Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.



Unread post by Guest » Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:30 am

The year is 2001.As human beings,we have progressed dramatically during the past century.Equal rights for all,right? Wrong. Not at least for bohris because of Burhanuddin's regime ("Thug Kotharis")- they imposing ridiculous "fatwas" for past more than fifty years and robbing the community.Their belief in equality for all not exist,barbaric and mutilating practices prevent some women from enjoying the simple unspoken natural gift of sexual pleasure.<p>Female Circumcision Operations are a prime example of a cult type religion practice that has potentially great medical implications. The emotional and physical implications of this demeaning practice need to be stopped immediately. Women who have undergone such an operation have emotional problems such as anger and rage. In some cases, these women have resorted to feelings of embarrassment and acceptance. Medical complications can include sexual dysfunction caused by mental and physical trauma,scarring, and lacerations in the genital area. The continued use of this medical procedure is indeed a tragedy. It seems that strong measures could be imposed on to stop the mutilation.After all, isn't mutilation a crime?



Unread post by Guest » Wed Apr 18, 2001 6:45 pm

attn:Ishaq<p>That's what you get and will continue to get for trying to EMULATE the 7th century ways of the sunnis.<p><br>



Unread post by Guest » Sat Apr 21, 2001 7:59 am

Is it a requirement that all Bohri women are circumcised? Is it still happening? What happens to new converts, are they required to be circumcised whatever there age?



Unread post by Guest » Wed Dec 12, 2001 12:28 am

<br> | The East African | <br> <br> <br>Front Page <br>News <br>Business <br>Commentary <br>Letters <br>Sports <br>Cutting Edge <br>Editorial cartoon <br>Obituaries <br> <br>News <br>Wednesday, December 12, 2001 <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>FGM on children, forced marriages outlawed<br>By NJERI RUGENE <br>Female Genital Mutilation on children and forced marriages have now been criminalised by law. <p>A new law enacted recently by Parliament makes it a crime for anybody, including a parent, to practice FGM on children of up to 16. It also seeks to penalise anybody who denies a child basic primary school education. <p>The laws, contained in the Children's Bill, say that anyone who commits the offence, including forcing children to early marriages, will be liable for a minimum one year jail sentence or a Sh50,000 fine or both. <p>The amendments to the Bill were proposed by the Parliamentary Committee on Health, Housing, Labour and Social Welfare. <p>Yesterday, the Committee demanded that the Government implements the law as a priority, to protect the girl-child from harmful and unfair practices. <p>Led by Committee chairman Newton Kulundu, the MPs asked the government to safeguard the rights of children and enforce the laws to the effect. <p>Addressing a news conference at Parliament Buildings the MPs condemned female genital mutilation as retrogressive and appealed to leaders to be responsible and desist from making statements in support of the practice. <p>The MPs who included Norman Nyagah (Kamukunji, DP) Joshua Toro (Kandara, DP), Njehu Gatabaki (Githunguri, SDP), and Mr Zebedeo Obore (Bonchari, Kanu) informed Kenyans that through the provisions of the Act, there was now a mechanism through which anybody could seek redress, even against the government, whenever they found the rights of children being infringed upon. <p>Dr Kulundu asked communities still practising FGM to stop the practice, saying research had shown that there was now a high prevalent of HIV/Aids among them, because it exposed the girls and women to the pandemic. <p>"These are matters of life and death and that is why we have give out of our way to criminalise the practice. It is harmful and discriminative to our girls and women and it must be rejected,’’ the Lurambi MP said. <p>The Committee had collected views from a cross-section of Kenyans before criminalising the practice in the Childrens Bill, and asked leaders who are supporting it why they did not appear before the committee to give their views. <p>"We condemned the practice as repugnant and primitive and we can only hope the government will implement this law so that e can guard the dignity and rights of our girls. It is a pity that some leaders can go public in support of such a harmful practice,’’ Mr Nyagah said. <p>The Kamukunji MP asked the government to be serious in implementation of this law, observing that although the practice was outlawed in Ghana 12 years ago, it was still still prevalent. <p>On the contentious issue of school fees, the MPs asked the government to transfer all levies that have been a responsibility of parents, to itself. <p>The committee, asked leaders not to create confusion on the school fees issues in public primary schools. <p>In proposing the amendments to the Bill, the committee had aimed at having the government bear the burden of paying all levies in schools. <p>They said: "What has been over-burdening parents are the various levies charged and which have negatively impacted on our children’s access to education. These are the levies the committee wants abolished and the subsequent costs taken up by the government.’’ <p> <br> <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Copyright ©2001, Nation Media Group Ltd. All rights reserved. <br>Front Page | News | Business | Comment | Letters | Sports | Cutting Edge | Feedback <br>



Unread post by Guest » Thu Dec 13, 2001 2:35 pm

Thank you Mumineen; May be the Bohris in Kenya will get brave enough to report this happening to our community to their Govt act firmly on the law passed!



