NASS CONFERRED

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#121

Unread post by stranger » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:47 pm

anajmi wrote:No. I got that from "52,000 ways to enslave abde idiots".
You have misread the Title. .It must be '' how an idiot get kicked from an abde, in 52,0001 ways''. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#122

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:48 pm

What next for Mufadal ?

Do we expect a major ceremony ?

Acceptance speeches ?

Burhanuddin will publicly seat next to Mufadal ?

Where are the learned abdes on the site ?

labbaikyaHussain
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:22 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#123

Unread post by labbaikyaHussain » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:45 am

progticide wrote:I am being informed by reliable sources in the reformist club that the reformist are bulk procuring ointments like Burnol, Silverex and other burn-relief creams for application on their private parts since last weekend.
The burns have been categorised as 100% Grade 5 burns and they are smelling so vicious and foul that the doctors have refused to treat them and so the source tells me that they are helping each other in the application of these ointments. And although its actually hurting them they are making a show of enjoyment in the act.

this is what u have learn in your secret sabaks? to redicule belivers?

I am neither progressive and nor i give misaak any more to any one otjer then Imam,but i still know that this kind of language is inappropriate for any believer in Islaam.

i know progressive like Al-zulfiqaar do use foul language but that doesnt mean DB shud also reply in same manner.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#124

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:07 pm

progticide wrote:I am being informed by reliable sources in the reformist club that the reformist are bulk procuring ointments like Burnol, Silverex and other burn-relief creams for application on their private parts since last weekend.

The burns have been categorised as 100% Grade 5 burns and they are smelling so vicious and foul that the doctors have refused to treat them and so the source tells me that they are helping each other in the application of these ointments. And although its actually hurting them they are making a show of enjoyment in the act.
Iam being informed by reliable sources in the "Dawoodi Bohra Club" that glycerine and other drugs/steroids used to get a high of mass hysteria are fast disappearing from the chemist's shelves as abdes are buying the same in bulk for the much awaited muharrum tamasha which is just a few months away. The abdes are tired of making "rova jivu muh" in muharrum vayez as they have rehearsed the act in front of the mirror and realised how comic it looks and hence need a few drops of glycerine to give a natural touch to the tears that flow down their eyes and get the much needed respite from making those funny faces in midst of the packed audience in respective masjids. The drugs/steroids will be handy in enabling them to engage in bouts of mass hysteria which is needed at the time of the chants of "Ya Hussain" which is used to wake them up from deep sleep during bayans.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#125

Unread post by profastian » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:40 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:
ghulam muhammed wrote: Iam being informed by reliable sources in the "Dawoodi Bohra Club" that glycerine and other drugs/steroids used to get a high of mass hysteria are fast disappearing from the chemist's shelves as abdes are buying the same in bulk for the much awaited muharrum tamasha which is just a few months away. The abdes are tired of making "rova jivu muh" in muharrum vayez as they have rehearsed the act in front of the mirror and realised how comic it looks and hence need a few drops of glycerine to give a natural touch to the tears that flow down their eyes and get the much needed respite from making those funny faces in midst of the packed audience in respective masjids. The drugs/steroids will be handy in enabling them to engage in bouts of mass hysteria which is needed at the time of the chants of "Ya Hussain" which is used to wake them up from deep sleep during bayans.

This is really sad GM. I always thougt that you were perhaps one of the more sensible ones from the lot. You just proved me wrong.
Calling Muharram a "tamasha" just shows how perverted and corrupt your mind is.
Dont bother justifying yourself by saying that "this is how you abdes treat Muharram" because you really have NO idea.
It's really sad when senior members like you have to stoop to such dirty behaviour!!!

BTW, i do suspect that you have stolen this from a posting written by AZ once, a long time ago!
That really clinches it GM. By making of fun "Rowa jiwu mo", you are mocking the Hadees by the prophet, hence mocking the prophet indirectly. Now wat kind of a Muslim one is when one mocks the Prophet.

Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#126

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:16 am

By making of fun "Rowa jiwu mo", you are mocking the Hadees by the prophet
Can you post Hadith please. Book and number, please.

Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#127

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:58 am

Mustafa
MF... Are you trying to prove a point or just be daft?
The post has to be read in the correct context that what has been written, goes against ANY and EVERY Hadith of the Prophet
What is daft?

don't be cute, Can you quote one Hadeeth where prophet asked us to shed tears after his grand sons shahadat?

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#128

Unread post by like_minded » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:06 am

Muslim First wrote:Mustafa
MF... Are you trying to prove a point or just be daft?
The post has to be read in the correct context that what has been written, goes against ANY and EVERY Hadith of the Prophet
What is daft?

don't be cute, Can you quote one Hadeeth where prophet asked us to shed tears after his grand sons shahadat?
Bro MF

This guy nallu has no clue whatsoever! Since the time his more la came in his dreams, our man has lost his mental equilibrium.

like_minded
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#129

Unread post by like_minded » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:07 am

Hey nallu

Of late who is coming in your dreams?? Burhanuddin or Mufaddal?? :mrgreen:

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: The Official Positon....

