I just happened to stumble upon this site and was shocked and aghast at what some of the people here had to say about Aqa Moula(TUS) and the Fatimid dawat.
I would like to offer my humble opinion and try to shed some light upon some of these issues.
Firstly, i found that members from the so called "Reformist" clan consistenly taunted the concept of community meals or Niyaz Jamans.
For the information of the misinformed and misguided reformists, the concept of community meals has been around from the time of our beloved prophet Rasullulah(SAW).
The very idea of these community dinners is not to satisfy our gastronomical desires, but rather to serve as a meeting place for the community brothers to socialize.
Man is a social being.
Most of you would be familiar with this concept because your kind also flock together to malign and abuse the Dawat and beloved our Dai.
The very tradition of eating at a Thal and to share while partaking our food is in order to promote brotherhood and love.
As for the quality of food that we indulge in, all i can say is that by the grace of Allah and the dua of his Dai, mumineen enjoy a decently high standard of living and i see no reason as to why we should not eat the best of food.
Most importantly, this salawat niyaz is a blessing from Allah, his prophet and his progeny and his Dai. Most of you have been deprived of this blessing of Salawat Niyaz.
I don't know if the so called reformists scholars realise the sawab and virtue of providing salawat niyaz to mumineen. Perhaps, its because you all are all so money centric that even donating a single paise towards such activities is torture for you.
However you will gladly open your purses for pathetic and baseless activities such as your "reform movement".
A few people referred to the tragic environmental disasters which have befallen upon the united states and pakistan and said that they have donated large sums of money towards these efforts. Noble as your intentions may be, tell me something, after you make your donations towards these funds, do you demand an account from the concerned agencies regarding the way in which the money is being spent. probably, no.
More significantly, have any of you got out of the comfort of your homes and visited the affected areas in order to provide relief.
Then what gives the reformists the right to demand an explanation of how the zakat and vajebaat funds are spent.
For your information, Aqa Moula, a true philantropist, has always tried to extend every assistance possible in order to help victims of natural calamities and disease outbreaks.
During the Surat Plague, he sent out teams of doctors to treat the sick and needy in addition to donating a handsome amount.
Even in the tragic Tsunami, Katrina hurricane incident, Huzurala has assisted the needy, dispatched medical aid and has donated sums for relief operations.
It is a matter of faith that separates you from us. You believe, that the money from Vajabats is misused, whereas we believe that the money is rightly spent in the service of Imam-uz-zaman and Islam. We believe that the money is spent towards constructing Beautiful Masjids, Rozas, schools, colleges, madrassa, hospitals and so on.
I have personally seen jamaat members going to the homes of the poor and needy in the community and give them support, both financial and moral, in order to try and free them from the shackles of poverty.
Today, the Dawoodi Bohra community, under the able, caring and loving leadership of HH.Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin saheb(TUS), is flourishing and has recieved unprecendented bounties from Allah.
It is because of our Aqa Moula, that our community commands respect and admiration from all countries and people, worldwide.
In fact, when Huzurala visited the United States recently, the Americans;who are still suspicious about muslims; said that they had seen many islamic leaders, but Aqa Moula was the only one who preached Love, brotherhood and harmony as opposed to hate and violence. They said that this is the true face of Islam.
Alhamdolillah, Aqa Moula, presents the right and glorious face of islam to the world.
Many of you "reformists", do not like to wear the Cap of don the Saya; well i feel sorry for you, because by rejecting he libas ul anwar, you allow yourself to be identified with the misguided people who have not even understood what islam stands for and indulge in blasphemous and violent activities, thereby, maligning the name if Islam.
I read in your site, that islam needs to be changed in order to survive in the changing world.
I respectfuly disagree. Islam does not need to be changed. Islam only needs to be correctly interpreted.
I am a educated young man, and i am pretty open minded to other people's opinions. However, i cannot agree with your views regarding what the dawat is preaching.
I attend most, vaaz and sermons and have always found that our leaders preach love and harmony, they want us to live complete meaningful lives in the service of Allah.