Unread post by Guest » Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:30 pm

<br>With reference to Genital mutilation I like to reproduce a letter sent to Boston Globe by Takara Stanely of Brookline, MA. On 1/25/01<p>DON’T LINK ISLAM WITH MUTILATIONS<p>The Article “Question left in genital mutilation case: Why?”<br>(Page B1, January 17,2001), subtly links the practice of female genital mutilation to Islam by saying that Islam is “the common thread” in places where it is done. In fact, unlike male circumcision, female gentile mutilation is not teaching of Islam. It dates to time of the pharaohs and predates Islam. It has persisted among certain groups regardless of whether they are Christian, Muslim, or animist.<p>TAKARA STANLEY, Brookline, MA <p><br>



Unread post by Guest » Fri Dec 21, 2001 2:25 pm

<br> | The East African | <br> <br> <br>Front Page <br>News <br>Business <br>Commentary <br>Letters <br>Sports <br>Cutting Edge <br>Editorial cartoon <br>Obituaries <br>Email Nation <br>Advertise on the Web <br> <br>Letter <br>Friday, December 21, 2001 <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>There is no justification for FGM any more<p>If there is an issue that has replayed over and over in our daily talks then it should be Aids. If there is one area that women's rights activists cannot be denied credit, it is the relentless crusade against the barbaric and out-dated female genital mutilation. <p>This is one cultural practice that has remained mysterious. In Kenya, the practice has been wide spread among a number of communities in the Western parts as well as the Mt Kenya region. Its prevalence has also been felt heavily in the southern parts of the country including Kajiado and Narok districts. <p>It is utterly shocking for Kitutu Chache MP Jimmy Angwenyi to argue that female circumcision was viewed as a rite, mandatory for girls. Like many other rites of passage, it was unheard of for anyone in his Abagusii community to skip it. The practice, controlled promiscuity among teenage girls. <p>After the "cut", certain values were instilled in the girls which made them grow up more responsible, obedient, caring and less rebellious to their parents and other people above their age. They were more conscious of their duties and obligations than is the case today. <p>To some extent, the justification for the practice appears rational and plausible. However, this still does not indicate the practice. <p>FGM has very many dangers and adverse consequences. The tools of trade normally used in the operation are not only crude, but pose a great health hazard to the initiates. The environment within which the operation is carried out is horrifying. In this era of the raging Aids scourge, the practice is a sure recipe for disaster. <p>The style, manner and character of the operation amounts to inhuman treatment. This constitutes an infringement of human rights recognised and protected by the Constitution of Kenya (Section 74). <p>The implication here is that whenever the practice is condoned, the girls' rights are being violated. In a society, which claims to have attained some modicum of civilisation, this must not be allowed to happen. <p>The other disadvantage of FGM is that it acts as a fertile ground on which early and even forced marriages thrive. The practice give the newly- initiated girls, their parents ,and the community in general a false feeling of maturity. <p>Contrary to this, these girls are, in actual fact, not physically, psychologically or even emotionally ready to survive the rigours of marriage. Worse still, early marriages contribute to the high dropout rates from schools. This no doubts impacts negatively on the social welfare of the girls. In the present day of information revolution, lack of formal education could just be the greatest impediment to any kind of advancement in society. It is with this in mind that one sees the practice as a savage custom and a mockery to civilisation. <p>Efforts by gender lobbyists to eradicate the practice must be supported by all. Moreover, it is very laudable to learn that education has been appropriately identified as an alternative rite for the girls in the affected communities. The virtues taught to the newly-initiated girls could still be imparted through formal education. <p>FGM is one of those archaic practices that must be fought and totally eradicated. A prosperous society is one, which embraces and nurtures good values and practices. Female circumcision is certainly not one of these. <p>DAVID ARTHUR OCHOMO, <br>Nakuru. <br> <br> <br> <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Copyright ©2001, Nation Media Group Ltd. All rights reserved. <br>Front Page | News | Business | Comment | Letters | Sports | Cutting Edge | Feedback <br>



Unread post by Guest » Mon Dec 24, 2001 6:25 pm

Where is male genital mutilation (circumcision) ordered in the Koran?



Unread post by Guest » Mon Dec 24, 2001 6:58 pm

Neither male nor female genital mutilation is mentioned in the Quraan. It is the sunna of the Prophet, or so they say.<p>I suggest we let girls and boys grow up to adulthood and then let them decide if they want to follow this practise.<p>They would then be in position to decide if it is barbaric or Islamic or medically sound.<p>But to inflict this ciustom on children when they have not reached any understanding is barbarism. It is much worse than indoctrination into faith, which is also barbarism. At least that can be reversed, albeit with difficulty.<p>



Unread post by Guest » Mon Dec 24, 2001 8:59 pm

Dear Bro Porus,<p>Please let me know if it is a new religion that you are trying to preach over here. Cause we can then discuss the same with you in a different plane altogether.



