iddat in bohras gross violation of human rights???

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bohrabhai
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Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

Re: iddat in bohras gross violation of human rights???

#181

Unread post by bohrabhai » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:22 am

Screenshot_2015-03-28-10-41-06.png
Screenshot_2015-03-28-10-40-48.png
Rules of bohra woman house arrest.



Shammu
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:54 am

#182

Unread post by Shammu » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:30 pm

I am agree it is the gross violation of human right. And need some thing must be done to eleminate this abuse system. It is only possible if the bohra women stand up and fight this evil system.



New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

#183

Unread post by New » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:25 am

Please, see my posts on page 6 with my thoughts. Equal rights or wrongs, man should sit for 4 months and 10 days. Amtes do not sit, stand up for your rights. Stone age custom. Do not expect any fatwa from Muffy as he is you know who and what he is...



New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

#184

Unread post by New » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:36 am

Bohrabhai, please explain who wrote these documents? It is a hybrid of multi languages. They tell you what you can not do and very cleverly not tell you what you can and should do to pass time.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#185

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:54 pm

New wrote:Bohrabhai, please explain who wrote these documents? It is a hybrid of multi languages. They tell you what you can not do and very cleverly not tell you what you can and should do to pass time.
The number one item on the list of time pass will be "Roti making" !!



dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

#186

Unread post by dawedaar » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:35 am

I think, the strict rules in Islam were introduced according to the circumstances in Arabia that existed in those times. Arabs were and still known to be quite uncivilized/nomadic and considered/consider women as just sex objects... Its only oil and gas which have made the Arabs pretty rich off lately but by character and behavior, they still remain uncivilized, inhuman, and arrogant. Arabs act on their whims and fancy as can be seen today by their decision to attack Yemen... Now, whether the rules should be changed, who has the authority to change is out of question so the rules will continue till the end of the world!



SBM
Posts: 6193
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#187

Unread post by SBM » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:51 am

^
Br Dawedaar
Remember the Dawaat originated from Yemen, a part of Arabia.So now we know why the current occupants of Saify Mahal are arrogant and uncivilized since they have Arab blood.



Biradar
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#188

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:56 am

Iddat, was prescribed, very likely, as a means to establish paternity. If a woman were to marry someone else very soon after her husband's death, and became pregnant, it would be complicated to establish who the father was. This would in turn lead to complications in inheritance etc. Notice that only "mehram" men are allowed to see the widow, as these can not marry her, giving credence to this idea.

These days, pregnancy can be established in about 5 minutes using kits available in any pharmacy. Hence, the original motivation for iddat are no longer relevant. However, iddat has now mutated into a sort of ritual, which is imposed on women by mad mullahs. It is an ultimate form of humiliation, as it tells women that they can't be trusted to keep their legs together. Of course, no such requirement is imposed on men.

However, I would not call it "gross violation of human rights". Islam, in many ways, has very negative views about women. This is just a peculiar manner in which bohras express their disgust for women. There are far worse things: FGM, ordering women to sit in the corner of the home, forcing them to adopt particular dress code are even bigger violations of human rights. These take away fundamental free agency from women, keeping them perpetual subjugation of men.



SBM
Posts: 6193
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#189

Unread post by SBM » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:58 pm

However, I would not call it "gross violation of human rights". Islam
Br Biradar
I agree with you that Iddat may not be gross violation of Human rights in ISLAM but here we are discussing about the rituals of Iddat in Bohras, How do yo justify asking a 78 year old woman to sit in the corner of house not to read newspaper, not watch TV, do not see the mirror and confined her to a small self created prison. It seems like BOHRA Iddat in nothing more than a SATI of Hinduism, both barbaric and BOHRA IDDAT has nothing to to with ISLAMIC IDDAT



Biradar
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#190

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:00 pm

SBM wrote:
However, I would not call it "gross violation of human rights". Islam
Br Biradar
I agree with you that Iddat may not be gross violation of Human rights in ISLAM but here we are discussing about the rituals of Iddat in Bohras, How do yo justify asking a 78 year old woman to sit in the corner of house not to read newspaper, not watch TV, do not see the mirror and confined her to a small self created prison. It seems like BOHRA Iddat in nothing more than a SATI of Hinduism, both barbaric and BOHRA IDDAT has nothing to to with ISLAMIC IDDAT
I agree with your points. Many rituals in religions, for example, the Bohra interpretation of Islam, are absurd and ridiculous. It is time to put these behind us and catch up somewhat with rest of the world. Bohras in particular are very superstitious (auspicious times, strange rituals to obtain successes …) and such absurd things should be examined and discarded. Bohra iddat is one such absurd custom.