It is because of the visionary leadership of our beloved Moula that today, we are one of the most successful and highly educated communities in the world and can boast of having an almost 100% literacy rate. And under the loving guidance of our Moula, we will continue to flourish.
I was especially pained to read some imbecile commenting that the mourning and matam of imam Husain(AS) is wrong.(Laanat)
Such individuals are more suited to follow the wahabi sect of islam(perhaps you do). If so, then you have no right of calling yourself a shia, let alone a bohra.
The matam of imam husain along with the obedience of our Imam and Dai is a fundamental cornerstone of our faith. If you question this aspect of our faith, you should seriously consider a change of sects as currently, you are confused. Imam Husain's pain and hardships is not something that is put in the freezer all year long and then just brought out for Moharram.
The monumental sacrifices that Imam Husain(AS)made for us mumineen must be remembered everyday and at every moment.
I would also like to reply to a munafiqeen from the reformist clan who said that we make a hype of Imam Husain's death instead of celebrating his life. Now i'm sure that you Reformists believe and spread heresay and blasphemy.
If any of you have ever attended an ashara waaz, (i.e arrived on time and not slept through it)
you would have heard glorious accounts from the life of Imam Husain(AS) and Panjatan Pak.
the reason why you only happen to focus on the Matam part is because, you probably arrive at the majlis while the last matam is being held.
More importantly, The martyrdom of Imam Husain teaches us to be brave and strong like Imam Husain when tragedies befall us in our lives. We compare our pain with the pain imam Husain went through and undoubtedly, our pains are nothing as compared to what imam husain went through.
The next time you attend a vaaz(Insha allah), keep your ears open and try not to doze off and then you will realize what nehmat resides in the aza and bukaa for imam husain.
Imam Ali(AS) was once asked by a hypocrite that he loves both Imam Ali(AS) and the other Caliphs(Lanat). Imam Ali, very wisely suggested to him to either a person who can see or a person who is blind; he should not be Kaana(one eyed).
I think this little narration suits very well to the reformist hypocrits; You are currenly One eyed(visually impaired) to not see the benefit and sawab that we true mumineen are blessed with by imam-uz-zaman and his Dai.
My humble suggestion to you all would be to either, go entirely blind(by leaving the fold of the dawat) and reserve a place for urselves and your families in hell; in contrast, Allah's Dai is an ocean of mercy and forgiveness, wouldn't it be better if you begged his forgiveness and try to wash your sins.
But Alas, you hypocrites are so blinded by hate and what your leader Engineer preaches that you have lost the ability to see the noor that is present on Aqa Moula's face and in the dawat.
And for those of you, who call us blind followers, all i can say is "religion is not posible without faith". We have faith in Allah Rasullalah(SAW), Panjatan Pak(AS), Imam-uz-zaman(AS) and his Dai(TUS); whereas, you have faith in your saviour Mr.Engineer.
The reason you call us blind followers of Aqa Moula is because you yourselves are so blinded by the ways of the world that you are unable to see the Noor of Imam-uz-zaman and Rasulullah(SAW) shining on the face of Aqa Moula.
It is nothing less than his Haideri strength and unlimited love for mumineen's welfare in life and after death, that he discharges his duties with vigour even at this old age of 94.
I would like to ask the reformists, if they have ever come across a person who has led his life in the service of islam and mankind and continues to do so even when disease and old age comes upon him.
This is the strength of Panjatan Pak and Imam-uz-zaman. It's still not too late, the door of Dawat are open for all.
May Allah give you the strength and sense to come back in the soothing folds of the Dawat.
You so called Progressives are slowly but surely progressing towards the fire of hell.
May Allah grant our beloved Aqa Moula a long and healthy life and may the mischief mongers(Reformists) be vanquished with Allah's sword.
Was Salam.
PS: I apologize for any spelling and gramatical errors.
Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
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believer52
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:01 am
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Correction:
Many of you "reformists", do not like to wear the Cap OR don the Saya
Many of you "reformists", do not like to wear the Cap OR don the Saya
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
forget it my friend this reformists are like snakes in real life too,they will always bite you in the end,pachi to saap banwanna che pan hamna bhi saap ni aadat che sagla ma,giving them advice is like talking to stones
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
This is for believer 52
You call yourself open minded and would like to have a very rational debate.