Unread post by Guest » Mon Dec 24, 2001 9:27 pm

I tell it the way it appears to me. There are enough religions in the world without me adding another one. And what a sorry state the world is in. Look at this message board!<p>Truth got lost when they packaged it in religion. Mullaism is new barbarism.<p>Truth does not need to be defended by reference to any scripture or mulla. It is available to everyone at every moment. We just have to open our eyes to recognize it.



Unread post by Guest » Mon Dec 24, 2001 10:24 pm

Dear Bro Porus,<p>Do you believe in GOD? And if yes do you believe in Allah (the name by which Muslims call him) or do you believe in just GOD?



Unread post by Guest » Mon Dec 24, 2001 11:32 pm

Br Anajmi, Porus, Muslim First and Mumineen<p>Dosent Sunnat mean if u do it its ok, but if u dont then its not a sin.<p>does that hold any weight in this particular argument about Genital mutilations or also Circumcison<p>please explain



Unread post by Guest » Tue Dec 25, 2001 3:47 am

Dear Bro wondering,<p>Yes sunnat doesn't mean that it is ok to do it. Sunnat is something that the prophet practised but did not force the muslims in general to practise. If you do whatever is Sunnat it makes a muslim, a better muslim. I do not advocate FGM cause there is no clear cut evidence that the prophet made it Sunnat - he allowed it on one occasion but did not explicitly ask anyone to do it. Male circumcision is a different case altogether. Even the jews and the christians need to do it as a part of their religion. There are other threads discussing this topic in detail. Read and decide.<p>I would try to follow as much of the prophets Sunnah as possible and then ask Allah for forgiveness. Remember, that is if you believe in heaven, not everybody in heaven will be in the same position, it will depend upon your deeds and their worthiness.<br>The better the deeds the better the position. So what are the good deeds, there isn't a good deed that wasn't performed by the prophet and not all of them have been made fard, infact most of them are Sunnah. <p>We are trying to get away from the Sunnah just because it is inconvenient for whatever weird reasonings we may have. The fact is that we no longer have faith in heaven and its rewards. May Allah guide us all.<br>



Unread post by Guest » Tue Dec 25, 2001 11:29 am

Thnx Br Anajmi<p>Excellent explanation, But dont you think Br Porus has a Valid point, when he says let the children grow up, and then decide for themselves.<p>Or does Islam say it is the parents responsibility????



Unread post by Guest » Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:52 pm

Dear Bro Wondering,<p>Why did Allah have to send down so many messengers to guide us? Why couldn't he just let us decide? Parents are the first guides of a child. A good parent will teach good things to the child. A child will grow up and eventually do what he/she wishes doesn't matter what the parents thought them but that does not free up the parent from the responsibility of guiding the child.<p>Come on brother wondering, you are not that naive to not understand something as basic as this.<p>Doesn't matter what Islam says (it always says what is right) but don't you think that it is right logically?



Unread post by Guest » Wed Dec 26, 2001 12:00 am

Thnx Br Anajmi,<p>You do make a valid point, and i have to agree with you, that parents do need to guide their children.<p>And Br Anajmi I didnt mean to offrnd you in any way, it was an honest question.<p>Thnx Again



Unread post by Guest » Wed Dec 26, 2001 5:39 am

Christians do not practice make genital mutilation as a religious practice. It was not even performed in the West til the late 1890's when some quack doctors adovcated it as a cure for masterbation (which of course it failed to prevent). It is little used in Europe and its falling in use in the USA as well (some insurance coimpanies no longer pay for it and the is a growing number of males sueing the doctors who did this for child abuse so its days are numbered in the UsA). The New Testament explicitedly states that Gentiles (non-Jews) do not have to be physically mutilated to be Christian so it was not practticed.



