VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

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SAJJAD
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 4:01 am

VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#1

Unread post by SAJJAD » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:30 pm

Is Vasheqs, Thumb Vasheq that Bohris pray during month of Rajab, Shabaan and Ramadan is an innovation by Bohri Clergy? There is no such Namaz among mainstream Muslims Shia or Sunni.

Same token they recite Nabi Na Naam right after last Friday of the month of Ramadan till the Eid-ul-Fitr.

Brother Porus can share his views on these topics.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#2

Unread post by porus » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:02 am

There are different narratives accepted by different sects about history and about rituals.

Sunnis in the main follow practices of the Khilafat of Abu Bakr/Umar, Uthman/Muawiyah/Yazid and Banu Abbas. It is their scholar's interpretation of the Sunna of the Prophet. Some on this board accept extremist interpretation of these narratives to be 'true'. They serve an important reminder that it is better to follow 'ulul amr' as Quran defines them rather than any Tom, Dick and Harry who happens to have read a few translations of the Quran and Sunna.

Bohras follow the narrative and practices of the Imams of Ahlul Bayt, which include Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain and their heirs Imam Zain al-Abideen and Imam Jafar al-Sadiq. It means that Sunna includes only the narrative from these pious predecessors. They believe that it is the 'true' narrative.

Allah knows best.

You must make a choice. Who do you believe is more pious and worthy of being followed. Banu Umayya/Banu Abbas or the Imams of Ahlul Bayt?

Washeqs and 'Nabi na Naam' are the recommended practices of Awliyas (Illustrious pious ancestors which include Imams and Duat). These have been a source spiritual sustenance of Bohras and other Shia for generations. I do not find anything objectionable in them.

Washeqs are modelled after fard prayers as are all sunna and nafal prayers. Between niyyat and salaam in every rakaat there is nothing except praise and worship of Allah. The only objection Sunnis might have is that Amirul Mumineen, Ali ibn Abi Talib is referred to as the best of Wali (Ni'amal Waliyyu) in their tashahud. Wahhabis may also object to Muhammad's reference as the best of Messengers (Ni'amal Rasulu) in their tashahud. If they do object then they can lump it. Both Muhammad and Ali are referred to in the Quran as 'free of rijs', that is free from any contamination of faith.

Most prayer for Laylatul Qadr are two raka'at namaaz for parents, children, Imams etc. However, between niyyat and salaam they are not mentioned. Only Allah's praises are mentioned. Some prayers are waseelas which Wahhabis will object to but not the majority of Sunnis.

'Nabi na Naam' is invoking blessings and salaams on all the Nabis as well as upon mankind's 'mother', Hawwa. Who could possibly object to that?

faisala
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:17 am

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#3

Unread post by faisala » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:26 am

Dear thanks for bringing up this topic, i was lloooking foward to raise a question is to why was vasheqs prayed by our dawoodi bohras whereas our nabi never prayed or nither is it mentioned in hadith of our nabi to pray vasheqs? Kindly reply with proper and true findigs and would appreciate if people don't raise a debate on this topic and rather get a clear view and understanding.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#4

Unread post by porus » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:35 am

faisala wrote:Dear thanks for bringing up this topic, i was lloooking foward to raise a question is to why was vasheqs prayed by our dawoodi bohras whereas our nabi never prayed or nither is it mentioned in hadith of our nabi to pray vasheqs? Kindly reply with proper and true findigs and would appreciate if people don't raise a debate on this topic and rather get a clear view and understanding.
Are you certain that Nabi never prayed washeq?

What do you think Nabi did in response to the revelation of surat al-muzzammil?

What type of tahajjud prayers did Nabi perform?

I think that I will let brother aqs answer you questions. It is right up his street

accountability
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#5

Unread post by accountability » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:24 am

Porus: thnaks for explaining.

Brtoher Aqs can you please explain, where porus has left.

Biradar
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Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#6

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:04 pm

The vasheq namaaz as Bohras perform them were taught by Sayedna Ibrahim al-Hamidi, the second da'i al-mutlak. Sayedna Ibrahim was an accomplished scholar, specially of haqaiq and taawil literature. His book Kanz al-Walad is a very important work on Ismaili cosmology and cosmogony. He was also the first da'i to explicitly claim that the rasail of the Ikhwan as-Safa were Ismaili and, in particular, written by or under the guidance of Imam Ahmed al-Mastur. In a certain sense he represents the final stage in the development of Ismaili metaphysics.