But you are one of the biggest hypocrite.
A open minded person will not show any kind of ill will which you strongly presented in your posting by saying all reformist go to hell and those kind of nonsenses.
BUT YOU CANNOT BE FAULTED AS THAT'S ALL YOU HEAR IN YOUR WAAZ AND GET REHASH THE SAME THING>
WOULD YOUR KOTHARI FRIENDS WILL ALLOW TO POST OUR VIEWPOINT AT THEIR MESSAGE BOARD. On a second though forget, you cannot even breath without RAZA from some unknown source. Do you really believe that Syedna has nothing better to do than
read your ARAZ FOR RAZA. R U THAT NAIVE TO KNOW THAT RAZA IS COMING FROM SYEDNA.
Wake up and learn the meaning of OPEN MIND before blubbering like typical AAMIL AND SHEZAADAS
You call yourself open minded and would like to have a very rational debate.
But you are one of the biggest hypocrite.
A open minded person will not show any kind of ill will which you strongly presented in your posting by saying all reformist go to hell and those kind of nonsenses.
BUT YOU CANNOT BE FAULTED AS THAT'S ALL YOU HEAR IN YOUR WAAZ AND GET REHASH THE SAME THING>
WOULD YOUR KOTHARI FRIENDS WILL ALLOW TO POST OUR VIEWPOINT AT THEIR MESSAGE BOARD. On a second though forget, you cannot even breath without RAZA from some unknown source. Do you really believe that Syedna has nothing better to do than
read your ARAZ FOR RAZA. R U THAT NAIVE TO KNOW THAT RAZA IS COMING FROM SYEDNA.
Wake up and learn the meaning of OPEN MIND before blubbering like typical AAMIL AND SHEZAADAS
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Bohra-cpl-in-Houston
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Omabhrati
- you make a damn good point - they can't even breathe without Raza. Classic Example - while 2 million people evacuated the city of Houston during the hurricane, bohra asked for Raza to evacuate. Common sense has left the building my friend.
Open minded they call themselves - yet there is not a single bohra website besides this one that offers a place for a so called "open minded" debate.
Beleiver - you say how do we know if the charities we donate to are doing what they say. Whenever there is a disaster - you find organizations such as Unicef, Red cross etc out the scene no matter what country. And to your point - agreed there might have been instances where bohra jamaats may have helped the poor and needy.. However, if the concept of Zakaat is to give charity - then why does it matter whether one gives it through the masjid via the Vajebat dues or to the redcross. Will the jamaats give a person credit on their Vajebaat dues for the year if the person gave their charity dollars to someone other than the bohra masjid. I think NOT. However since you say you're a believer and have an "Open Mind" lets see what you have to say about that.
- you make a damn good point - they can't even breathe without Raza. Classic Example - while 2 million people evacuated the city of Houston during the hurricane, bohra asked for Raza to evacuate. Common sense has left the building my friend.
Open minded they call themselves - yet there is not a single bohra website besides this one that offers a place for a so called "open minded" debate.
Beleiver - you say how do we know if the charities we donate to are doing what they say. Whenever there is a disaster - you find organizations such as Unicef, Red cross etc out the scene no matter what country. And to your point - agreed there might have been instances where bohra jamaats may have helped the poor and needy.. However, if the concept of Zakaat is to give charity - then why does it matter whether one gives it through the masjid via the Vajebat dues or to the redcross. Will the jamaats give a person credit on their Vajebaat dues for the year if the person gave their charity dollars to someone other than the bohra masjid. I think NOT. However since you say you're a believer and have an "Open Mind" lets see what you have to say about that.
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
believer52,
May I humbly request you to post messages under relevant threads? This long post of yours was actually suited for the toipc "jokes on kothar". Please leave the other threads for serious discussions. And now on a serious note, I would love to know what does "education" mean for you when you say " I am a educated young man ".
May I humbly request you to post messages under relevant threads? This long post of yours was actually suited for the toipc "jokes on kothar". Please leave the other threads for serious discussions. And now on a serious note, I would love to know what does "education" mean for you when you say " I am a educated young man ".
