Kitaab ul Himma on Sajada

[porus]

Well then, to everyone’s surprise, here’s the truth. The book Mausam e Bahar was not even remotely authored by Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin saheb. The author of this book is some Shaikh Muhammad Ali Ibn Mulla Jiwabhai.

Not surprising at all! The author of Mausam-e-bahar has been previously mentioned right here on this board:

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... usum#p7750

Mubarak had mentioned that the 43rd Dai had prohibited seena-zaani. I notice that this was also mentioned in "Mullahs on the Mainframe", on page 46. In the same book, on page 49, the author of Mausam-e-Bahar is named as Muhammad Ali ibn Jiwabhai. Mubarak's post may have given the impression that it was authored by the 43rd Dai.

[progticide]

Well then, to everyone’s surprise, here’s the truth. The book Mausam e Bahar was not even remotely authored by Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin saheb. The author of this book is some Shaikh Muhammad Ali Ibn Mulla Jiwabhai.

Not surprising at all! The author of Mausam-e-bahar has been previously mentioned right here on this board:

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... usum#p7750

Mubarak had mentioned that the 43rd Dai had prohibited seena-zaani. I notice that this was also mentioned in "Mullahs on the Mainframe", on page 46. In the same book, on page 49, the author of Mausam-e-Bahar is named as Muhammad Ali ibn Jiwabhai. Mubarak's post may have given the impression that it was authored by the 43rd Dai.

Stupid Porus (should rather rename himself as Porous) thinks that he has smartly defended Liar Mubarak. Actually you shot yourself in the foot with your above reply.

Your above reply only double strengthens my argument and proves my point that you and other liars like Insaf and Mubarak etc. are only misguiding and misleading the reformist fellowship with wrongly attributing books and their deceitful lies. If this was not true, then liar Mubarak would not have the audacity to repeat the same lie over and over again in various post by mentioning Mausam e Bahar as being authored by Syedna Abdeali saheb.

[porus]

pesticide,

Mubarak did not lie. He is correct in stating that the 43rd Dai had prohibited seena-zani. Mausam-e-bahar, authored by Jiwabhai, merely reported it.

Try spraying less pesticide on to your brain!

[Al Zulfiqar]

porus,

a drowning man clutches at straws. pesticide is trying desperately by hook and by crook to find some imagined lie, so that then the entire argument against seena zani can be thrown out.

this is a typical abde trait. when cornered, divert the topic, if that doesnt work, resort to gaali galoch, if that falls flat, then invent lies, or search for some obscure connection between a doctored version of scriptures and today's kufr practised by syedna, bring in irrelevant references, and when all else is lost, make personal attacks and heckle.

fortunately this is a website. if it was a face to face conversation, they would physically attack and get violent. i have been openly threatened on this forum dozens of times by frustrated abdes who, when they had no leg to stand on, did what comes best to them, utter dire warnings that if they could actually find me they would 'take care of me'...

[porus]

Al Zulfiqar,

You are of course 100% correct. Abdes, having been obliterated by Sayedna Qazi Noman on whom they relied upon for their defense of shirk, they are now desperately resorting to the only trick they have up their sleeves. Character assassination.

Nobody leads or follows any reformist. Let honest, clear and independent thinking lead the way.

[incredible]

pesticide,

Mubarak did not lie. He is correct in stating that the 43rd Dai had prohibited seena-zani. Mausam-e-bahar, authored by Jiwabhai, merely reported it.

Try spraying less pesticide on to your brain!

how come some dai prohibit seena zani when seena zani is practised from the timre of imammain.

[porus]

how come some dai prohibit seena zani when seena zani is practised from the timre of imammain.

Leave this thread for discussion on Himma. If you wish to discuss the history of seena-zani, open up a new thread.

[Aarif]

But one thing bothers me, why does Syedna want some one to do sajda before him, we cant say that it is not syedna who wants it, because he is knowingly accepting it and approving it and kind of demanding it. Does it please him to make people little before him.