New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

#191

Unread post by New » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:42 pm

Can some one explain why mehramdar marados are allowed. It seems no one has heared of incest leading to children. So why not ban ALL the marados for zero percent chance of pregnancy.



Biradar
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#192

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:25 pm

New wrote:Can some one explain why mehramdar marados are allowed. It seems no one has heared of incest leading to children. So why not ban ALL the marados for zero percent chance of pregnancy.
The goal is to make it otherwise legal relationships impossible. Obviously, one can't prevent or take into account every possibility, like incest or some lover climbing in from the window, etc. However, there is no logic to these things. Religious injunctions are often of this sort. They don't make sense when you look at them closely. A good option to not think too much about it.



asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

#193

Unread post by asad » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:16 am

Biradar wrote:Iddat, was prescribed, very likely, as a means to establish paternity. If a woman were to marry someone else very soon after her husband's death, and became pregnant, it would be complicated to establish who the father was. This would in turn lead to complications in inheritance etc. Notice that only "mehram" men are allowed to see the widow, as these can not marry her, giving credence to this idea.

These days, pregnancy can be established in about 5 minutes using kits available in any pharmacy. Hence, the original motivation for iddat are no longer relevant. However, iddat has now mutated into a sort of ritual, which is imposed on women by mad mullahs. It is an ultimate form of humiliation, as it tells women that they can't be trusted to keep their legs together. Of course, no such requirement is imposed on men.

However, I would not call it "gross violation of human rights". Islam, in many ways, has very negative views about women. This is just a peculiar manner in which bohras express their disgust for women. There are far worse things: FGM, ordering women to sit in the corner of the home, forcing them to adopt particular dress code are even bigger violations of human rights. These take away fundamental free agency from women, keeping them perpetual subjugation of men.
Iddat was prescribed not only to ascertain paternity but a bereaved woman is in a emotional and vulnerable state and there are man out who will like to take advantage of her in such state hence Iddat was prescribed. I am talking about Islamic iddat and not the one practiced by Bohras.



New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

#194

Unread post by New » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:17 am

No Biradar bhai, not to think is not an option. Thinking is and should be 24/7. Otherwise you will be taken for a ride for some Palkhiwala, buggywala, and Rolsrosycewala.



disillusioned
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:46 pm

#195

Unread post by disillusioned » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:46 am

asad wrote:
Biradar wrote:Iddat, was prescribed, very likely, as a means to establish paternity. If a woman were to marry someone else very soon after her husband's death, and became pregnant, it would be complicated to establish who the father was. This would in turn lead to complications in inheritance etc. Notice that only "mehram" men are allowed to see the widow, as these can not marry her, giving credence to this idea.

These days, pregnancy can be established in about 5 minutes using kits available in any pharmacy. Hence, the original motivation for iddat are no longer relevant. However, iddat has now mutated into a sort of ritual, which is imposed on women by mad mullahs. It is an ultimate form of humiliation, as it tells women that they can't be trusted to keep their legs together. Of course, no such requirement is imposed on men.

However, I would not call it "gross violation of human rights". Islam, in many ways, has very negative views about women. This is just a peculiar manner in which bohras express their disgust for women. There are far worse things: FGM, ordering women to sit in the corner of the home, forcing them to adopt particular dress code are even bigger violations of human rights. These take away fundamental free agency from women, keeping them perpetual subjugation of men.
Iddat was prescribed not only to ascertain paternity but a bereaved woman is in a emotional and vulnerable state and there are man out who will like to take advantage of her in such state hence Iddat was prescribed. I am talking about Islamic iddat and not the one practiced by Bohras.
LOL, these "I'm exploiting you for your own protection" excuses are lame, condescending and tbh, embarrassing. How about treating women like mature adults who can take care of themselves and make their own decisions.



