Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

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Doctor
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Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#1

Unread post by Doctor » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:33 am

Mola Ali (a) said, "Don't allow christians, jews (kaafirs) entry in your mosques otherwise you will be made pigs and monkeys."
Above quoted from: Book Daimul Islam, Chapter: Masjid ka bayan

http://www.londonjamaat.org/html/ken_livingstone.html : In the same evening Ken Livingstone Mayor of London visited the Mosque. A splendid reception was hosted in his honour. ... The mayor toured the complex and admired the Islamic –Fatemi architect of the mosque.

Hence, Kothar has breached the command and order of Mola Ali (a)?

Muslim First
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#2

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:01 pm

Is it prohibited in Islam to invite non Muslims to Masjid?

Are there any Qur'anic verses?

Are there any Ahadit?

I have seen non Muslims visiting Masjids often provided they take their shoes out. In our masjid groups of Christian and Jews reguraly visit to observe Muslim religious prectice.

candela
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#3

Unread post by candela » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:06 pm

Muslim First, I get what you are saying, but I think the point that Doctor may be trying to make is that the Kothar appears to be defying a ruling that comes from one of their own books (in the sense that sabaks appear to use Daimul Islam often).

Muslim First
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#4

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:44 pm

but I think the point that Doctor may be trying to make is that the Kothar appears to be defying a ruling that comes from one of their own books (in the sense that sabaks appear to use Daimul Islam often).
For a Muslim Qur'an and Sunna is onlu guide.

My question is did Prophet forbade Jews and Chrstians from Masjid?

I understand that that applies to only Mecca and Madina.

How are you going to Dawa to non Muslims.

Is Mubarak in his zeal to condem Maulana using something which Prophet did not do?

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:24 pm

Bro Muslim First,

Lets forget the visit of the mayor of london for the time being, what about inviting Narendra Modi to the Masjid in Surat and felicitating him, draping a shawl and giving him a cheque of over Rs.One crore ? This shaitan is known for his involvement in the massacre of thousands of muslims. I dont think we can use the words "giving dawa to Islam" because it is obvious that this was never the case. He was invited and bribed by the dai to ensure that his jamea in surat is not targeted by Modi's goons and also that his yearly 'zikra' tamashas go on smoothly without any interference from the BJP led govt.

Muslim First
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#6

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:57 pm

Br GM

I am not condoning acts of treason against Muslim victims by Maulana.

I just want to know, can non Muslim visit Masjid if he is properly dressed?

Is there anything against it in Qur'an or Sunnah?

If not then Hadith ascribed to Hz Ali RA may not be true.

aziz
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#7

Unread post by aziz » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:19 am

even if the the moron doctor is right (very doubtful) the pics show that the function was held outside the masjid and not inside so whats his problem,

Doctor
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#8

Unread post by Doctor » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:16 am

aziz wrote:even if the the moron doctor is right (very doubtful) the pics show that the function was held outside the masjid and not inside so whats his problem,
Dear Aziz bhai,

London Jamat website report (refer link http://www.londonjamaat.org/html/ken_livingstone.html):
"In the same evening Ken Livingstone Mayor of London visited the Mosque. A splendid reception was hosted in his honour. ...The mayor toured the complex and admired the Islamic –Fatemi architect of the mosque."
The problem is: As per Mola Ali Ameer-al-mumineen (a) (refer Daimul Islam - chapter Masjid ka bayamn): Kothar by inviting a Christian in Dawoodi Bohra mosques have done sin.


Bhai Aziz, Bhai aqs, Bhai Progticide: It is apt that you all mumineen must have first loyality with Fatimi Dawat / Command of Mola Ali and not with Kothar. Hence, you all mumineen must join Bohra Youth movement who demand Kothar to practice as per established faith of Fatimi Dawat and not act against command of Mola Ali (a).

sixfeetunder
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#9

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:33 am

I don't think that the statement attributed to Ali (a.s) is true. Even if it is, it must have been in a particular context or part of a long sermon. Ali (a.s) was a humanitarian. This statement suits more to Taliban and other Extremist Mullahs than to Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s).