A/C: I believe this has a lot to do with controlling his followers. People who bow down before you will always obey you. If bohras are allowed to raise their heads they might also start raising their voice which would be worst for kothar and syedna. Hence this is a good way of controlling people and also preventing them from revolting.

[murtaza2152]

@Porus
I believe that Sajada is only for Allah,,, and Taqbilul Ard is for Imam or Dai.....
Today all muminneens do Taqbilul Ard Taziman Takriban illal Allah to our 52nd Dail Mutlaq due to his high position in Earthly hierarchy.

Imam is in maqam of Allah on Earth........("وكل منهم – أي الأئمة – في زمانه مقام الله بقيامه مقام النبي الذي هو القائم مقام الله")
and so as the Dai in
Imam's satar........

[Muslim First]

Imam is in maqam of Allah on Earth........("وكل منهم – أي الأئمة – في زمانه مقام الله بقيامه مقام النبي الذي هو القائم مقام الله")

And there is a Aya in Qur'an saying "There will be Imam from Progeny of Ali actinh as maqam of Allah on Earth"

And there is a Hadith from Prophet saying "Imam is in maqam of Allah on Earth" and he will be always from "progeny of Ali and Fatrma"

May be it is in Bohra Qur'an with hidden Imam!!!!

And may be Murtu has seen it in his dreams

[Muslim First]

Any reason why Imam is in satar........?

[porus]

I believe that Sajada is only for Allah,,, and Taqbilul Ard is for Imam or Dai.....
Today all muminneens do Taqbilul Ard Taziman Takriban illal Allah to our 52nd Dail Mutlaq due to his high position in Earthly hierarchy.

That is good. Now that you agree that sajda is only for Allah, I will not belabor the point.

Let us avoid using Arabic in English sentences as most people using this forum do not understand Arabic.

Let me rewrite your sentence "Today all muminneens do Taqbilul Ard Taziman Takriban illal Allah to our 52nd Dail Mutlaq due to his high position in Earthly hierarchy." as follows:

Today all mumineen kiss the ground (before the Dai) for respect for him (the Dai), and to feel close to Allah. This is because of the Dai's high position in earthly hierarchy.

You must confirm if this accurately describes what mumineen do.

Imam is in maqam of Allah on Earth........("مقام النبي الذي هوالقائم مقام الله وكل منهم
– أي الأئمة – في زمانه مقام الله ") and so as the Dai in Imam's satar........

Imam is not in maqam of Allah. Nothing in the entire universe is in maqam of Allah. Allah is in His own maqam. That is the message of Quran's unrelenting, uncompromising and even fierce monotheism (Tawheeed).

Your translation is incorrect. Let me offer a better one.

مقام النبي الذي هوالقائم مقام الله وكل منهم – أي الأئمة – في زمانه مقام الله بقيامه

Maqam (abode) of Nabi is that he stands in awe of Allah's presence. And every one of them (anbiya) - even Imams - in his time abided in awe of Allah's presence.

[Doctor]

Porus bhai,

I have experienced similar with Aqs.

In reference to chest beating (which Burhanuddin sahab/Shabab group incorrectly refers as "Matam"). I presented Sayyedina va Aaka va Molana Abd-a-Ali Saifuddin (r) book reference where he categorically commands all his amils and mumineens not to do chest beating by hands or tools in the name of Imam Hussain (a.s.).

But Aqs responded with intellectually dishonesty on above.

So, it seems some of the abde-Burhanuddin sahab here (on this forum) are intellectually dishonest.

Mubarak, you are a liar and a cheat. You have lied to your fellow prog followers and admirers who find your rubbish post so interesting.

Let me prove my point...

According to you, Mausam e Bahar, the book that you have quoted in your post in the topic "Matam, Aaka Abd-a-ali saifuddin (R.A.) v/s Burhanuddin "dated Sat April 03, 2010, 3:50 am, that this book Mausam e Bahar is authored by Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin sahib, and you have used this book to refute the actions of present Dai-e-Mutlaq Syedna Burhanuddin sahib (TUS) and tried to impress your idiot fellow progs with your nonsense. I am sure you are referring to the same book in the above post again.