Biradar
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#196

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:09 am

New wrote:No Biradar bhai, not to think is not an option. Thinking is and should be 24/7. Otherwise you will be taken for a ride for some Palkhiwala, buggywala, and Rolsrosycewala.
I agree. Hence, we see A.C. Buggywala Muffadul is taking everyone for a ride. A problem primarily caused by unthinking bohras, several of who we see on this forum itself. They won't even question the most loony-tunes pronouncement by their "more-las". Perfect examples of unthinking zombies.



Biradar
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#197

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:24 am

disillusioned wrote:
asad wrote:
Iddat was prescribed not only to ascertain paternity but a bereaved woman is in a emotional and vulnerable state and there are man out who will like to take advantage of her in such state hence Iddat was prescribed. I am talking about Islamic iddat and not the one practiced by Bohras.
LOL, these "I'm exploiting you for your own protection" excuses are lame, condescending and tbh, embarrassing. How about treating women like mature adults who can take care of themselves and make their own decisions.
Very well said. There is a strong streak of sexism and even misogyny among 99% of Muslims. Part of the problem comes from fundamental (mis)interpretation of scriptures themselves. Part of it is the general patriarchal culture in which Islam has taken root.

If you notice the attitudes displayed by Dawedar Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin (LA), women must sit in corner, should sew, cook and take care of kids, study only home science, should be forced to wear rida otherwise kicked out of the house, you will notice all the symptoms of misogyny and sexism. Not surprising that his followers are similar. As the saying goes "Jaisa Raja, waisee praja".



dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

#198

Unread post by dawedaar » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:46 pm

Do not behave like abdes. There was no need for LA suffix.... Whats the difference then?
Biradar wrote:

If you notice the attitudes displayed by Dawedar Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin (LA), women must sit in corner, should sew, cook and take care of kids, study only home science, should be forced to wear rida otherwise kicked out of the house, you will notice all the symptoms of misogyny and sexism. Not surprising that his followers are similar. As the saying goes "Jaisa Raja, waisee praja".



Biradar
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#199

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:34 pm

dawedaar wrote:Do not behave like abdes. There was no need for LA suffix.... Whats the difference then?
Thank you for the advice. But, no thanks. Try not to control what people do. If you feel you should behave in a particular way, please do so. The difference between an "abde" is that I don't accept anything at face value, and don't hold anything particularly sacred. However, I do feel strongly about somethings, specially about the Dawedar Muffadul (LA) who has taken over an otherwise nice community and turned it into a mockery of its former self. If you don't like me using LA suffix, you can put me on ignore and don't have to read what I write.



dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

#200

Unread post by dawedaar » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:07 pm

Lol.. got so agitated.. if u criticize others.. u must also have the heart to accept criticism properly rathern than telling me to ignore u!
Biradar wrote:
dawedaar wrote:Do not behave like abdes. There was no need for LA suffix.... Whats the difference then?
Thank you for the advice. But, no thanks. Try not to control what people do. If you feel you should behave in a particular way, please do so. The difference between an "abde" is that I don't accept anything at face value, and don't hold anything particularly sacred. However, I do feel strongly about somethings, specially about the Dawedar Muffadul (LA) who has taken over an otherwise nice community and turned it into a mockery of its former self. If you don't like me using LA suffix, you can put me on ignore and don't have to read what I write.



Biradar
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#201

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:41 pm

dawedaar wrote:Lol.. got so agitated.. if u criticize others.. u must also have the heart to accept criticism properly rathern than telling me to ignore u!
My friend, I don't get agitated easily. I am just telling you matter of fact. It is easy to ignore what you don't like. Just a few clicks. Also, I have no problem if people criticize. I have been on this board far, far longer than you, perhaps since it inception (on another ID which I have now lost). I have dealt with many difficult people, and you are perhaps more sane than many others. So don't worry about me getting agitated! I am not.



SBM
Posts: 6193
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#202

Unread post by SBM » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:03 am

I have been on this board far, far longer than you, perhaps since it inception (on another ID which I have now lost).
Br Biradar
Was PORUS your old ID



bohrabhai
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

#203

Unread post by bohrabhai » Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:04 pm

Time has come to make presentation video regarding this barbaric practice and it's stone age rules. And put it on social media like YouTube or Facebook. This will slowly awake general public and will make aware other communities regarding our barbaric practice.



bohrabhai
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

#204

Unread post by bohrabhai » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:56 pm

http://dawoodibohraknowledgecentre.blog ... art-1.html
Bismillaahir Rahmaanir Raheem.


