 4 verses before the last one. In this naseehat, he does not mention sujood to Dai or Imam. However, in the verse that Murtaza posted, Sadiq Ali says that all 15 sajdas we perform during tilaawat of Quran are dedicated to Imam Tayyib ("te taraf maqsood chhe quran ni jhumla sujood, naam chhe te muhib ijaad nu Tayyib Imam" ).

In the following three verses, he goes a bit overboard in praise of the Dai Abdeali Safuddin, but he is much more restrained than those who write current madehs.

murtaza2152
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#44

Unread post by murtaza2152 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:40 pm

Porus quoted
In the following three verses,
he goes a bit overboard in
praise of the Dai Abdeali
Safuddin, but he is much more
restrained than those who
write current madehs.
@Porus,
Can you give some examples of current Madeh, as per your claim,, (other than Sajda tuje wajib hai)

Hussain_KSA
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#45

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:35 pm

The latest madahas by Yamani are best example of shirk. Porus has quoted on this forum earliar. If you search you can find it in details.

murtaza2152
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#46

Unread post by murtaza2152 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:20 am

These are some lines on Tawheed by Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb :::


Admin plz post it....

progticide
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#47

Unread post by progticide » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:32 am

I know this observation would again be met with the same criticism and refutation. But it is far more important that I illustrate the fallacy of your thoughts, practices and beliefs. You accept it or reject it is a matter of your conscious choice.

On this forum, I have repeatedly come across the threads on the nasihats of Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb, one of the renowned and revered hudud of the Fatemi Dawat during the 19th century. Participants (especially progressives) have used his nasihats in numerous places on this forum to prove their point of argument.

So what’s the big deal in that?

Someone on this forum has quoted his nasihats to emphasize that Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb could see the future better than even the Dai and thus he foretold of the ending of the chain of Dai-e-Mutlaq after the 46th Dai. This someone has elevated the position of Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb above the position of Dai and uses his nasihats to reinforce his argument that the office of Dai e Mutlaq ended with the 46th Dai. This someone is progs favourite protagonist Ms. Mubarak (Liar). For more details you may read some of Mubarak’s exemplary works on this forum.

Another so-called champion of Progressive movement Porus (Porous), an outspoken advocate of the reformist lobby on this forum, always there to defend Mubarak for all her fallacies, uses the nasihats of the same Syedi Sadiq Ali sahib, to deduce that Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb is a Mushriq (Nauzobillah). For more details read the first post in this thread.

So now all you progs are left with a dichotomy. Or should I call it “Dharam Sankat”.

Dharam Sankat not in the sense that you have to choose between Syedi Sadiq Ali’s greatness and infedilty. Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb’s eminence does not need a certificate of approval from misguided individuals calling themselves progressive/reformist etc. Dharam Sankat because one of these two prog heroes i.e. Mubarak & Porus, is wrong and thereby misguiding the gullible progressive youngsters.

Ask me, and I am confident that they are both liars and cheats, scratching each other’s back whenever one is feeling a little itchy. But here, it is not about what Dawoodi Bohras think about them. The question is what the progs think about them.

Frankly, I shall not be surprised by your ingenuity if you progs consider both of them correct. Afterall, you have accepted so much rubbish arguments and irrational and false doctrines that anything could be acceptable to you.

But, for a change, as a starter, maybe you would want to contemplate about who between Mubarak and Porus deserves first condemnation.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#48

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:22 am

thanks pesticide for your pseudo scholarly attempts at stirring a sham intelligent debate.

the person who above all deserves universal condemnation and disgust is the ex-syedna for being the one most responsible for taking this community astray, and the first one to use it most ruthlessly and shamelessly to enrich himself and his vast family, by twisting islam and perverting our deen. the next on the list is his son for cementing all the loot and tyranny and committing even more shirk and kufr. next come people like you who defend such crooks and charlatans and are an obvious cog in their machinery of oppression and deception.

forget sadik ali, he is a but a mere straw in the blizzard of the kothar. lets talk about the billions looted by the last 2 syednas and their families from the community and secretly invested in over 40 different countries. let us talk of the millions in bribes they regularly pay to corrupt officials around the world, but esp. in india, to manipulate the media and the law in their favor. let us talk about the outright shirk and kufr they encourage in their followers while paying lip service to islam.

and lest you forget, this is a free and fearless forum. not everyone who comes here is an official reformist, neither is everyone with reformist leanings the official mouthpiece of the reformist movement, unlike you who is an official pest-icide sent by the kothar.

progticide
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#49

Unread post by progticide » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:55 am

This is nothing but another cowardly act of digressing from the subject and copy-pasting same old rubbish to divert attention of the participants on the forum.