Well then, to everyone’s surprise, here’s the truth. The book Mausam e Bahar was not even remotely authored by Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin saheb. The author of this book is some Shaikh Muhammad Ali Ibn Mulla Jiwabhai.

Anyone can make a simple web search and find out if what I said is incorrect. Let me help the reformist with a website dear to them http://www.dbrjna.org/id14.html

Now, Mubarak, don’t give the same lameduck excuse which you progs are so used to that you mentioned Syedna Abdeali saheb’s name by mistake and that you were only quoting to a portion of this book allegedly attributed to Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin saheb with no proof of authenticity and in your excitement to post nonsense and insult for the present Dai-e-Mutlaq you forgot to mention the real author’s name. Because, if this was a mistake you would not have mentioned about the same book again and attributed it to Syedna Abdeali Saheb again in this post. This means you are purposely and deliberately misguiding your fellow progs who think you are so educated and knowledgable.

So now we all know the intellectual soundness and religious truthfulness of this liar Mubarak.

Brother Progticide,

The dawat book "Mosame Bahar" is written by Muhammad All ibn Jiwabhai and not by Syyedna Abd a Ali Saifuddin. My writing of later as this book author was my mistake. I tender my humble and sincere regrets for this. Thank you for correcting me.

However, I have not done any cheating as you incorrectly accuse me. The book, "Mosame Bahar" refers to letter authored by Molana va Aaka Abd a Ali Saifuddin (r.a.) whose details are mention below, in this letter Aaka Abd-a-Ali Saifuddin categorically orders to not to do chest beating.

Burhanuddin sahab, Kothar and Progticide cheats mumineen by pursuing them to act against the expressed and categorical command of Aaka Abd-a-Ali Saifuddin to not to do "chaatee kutwoo".

The Dawat’s book “Mosame-Bahaar” has reported on the subject of “Principles of the Dawat System” vide Para XI page 340 giving reference of a letter written by Syyedna Abde-ali Saifuddin s/o Syyedna Abdul Tayyeb Zakiuddin Saheb (Surat, 12th Shabaan-ul-Karim 1222 A. H.) to his Amils. Sayedna Saheb had given ten Baab (instructions) to his Amils regarding adhering to the Shariyat-e-Mohammadi, to be humble, polite, just, honest and accountable to Mumineen under them.

In Baab 6 of the letter he had stated as under:-
“Apni majlis Rasulullah (A.S.) ni majlis, apno darbar Amirul mumineen (S.A.) no darbar, apna Moaseroon (Jamat na loko) sab na sab As’habe-Safinat ane Arbabe-Vaqar howa joiye. Etle majlis per apno roub shaamil rahe. Har aam majlis ma nahi, fakat fazil ane kamil ashra ni majliso ma hee girya (rowa) ni ejazat chhe. Seena-zani (chaatee kutwoo) haram chhe. Apni seerat auwaliya ni seerat, ane apni aadat Aadate-kiram howi joiye. Koyee lamha shugule-elahi si faarig naa rehwoo joiye.
Moharram ni majlis maahi saghla mumineen ni aankho ashko thi tar thai. Koyee maatha ya seena per, firqa- Asna-Asharee ni tarah hath na mare. Firqa-mazkoor na misal majlise-Husain (A.S.) maa seena zani kari beadabee naa kare.”

Burhanuddin sahab accepting Sajda from his follower.


Sheikh Ahmed Ali Raj sahab's comment on this unislamic act of Burhanuddin sahab.

[progticide]

Doctor, Dentist, Vet, Mubarak or whatever you are….