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
believer 52,
It was a great piece and very accurate ,it hit them where it hurts,
its got the kutaras bhoking !
in Tahir, cpl houston and soon gansaaf will be in with his little piece, wheres injinyar (ajghar saap) nowadays is he hibernating.
It was a great piece and very accurate ,it hit them where it hurts,
its got the kutaras bhoking !
in Tahir, cpl houston and soon gansaaf will be in with his little piece, wheres injinyar (ajghar saap) nowadays is he hibernating.
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
bcplhouston,
"However, if the concept of Zakaat is to give charity"
unfortunately you don't know the difference between zakat and sadaqa. zakat is not charity. imam jafar sadiq has said in kitab al kafi that every dinar he collects in zakat (means purfication) is purfication of the soul for the person giving it...and this is only reason he collects it (paraphased). sadaqah is charity and can be given to anyone you see fit. but sadaqah and zakat are not the same. this is why zakat is required (as an irkan of faith) and sadaqah is only encouraged or recommendation.
"However, if the concept of Zakaat is to give charity"
unfortunately you don't know the difference between zakat and sadaqa. zakat is not charity. imam jafar sadiq has said in kitab al kafi that every dinar he collects in zakat (means purfication) is purfication of the soul for the person giving it...and this is only reason he collects it (paraphased). sadaqah is charity and can be given to anyone you see fit. but sadaqah and zakat are not the same. this is why zakat is required (as an irkan of faith) and sadaqah is only encouraged or recommendation.
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Beleiver 52,
Just a couple of initial comments after reading your posting.
HE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PIONEER OF THE 20TH CENTURY REFORM MOVEMENT WITHIN THE BOHRA COMMUNITY. NEVER HAS ANYONE CLAIMED HIM TO HAVE ANY POWER OR AUTHORITY WHETHER IT BE RELIGIOUS, SPIRITUAL OR POLITICAL. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS INFORMATION THAT HE IS A 'SAVIOUR' ?
PLEASE ANSWER?
Just a couple of initial comments after reading your posting.
I HAVE POSTED IT BEFORE, BUT ASGHAR ALI ENGINEER IS IN NO WAY A LEADER/ SPIRITUAL GUIDE OR SPIRITUAL AUTORITY.Originally posted by believer52:
My humble suggestion to you all would be to either, go entirely blind(by leaving the fold of the dawat) and reserve a place for urselves and your families in hell; in contrast, Allah's Dai is an ocean of mercy and forgiveness, wouldn't it be better if you begged his forgiveness and try to wash your sins.
DO YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT DAI IS WORTHY OF GRANTING FORGIVENESS? MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT NONE CANT GRANT FORGIVENESS EXCEPT FOR ALLAH ALONE. WHY DO I NEED THE FORGIVENESS OF THE DAI? IF I DON'T HAVE THIS GRANTED WILL MY DOOR TO JANNAT BE CLOSED FOREVER? PLEASE ANSWER?
But Alas, you hypocrites are so blinded by hate and what your leader Engineer preaches that you have lost the ability to see the noor that is present on Aqa Moula's face and in the dawat.
And for those of you, who call us blind followers, all i can say is "religion is not posible without faith". We have faith in Allah Rasullalah(SAW), Panjatan Pak(AS), Imam-uz-zaman(AS) and his Dai(TUS); whereas, you have faith in your saviour Mr.Engineer.
errors.
HE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PIONEER OF THE 20TH CENTURY REFORM MOVEMENT WITHIN THE BOHRA COMMUNITY. NEVER HAS ANYONE CLAIMED HIM TO HAVE ANY POWER OR AUTHORITY WHETHER IT BE RELIGIOUS, SPIRITUAL OR POLITICAL. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS INFORMATION THAT HE IS A 'SAVIOUR' ?
PLEASE ANSWER?
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Beleiver 52,
(sorry - reposting again with clearer quotation marks - ignore the previous post)
Just a couple of initial comments after reading your posting.
