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Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:21 am
by Al Zulfiqar
bro gm,
according to abde fanatic scholars on this board like adam, dai of the zamaan can change the rules as he wants and as required. his wisdom is supreme and sacrosanct and the past practices of dai's need not be followed. so, please do not ask such intelligent questions based on past precedent. they are irrelevant.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:26 am
by Al Zulfiqar
Maqbool wrote:As per Qaidjoharbhai Saheb Sayedna suffered a stroke before proclaiming nass. How he has spoken? It is a matter of investigation.
in fact, if a person speaks in a state of unconsciousness, it is referred to as "delirium".
as for the investigation part, since the 'nass' drama was staged in england, perhaps scotland yard should be officially involved. if they refuse, we should engage the legendary sleuth sherlock holmes to get to the bottom of the matter!
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:20 pm
by humanbeing
Video of Nuss not being played after that one event is a strong indication of ambiguous and unclear nuss conferred.
Since the 53rd appointment, suddenly the whole royals family has risen to some super divine levels and every tom and harry shehzada is relishing on ziafats left right and centre. Everyone trying to gather loyal rich fat abdes to sponsor their lives.
Personally speaking, mufaddal maula lacks the charm and ability to hold the audience with his speech, he seems too amateur to orate and seems casual or confused with his public address. He seems to be just a face and rest of brothers and childrens could be the master minds managing the show. While he could be submissive towing the line. Like Indian prime minister Man Mohan Singh !
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:49 pm
by Bohra spring
humanbeing wrote:
Personally speaking, mufaddal maula lacks the charm and ability to hold the audience with his speech, he seems too amateur to orate and seems casual or confused with his public address. He seems to be just a face and rest of brothers and childrens could be the master minds managing the show. While he could be submissive towing the line. Like Indian prime minister Man Mohan Singh !
No let us not use this excuse over and over...what is it with our psychology that we can not hold them accountable ? Who pulls the trigger, who hold the microphone ,
Re: u r in hell
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:51 pm
by wise_guy
Dear Khan badshah... Ur curses and abuses won't work here. If you want to really answer, then have some strong and meaningful comments that have some weight in them... Cursing and abusing shows ur real character. There are many who come here and start abusing only to make a fool of themselves
khanbadshah wrote:all who r speaking against mola n mansoos tus...they will see in thier selfs n in childrin that they will b no more.....
DAWAT YE OOJ PER HAY OOR OOUJ PER RAHAYGI
AADAA E DIN KI SUURAT RUUBAAHA JAYSEE HOGI
u bloody monkies
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:44 pm
by haqniwaat
Wiseguy should be asked on what basis he says mufaddal bs is dai? When according to dawat guidelines, if mazoon says whomever is dai, he's always been right about this. And mazoon says he IS dai. Mufaddal bs and his family have concocted a really big thing here, duping people into believing this zahirbatin nonsense and finally making mazoon obsolete, then utterling lanat on him. And to think that the mazoon of Alia Vohras came to meet mufaddal bs. How ironic. Even once if Syedna Burhanuddin would have done nas on him in public, but he did not. So in historical perspective, when nobody is sure, people have always gone to mazoon, not shezadehs, for the truth.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:34 am
by Adam
haqniwaat wrote:Wiseguy should be asked on what basis he says mufaddal bs is dai? When according to dawat guidelines, if mazoon says whomever is dai, he's always been right about this. And mazoon says he IS dai. Mufaddal bs and his family have concocted a really big thing here, duping people into believing this zahirbatin nonsense and finally making mazoon obsolete, then utterling lanat on him. And to think that the mazoon of Alia Vohras came to meet mufaddal bs. How ironic. Even once if Syedna Burhanuddin would have done nas on him in public, but he did not. So in historical perspective, when nobody is sure, people have always gone to mazoon, not shezadehs, for the truth.
INCORRECT.
No where in History was anyone "not sure".
It is the responsibility of the Imam and Dai to clearly identify his Mansoos to the public or to witnesses. If he doesn't, then he has not up held his responsibility.
No where did the Mazoon "declare" or "decide" who the new Dai is, let alone claim himself.
Please get your facts straight
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:26 pm
by haqniwaat
Hmmm. It's not a matter of deciding, it's a matter of believing. Who do you believe? Zaadas, who lied to Syedna Burhanuddin about the heptulla brothers trying to deport mazoon? Did you ever hear syedna utter a word in public waaz when he had the chance? Yes, he didn't utter for mazoon, either, but then again it comes back to who you trust. Thanks to the zahir batin nonsense that mufaddal bs believes, most people today don't know the importance of the position of mazoon. So the zaadas have done their duty - destroyed the mazoon, declared themselves winners, and chomping on their ill-gotten hams!