The question is who between the two infidels & liars i.e. Mubarak and Porous, should be condemned first by the reformist.

If you have not understood the underlying premise of this argument then read my above post again. It is not rare for brainless idiots like zulfiqar to post nonsense and worthless arguments on every other post regardless of the topic under discussion and prevent a fair debate to be conducted on any subject.

For all those who have missed the question that I have raised please read my above post (which this moron zulfiqar intends to over-shadow with his crap and the Admin has so unbiasedly decided to keep posted like he does in every other thread in the interest of the freedom and fairness of the forum) and judge for yourself whether the query raised is justified or not.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#50

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:56 am

pesticide - aka kothari agent,

do you think that the members of this forum are fools like you? your attempts to cast divisions between members here are so blatantly obvious that even a blind idiot with an IQ of 32 wearing dark glasses will see it in on a moonless night! ply your 2-bit politics elsewhere.

as for who is to be condemned, let us also conduct a poll for the abdes, who constantly need things to be condemned and laanats uttered in wholesale 24/7 to justify their sorry ass existence. let us impartially judge who is more worthy of condemnation in the kothari mafia - syedna, mukasir or maazoon?

now that is a definitely much more intellectually challenging subject than this obsessive and unhealthy fixation of yours with sadiq ali.

murtaza2152
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#51

Unread post by murtaza2152 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:58 am

Admin Plz post my Images :

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

marabu
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#52

Unread post by marabu » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:55 pm

Dear brother Murtaza 2152
Yes i know i should have learned arabic and dawaat ne zabaan but one cannot teach old dog new tricks.Please translate your message in common language for many of us which is .....English

salaams
marabu in name only.

yusuftopiwala
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#53

Unread post by yusuftopiwala » Wed May 25, 2011 4:04 am

Dear All,

I am from 48'ers sect. I believe & follow Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Naseehats. I can send a copy of the Naseehat to anyone who can give his name and postal address.

In Quaran please go through Aayat 7 - 11, here God (Khuda) is ordering the Angels (Malayakats) to do Sajda to Maulana Aadam Saheb. Except Eblees (Shaitan) all the Angels performed Sajda to Maulana Aadam Saheb.

Therefore my understanding is according to above Aayat, anyone who does not perform Sajda to the Present Saheb-ul-Waqt, then he is follower of Eblees.

We believe in Silsila i.e. lineage from Maulana Aadam Saheb to the present day Saheb-ul-Waqt. At any point of time there is Saheb-ul-Waqt. We call them with different Titles (Laqab) Nabi / Imam / Dai-ul-Mutlak or Vali-uz-Zaman

labbaikyaHussain
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#54

Unread post by labbaikyaHussain » Wed May 25, 2011 4:39 am

yusuftopiwala wrote:Dear All,

I am from 48'ers sect. I believe & follow Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Naseehats. I can send a copy of the Naseehat to anyone who can give his name and postal address.

In Quaran please go through Aayat 7 - 11, here God (Khuda) is ordering the Angels (Malayakats) to do Sajda to Maulana Aadam Saheb. Except Eblees (Shaitan) all the Angels performed Sajda to Maulana Aadam Saheb.

Therefore my understanding is according to above Aayat, anyone who does not perform Sajda to the Present Saheb-ul-Waqt, then he is follower of Eblees.

We believe in Silsila i.e. lineage from Maulana Aadam Saheb to the present day Saheb-ul-Waqt. At any point of time there is Saheb-ul-Waqt. We call them with different Titles (Laqab) Nabi / Imam / Dai-ul-Mutlak or Vali-uz-Zaman

salaam.

who is your current religious head? and do u have any website?

and also do u call him dai mutlaq or vali uz zamaan?