If you have objection to sajada for Dai, don’t do it. No one is enforcing it on you to perform sajada.
If you have objection to Matam (from whatever source you can justify this argument) don’t perform Matam. No one is enforcing it on you.
If you have objection to being called Dawoodi Bohra, don’t call yourself as one. Join any other community whose name you like or start one with your own name if that excites you. Who is enforcing it on you to remain with us.

And please don’t submit material and articles of people with dubious backgrounds as proof for others to accept. Ahmad ali Raj is one of those who enjoyed the fruits of dawat for more than four decades under Mukaddas Syedna Taher Saifuddin (RA) and when things started to look bleak for him and other 3 ustads under the present Dai-e-Mutlaq they joined the reformist movement. Did you ever bother to find out what was Ahmad ali doing during his services under the Mukaddas Syedna, and why did not revolt against the so-called unIslamic practices during this period of four decades. Do some research on this and kindly keep that work to yourself upon completion.

If you are finding that everything that Dawoodi Bohras are doing is unIslamic and against the teachings of the Holy Quran and Prophet's Sunnah, then why are you torturing your soul by being in the company of Dawoodi Bohras. From all your post, it is very clear that you have inclination for Wahhabism. So why are you wasting your time here. You are one confused soul and you are attempting to confuse your gullible admirers too.

[incredible]

Doctor,

whats the name of this book?

and yeah progticide is correct,why this guy ahmed Ali didnt oppose these sajjdas for almost 4 decades?even a simple muslim knows sajda is just for Allah.

[Muslim First]

From all your post, it is very clear that you have inclination for Wahhabism.

Mubarak a wahabi?

He is a ShiA I do not know what persuation.

[Muslim First]

and yeah progticide is correct,why this guy ahmed Ali didnt oppose these sajjdas for almost 4 decades?even a simple muslim knows sajda is just for Allah.

Are you guys Muslim?

[Conscíous]

Nope.. We are "banyani" Muslims, what ever that means

[Kaka Akela]

Sorry I had posted this: under a wrong topic, this is where it belongs

Abdes are all lying when they say their sajda to Dai is Taqbeel ul Ard or for ta'zeem and Takreem. Because when Arzi to Syedna is written, right on top after his name and titles etc and before the Arzi they write," Alf Sajdaat il Ubudiyah". Now can any abde tell me what does that mean? My Arabic is not that great but I know the meaning of word Ubudiya is," prayer or ibadat". Also tell me why "Alf"? which means 1000, isn't one sajda enough?
One of the definitions of Imaan is to give some one respect according to his rutba, a Mulla, a shaikh, an Aaalim according to his knowledge etc. etc no qhuloo(less) or no Ghuloo (excess) is allowed, then why when speeches are made or in other write-ups they say," Hazrat Imamiyah" for a Dai who is not an Imam? isn't that Ghuloo? Why doesn't he stop the people comitting such Ghuloo? Specially when he claims that he knows that Imam is alive and well and he gets signals from him. Or he knows that Imam's existence is a farce and myth created so Dai doesn't have to take the blame for wrong decisions. the mind and iman of a thinking man is blown to pieces with the doublespeak that goes on in our religion.

[ghulam muhammed]

Ahmad ali Raj is one of those who enjoyed the fruits of dawat for more than four decades under Mukaddas Syedna Taher Saifuddin (RA) and when things started to look bleak for him and other 3 ustads under the present Dai-e-Mutlaq they joined the reformist movement.

It would be interesting to know this from the pro-syedna bohra's viewpoint, can you please elaborate.

[incredible]

@doc

why this guy ahmed Ali didnt oppose these sajjdas for almost 4 decades?

[stranger]

Are you guys Muslim?

who are you to question this ?

[murtaza2152]

These are some Aayats on Sajada in Holy Quran :::

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 41 Surah Fusselat verse 37:

Do not do ‘sajdah’ to the sun and the moon, but do ‘sajdah’ to Allah, Who created them, if you really are indeed His worshippers.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 13 Surah Raad verse 15:

For it is Allah Alone before whom everything in the heavens and the earth do ‘sajdah’ willingly or un-willingly. Even the shadows of all things do ‘sajdah’ to Allah in the morning and evening!