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:16 am
by Adam
@haqniwaat
Hmmm. It's not a matter of deciding, it's a matter of believing. Who do you believe? Zaadas, who lied to Syedna Burhanuddin about the heptulla brothers trying to deport mazoon? Did you ever hear syedna utter a word in public waaz when he had the chance? Yes, he didn't utter for mazoon,
Yes, it is a matter of believing. I believe Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA over ANYONE else.
Yes, I heard him name Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin and do Nass on him.
It is YOU who believe in KQ instead of the 52nd Dai.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:28 am
by truth seeker100
Adam wrote:@haqniwaat
Hmmm. It's not a matter of deciding, it's a matter of believing. Who do you believe? Zaadas, who lied to Syedna Burhanuddin about the heptulla brothers trying to deport mazoon? Did you ever hear syedna utter a word in public waaz when he had the chance? Yes, he didn't utter for mazoon,
Yes, it is a matter of believing. I believe Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA over ANYONE else.
Yes, I heard him name Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin and do Nass on him.
It is YOU who believe in KQ instead of the 52nd Dai.
blah blah blah. nobody cares about you or your fake dai muffy. he won't help you a bit in the hereafter so I suggest you start worshipping god and stop wasting your time worshipping a pathetic creature like muffy
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:29 am
by truth seeker100
Adam wrote:@haqniwaat
Hmmm. It's not a matter of deciding, it's a matter of believing. Who do you believe? Zaadas, who lied to Syedna Burhanuddin about the heptulla brothers trying to deport mazoon? Did you ever hear syedna utter a word in public waaz when he had the chance? Yes, he didn't utter for mazoon,
Yes, it is a matter of believing. I believe Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA over ANYONE else.
Yes, I heard him name Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin and do Nass on him.
It is YOU who believe in KQ instead of the 52nd Dai.
so you will believe SMB over Allah or prophet muhammad?
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:22 pm
by haqniwaat
Adam wrote:@haqniwaat
Yes, it is a matter of believing. I believe Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA over ANYONE else.
Yes, I heard him name Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin and do Nass on him.
It is YOU who believe in KQ instead of the 52nd Dai.
That's convenient. Believe Syedna Burhanuddin when you want. Well, the same Syedna Burhanuddin also created a mazoon, which muffadal bs never believed in. And let's not even get into the nass videos. We all know what technology can do nowadays.
And as far as mufaddal bs himself, he makes it clear he doesn't like the west, unlike his father, and he also doesn't like technology. Ask anyone who was in Chicago in 1986 when Burhanuddin Syedna visited the tech museum there. Mufaddal bs didn't come and his father even said that mufaddal bhai doesn't like these things. I thought muffadal bs said everything Burhanuddin Syedna does everyone should like. Hypocrite.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:26 pm
by AmmarHussaini
I am sure muffy was busy making rotis with his wife when SMB visited museum.
muffys interests are as follow
roti making
hunting innocent animals
lanating innocent people
collecting coconuts on every occasion
visiting places where he is not even invited
crossing railway tracks specially when train is about to arrive
making blunders in waezez
making scams
hugging yogi babajis
birthday bashes for person who is no more alive in physical world
purchasing bungalows on public funds
beating up people who ever speaks truth
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:33 pm
by AmmarHussaini
haqniwaat wrote:Adam wrote:@haqniwaat
That's convenient. Believe Syedna Burhanuddin when you want. Well, the same Syedna Burhanuddin also created a mazoon, which muffadal bs never believed in. And let's not even get into the nass videos. We all know what technology can do nowadays.
And as far as mufaddal bs himself, he makes it clear he doesn't like the west, unlike his father, and he also doesn't like technology. Ask anyone who was in Chicago in 1986 when Burhanuddin Syedna visited the tech museum there. Mufaddal bs didn't come and
his father even said that mufaddal bhai doesn't like these things. I thought muffadal bs said everything Burhanuddin Syedna does everyone should like. Hypocrite.
SMB has 7 sons, any reason why he particularly mentioned muffy?
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:38 pm
by haqniwaat
Because all of his other sons who were present came to the museum except mufaddal bs.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:40 pm
by haqniwaat
In fact, Syedna Burhanuddin even mentioned to the director there that he will send his grandson to learn more about technology.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:38 pm
by Adam
haqniwaat wrote:Adam wrote:@haqniwaat
That's convenient. Believe Syedna Burhanuddin when you want. Well, the same Syedna Burhanuddin also created a mazoon, which muffadal bs never believed in. And let's not even get into the nass videos. We all know what technology can do nowadays.