Now, this does not mean that Sayedna Ibrahim invented the vasheq namaaz. In fact, it is highly likely that these were being performed already but not in a systematic and codified form. He made these systematic and has embedded many symbols of haqaiq in the number of rakaa, the duas etc. During this time (i.e. the early years after the occultation of Imam Tayeb) there was a lot of systemization of prayers. For example, Sayedna Mohammad bin Taher al-Harithi wrote the bavisa duas, which are regularly offered by Bohras as part of night prayers.

Also, we should not be too worried about what the Prophet did not do. He laid down general guidelines based on the Quran. The vasheq prayers do not violate any such guidelines. I agree with Porus and think that there is nothing objectionable in them. Also, there are not required. You can skip them if you wish.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#7

Unread post by porus » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:43 pm

Biradar wrote: Now, this does not mean that Sayedna Ibrahim invented the vasheq namaaz. In fact, it is highly likely that these were being performed already but not in a systematic and codified form. He made these systematic and has embedded many symbols of haqaiq in the number of rakaa, the duas etc. During this time (i.e. the early years after the occultation of Imam Tayeb) there was a lot of systemization of prayers. For example, Sayedna Mohammad bin Taher al-Harithi wrote the bavisa duas, which are regularly offered by Bohras as part of night prayers.
Biradar, that is a good explanatory contribution.

I would like to add a comment on the word washeq (وشيق). This word means “yearning to be in embrace of Allah”. It is derived from the word shawq (شوق), which means desire or yearning. It was Prophet’s practice to spend long periods of night in prayer. We say that he was praying washeq. This practice was confirmed in the revelation of Surat al-Muzzammil.

babu
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Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#8

Unread post by babu » Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:52 pm

Ask your Peeru Mulla Of Udaipur ,,,, Kyon Insaaph Saab Kya Khyaal Hai ??? :D

babu
Posts: 210
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Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#9

Unread post by babu » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:43 pm

AB KOI BOLO ??????????????? where are all your SAMAJHDAAR ??????

Pratahhkaal Newspaper Udaipur
Wednesday, 17 August 2011 20:55

उदयपुर। रमजान के पवित्र माह में बोहरवाड़ी स्थित वजीहपुरा मस्जिद में रमजान की अजमत पर रोशनी डालते हुए मुल्ला पीर अली ने कहा कि खुदा उन लोगों की दुआएं जरूर कबूल करता है जो सच्चे मन से इबादत करते हैं। रमजान इबादतों का महीना है, जिसमें की गई इबादत का सवाब ७० गुना अधिक मिलता है। दाउदी बोहरा जमात (बोहरा यूथ) के प्रवक्ता अनीस मिंयाजी ने बताया कि रमजान की इबादतों में रोजे-नमाज के साथ-साथ ईशा की नमाज के बाद विशेष 'वशेकÓ की नमाज भी प्रारंभ हो गई है, जो आखिरी रोजे तक जारी होगी। दाउदी बोहरा जमात रविवार को शबे कद्र मनायेगा। इधर गरीब व जरूरतमंदों में जकात-फीतरा अदा करने का सिलसिला भी शुरू हो गया है। जमात की शहर में स्थित मस्जिदों में 'वशेकÓ की खास नमाज अदा की जा रही है। रविवार को मनाये जाने वाली शबे कद्र की तैयारियां भी की जा रही हैं

anajmi
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Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#10

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:18 pm

इधर गरीब व जरूरतमंदों में जकात-फीतरा अदा करने का सिलसिला भी शुरू हो गया है।

Aur udhar zakaat aur fitra Dai aur unke chamchon mein ada karne ka silsila bhi shuru ho gaya hai.

Baskin
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:23 pm

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#11

Unread post by Baskin » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:15 am

babu wrote:AB KOI BOLO ??????????????? where are all your SAMAJHDAAR ??????