HE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PIONEER OF THE 20TH CENTURY REFORM MOVEMENT WITHIN THE BOHRA COMMUNITY. NEVER HAS ANYONE CLAIMED HIM TO HAVE ANY OTHER POWER OR AUTHORITY. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS INFORMATION THAT HE IS A 'SAVIOUR' ?
PLEASE ANSWER?
(sorry - reposting again with clearer quotation marks - ignore the previous post)
Just a couple of initial comments after reading your posting.
DO YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT ALLAH'S DAI IS WORTHY OF GRANTING FORGIVENESS? MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT NONE CANT GRANT FORGIVENESS EXCEPT FOR ALLAH ALONE.Originally posted by believer52:
My humble suggestion to you all would be to either, go entirely blind(by leaving the fold of the dawat) and reserve a place for urselves and your families in hell; in contrast, Allah's Dai is an ocean of mercy and forgiveness, wouldn't it be better if you begged his forgiveness and try to wash your sins.
I HAVE POSTED IT BEFORE, BUT ASGHAR ALI ENGINEER IS NO WAY A LEADER/ SPIRITUAL GUIDE OR SPIRITUAL AUTORITY. NOBODY HAS EVER CLAIMED THIS EXCEPT FOR THOSE BLINDED ORTHODOX BOHRAS.Originally posted by believer52:
But Alas, you hypocrites are so blinded by hate and what your leader Engineer preaches that you have lost the ability to see the noor that is present on Aqa Moula's face and in the dawat.
And for those of you, who call us blind followers, all i can say is "religion is not posible without faith". We have faith in Allah Rasullalah(SAW), Panjatan Pak(AS), Imam-uz-zaman(AS) and his Dai(TUS); whereas, you have faith in your saviour Mr.Engineer.
errors.
HE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PIONEER OF THE 20TH CENTURY REFORM MOVEMENT WITHIN THE BOHRA COMMUNITY. NEVER HAS ANYONE CLAIMED HIM TO HAVE ANY OTHER POWER OR AUTHORITY. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS INFORMATION THAT HE IS A 'SAVIOUR' ?
PLEASE ANSWER?
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mumin_mukhlish
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Dear believer52,
As moomin52 said, why do you want to waste your time and energy? All these ppl have already secured one of the worst places in hell.Person like you wont be able to change their destiny.
For me,this has become one of the entertainment sites. Just njoy different jokers like Tahir,BohraCpl etc.
As moomin52 said, why do you want to waste your time and energy? All these ppl have already secured one of the worst places in hell.Person like you wont be able to change their destiny.
For me,this has become one of the entertainment sites. Just njoy different jokers like Tahir,BohraCpl etc.
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
hi believer52 what did i tell that do not waste your time on snakes,they are very slippery and never loyal to anybody. you just saw one of them even refusing to accept engineer as his leader
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Moomin052,Originally posted by moomin052:
hi believer52 what did i tell that do not waste your time on snakes,they are very slippery and never loyal to anybody. you just saw one of them even refusing to accept engineer as his leader
Please don't resort to name calling, back-biting and slander. We are trying to engage in consturctive discourse.
Furthermore, I must repeat, Dr. Engineer is NOT a religious leader. Why do you think he is?
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
if he is not a religious leader than why does he and insaaf try make comments with great authority on bohras and their religion,he should just say that he hates our moula and thats it and not try to justify his actions by quoting hadees and quran. And about the snakes remark i just spoke the truth if you look at insaaf messages on this board you will see a lot of turnabouts and lies and thats what snakes and shaitans do. he is showing by his actions to be a snake
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
believer52 writes, and I quote,
"For your information, Aqa Moula, a true philantropist, has always tried to extend every assistance possible in order to help victims of natural calamities and disease outbreaks.
During the Surat Plague, he sent out teams of doctors to treat the sick and needy in addition to donating a handsome amount.
Even in the tragic Tsunami, Katrina hurricane incident, Huzurala has assisted the needy, dispatched medical aid and has donated sums for relief operations.