And as far as mufaddal bs himself, he makes it clear he doesn't like the west, unlike his father, and he also doesn't like technology. Ask anyone who was in Chicago in 1986 when Burhanuddin Syedna visited the tech museum there. Mufaddal bs didn't come and his father even said that mufaddal bhai doesn't like these things. I thought muffadal bs said everything Burhanuddin Syedna does everyone should like. Hypocrite.
We believe Syedna Burhanuddin on every thing.
1. When he appointed KQ as a Mazoon, we followed him.
2. When he did Nass on Syedna Mufaddal TUS, we followed him.
3. When Syedna Mufaddal became the new Dai, and removed KQ, we followed him.
4. Are you saying the Nass video was doctored? I was present in Raudat Tahera and I heard these words loud and clear. Besides, when the court proves it to be undoctored, that's the time you'll will have to make a life changing decision. Until then, sit tight.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:53 pm
by haqniwaat
Yeah, let's see what the court has to say about zahir batin and terrorism by mufaddal bs and his thugs.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:58 pm
by haqniwaat
We believe Syedna Burhanuddin on every thing.
1. When he appointed KQ as a Mazoon, we followed him.
Really? ! Followed him by calling his mazoon a munafiq, and every other name under the sun. Then creating this grand theory of zahir batin to completely demonize the mazoon? ! You can lie all you want but not everyone is an idiot.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:25 pm
by New
Ammar bhai, pleas explain where he went uninvited. I thought Muffy does not go any where unless a catche of cash is promised. The phatak story is incomplete, the train would have come to screetching halt, would have done sajado, ask for shifa and after the phoonk, the green signal would have been given.
Here is a kisso, Shatabdi train was manipulated to stop at Surat station for SMB and air plane waited for him. No care for people's time.
Sorry off the track, Muffy flirted with an air hostess.
Where in the world he owns bunglows?
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:53 pm
by truth seeker100
Adam let me ask you a serious question
will not believing in a dai according to you make people go to hell?
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:19 am
by haqniwaat
truth seeker100 wrote:Adam let me ask you a serious question
will not believing in a dai according to you make people go to hell?
Adam and I will both agree on this, and the answer is yes. Because according to Dawoodi Bohra doctrine, only the Dai can take you to heaven, in the abode of Imam al Zamaan. And that is why love of the Dai is vital to our belief, rather the center of our belief.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:58 am
by truth seeker100
haqniwaat wrote:truth seeker100 wrote:Adam let me ask you a serious question
will not believing in a dai according to you make people go to hell?
Adam and I will both agree on this, and the answer is yes. Because according to Dawoodi Bohra doctrine, only the Dai can take you to heaven, in the abode of Imam al Zamaan. And that is why love of the Dai is vital to our belief, rather the center of our belief.
ok so according to you namaaz and rosa and good deeds won't help you go to heaven but the dai will?
and can you show me proof from the quran or hadiths to back up your claim
I personally don't believe that by not believing in a. dai I will go to hell, I will just pray namaaz and follow the pillars of islam. this whole dai concept is a just an innovation
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:54 am
by haqniwaat
ok so according to you namaaz and rosa and good deeds won't help you go to heaven but the dai will?
and can you show me proof from the quran or hadiths to back up your claim
I personally don't believe that by not believing in a. dai I will go to hell, I will just pray namaaz and follow the pillars of islam. this whole dai concept is a just an innovation
Hmmm. Well, if you don't believe in the Dai, then you're not
any kind of Bohra. The primary belief of all Bohras, Dawoodi, Alawi, etc. is the belief in the Dai as the representative of the 21st Imam and the present Imam of the day. So I'm a bit confused as to why you would even want to linger on this "Bohra" group.
According to Fatimid belief, only the love for the Imam (and the Dai when the Imam is in seclusion) can get you to heaven, because he himself takes you there.
And as far as proof from the Quran regarding Imam and Dai, we have the proof. If you had listened to Syedna Burhanuddin's sermons, you would have known that by now. Good luck!