Pratahhkaal Newspaper Udaipur
Wednesday, 17 August 2011 20:55

उदयपुर। रमजान के पवित्र माह में बोहरवाड़ी स्थित वजीहपुरा मस्जिद में रमजान की अजमत पर रोशनी डालते हुए मुल्ला पीर अली ने कहा कि खुदा उन लोगों की दुआएं जरूर कबूल करता है जो सच्चे मन से इबादत करते हैं। रमजान इबादतों का महीना है, जिसमें की गई इबादत का सवाब ७० गुना अधिक मिलता है। दाउदी बोहरा जमात (बोहरा यूथ) के प्रवक्ता अनीस मिंयाजी ने बताया कि रमजान की इबादतों में रोजे-नमाज के साथ-साथ ईशा की नमाज के बाद विशेष 'वशेकÓ की नमाज भी प्रारंभ हो गई है, जो आखिरी रोजे तक जारी होगी। दाउदी बोहरा जमात रविवार को शबे कद्र मनायेगा। इधर गरीब व जरूरतमंदों में जकात-फीतरा अदा करने का सिलसिला भी शुरू हो गया है। जमात की शहर में स्थित मस्जिदों में 'वशेकÓ की खास नमाज अदा की जा रही है। रविवार को मनाये जाने वाली शबे कद्र की तैयारियां भी की जा रही हैं
Classic example of nerds hijacking a very good discussion/post. Here it was from a DB and elsewhere I have noticed from PDBs.
Shouldn't Admin interfere to delete such senseless, meaningless, making fun, deviating from the topic, abusive, ... posts.
BTW I am (as you say) Orthodox.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
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Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#12

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:12 am

Can someone also explain in Nabi names why Lahawla Wala kuwata is recited before the nabis names ?

Is it accidental or intentional?

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#13

Unread post by porus » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:55 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Can someone also explain in Nabi names why Lahawla Wala kuwata is recited before the nabis names ?

Is it accidental or intentional?
In prayers, everything is intentional.

'Nabi na naam' is just a name of the tasbeeh.

'la hawl' is preceded by subhanallah, al-hamdu lillah and astaghfirullah. They all acknowledge supremacy of Allah.

Hawwa is included among the names. She was neither prophet nor messenger.

It names the most important six prophets individually and then goes on to invoke blessings and peace on all the prophets and messengers (jami' al-anbiya wal mursaleen).

It ends with 'isti'adha', taking refuge in Allah from Shaytan.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#14

Unread post by porus » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:39 am

'Nabi na naam' is a perfect example how tasbeeh should be designed. It is not a recitation of 'nabi na naam' but a prayer addressed to Allah to invoke blessings and peace upon prophets, messengers and Hawwa. Every 'naam' is preceded by the words 'allahumma salli 'ala..' i.e. asking Allah to bless it.

What would not be 'cool' would be to have tasbeeh addressed to anyone other than Allah. For example it is travesty of Bohra tradition to recite "Ya Muhammad", Ya Ali" etc as a tasbeeh on your musallah. This invocation goes against the glorious repository of Bohra prayers.

However, it would be within tradition to invoke 'waseela' of the pious.

ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#15

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon May 23, 2016 5:30 pm

SAJJAD wrote:Is Vasheqs, Thumb Vasheq that Bohris pray during month of Rajab, Shabaan and Ramadan is an innovation by Bohri Clergy? There is no such Namaz among mainstream Muslims Shia or Sunni.
watsup msg:

Forwarded as Received :-

Origin of Vashek!

So-called vashek is a supernumerary (a nafal or nafilat) set of rakaats instituted by past Dais as their prescriptions for obtaining extra rewards (sawaab) on holy days. These prescriptions started with the 11th Dai of Yemen, when he introduced vashek for the 17th Ramazan. Later, other Dais gave their own prescriptions. It is thought that Shab-e-baraat vashek was instituted by the 19th Dai. The word vashek has never been used by the Dais although some old saheefas use the word. The word Vashek has interesting origin.

When the Dais moved to India, the word namaaz, which is Farsi for Salaat, was the one used by Muslims in India. However Bohras, who were mostly Gujaratis, called this additional prayer for holy days 'vishesta (વિશેષતા) namaaz'. Vishesta is a Gujarati word meaning extra, specialty or excellence.

The phrase 'Vishesta (વિશેષતા) namaaz' gradually got transformed into 'Vashek namaaz. It has purely a colloquial and no literary merit can be ascribed to it.

Dua for Momeen
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Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#16

Unread post by Dua for Momeen » Mon May 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Praying extra namaz should not be an issue ever, btw there is many many nafil namaz in sunni+shia.

sunnis just dont pray 14 rakat, but they also stay awake whole night and fast next day.

seeker110
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Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: VASHEQS AND NABI NA NAAM

#17

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue May 24, 2016 12:56 am

If you keep adding sugar, it will become more sweeter.