#130

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:35 am

Hussain ,

Do progs believe that Mufaddal is the rightful heir of the 52nd ?

So if he by chance turn out to be a moderate you would acknowledge him as absolute leader ?

Is it because he is the son of a Diai or you/PDB believe he is the most competent and capable ?

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#131

Unread post by stranger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:44 am

Muslim First wrote: don't be cute, Can you quote one Hadeeth where prophet asked us to shed tears after his grand sons shahadat?

The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) said: Surely, there exists in the hearts of the Mu'mineen, with respect to the martyrdom of Husain (A.S.), a heat that never subsides.
Mustadrak al‑Wasail vol 10 pg. 318

The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) said:
O' Fatimah! Every eye shall be weeping on the Day of Judgment except the eye which has shed tears over the tragedy of Husain (A.S.) for surely, that eye shall be laughing and shall be given the glad tidings of the bounties and comforts of Paradise.
Bihar al‑Anwar, vol. 44 pg. 193.

Imam 'Ali Ibn al‑Husain (A.S.) used to say:
Every Mu'min, whose eyes shed tears upon the killing of Husain Ibn 'Ali (A.S.) and his companions, such that the tears roll down his cheeks, Allah shall accommodate him in the elevated rooms of Paradise.
Yanaabe'al‑Mawaddah, pg. 419.

Amirul Mu'mineen (A.S.), along with two of his companions, happened to pass by Kerbala and as he did so, tears filled his eyes. He said (to them), "This is the resting place of their animals; and this is where their luggage shall be laid down; and it is here that their blood shall be shed. Blessed are you O' Earth, that the blood of the beloved shall be spilled upon you."
Bihar al Anwar, vol: 98 pg. 258.

(Once when he happened to pass by Kerbala), Isa (A.S.) sat down and began to weep. His disciples who were observing him, followed suit and began weeping too, but not comprehending the reason for this behaviour, they asked him: "O' Spirit of God! What is it that makes you weep?" Isa (A.S.) said: "Do you know what land this is?" The disciples replied: "No." He then said: "This is the land on, which the son of the Prophet Ahmad (S.A.W.) shall be killed.
Bihar al Anwar vol 44 pg. 252.

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#132

Unread post by stranger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:46 am

And no, i cannot quote even a single Hadith where the Prophet asked us to shed tears on the shahadat of Imam Hussain,
Bro Mustafa,
Its Ok, If you can't, Let me do it for you. :wink:

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#133

Unread post by profastian » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:11 am

So my dear MF, stranger has proved that there are dozens of Hadiths where the Prophet commands his followers to mourn Hussain and GM has mocked the mourning of Hussain, and mocked the Prophets Hadith and hence mocked the Prophet. And you know naa ke wat should one do with a person who mocks the prophet. So MF, when are you getting up from your death bed with a knife or sword and ringing GM's door bell :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#134

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:40 am

These books has long been rejected by sunni Muslims as these are written and followed by Shias only. GM has many times wrote about these books on the forum.

Could you please qoute a single reference from sahai Sitta ( six books) in short or to be very particular from Sahi Bukhari, Muslim, Timidhi Abu Dawood, Nisayee and Abu Maja.

These are the only books which is believed to be correct regarding saying of prophet.

Problem it that we don't read such books. Forget about that bohras are not allowed to read Qurab with translations.

Whatever people are quoting here is taken from Waez or Sabaks. Such quotes doen't stand valid while you are quoting it on open forum.

Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#135

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:45 am

Bihar al anwar?

Fortune-telling from “Bihar al anwar”
http://gift2shias.com/2010/03/08/fortun ... l-anwar-2/

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#136

Unread post by stranger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:04 am

mustafanalwalla wrote:
@ Bro Stranger - Thank you. i am indebted to you for adding to my knowledge
Anytime bro.
but I was just a medium. .All thanks to Allah, the Almighty, who is blessing us with the knowledge and light .

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#137

Unread post by stranger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:07 am

Hussain_KSA / Muslim First,
Could you please qoute a single reference from sahai Sitta ( six books) in short or to be very particular from Sahi Bukhari, Muslim, Timidhi Abu Dawood, Nisayee and Abu Maja.
would you believe everything i qoute from above mentioned books ?

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#138

Unread post by porus » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:19 am

Hussain_KSA wrote:
Could you please qoute a single reference from sahai Sitta ( six books) in short or to be very particular from Sahi Bukhari, Muslim, Timidhi Abu Dawood, Nisayee and Abu Maja.

