Prayer in a Sunni/Wahabi Mosque

[khan19922001]

Why can't the bohri's pray in a Sunni/Wahabi mosque. Why do they pretend to pray with the other muslims, in the two holy harams.

Why don't the Bohris follow the lunar calender in fixing the months. How can they have a pre-dtermined calender. The moon is specifically referred to in the Quran.

Regards

[Muslim]

How can they have a pre-dtermined calender. The moon is specifically referred to in the Quran.

Where?

[Alislam]

salaams khan,

Both the topics are discussed extensively earlier..Just search the previous posts.

[Average Bohra]

Khan,

One should let the Bohras pray where they want, just as the Hindus pick their temples and the Christians their Churches.

What is significant and troublesome is why do places with the holy harams not allow Muslims of non-Whabi sects to have their own Mosques and broadcast their own Azaans. Any thoughts ?

[tahir]

Not that I endorse sunni/wahabi ways but during hajj it was quiet an embarassment when we were asked just to pretend to pray along with the others. When the "general" namaz was done, we had to again offer "real" namaz secretly according to the bohri ways. It was so ridiculous!! It was 1995 and the incharge of the batch was a despot called "dawood bhaisaab". Every now and then, hapless bohris were threatened of expulsion from the caretaking of Rubaat if they dared to disobey them. The thought of being on their own in an alien land amidst an ocean of humanity (and hostility of wahabis) was scary enough to make them meekly submit to the rudely dictatorial administration.

Another instance of these hideous shysters cowardly performing underground activities was that of "maatam", which is not considered appropriate in Islam (atleast by wahabis). So everyone was herded inside the Rubaat for the majlises and the doors were shut. We felt like jews in the Nazi Germany. I also noticed that the bohris from North America were treated much better than the ones from South Asia. The latter wre treated no better than sheep. Probably because in case someone with an american passport goes and complains in the US embassy, the Rubaat will find a thick baton up its ass. While in the case of Indian bohris, their ambassador is as helpless as themselves. Even if he wasnt, they dont dare take such a step. So they just suffered silently. If they complained, the "khidmatguzaars" shouted at them saying that they were complaining against "maula". Once in the camp near Mt. Arafaat, an old man was overheard murmuring " is this a concentration camp?"..immediately he was surrounded by a hostile pack of hyenas (khidmatguzaars) alleging "tamey aqua maula ney hitler ko cho !!". He was humiliated in every possible way and was let off only after millions of apologies.

The bohri rubaat charges exorbitant money for the inferior services they give on hajj, not to talk of the oppression. They will loose a huge chunk of revenue if they let the bohris mix with the "general" muslims during the 40 days event.

[anajmi]

What is significant and troublesome is why do places with the holy harams not allow Muslims of non-Whabi sects to have their own Mosques and broadcast their own Azaans. Any thoughts ?

Why shouldn't they have their own harams and Kaaba too? After all Kaaba was built by humans wasn't it?

[anajmi]

Actually the bohras consider the Maula to be a kaaba all by himself, why don't they just perform the tawaf of Saifee Mahal when he is in there? That will save them the trouble of hiding like the Jews in Nazi Germany.

[Average Bohra]

The fact is that there are several sects within Islam. It is futile to wonder why one can't pray with the other, who they pray with or don't, it won't change the facts. Soome of you worship UBL and the Fatwa writers, just as Bohras worship the Dai.

The bigger question is, why do non-Islamic countries offer religious freedoms to all sects of Islam, while Islamic countries don't ?

[anajmi]

Another misfire. No one worships UBL or any Fatwa writers. American morons have been trained, rather brainwashed, to keep repeating a lie over and over again till at least some other morons start believing them. We have seen plenty of examples of that in the last couple of years. You are a perfect example of a liar and a moron at the same time.

You are talking as if you will be the first one to go and pray in a bohra mosque as soon as it is built in the haram. Man, what a hypocrite. A truly religious person(a muslim of course) doesn't care about a bohra mosque in the haram. Either the kothar do, and we all know why, or hypocrites like you do, again we all know why.

[Average Bohra]

ScumBag,

You can let your invectives fly and avoid every topic you respond to, but that does not change the facts.