It is a matter of faith that separates you from us. You believe, that the money from Vajabats is misused, whereas we believe that the money is rightly spent in the service of Imam-uz-zaman and Islam. We believe that the money is spent towards constructing Beautiful Masjids, Rozas, schools, colleges, madrassa, hospitals and so on"
Very noble, please be kind and give some proof, newspapaer articles etc to substanciate your above statement. In which world do all the above exists? DREAM WORLD i guess.
Where do you, moomin52 get the info that Dr Engineer and Insaf are our religious leaders. And what makes you think they are our leaders,whom we follow blindly? They are elected democratically to represent and lead our movement,not spritually. For your info, it has been said before, and say it again so get it into your thick skin/head,this reformist movement is not questioning Dais office. The dai is supposed to and should be leading us and guiding us spiritually, without interfearing in our everyday life.
Dr Engineer is a learned scholer, respected not only by the reformists, but millions of others fighting for justice, peace, and tolerance irrespective of their religion and beliefs. For your info, the Swedish authority acknowledged this by giving him "The Right Livelyhood" honorary award. http://www.rightlivelihood.org/speeches ... gineer.htm
Its called the alternate Nobel Peace Price for you info. more on this award read on
http://www.rightlivelihood.org/award.htm
Have you ever met or heard Dr. Engineer speak about Moulana? I have, and can tell you he always addresses Moulana with respect,calling him Sayadna Saheb. Can you please show just 1 (one) jammat where all your board members are elected. I am waiting for a very interesting reply. I am open minded,just like like believer52, the only difference being my eyes are open too, and I am allowed to think for myself, by MY GOD
"For your information, Aqa Moula, a true philantropist, has always tried to extend every assistance possible in order to help victims of natural calamities and disease outbreaks.
During the Surat Plague, he sent out teams of doctors to treat the sick and needy in addition to donating a handsome amount.
Even in the tragic Tsunami, Katrina hurricane incident, Huzurala has assisted the needy, dispatched medical aid and has donated sums for relief operations.
It is a matter of faith that separates you from us. You believe, that the money from Vajabats is misused, whereas we believe that the money is rightly spent in the service of Imam-uz-zaman and Islam. We believe that the money is spent towards constructing Beautiful Masjids, Rozas, schools, colleges, madrassa, hospitals and so on"
Very noble, please be kind and give some proof, newspapaer articles etc to substanciate your above statement. In which world do all the above exists? DREAM WORLD i guess.
Where do you, moomin52 get the info that Dr Engineer and Insaf are our religious leaders. And what makes you think they are our leaders,whom we follow blindly? They are elected democratically to represent and lead our movement,not spritually. For your info, it has been said before, and say it again so get it into your thick skin/head,this reformist movement is not questioning Dais office. The dai is supposed to and should be leading us and guiding us spiritually, without interfearing in our everyday life.
Dr Engineer is a learned scholer, respected not only by the reformists, but millions of others fighting for justice, peace, and tolerance irrespective of their religion and beliefs. For your info, the Swedish authority acknowledged this by giving him "The Right Livelyhood" honorary award. http://www.rightlivelihood.org/speeches ... gineer.htm
Its called the alternate Nobel Peace Price for you info. more on this award read on
http://www.rightlivelihood.org/award.htm
Have you ever met or heard Dr. Engineer speak about Moulana? I have, and can tell you he always addresses Moulana with respect,calling him Sayadna Saheb. Can you please show just 1 (one) jammat where all your board members are elected. I am waiting for a very interesting reply. I am open minded,just like like believer52, the only difference being my eyes are open too, and I am allowed to think for myself, by MY GOD
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mumin_mukhlish
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Mr Anwar,
FYI
http://www.mumineen.org/tsunami_relief.html
http://www.presidentofpakistan.gov.pk/N ... entID=2055
Above websites do exist in Real world,I guess. Seems you still live in DREAM WORLD.
Quote from Anwar
Come out of DREAM WORLD and try to look for definition of Open Mind.
FYI
http://www.mumineen.org/tsunami_relief.html
http://www.presidentofpakistan.gov.pk/N ... entID=2055
Above websites do exist in Real world,I guess. Seems you still live in DREAM WORLD.