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 16 Surah Nahl verse 48-50:

And don’t they observe anything created by Allah: how it casts its shadow right and left, doing its ‘sajdah’ to Allah Alone? Thus do all things express their humility to Allah. All the animate creation in the heavens and the earth and all the angels do ‘sajdah’ in adoration to Allah Alone. They do not show any arrogance at all, and fear their Lord, Who is above them, and do whatever they are bidden by Allah.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 39 Surah Zumur verse 2:

So worship Allah Alone, making your religion His exclusively. Beware! Religion is the exclusive Right of Allah

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 22 Surah Hajj verse 77:

O you who believe, do ‘rukoo’ and ‘sajdah’ to Allah Alone, worship Allah Alone, and do righteous deeds. It may be that you attain true success.




From this Aayats ,,, Nowhere in Quran Sajada of Respect has been banned or branded as Haraam or Shirk.
which Syedna Qazi Noman talked in Himma ...

[murtaza2152]

In this context ,,,,founded interesting post of Bro Qiyam ...

Orignally posted by Bro Qiyam ....
----------------------------------
Let me provide some reference provided by a sunni alim:

No where in the Quran Sajada of Respect has been banned or branded as Haraam or Shirk.

1.)The first act of Sajada was performed by angels to Adam Nabi(saw)and the one who was branded as Mardood is an open history.

2)The second one quoted in Quran is the sajada of respect to Yusuf Nabi(saw) by his brothers.

3)Third one is of Bani Israel on the doorstep of Jerusalem.

4)Fourth one is of the respect of Saleh Nabi's (as) she camel.

5)Running in between Safa and Marwah has been termed as Shaeeril Allah (signs of Allah)in respect of Bibi Hajira (ra).

6)Narrated by Hazrath Buraida:
A bedoin requested Rasul Allah (saws) to show him a miracle (mujiza). Rasul Allah (saws) asked "Go and tell that tree that Rasul Allah (saws) has asked u to come". The tree left
its root and came dragging its trunk and said "Asalamu Alaika Ya Rasul Allah (saw)" and it went back when ordered so.

On seeing this the bedoin wanted to do Sajada to which Rasul Allah (saws) replied "If I would have given permission to do Sajada, it would have been to a women in respect of her husband". On hearing this the bedoin requested "at least can I kiss the holy feet and Hands" and the permission was granted.

Also the disciple of Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Mufti Muhammed Shafi has quoted this hadith in his book "Jawahir ul Fiqha" and quoted Allama Shaami as the source and added that this hadith is "Sahih". Not only that Mufti Shafi has included a chapter on "kissing of hands and feets" in this book from "Tirmizi,Nisai Ibn E Maja and Abu Dawood".

Narrated Safwan:
"2 Yahudis came to see the 9 signs of Nubuwat after which they seeked permission and kissed the hands and feets of Rasul Allah (saws) (Tirmizi).

Narrated Zarreh:
"When we alighted in Medina we kissed the holy hands and feets of Rasul Allah (saws)
(Abu Dawood, Mishkwat).

Muhammed Yusuf son of Maulvi Muhammed Ilyas (founder of TAblighi Jamaat) stated in his book "Hayat us Sahaba", Imam Hasan(as) naratted : Talha bin Baraa came to see Rasul Allah (saws), he kissed the holy feets".

All of the sajada done in the references were done out of respect for that person and as a sukhar to Allah for bringing that person in to this world.


Refer --- http://dawoodi-bohras.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000294.html

[master.b00t]

murtaza aa doctor saheb batave chhe ke .... gujrati ma kehvat chhe ke "khale ducha ne darwaza ughada'

aa tamara master na darwaza ughada rahi gaya chhe e tamne doctor saheb batave chhe.