Wahabi's die at the direction of UBL and Fatwas, Bohra's don't. Islamic countries do not allow all Muslims to pray in the manner they choose.

These are the facts, so get your head out of the sand, and respond in an intelligible manner as you are merely reinforcing your stereotype.

[anajmi]

Average Moron,

What does an Average Moron know about facts? Let me give you some facts. Do you know that Bohras do not allow a sunni muslim to pray in their mosques? Go do some research before you decide to argue with me.

A bohra can go and pray in any Sunni mosque he wishes and no one will stop him. In fact a bohra can pretend to be praying with everyone else and still he won't be stopped. Imagine how screwed he is in the hereafter.

Go to a mosque and pray in any manner you choose, no one will stop you as long as you are worshipping Allah and not Ali or the Dai.

Try going to a church and praying namaz and then you will see how your religious freedom is shoved up your American ass.

And you talk about religious freedom in non-islamic countried, what freedoms are you talking about you fool? Am I allowed to have more than one wife? Am I allowed to cut the hands of the one that stole from me? Am I allowed to stone a rapist to death?

Next you feel like arguing with me, go do some research.

[Average Bohra]

DoucheBag,

Read, Learn, Understand, THINK, then Post a Reply.

The point is not whether each mosque, church or temple should let everyone walk in and do their thing. That is entirely at their discretion. The issue at hand is that Islamic countries do not allow Muslims to chose and build their place of worship in ways that Wahabis don't agree with.

As far as your polygamous and pedophilic desires ? They are against the law except in Islamic countries. The Quran requires you to obey the laws of the country you dwell in so you are stuck.

Again, entirely a different topic. Dyslexia ?

[khan19922001]

Dear Muslim

See 2:189

Regards

[Alislam]

Dear Khan,

Seeing the moon is a condition, but seeing it with a naked eye is not..

Now the science is advanced and the movements of the moon are known down to a second.

Don't you feel, seeing with a naked eye is resposible for different eids in the same town or towns which are nearby.

[anajmi]

Average Moron,

The issue at hand is that Islamic countries do not allow Muslims to chose and build their place of worship in ways that Wahabis don't agree with.

That is against the law in those countries. So I guess you are stuck.

[anajmi]

The Quran requires you to obey the laws of the country you dwell in so you are stuck.

Religious freedom, anyone?

[Muslim]

Khan,
Verse 2/186 says: "They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to mark fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage."
This is to dispel any other myths about the new moons - their purpose is purely for time keeping.
The Bohra calendar is actually a lunar calendar - it is based on the revolutions of the moon, with days added on leap years to adjust it accordingly. In this respect it is more accurate than eye-sighting and therefore more in accordance with the spirit of the Quran.

Tahir,
Slightly puzzled - you don't like Bohras having to perform their practices in secret, but A) you blame Bohras for that, not the regime that is the cause of Bohras having to hide their practices in the first place and B) you do not give an suggestions on what should be done. You say "We felt like jews in the Nazi Germany" - it happens you were a Bohra in Saudi Arabia. The first problem was solved when they got rid off Nazi Germany. And Bohras will I'm sure be happy to perform their practices in the open when the House of Saud falls.

Av Bohra,
Strictly speaking, Shia mosques do exist in Saudi Arabia (in the Eastern Province for example they make up a large percentage) but probably not in the religous centers of Hijaz. They did exist earlier, there were Shia mosques in Madina but most were destroyed in the 1920s.

Anajmi,

Sunnis can pray in Bohra mosques, although they are not encouraged to. In any case, Bohra customs and practises are so distinct and mosques so few, it would be very strange for a Sunni to WANT to pray in a Bohra mosque. So why are you kicking up such a fuss?

And actually there are lots of people out there who do worship UBL and fatwa writers. That is why 9/11 happened when 19 UBL-worshippers thought they were carrying out God's work by murdering innocent people. That is why to this day the slaughter of Muslims is being carried out by such people who CALL THEMSELVES Muslims in Pakistan, Iraq, etc. In fact they were all carrying out the work of UBL. UBL-worshippers and Syedna-worshippers are both promoted by blind-faith, the only difference is the scale and extent of their aggression.