These are the only books which is believed to be correct regarding saying of prophet.
That is correct. In any discussion with Sunnis, it is not appropriate to quote a Shia or specifically Bohra hadith. They will simply reject them. Shia do not trust Sunni hadith because a large number of hadiths have been attributed to those considered to be enemies of Ahl-e-bayt as understood by the Shia.

Sunnis do not return the favor by quoting the Shia hadith because they either simply do know them or they reject them without giving them much thought.

Unfortunately, Bohras are unable to distinguish between hadith and legend. And their teachers do not much care to tell them because their purpose is to instill slavery not education.

Sunni hadith were all compiled 200 years after the death of the Prophet and relies on reported isnads. Isnad did not have a tradition of hifz like we have had for the Quran since the days of the Prophet. So their accuracy is always questionable. However, the Shia use them because Sunnis believe they are as true as the Quran.

Shia hadith are those that are attributed to Prophet by Ali or Imams of Ahl-e-bayt. Bohra hadith include hadith narrated by of their 21 Imams and re-narrated by their 52 Dais. So it appears that their chain is continuous and there is only one clearly identified person who is held to be beyond any doubt in the chain.

However, it is difficult to obtain their words in print except those that have been widely distributed.

Dais, especially the current Dai, are very fond of using popular legends which are picked up Bohras as ''true'. They are similar to what the forum member 'stranger' mentioned above. They reinforce faith but are spurious and serious scholars would not give much credence to them.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#139

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:56 am

Not only that but even when quoting from Sunni sources, try not to quote out of context and erroneously. For eg. stranger said Tafseer ibn kathir spoke about the two things that prophet left behind for the ummah.

20. Tafsir Ibn Kathir (complete version), v4, p113, under commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran (four traditions)

When I checked, I didn't find what stranger said is there. Here is the commentary of 42:23 from the english translation of Tafseer Ibn Kathir.
Having mentioned the gardens of Paradise, Allah then says to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds:

(That is whereof Allah gives glad tidings to His servants who believe and do righteous good deeds.) meaning, this will undoubtedly come to them, because it is glad tidings from Allah to them.

(Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except to be kind to me for my kinship with you.'') means, `say, O Muhammad, to these idolators among the disbeliever of Quraysh: I do not ask you for anything in return for this message and sincere advice which I bring to you. All I ask of you is that you withhold your evil from me and let me convey the Messages of my Lord. If you will not help me, then do not disturb me, for the sake of the ties of kinship that exist between you and I.' Al-Bukhari recorded that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, was asked about the Ayah:

(except to be kind to me for my kinship with you.) Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "To be kind to the family of Muhammad.'' Ibn `Abbas said, "No, you have jumped to a hasty conclusion. There was no clan among Quraysh to whom the Prophet did not have some ties of kinship.'' Ibn `Abbas said, "Except that you uphold the ties of kinship that exist between me and you.'' This was recorded by Al-Bukhari. It was also recorded by Imam Ahmad with a different chain of narration.

(And whoever earns a good righteous deed, We shall give him an increase of good in respect thereof) means, `whoever does a good deed, We will increase him in good for it, i.e., in reward.' This is like the Ayah:

(Surely, Allah wrongs not even of the weight of a speck of dust, but if there is any good, He doubles it, and gives from Him a great reward.) (4:40)

(Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate.) means, He forgives many bad deeds and increases a small amount of good deeds; He conceals and forgives sins and He multiplies and increases the reward of good deeds.





Can someone confirm. There is nothing over here about the 2 weighty things.
I haven't received any response from stranger. So I am wary of trusting any source mentioned by any abde over here because most of the sources mentioned are either lost or not freely available to verify.

Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#140

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:57 am

would you believe everything i qoute from above mentioned books ?
Personally, some but Not all of them. I am not hadeeth scholar.

II am minimalist,

I am happy reading Qur'an and translation, Praying 5 prayers within its specified times and believe in fasting. Personally cannot fast due to health reasons.
My motto: Allah ki Ibadat Karo aur Allah se Daro

Wasalaam

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#141

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:11 am

Sunnis do not return the favor by quoting the Shia hadith because they either simply do know them or they reject them without giving them much thought.
There is a valid reason for that.
Shia hadith are those that are attributed to Prophet by Ali or Imams of Ahl-e-bayt. Bohra hadith include hadith narrated by of their 21 Imams and re-narrated by their 52 Dais. So it appears that their chain is continuous and there is only one clearly identified person who is held to be beyond any doubt in the chain.
When the sunnis look at what the bohras of today are doing or what the Ismailies of today are doing, it becomes easy to reject the shia hadith.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#142

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:15 am

Forget about shia or sunni, can some one on this forum quote any such related saying of prophet about "Karbala" or " Hussain" in any Ismaili/Fatimi/Bohra books? It could be from any book, not necessarily jurisprudence.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#143

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:21 am

stranger wrote:Hussain_KSA / Muslim First,
Could you please qoute a single reference from sahai Sitta ( six books) in short or to be very particular from Sahi Bukhari, Muslim, Timidhi Abu Dawood, Nisayee and Abu Maja.
would you believe everything i qoute from above mentioned books ?
No I won't if it is against Quran. Even if you read saying of Imam Jafar ul Sadiq, he said. Anything which is against quran or sunnat should not be trusted at all.

