A challenge to Wahabis

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profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

A challenge to Wahabis

#1

Unread post by profastian » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:28 am

All the wahabis and bohra haters,who butt in on every thread and criticize all the practices of Dawoodi Bohras, just give one logical answer to this.

Why did some of you celebrated Eid-ul-Adha on Monday, when Haj was on Sat-Sun. If this is not idiotic, then what is...



anajmi
Posts: 13400
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:06 pm

Some wahhabis have localized Haqiqi Kaabas like the bohras do. So they celebrate Eid as per local Haqiqi Kaabas.



SBM
Posts: 6170
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#3

Unread post by SBM » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:44 pm

Why did some of you celebrated Eid-ul-Adha on Monday, when Haj was on Sat-Sun. If this is not idiotic, then what is...
Pro
And how many times DB and other Bohras (alavi as they follow DB) celebrate Eid Ul Adha and do Hajj day before the rest of Muslim Ummah does. if that is not idiotic then what is?



stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

#4

Unread post by stranger » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:13 pm

This is typical stuff again, I have raised this question earlier in saperate thread but None replied to the point :-
When it comes to defend DB faith, the Pseudo progressives keep mum but they get hell of energy suddenly when it comes to defend sunni/wahabi faith :roll:
When you yourself don't believe and trust your own tenant of faith then ghanta you will bring reform ?



anajmi
Posts: 13400
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#5

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:07 pm

Pro
And how many times DB and other Bohras (alavi as they follow DB) celebrate Eid Ul Adha and do Hajj day before the rest of Muslim Ummah does. if that is not idiotic then what is?
oma,

You have raised a very good point. And instead of answering your question, stranger has decided to attack you. Typical stuff again.



SBM
Posts: 6170
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#6

Unread post by SBM » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:37 pm

by stranger on Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:13 pm
This is typical stuff again, I have raised this question earlier in saperate thread but None replied to the point :-
When it comes to defend DB faith, the Pseudo progressives keep mum but they get hell of energy suddenly when it comes to defend sunni/wahabi faith :roll:
Stranger
When you yourself don't believe and trust your own tenant of faith then ghanta you will bring reform ?
This is typical stuff again, if you can not answer, make personal attack, I have raised many question in different threads about following:
1-Gold collection for Ma Fatema's Zarih, what happened
2-Noorani Toilet, which Shazada benefited asking all DBs to change
3-Bhendi Bazar Upliftment what is the status
4-Free Food distribution why it changed to Tiffin for Money

But No reply came from the Kothari Defenders when it comes to asking about transparency and accountability, the pseudo Regressive keep
mum but they get hell of energy suddenly to attack everyone else. :roll:
BTW I do not defend nor defame any one's believes, just opine myself. My theory is "it is between you and Allah"



profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

#7

Unread post by profastian » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:46 pm

I see that Muslim First is keeping mum...



Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

#8

Unread post by Muslim First » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:40 pm

profastian wrote: All the wahabis and bohra haters,who butt in on every thread and criticize all the practices of Dawoodi Bohras, just give one logical answer to this.

Why did some of you celebrated Eid-ul-Adha on Monday, when Haj was on Sat-Sun. If this is not idiotic, then what is...
profastian wrote: I see that Muslim First is keeping mum......
Br Prof wastaian

I do not think you have enough brain power in your Khopdi to understand that Mainstream Islam has no central authority and most of them follow Qur'an and Sunah to start month for religious purposes.
Below is OFFICIAL Day of Eid-al-Adha in Different Countries
And reason why it was on Nov. 6 or Nov. 7
Main Stream Muslims do not follow calculated calander based on moon birth at Cairo, Egypt.