Unread post by Guest » Wed Dec 26, 2001 5:43 am

<br> | The East African | <br> <br> <br>Front Page <br>News <br>Business <br>Commentary <br>Letters <br>Sports <br>Cutting Edge <br>Editorial cartoon <br>Obituaries <br>Email Nation <br>Advertise on the Web <br> <br>Letter <br>Wednesday, December 26, 2001 <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Female Genital Mutilation is an abuse of human rights <br>The revelation in the Press that medical personnel in Kisii District Hospital were performing female genital mutilation is indeed nauseating, repugnant and illegal. <br> No reputable medical practitioner would agree that mutilation is good for the physical or mental health of females while a growing number offer research and case histories indicating its grave permanent damage to health, underlining the risks of death. <p> Removing the female organ of sexual pleasure leads to sexual dysfunction, which has a deleterious effect on mental health of the person. No action will entrench FGM more than legitimising it through the medical profession. <p>If doctors and hospitals start to perform it, rather than condemn it, we will have no hope of eradicating the practice. <p> We at the Family Planning Association of Kenya (FPAK) condemn all forms of FGM regardless of who performs it. Medicalisation of FGM is also retrogressive which is consistently opposed by the World Health Organisation (WHO). <p> Medical personnel who perform FGM should be prosecuted and their medical licences withdrawn. <p> Studies have shown that an estimated 135 million girls and women have undergone genital mutilation, and two million girls a year are at risk – approximately 6,000 a day. <p> This goes to show the magnitude of FGM with the practice being extensively practised in Africa. The secrecy surrounding FGM, and the protection of those who carry it out, make collecting data about complications resulting from mutilation difficult. <p> Most of the information is collected retrospectively, often a long time after the event. <p> FGM results in chronic infections, intermittent bleeding, abacuses and small benign tumours of the nerve, which can result from clitoridectomy and excision, cause discomfort or extreme pain. The use of the same instrument on several girls without sterilisation can cause the spread of HIV. <p> Genital mutilation makes first sexual intercourse an ordeal for women. Psychological effects associated with FGM are more difficult to investigate with only a small number of psychological illnesses being reported. <p> Despite the lack of scientific evidence, personal accounts of mutilation reveal feelings of anxiety, terror humiliation and betrayal, all of which would be likely to have long-term negative effects. It is from the foregoing that it is an absolute necessity to permanently eradicate FGM. <p> Although it is a gross violation of human rights, FGM is still rampant in Kenya with at least 38 per cent of Kenyan girls aged 15-19 years having been circumcised ("Kenya Demographic Health Survey, 1998"). <p> It is practised for customary and traditional reasons – as part of the initiation to adulthood and also to enhance gender identity, control a woman's sexuality and reproductive functions. <p> FGM is an extreme example of the general subjugation of women, sufficiently extreme and horrifying to make women and men question the basis of what is being done to women, what women have accepted, and why. This is reflected in the Vienna Declaration which emerged from the UN World Human Rights Conference in 1993 which stressed in part that: ‘The human rights of women and the girl child are inalienable, integral and indivisible part of universal human rights.’ <p> GODWIN MZENGE, <p> Executive Director, FPAK, <br> Family Planning Association of Kenya<br> Nairobi. <p><br> <br> <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Copyright ©2001, Nation Media Group Ltd. All rights reserved. <br>Front Page | News | Business | Comment | Letters | Sports | Cutting Edge | Feedback <br>



Unread post by Guest » Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:36 pm

Dear Bro Wondering,<p>I will not be offended by anything you have to say. Please shoot whatever questions you have and I will be glad to answer, if I know the answer.



Unread post by Guest » Wed Dec 26, 2001 9:20 pm

This is interesting discussion...not the genitial mutilation part..but that of if parents guide their children or if they even need guiding. Please start another thread referecing it to continue the discussion.



Unread post by Guest » Thu Jun 20, 2002 8:36 pm

What do you all think of FGM? What are the reasons behind making people practice it? I know it's in some hadeeths, but why do upnawalas insist upon female circumcision?



Unread post by Guest » Fri Jun 21, 2002 12:42 am

It makes Anajmi feel like a real man. <p>Now he doesn't have to take accountability of not knowing how to sexually satisfy a woman; or financially for that matter.



Unread post by Guest » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:19 am

Its an abominable practice and the sooner the world is rid of it the better. What frequently annoys me though is why doesn't anyone care about stopping male circumcision? It has about as much medical justification as female circumcision.<p>-N<br>



Unread post by Guest » Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:30 pm

<br>Believer wrote: "It makes Anajmi feel like a real man. "<p>Without knowing br. Anajmi's views on FMG one should not assume that he supports it.<p>



Unread post by Guest » Sat Jun 22, 2002 2:32 am

Does Muslim First = Anajmi as well ? If not, just follow his posts;.... and perhaps you could also post your own opinion in the process.



Unread post by Guest » Sat Jun 22, 2002 4:16 am

I am sorry to disappoint you all (don't I just love to do that) but I do not support FGM without the acknowledgement of the girl. No girl should be forced to do it and it should not be made compulsory. The prophet did not and we shouldn't either.



Unread post by Guest » Sat Jun 22, 2002 4:35 am

Male circumcision may not have any medical benefits. The only reason my parents made sure I was circumcised and I will make sure my son (if I have a son) is circumcised is because the prophet (pbuh) said so.



Unread post by Guest » Sat Jun 22, 2002 10:24 am

<br>Muslim First = Anajmi?<p>Definatly not<p>



Unread post by Guest » Sat Jun 22, 2002 1:48 pm

Anajmi,<p>My apologies for misrepresenting your views on this topic.