Islam is a missionary religion. It expects Muslims to spread the faith by action and words. What better place to demonstrate the faith than a mosque? The only thing to be taken care of is the Islamic etiquette, dress code and cleanliness.

Reynold says this about Ali (a.s)'s death:

"Ali was so popular even among the non-Muslims that when he died, all the Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians of Kufa, particularly their women and children who were personally looked after by Ali, lamented his death and wept as one does for one’s father. Mourning was observed even in Jerusalem and the Lord Bishop also could not restrain his tears."

(Prof. M. G. Reynold’s Book on Islam, Chapter 3.)

Humsafar
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#10

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:01 am

I agree with Sixfeetunder - this saying attributed to Ali if true might only be for a specific context. You cannot turn it into a normative practice and impose it as a principle.
Besides, the whole idea of pinning down abdes on this questionable, not to mention parochial and sectarian, issue is so unnecessary. There are no dearth of issues to expose the unislamic ways of the burhani cult. They live and breathe kufr.

porus
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#11

Unread post by porus » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:05 pm

Doctor wrote: Mola Ali (a) said, "Don't allow christians, jews (kaafirs) entry in your mosques otherwise you will be made pigs and monkeys."
Above quoted from: Book Daimul Islam, Chapter: Masjid ka bayan
Doctor or anyone else,

Could you please provide the original Arabic version of the Daimul Islam extract which is attributed to Ali ibn Abi Talib? I would like to check if it has been translated 'correctly'?

One of the translations that I have read is:

"Ameerul Mumineen Mawlana Ali (a.s.) has said that it is advisable to protect masjids from your Jews, Christians, children and the insane."

Two points:

1. Is Ali referring to people whom Muslims own but do not understand the importance of prayers in a masjid?

2. Context of the quote is the etiquette to be observed when assembling for prayers in a masjid. Would the advise apply to periods outside of namaaz times?

Hussain_KSA
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#12

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:44 am

Brother Porus

You want arabic version of daim ul Islam or just the referred text. In case if you wat arabic version I can send you on your email. However doctor is right in some extent as the arabic version goes like this.

" و عن علي ( عليه السلام) أنه قال : لتمعن مساجدكم يهودكم و نصار ا لكم و صبيانكم و مجانينكم أو ليمسخنكم الله أو ليمسخنكم الله قردة و خنازير ركعا و سجدا."

Regards.

Hussain_KSA
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#13

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:06 am

Brother Porus

Please read with correction:
و عن علي ( عليه السلام) أنه قال : لتمنعن مساجدكم يهودكم و نصاراكم و صبيانكم و مجانينكم أو ليمسخنكم الله قردة و خنازير ركعا و سجداً.

Thanks.

porus
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#14

Unread post by porus » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:32 pm

Hussain_KSA wrote:Brother Porus

Please read with correction:
و عن علي ( عليه السلام) أنه قال : لتمنعن مساجدكم يهودكم و نصاراكم و صبيانكم و مجانينكم أو ليمسخنكم الله قردة و خنازير ركعا و سجداً.

Thanks.
Thank you very much brother Hussain_KSA.

Yes. That is a very emphatic command (li-tamna'anna) forbidding Jews, Christians, children* and the insane from masjids.

Nevertheless, I still wonder why Ali uses 'your' Jews, 'your' Christians etc. in his command.

*Ismail Poonawala suggests Sabeans instead of 'children' in a footnote to the passage in his translation. This to me makes more sense.

Hussain_KSA
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Re: Kothar acted against command of Mola Ali (a)

#15

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sun May 01, 2011 2:48 am

Translations can be diffrence and some time it mislead the readers too. However from Arabic version it is clear and point that brother Mubarak has raised (regarding monkyes and pigs) stand correct and valid. Even in Quran God has ordered to refrain non blievers from entering Masjid ul Haraam. It is agreed by all faiths and shcool of thoughts that non blievers are non pure "Najis" so it applies to all the mosques. I am writing this here as some one from the forum has raised this question.