[Doctor]

These are some Aayats on Sajada in Holy Quran :::

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 41 Surah Fusselat verse 37:

Do not do ‘sajdah’ to the sun and the moon, but do ‘sajdah’ to Allah, Who created them, if you really are indeed His worshippers.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 13 Surah Raad verse 15:

For it is Allah Alone before whom everything in the heavens and the earth do ‘sajdah’ willingly or un-willingly. Even the shadows of all things do ‘sajdah’ to Allah in the morning and evening!

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 16 Surah Nahl verse 48-50:

And don’t they observe anything created by Allah: how it casts its shadow right and left, doing its ‘sajdah’ to Allah Alone? Thus do all things express their humility to Allah. All the animate creation in the heavens and the earth and all the angels do ‘sajdah’ in adoration to Allah Alone. They do not show any arrogance at all, and fear their Lord, Who is above them, and do whatever they are bidden by Allah.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 39 Surah Zumur verse 2:

So worship Allah Alone, making your religion His exclusively. Beware! Religion is the exclusive Right of Allah

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 22 Surah Hajj verse 77:

O you who believe, do ‘rukoo’ and ‘sajdah’ to Allah Alone, worship Allah Alone, and do righteous deeds. It may be that you attain true success.



From this Aayats ,,, Nowhere in Quran Sajada of Respect has been banned or branded as Haraam or Shirk.
which Syedna Qazi Noman talked in Himma ...

Murtaza bhai,

In the photo above, Bade Mulla Burhanuddin sahab is accepting sajda of the type meant only for Allah. So, Bade Mulla Burhanuddin sahab is guilty to act against all the Quran aayat that you mentioned in your above quote.

[Conscíous]

Doctor, I'm sorry to say this, but you are starting to get a little delusion & got this all wrong.. syedna saheb is only playing rock-paper-scissors with his slaves and this is how they play it..

On a serious note, I get the shivers watching this picture.. they all look like zombies apart from the guy in black, who looks like the one staging this bollywood horror act..
And the facile expression syedna saheb has, looks a lot like he is under hypnosis, and the way he has fist tight and doing the hammering motion, is so scare

they have surely done a great job, if this photo shot was to mimic the egyptian farrows,,


Burhanuddin sahab accepting Sajda from his follower.

[porus]

Murtaza,

Which type of sajda is shown in the accompanying photo?

Sajdat as-shukr, sajdat at-ta'azeem, or sajdat al-ubudiyya?

Or is it taqbeel al-ard, taqbeel ar-rijl (qadam bosi), or taqbeel al-fakhdh (raan bosi)? [raan is thigh in Urdu]

After you have answered the above question, please say how the Quran distinguishes between different types of sajda.

For your information, the word sajda is from root س ج د . In the Quran, there are 81 different ayats totaling 91 appearances of words derived from this root in 31 different forms.

[porus]

Or is it taqbeel al-ard, taqbeel ar-rijl (qadam bosi), or taqbeel al-fakhdh (raan bosi)? [raan is thigh in Urdu]

This sentence should correctly be:

Or is it taqbeel al-ard (zameen bosi), taqbeel al-qadam (qadam bosi), or taqbeel al-fakhdh (raan bosi)? [raan is thigh in Urdu]

[murtaza2152]

Brother Porus ,,,

Sajada ,Qadambosi and Salaam are three different things ...

Sajada -- It is done today to Dail Mutlaq as he is Naibe Imamamil Mutaaqin (a representative of Imam in satr ) and due to his rank in Earthly Hierarchy ....
I have said before also Sajada to Imam/Dai is not same as Sajada to Allah Subhanahu , As stated in Himma it is Taziman Taqriban.......,,
It is for Thankfulness of Allah as Sajada Tus Shukr ..

Qadam bosi in proper form is to do salam and kissing the right knee of your spirtual guide.... (i have quoted refrences see above )

And in Quran nowhere Sajada of Respect has been banned or branded as Haraam or Shirk ,,, if there show me !!!!
Infact many times Zikr of Sajada performed to manly figures like Aadam ,Yusuf etc are there ... Refer to my above post !!!