yusuftopiwala
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#55

Unread post by yusuftopiwala » Thu May 26, 2011 3:06 am

Valekum-us-Salam,

1. We donot have website of our sect.
2. Title of our Present Saheb-ul-Waqt is Vali-uz-Zaman.

labbaikyaHussain
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#56

Unread post by labbaikyaHussain » Thu May 26, 2011 4:12 am

yusuftopiwala wrote:Valekum-us-Salam,

1. We donot have website of our sect.
2. Title of our Present Saheb-ul-Waqt is Vali-uz-Zaman.

may I know name of your vali uz zamaan and where he resides? where can i find more information about your sect?

stranger
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#57

Unread post by stranger » Thu May 26, 2011 4:44 am

yusuftopiwala,

are you from one of Bohra sect, as name suggest ?
So, whats the history of ur sect and from where and why, you have splited from mainstream ?
we would like to know.

yusuftopiwala
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#58

Unread post by yusuftopiwala » Thu May 26, 2011 5:28 am

We (Atba-e-Malak / 48'ers) have faith and believe in all the Nabi Sahebs thereafter Imams from Maulana Hasan bin Maulana Ali Saheb to 21st Imam Maulana Tayeb Saheb and thereafter Dai-ul-Mutlaqs from Sayedna Zoeb Saheb to 46th Dai-ul-Mutlaq Sayedna Mohammed Badruddin Saheb up to the Hijri year 1256 (A.D. 1840). In the Hijri year 1256, the “Amar” passed into seclusion and the four Sahebs who carried on the “Amar” in seclusion are called as Mumallekeens one after the other from the year 1256 upto the year 1309 Hijri (A.D. 1891) were: (1) Sayedna Rehmat Malak Saheb (2) Sayedna Mohammadali Saheb (3) Sayedna Hebat-e-llah Saheb and (4) Sayedna Adamji Tayebji Saheb.

In the Hijri year 1309 (A.D. 1891) a Saheb of the name Maulana Abdulhusain Jiwajee Saheb announced in Bombay that “Daur-ul-Satar” was coming to its close, and that the “Amar” had passed on to Him and He proclaimed Himself Hujjat-e-Qayem and took the appellation of Maulana Malak Saheb. The Hujjat-e-Qayem is the one in the spiritual hierarchy who precedes the Qayem and works for announcing the advent of the Qayem. Maulana Malak Saheb announced that his period as Hujjat-e-Qayem would be of 10 years duration and called it the Akher-uz-Zaman (i.e. the last of the Daur-us-Satar) after which the Qayem would manifest Himself, and the said Qayem would be the Qayem-ala-Zikre-His-Salam according to the religious texts of the Dawoodi Bohra. He caused his period to commence and started Abedi San (year).

Maulana Malak Saheb passed away at Kuhari (Korhadi) a village near Nagpur, on 26th September 1899 (22nd Jamadil-Ula of the Abedi 9th year). He was ill for some time, and when His illness took a more serious turn, Maulana Malak Saheb directed the Kothari Saheb Sheikh Hasanali Ebrahimji Saheb on 24th September, 1899 (the 20th of Jamadil-Ula of the Abedi 9th year) to make preparation for his journey to Kuhari. A short distance from Kuhari He caused His carriage to stop and when all his followers had gathered around him he declared “Sheikh Abdulkader Ebrahimji, Kheti officer is the Vakil of My Mal and Milkat”. Maulana Malak Saheb thus nominated Maulana Abdulkar Ebrahimji Chimthanawala Saheb as his spiritual successor in accordance with and in fulfillment of his desire to appoint the Vakil to carry on the “Amar” after Him as expressed by Him in the discourse delivered earlier and referred to aforesaid. The words: “Mal and Milkar” referred to the spiritual heritage of Maulana Malak Saheb. Maulana Malak Saheb passed away on the second day following the aforesaid declaration.

Our further lineage is:
Maulana Abdeali Ebrahimji Saheb
Maulana Razak Maulana Abdeali Saheb
Maulana Imdadali Maulana Abdeali Saheb
our Present Vali-us-Zaman Saheb is Maulana Tayeb Maulana Razak Saheb

labbaikyaHussain
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Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#59

Unread post by labbaikyaHussain » Thu May 26, 2011 6:19 am

What is the total population of your community? and where does your religious head resides?

yusuftopiwala
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Syedi Sadiq Ali Saheb's Nasihat

#60

Unread post by yusuftopiwala » Thu May 26, 2011 6:23 am

1. Our total population is about 200 followers.
2. We are based out at Nagpur