Quote from Anwar
You are so open minded that if you were during Prophet(SAW) time, you would have elected Prophet(SAW) through democratic electionCan you please show just 1 (one) jammat where all your board members are elected. I am waiting for a very interesting reply. I am open minded,just like like believer52
Come out of DREAM WORLD and try to look for definition of Open Mind.
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
even hitler ,bush,blair,mussolini, were democratically elected look at what they did and are doing in name of democracy.
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
talking about the honours and degrees and respect ajger has, he does not even come close to our moula but of course you snakes will deny this,please tell me how a rational person can call our moula syedna saheb in one breath and abuse him in another,that is why i am calling you snakes
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
what exactly do you mean that the dai is supposed to lead only spiritually and not interfere with daily life,please ask ajger and explain
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kabeer19922001
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Dear mumin-mukhlis
I read with considerable amusement the article on the contribution made to the President's Fund. It says that the leader conributed Rs 11 million from his personal funds. First of all Rs 11 million is roughly US $ 183,000, an extremly paltry sum, which is roughly equal to the fee for becoming a Sheikh. Secondly, where does the Dai get Rs 11 million from his personal funds, when he has no source of income. It is the money of the community, sucked out of them. I am disgusted that the man has the audacity to call it his "personal funds". In fact the breakdown was neither requested nor required.
Regards
I read with considerable amusement the article on the contribution made to the President's Fund. It says that the leader conributed Rs 11 million from his personal funds. First of all Rs 11 million is roughly US $ 183,000, an extremly paltry sum, which is roughly equal to the fee for becoming a Sheikh. Secondly, where does the Dai get Rs 11 million from his personal funds, when he has no source of income. It is the money of the community, sucked out of them. I am disgusted that the man has the audacity to call it his "personal funds". In fact the breakdown was neither requested nor required.
Regards
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kabeer19922001
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Quote
"It is a matter of faith that separates you from us. You believe, that the money from Vajabats is misused, whereas we believe that the money is rightly spent in the service of Imam-uz-zaman and Islam. We believe that the money is spent towards constructing Beautiful Masjids, Rozas, schools, colleges, madrassa, hospitals and so on."
Beautiful mosques??? Ok acceptable, but mostly empty.
Roza's. Waste of money and some people would call it a bidaah
Schools, colleges. Not in Pakistan at least. May be in Utopia
Madrassa. Hope the CIA is not reading this site.
Hospitals. Please we are tired of reading about Saifee Hospital. I know of one Hospital ( butcher shop ) in Karachi which only the desperate use.
Regards
"It is a matter of faith that separates you from us. You believe, that the money from Vajabats is misused, whereas we believe that the money is rightly spent in the service of Imam-uz-zaman and Islam. We believe that the money is spent towards constructing Beautiful Masjids, Rozas, schools, colleges, madrassa, hospitals and so on."
Beautiful mosques??? Ok acceptable, but mostly empty.
Roza's. Waste of money and some people would call it a bidaah
Schools, colleges. Not in Pakistan at least. May be in Utopia
Madrassa. Hope the CIA is not reading this site.
Hospitals. Please we are tired of reading about Saifee Hospital. I know of one Hospital ( butcher shop ) in Karachi which only the desperate use.
Regards
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Or rather you can out put it this way Kabeer,
Beautiful mosque - where people do everything except salat,including kicking the poor heads who try to offer the sunnat and nafil.
The essence of namaaz(most imp in Islam) is miles & miles away from bohras.
In muharram, you can see people doing maatam, zohar gets kazaa.
Aashura day magrib and isha goes for a big toss !
The way namaaz is read is amazing.
During waaz , Aamil shouts with his full vigour.
During namaaz people can hardly hear his kiraat .
Point to be noted - this is not only with Aamils
Beautiful mosque - where people do everything except salat,including kicking the poor heads who try to offer the sunnat and nafil.
The essence of namaaz(most imp in Islam) is miles & miles away from bohras.
In muharram, you can see people doing maatam, zohar gets kazaa.
Aashura day magrib and isha goes for a big toss !
The way namaaz is read is amazing.
During waaz , Aamil shouts with his full vigour.