Please go to sighting reports on moonsightng.com ( http://moonsighting.com/1432zhj.html )

Sunday, 6 November 2011:
Afghanistan (Follow Saudi)
Albania (Follow Saudi)
Armenia (Follow Saudi)
Austria (Follow Saudi)
Azerbaijan (Follow Saudi)
Bahrian (Follow Saudi)
Bangladesh (Some areas follow Saudi)
Belgium (Follow Saudi)
Bolivia (Follow Saudi)
Bosnia and Hercegovina (Follow Saudi)
Bulgaria (Follow Saudi)
Canada - Fiqh Council of North America/Islamic Society of North America OR follow news from other countries
Chechnia (Follow Saudi)
Cosovo (Follow Saudi)
Denmark (Follow Saudi)
Egypt - Moon Born before sunset & moon sets at least 5 minutes after sunset
Finland (Follow Saudi)
France (Follow Saudi)
Georgia (Follow Saudi)
Hungary (Follow Saudi)
Iceland (Follow Saudi)
Iraq (Follow Saudi)
Ireland (Follow Saudi)
Italy (Follow Saudi)
Jordan (Follow Saudi)
Kazakhstan (Follow Saudi)
Kuwait (Follow Saudi)
Kyrgizstan (Follow Saudi)
Lebanon (Follow Saudi)
Luxembourg (Follow Saudi)
Malaysia - Age > 8 hours, altitude > 2°, elongation > 3°
Mauritania (Follow Saudi)
Montenegro (Follow Saudi)
Mauritius (Local Sighting)
Netherlands (Follow Saudi)
Norway (Follow Saudi)
Palestine (Follow Saudi)
Panama (Local Sighting)
Philippines (Follow Saudi)
Qatar (Follow Saudi)
Romania (Follow Saudi)
Russia (Follow Saudi)
Saudi Arabia (Local Sighting - Official Announcement)
Spain (Follow Saudi)
Sudan (Follow Saudi)
Sweden (Follow Saudi)
Switzerland (Follow Saudi)
Syria (Follow Saudi)
Tajikistan (Follow Saudi)
Taiwan (Follow Saudi)
Tatarstan (Follow Saudi)
Tunisia - Criteria of age, or altitude, or sunset-moonset lag
Turkey - Altitude > 5°, elongation > 8°
Turkmenistan (Follow Saudi)
U.A.E. (Follow Saudi)
UK (Sighting from South Africa)
UK (Follow Saudi) [Coordination Committee of Major Islamic Centres and Mosques of London]
USA - Fiqh Council of North America/Islamic Society of North America. (Follow Saudi)
Uzbekistan (Follow Saudi)
Yemen (Follow Saudi)

Monday, 7 November



Australia (Local Sighting)
Bangladesh (One group - Local Sighting)
Brunei (Local Sighting)
Fiji Islands (Local Sighting)
India (Local Sighting)
Iran (Local Sighting)
Morocco (Local Sighting)
Pakistan (Local Sighting)
Sri Lanka (Local Sighting)



stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

#9

Unread post by stranger » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:04 am

omabharti wrote: BTW I do not defend nor defame any one's believes, just opine myself. My theory is "it is between you and Allah"
Good, so please re-read ur above statement before making any comment on DB's and Sydena now on.



profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

#10

Unread post by profastian » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:40 am

But Eid-ul-Adha has nothing to do with the date of the month, does it(even from the historical context). It is just the day when people perform Haj. In some countries they celebrated Yaum-e-Arafat(day of Haj) on Sunday and kept fast. How can this be as the Hujjaj had already been to Arafat on Sat. How do you justify this? Seems idiotic to me...



Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

#11

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:06 am

profastian wrote:But Eid-ul-Adha has nothing to do with the date of the month, does it(even from the historical context). It is just the day when people perform Haj. In some countries they celebrated Yaum-e-Arafat(day of Haj) on Sunday and kept fast. How can this be as the Hujjaj had already been to Arafat on Sat. How do you justify this? Seems idiotic to me...
Brother, AS
You are proving that you have Bhusa in your Khopdi.

for Non Hajis Eid-ul-Adha is day of sacrifice. Before days of instant communication Muslims of rest of world did not know when day of Arafa happened in Mecca so they celebrated Eid-ul-Adha as per local sighting.
Now question for you
Why bohras perform hajj out of sync with rest of Hajis most of the times?
Did you notice in Egypt (Base of Fatemi Calendar) Criteria was”Moon Born before sunset & moon sets at least 5 minutes after sunset” but not old enough to be seen.

Here are predicted dates for
Ramadan and Eidian 1433 AH (2012) as per moonsighting.com

RAMADAN & SHAWWAL 1433 (2011)

Ramadan 1433 AH: The Astronomical New Moon is on July 19, 2012 (Thursday) at 4:24 Universal Time (7:24 a.m. Makkah time). On Thursday, July 19, it can not be seen anywhere in the world by naked eye, except in small areas of Polynesian Islands. On Friday, July 20, 2012, it can be easily seen in Australia, South-East Asia, Africa and Americas.