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:22 pm
by truth seeker100
haqniwaat wrote:ok so according to you namaaz and rosa and good deeds won't help you go to heaven but the dai will?
and can you show me proof from the quran or hadiths to back up your claim
I personally don't believe that by not believing in a. dai I will go to hell, I will just pray namaaz and follow the pillars of islam. this whole dai concept is a just an innovation
Hmmm. Well, if you don't believe in the Dai, then you're not
any kind of Bohra. The primary belief of all Bohras, Dawoodi, Alawi, etc. is the belief in the Dai as the representative of the 21st Imam and the present Imam of the day. So I'm a bit confused as to why you would even want to linger on this "Bohra" group.
According to Fatimid belief, only the love for the Imam (and the Dai when the Imam is in seclusion) can get you to heaven, because he himself takes you there.
And as far as proof from the Quran regarding Imam and Dai, we have the proof. If you had listened to Syedna Burhanuddin's sermons, you would have known that by now. Good luck!
again if you are so confident about your beliefs why can't you show me proof from the quran which says love for the imam will send you to heaven. and why would I listen to SMB bayaans when I don't belive in him. again show me proof before you talk. this is the problem I have with bohris, you guys blindly follow whitout knowing the facts first. love for the imam isn't going to get you to heaven. following the five pillars and doing good deeds will. I can show you proof if you want.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:41 pm
by haqniwaat
We don't believe in five pillars, we believe in seven. I don't even think you're Shia, so why are you even bothering us on this board. Please go away to your terrorist Wahabi friends who have ruined the name of Islam!
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:25 pm
by Humsafar
haqniwaat wrote:ok so according to you namaaz and rosa and good deeds won't help you go to heaven but the dai will?
and can you show me proof from the quran or hadiths to back up your claim
I personally don't believe that by not believing in a. dai I will go to hell, I will just pray namaaz and follow the pillars of islam. this whole dai concept is a just an innovation
Hmmm. Well, if you don't believe in the Dai, then you're not
any kind of Bohra. The primary belief of all Bohras, Dawoodi, Alawi, etc. is the belief in the Dai as the representative of the 21st Imam and the present Imam of the day. So I'm a bit confused as to why you would even want to linger on this "Bohra" group.
According to Fatimid belief, only the love for the Imam (and the Dai when the Imam is in seclusion) can get you to heaven, because he himself takes you there.
And as far as proof from the Quran regarding Imam and Dai, we have the proof. If you had listened to Syedna Burhanuddin's sermons, you would have known that by now. Good luck!
The distortion of the concept of wilayat into "love for Dai" is a devious invention made by the past two self-serving Dais. Walayat is binding on Ahlal Bayt and their progeny, which would mean the Imam. The Dai is only a representative of the Imam and can be chosen from among people for his knowledge, integrity, wisdom and leadership. The quarelling dais of today have none of these qualities, although one seems far better than the other partly because the other one is everything a Dai should not be. Even so, it is wrong and malicious to equate walayat to "love of dai". The dai is a mere functionary of the dawat, his position has not been granted any power, historically or doctrinally, to dispense salvation or jannat. There is no mention of it any of the Bohra source books. The Imam is the perfect one according our faith and he will ultimately lead believers to salvation. Dai has no role to play in this matter. Moreover, look at the Dais of recent history whose characters have been found wanting and whose practices have bordered on blasphemy, They are in greater need of salvation. May Imam and God help them.
So what are Bohras supposed to do with flawed Dais, not one but two. Well if you actually believe in the Ismaili -Tayyebi doctrine of Imamat then you must pray like hell for the Imam to come out hiding and hope for the best. Allah will judge you not by whether you followed a particular Dai but whether you stood for truth and justice or whether you sumbitted to the blandishments of false Dais. Those who do not follow the doctrine to the letter, they have the Quran, Prophet and Ahlal Bayt to follow. In either option the Dai is a good as a dodo.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:35 pm
by haqniwaat
Well, like I said before, this belief that you are talking about is not a Bohra belief. So why argue about it with Bohras? It's a waste of time.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:47 pm
by Humsafar
No sir, you cannot deny this without explanation. We want to see how you stretch the concept of walayat to "love of Dai". And please quote Bohra source books and Bohra traidition. "Bohra belief" is not what you say it is. It has history, tradition and rooted in Bohra literature. And since you are making the claim the onus is on you to prove it.
Once again, from this paramount importance given to the Dai by the acolytes of both quarreling dais it is clear that at the core they are the same- cut from the same cloth, both devoted to power, position and pelf.
Re: NASS CONFERRED
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:53 pm
by DisillusionedDB
@Humsafar, referring to your 2 latest posts above ... "Perfectly said". The elevation of the Dai to almost a divine status in the past 100 years smacks of twisting facts (and twisting arms) to suit profiting for power and money.