During namaaz people can hardly hear his kiraat .
Point to be noted - this is not only with Aamils
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Talking about the Kothar's obsession/fetish to build Mausolems all around the world, this is a true story. Scout's honour; Cross my heart and die!
A professional Bohri couple from North America recently went around Middle East, (including Yemen and Egypt) India and London for the religious tours/ziyarat with their two almost teenage kids, both being born and brought up in North America.
One of the kids innocently asked their parents:
Why do we always visit the dead people wherever we go?
A professional Bohri couple from North America recently went around Middle East, (including Yemen and Egypt) India and London for the religious tours/ziyarat with their two almost teenage kids, both being born and brought up in North America.
One of the kids innocently asked their parents:
Why do we always visit the dead people wherever we go?
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
once the kid grows up he will not dare to ask !
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
Thank you mumeen_mukhlishfor the info on moulas donation.
what about building of schools, colleges, hospitals other than Saifee hospital in mumbai,beautifull Masjeet, madrassas, ???Donation for katrin fund? sending medical teams, where?
What philontrofical work has moula done. Does the kothar know the meaning of philonterophy?Tell me so I can beat my brest and be a proud Bohri.
I have met countless mumineens coming from villges and small townd in India for donations for making and running expenses for madresas,why, is moula not providing for them?
Roza, yes I am sure he has made a few.But sadly they are not ment for the poor, but for the rich and well to do and they get free/subsidised bording and lodging, and dont forget your safai chitti. This ROZAS a business. Dont Islam say we should not kiss or worship any person exept GOD, Is doing Ziarat not the same as worshipping and kissing a human?Is this practice not prohibited in Islam? Ofcourse I am no expert on religion or its practices, so do enlighten me if I am wrong.
Beliver52 writes "It is because of our Aqa Moula, that our community commands respect and admiration from all countries and people, worldwide" I definately agree with you in that other community/country, admire moula, they admire him for controlling amd milking the community of their hard earned money.This is a sad truth of our community in Kenya/Tanzania, where the poor ones have to contribute too towards his hunting and money raising visits.
Mumin_mukhlish, read and understand my question before replying. I am not talking of electing Dai, but the members of local jamaat committee, responsible of running the jamaat.
what about building of schools, colleges, hospitals other than Saifee hospital in mumbai,beautifull Masjeet, madrassas, ???Donation for katrin fund? sending medical teams, where?
What philontrofical work has moula done. Does the kothar know the meaning of philonterophy?Tell me so I can beat my brest and be a proud Bohri.
I have met countless mumineens coming from villges and small townd in India for donations for making and running expenses for madresas,why, is moula not providing for them?
Roza, yes I am sure he has made a few.But sadly they are not ment for the poor, but for the rich and well to do and they get free/subsidised bording and lodging, and dont forget your safai chitti. This ROZAS a business. Dont Islam say we should not kiss or worship any person exept GOD, Is doing Ziarat not the same as worshipping and kissing a human?Is this practice not prohibited in Islam? Ofcourse I am no expert on religion or its practices, so do enlighten me if I am wrong.
Beliver52 writes "It is because of our Aqa Moula, that our community commands respect and admiration from all countries and people, worldwide" I definately agree with you in that other community/country, admire moula, they admire him for controlling amd milking the community of their hard earned money.This is a sad truth of our community in Kenya/Tanzania, where the poor ones have to contribute too towards his hunting and money raising visits.
Mumin_mukhlish, read and understand my question before replying. I am not talking of electing Dai, but the members of local jamaat committee, responsible of running the jamaat.
Re: Lets Introspect,"Reformers"
M52,Originally posted by moomin052:
what exactly do you mean that the dai is supposed to lead only spiritually and not interfere with daily life,please ask ajger and explain
The position of dai (im my understanding is correct) is to be a guide and benchmark of how all people should live their live, and at the same time call them to the faith.
Syedna doesnt do any of this. He lives a 5-star lifestlye in which he collects money from the poor and gives to the rich (his family). He doesnt even go out and call people to the faith. BOhras are an isolated community and do not encourage to call out to other human beings to embrace the true faith. Why is that?