On July 19, 2012 (Thursday), Sunset at Makkah at 7:01 p.m., Moonset is at 7:11 p.m. Moon is born before sunset at Makkah and moonset is after sunset at Makkah. Therefore, according to Ummula-Qura Calendar, 1st day of Ramadan is Friday, July 20, 2012 insha'Allah.

According to Fiqh Council of North America criteria (moon born before sunset at Makkah, and moonset after sunset at Makkah) 1st day of Ramadan is Friday, July 20, 2012 insha'Allah.

Eid ul-Fitr 1433 AH: The Astronomical New Moon is on August 17, 2012 (Friday) at 15:54 Universal Time (6:54 p.m. Makkah time). On Friday, August 17, it can not be seen anywhere in the world by naked eye. On Saturday, August 18, 2012, it can be easily seen in Southern Africa and South America. On August 19, it can be seen in almost the whole world.

On August 17, 2012 (Friday), Sunset at Makkah is at 6:49 p.m., Moonset is at 6:30 p.m. Moon is born after sunset at Makkah and Moon is setting before sunset at Makkah. Therefore, according to Ummula-Qura Calendar, Eid-ul-Fitr will NOT be next day, but it will be on Sunday, August 19, 2012 insha'Allah.

According to Fiqh Council of North America criteria (moon born before sunset at Makkah, and moonset after sunset at Makkah) 1st day of Shawwal is Sunday, August 19, 2012 insha'Allah.

EID-UL-ADHA 1433 AH: The Astronomical New Moon is on August 29, 2011 (Monday) at 3:04 . The Astronomical New Moon is on October 15, 2012 (Monday) at 12:02 Universal Time (3:02 p.m. Makkah time). On Monday, October 15, it can not be seen anywhere in the world by naked eye. On Tuesday, October 16, 2012, it can be easily seen in Australia, Africa and Americas; and with difficulty in South-East Asia.
With this calculations Day of Arafah is expected to be on Thursday, October 25, 2012. This is also the date in Ummul-Qura calendar for Day of Arafah.

According to Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA), Eid-al-Adha would be on the day after the Day of Arafah; i.e., Friday, October 26, 2012



Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

#12

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:30 pm

Now brother Profestain

Would you like challenge?

How about Qur;an Challenge?

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=6533

See if you can take it.



profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

#13

Unread post by profastian » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:20 am

I am not asking who celebrated Eid on what day? The challenge is why?



Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

#14

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:05 am

Pro westin
I am not asking who celebrated Eid on what day? The challenge is why?
You still did not get it? It shows you need to eat some Badam to increase your brain power.

Before time of instant communication Hajj and Eid happened in Mecca as per local moon sighting as ordered in qur'an and sunna.

Muslim around the world celebrated Eid as per local sighting, and it may or may not be same day.

Remember there are always two different days in world at any given moment.

Please do not hasitate to ask any stupid questions on Islam. We can ome up with answer.

Wasalaam



profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

#15

Unread post by profastian » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:34 am

Muslim First wrote:
Pro westin
I am not asking who celebrated Eid on what day? The challenge is why?
You still did not get it? It shows you need to eat some Badam to increase your brain power.

Before time of instant communication Hajj and Eid happened in Mecca as per local moon sighting as ordered in qur'an and sunna.

Muslim around the world celebrated Eid as per local sighting, and it may or may not be same day.

Remember there are always two different days in world at any given moment.

Please do not hasitate to ask any stupid questions on Islam. We can ome up with answer.

Wasalaam
Different times of the same day is a different thing. But a 24 hour difference as you observe is definitely a
different
day. Maybe you need to eat some badams.



Muslim First
Posts: 6892
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

#16

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:48 am

profastian wrote: Different times of the same day is a different thing. But a 24 hour difference as you observe is definitely a
different
day. Maybe you need to eat some badams.
Have you heard of International Date Line [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Date_Line ]?

Look at this image [ http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... Q&dur=3541 ]

I bet Island of Tonga and Samoa have same time but different date.

So Taher in Tonga and Burhan in Samoa will be celebrating Eid on different day.