Iddat ni Zikr : Part 1

=================

••• Allaah Ta'aala Qur'an e Kareem ma 2:234 ma farmaawe chhe ke "je bairo na mard (husband) guzri jaay te bairo 4 months 10 days tak Iddat ma bese.




••• Rasoolullaah (saws) ye sog karnaar (mourning karnaar) bairo ne regular kanghi karwaathi (hair comb karwaathi), kaajal lagaawwathi, mehndi lagaawwathi, khushbu lagaawwathi, colourful kapda pahenwaathi, ya koi bhi tarah ni zeenat (beautification) karwaathi mana' kidhu chhe (rokela chhe).




••• Guzarnaar na bairo chaahe to ehna mard na ghar ma Iddat bese ya koi bija ghar maa bhi besi sake chhe. Jagah baraabar muqarrar (nakki) karine 4 months ane 10 raato poori kare.




••• Iddat ma besnaar bairo din ma ghar chhode nahi ane koi khaas zaroorat pade to midnight baad ghar thi nikli sake chhe ane bije din saanjh thaata return thai jaay.




••• Iddat na ghar siwaay biji jagah par raat na guzaare.




••• Guzarnaar mard na bairo Iddat beswaama taakhir (late) na kare. Agar koi business related matter ya health problems hoi to delay thai sake chhe pan itlu nahi ke ehna dil maa thi Gham zaail thai jaai (kam thai jaai).




••• Guzarnaar na bairo tijya ma diwase yaani ziyaarat na din thi Iddat ma beswaanu shuroo kare.


••• Rasoolullaah (saws) ne nazdeek ek bairo aawa ane Iddat na silsila ma sawaal kidho to Aap (saws) ye jawaab aapo ke bairo par 4 months ane 10 raat tak ehna mard na guzri jawa baad Iddat karwu farz chhe.

••• Modern zamaana ni raftaar ane progress na taqaaza no bahaano nikaali ne Iddat na aa farmaan ni ehmiyat ne ghani waqat nazar andaaz (overlook) karwaama aawe chhe.

••• Ghana loko im gumaan kare chhe ke 4 months 10 raat tak Iddat beswu aa zamaana ma mumkin nathi ane im kahe chhe ke aa to Pagan practice chhe yaani Jaahiliyat na zamaana ni rasam chhe.

••• 2:234 ni aayat ma Iddat ni je zikr chhe yema "yatarabbasna" lafz chhe jeno meaning chhe "wait" karwu. Je loko faqat Qur'an na literal meaning ne yaani Lafzi ma'aani nej qubool raakhe chhe ey im bhi daleel kare ke aa aayat ma to faqat "waiting" no hukm chhe.!!

••• Magar aa aayat je waqat naazil thai to Rasoolullaah (saws) ye aayat ne samjhaawi ane farmaayu ke waiting period ma bairo par su karwu laazim chhe. Aapye Iddat na rules clarify kidha je saghla aaje bhi follow kare chhe.

••• Rasoolullaah (saws) farmaawe chhe ke "hu tamaara darmiyan 2 bhaari cheezo ne muki jaau chhu ek Kitaabullaah (Qur'an) ane biji maari 'Itrat (Progeny) chhe.

••• Je koi aa be cheezo ne laazim rehse (follow karse) te mane Hauz e Kausar par aawine milse.

••• Har cheez na rules Qur'an ma nahi mile ehna waaste Aap (saws) ni Aal (progeny) no sahaaro lewoj padse je aapna pachhi Aimaat ane Du'aat (ra) chhe.

••• Iddat na lafz no meaning ginti na diwas (counted days) no chhe. Iddat nu farmaan koi ye banaawelu nathi magar Qur'an no Hukm chhe.

••• Je koi aa farmaan no inkaar kare to Allaah Ta'aala ane ehna Rasool (saws) no inkaar kara baraabar chhe.


••• Iddat no maqsad guzarnaar mard no sog ane gham raakhwu chhe. Iddat na dauraan ghayr mahram (ke jena thi shaadi thai sake) mard thi ghar ma awaay nahi.

••• Jamaai thi saasu ni Iddat ma jaawani rukhsat chhe. Mahram waala mardo ne Iddat ma jawaani rukhsat chhe.