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#144

Unread post by stranger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:45 pm

Hussain_KSA wrote: No I won't if it is against Quran. Even if you read saying of Imam Jafar ul Sadiq, he said. Anything which is against quran or sunnat should not be trusted at all.
When Bibi Khadija and Hazrat Abu Talib passed away, the Prophet (SAW) declared a year of grief. If mourning and grieving is not allowed as the Sunnis says, then the Prophet would not have done it.
So, shall we assume that today's Sunni schools knows the Quran better than the Prophet (SAW) ?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#145

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:16 pm

The Prophet (saw) didn't declare anything. It is known as the year of grief because of grief the prophet (saw) had to endure and the difficulty he had to face. He didn't keep grieving over the year of grief every year otherwise, like the abdes of today, he would always be grieving!!

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#146

Unread post by stranger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:36 pm

anajmi wrote:The Prophet (saw) didn't declare anything.
Then, who declared it ?

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#147

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:53 pm

Bro mustafanalwala/profastian,

Firstly it is surprising that you have not objected to progticide's post which too was unethical, i.e. if you view my post the same way. Anyway it is understandable that youll have a soft corner for him as he values the same school of thoughts as you do.

Now, whatever you have said is exactly like "ulta chor kotwal ko daate" because when I use the phrase 'muharrum tamasha' it was said so as that it is exactly what it is reduced to..... waiting anxiously to explore different continents in the name of mohurrum as it comes at a highly subsidised rate, the vayezin charging exhorbitant fees to deliver the sermons, the respective jamats having to shell out sums of monies which are unheard of, so on and so forth. I wouldnt elaborate much on this as a lot has been discussed on other threads and eventually established that the solemn month of mohurrum has lost its religious sanctity like before. Iam an ardent believer of Imam Hussain (a.s.) and Panjatan pak (a.s.) and for which I dont have to prove to anyone except my Allah (swt). It is this belief and love for these holy souls which is the reason that it hurts people like me when we see how this holy and solemn month is mocked at by the clergy due to their wrong actions and vested interests which is solely to make money at any and every given time. In fact I would be the first one to condemn anyone who mocks Panjatan Pak (a.s.) and this holy month which is exactly what I have done. It is a pity that the ones who call themselves the true believers of Panjatan Pak (a.s.) refuse to see the manner in which this holy month and the names of these holy souls are used to serve the vested interests of the clergy.

With regard to "rova jivu muh', even a child can conclude that this is sheer mockery in the name of 'gham-e-hussain". I, like any true believer of Imam Hussain (a.s.) would never object to the genuine grief expressed by someone in memory of these great souls but making a mockery of it is highly objectionable and that is exactly what is done in bohra masjids. Now, if you refuse to acknowledge the same then it is your prerogative which in any case is totally wrong.

In conclusion, kindly note that instead of pointing fingures at me you should actually do that for the ones who are making a mockery of this holy month and Panjatan Pak (a.s.) by instructing you to engage in acts which displays sheer mockery rather then "gham-e-hussain".

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#148

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:56 pm

Then, who declared it ?
No one has declared anything. The year the prophet (saw) was born is known as the year of the fil (surah fil). Similarly, the year the prophet (saw) suffered the most grief is known as the year of grief. He didn't grieve thinking about the year of grief. Seriously man, is that so difficult to understand?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#149

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:06 pm

so tell me stranger, of the sources that you posted, how many have you personally verified to be accurate? And what is the credibility of the source?

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: NASS CONFERRED

#150

Unread post by stranger » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:46 am

anajmi wrote: No one has declared anything. The year the prophet (saw) was born is known as the year of the fil (surah fil). Similarly, the year the prophet (saw) suffered the most grief is known as the year of grief. He didn't grieve thinking about the year of grief. Seriously man, is that so difficult to understand?
and what could been more grieving to prophet than, the martyrdom of his beloved grandson on the soil of karbala after 3 days of thirst and hunger, mercilessly.
Prophet said : ''Hussain-o-Minni wa Ana Minul Hussain”. ''Hussain is from me and I am from Hussain''
So, Can't we observe one day out of year, the sacrifice done by Hussain (A.S.) for his Ummah ?