Its very odd, you have a big mouth when it comes to America and the West, but you hardly talk about the killing of MUSLIMS by fellow so-called "Muslims" in Iraq, Pakistan, etc.

When you have condemned that, I would like you to open your eyes and stop living in denial like the vast majority of Muslims. Muslims have been killing each other for power and wealth long before the United States ever came into existence, in fact not so long after the death of the Prophet. Remember the killings of Umar, Uthman, Ali, etc?

And when you have pondered that, I would like you to re-read your posts and take a deep look at the kind of filthy language you promote. I mean, how old are you? Do you have a wife and kids? If you do, I sincerely hope for their sake you are not the same abusive person in your personal life.

And then finally, it would be nice if you could kindly get off this message board, your a waste of space on my screen.

Thank you.

[Average Bohra]

Anajmi,

Your imbecilic posts don’t deserve a response as you don’t make any sense let alone address the issue you are responding to. Your buddy Amicus was right....

[tahir]

Muslim,
Sorry I couldnt put my point well. Actually it was all about the rubaat administration. They exploited the flock simply because they have appropriated the franchise for bohri hajj. The feeling of jews was with respect to the rubaat and not the wahabis.

[Muslim First]

Br. Muslim
AS
Question about moon sighting was discussed previously in detail.
In USA Muslim majority is trying to implement criteria based on actual sighting confirmed by astronomical calculations.For criteria used in various countries and sects See http://www.moonsighting.com/methods.html

Also read FAQ on moon sighting at http://www.moonsighting.com/faq_ms.html .

Hope and pray that Muslim ummah will unite at least on one issue. (I don’t think it will happen)

Wasallam
.

[Muslim First]

The Bohra calendar is actually a lunar calendar - it is based on the revolutions of the moon, with days added on leap years to adjust it accordingly. In this respect it is more accurate than eye-sighting and therefore more in accordance with the spirit of the Quran.

It could be accurate for one location. If selected location is say Cairo then it is accuate there. But it is not accurate for Mumbai or New York.Islamic lunar calander is local. There is no concept such as International date line.

Please open new thread if need to discuss more.
.

[Muslim First]

Brothers
AS

As far as prayers and Adhan at Mecca and Madina is concerned it is not going to change no matter who rules the country. Prayers and Adhan are done at these two Masjids since the time of Prophet SAW. Somebody is alwas a witness to how prayer ware done yesterday and wording used in Adhan. Heads will roll if you deviate from it. Remember Fatimi Khalifa's assumed authority over Holy Mosques for a perod of time and no changes were done.

Hz. Ali RA was Kalifa for some six years and he did not change Adhan or way of praying.

Wasalaam.

[Muslim]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Brothers
AS

As far as prayers and Adhan at Mecca and Madina is concerned it is not going to change no matter who rules the country. Prayers and Adhan are done at these two Masjids since the time of Prophet SAW. Somebody is alwas a witness to how prayer ware done yesterday and wording used in Adhan. Heads will roll if you deviate from it. Remember Fatimi Khalifa's assumed authority over Holy Mosques for a perod of time and no changes were done.

Hz. Ali RA was Kalifa for some six years and he did not change Adhan or way of praying.

Wasalaam.

That is the biggest pile of nonsense I have ever read. None of your statements can ever be verified.

Not even all Sunnis pray the same way. Just one example: folding the hands, Mailikis straighten their hands in prayer, while the rest fold. You must be living in some kind of fairyland to pretend there have never been differences.

Your statement "Heads will roll if you deviate from it" is symptomatic of the intolerant extremism that is being promoted.

[Muslim First]

.
Br. muslim
As

I am well aware of Maliki's pray with hands on side. Maliki School is not native to Macca and Madina.

I should not have used heads will roll but rather said it would have created lot of disent.

If Maliki's want to enforce hand rule in Meacca and Madina then it will also creat dissent.

Please tell me when Fatimi's were in charge of Mecca and Madina then why did they not change Adhan and mode of prayer to their way?

Wasalaam
.

[Muslim]

Imam Malik was born in Madina, taught in Madina and died in Madina. Imam Hanbal whos teachings are followed in Saudi was born in Baghdad and died in Baghdad.