••• Yena bawajood Iddat ni haalat ma bairo har haal ma milwa thi ehteyaat raakhe. Mother, father, sons, daughters, sisters, brothers etc na siwaay Iddat ma bija thi milwa ma parhez kare.

••• Ane ihwa koi haalaat bane to aapna nazdeek na Janab saab thi raza laine ane poochine koi bhi amal kare.

••• Job karnaar bairo ya businesswoman ke jena mard guzri jaay ehna Iddat ni muddat ma koi rukhsat nathi. Job ya business ya health no bahaano banaawi ne Iddat ni muddat ma agar koi bairo change laawse to te gunehgaar chhe.

••• Rasoolullaah (saws) farmaawe chhe ke "Laa taa'ata le makhlooqin fee ma'seyatil Khaaliq" yaani Allaah Ta'aala ni Makhlooq (Creations) nu ihwu farmaan na maanwu joiye ke jema Allaah ni Naa-farmaani hoi (disobedience) hoi.

••• Koi bairo im bhi daleel kare ke guzarwa pehla maara mard mane Wasiyat kari gayela ke maari Iddat ma NA BESJO!!!

••• Agar im hoi to bhi aa Wasiyat ne maanwi na joiye kimke koi bhi Shari'at ne khilaaf yaani against ma Wasiyat NA kari sake. Har haal ma bairo par Iddat laazim chhej.

••• Iddat ni haalat ma tamaam medium of communications thi door rahe je hamna maujood chhe - Social media, Television, Internet etc.



Maqbool
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

#205

Unread post by Maqbool » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:15 pm

I found this on net.

"2.234. Those among you who die, leaving behind their wives: they (the wives) shall keep themselves in waiting for four months and ten days, (during which they should refrain from marrying and from self-adornment with a view to presenting themselves for marriage). When they have reached the end of the waiting term, then there is no blame on you for what they may do by themselves within (the bounds of) decency. God is fully aware of all that you do."

••• Iddat ni haalat ma tamaam medium of communications thi door rahe je hamna maujood chhe - Social media, Television, Internet etc.

how come this rule made at the time of Rasullulauh(SAWS)!!



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#206

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:37 pm

••• Iddat ma besnaar bairo din ma ghar chhode nahi ane koi khaas zaroorat pade to midnight baad ghar thi nikli sake chhe ane bije din saanjh thaata return thai jaay.
This rule seems weird. A woman in iddat is not allowed to leave the house during day time when it is actually safer but allowed to leave after midnight when it is more dangerous? During day time other people might see but during night time only miscreants will see her!!!



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 999
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

#207

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:07 am

the ayah 2.234 is self explanotory.
it only says she should wait for 4 months and 10 days for marraige.
nothing like the stupid seclusion which is practised today.
she can live a normal life like everybody. only she should not get married.
this may be coz of pregnancy issues which could cause complication later.



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#208

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:59 am

Anyways, most of bohraism is mixture of hindu traditions, thus rules of iddat also reflects the same. the restrictions that are imposed on widows. only women must do the "sog" while men can merrily marry around any number of women as they please be wife dead or alive .. bunch of bullcrap !



bohrabhai
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

#209

Unread post by bohrabhai » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:50 am

tragic news from surat. one elder lady died today due to barbaric iddat practice . she had two days remaining in iddat and she got heart attack. Family was searching was lady doctors . But no one come and family refused to shift patient in nearby hospital.
how many woman will be killed or murdered by this barbaric practice ?
time to do a petition in change.org to stop this barbaric practice. This will awareness to world about this practice .



New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

#210

Unread post by New » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:36 pm

One of my wife's aunt passed away due to this stupid custom. She had a heart attack while in Iddat. Like FGM there can not be a law against Iddat as it is a social custom. Quite often the widowed ladies want to do it as they are programmed. Our Kothar will not let this practice go away as it loosens their social grip. The whole purpose of Iddat is for deciding paternity if it happens to be there. My grand mother who was pregnant had to follow Iddat for 8 months when my uncle was born.

If the husband is lost one waits for 10 to 12 years, depending up on over the water or the land.

The science is so advanced now that one can detect pregnancy within a few days of its occurrence and the paternity can be confirmed by the DNA analysis.

There is no cure for stupidity.