Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

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Ozdundee
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#871

Unread post by Ozdundee » Mon May 15, 2017 2:58 am

If there are any FD members in USA willing to assist the eradication of FGM amongst Dawoodi Bohras minors . please contact the FBI


Crater Lake wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 5:27 pm
SBM wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 5:13 pm
Br Biradar and Sister CL
I am not in any way suggesting that women should not be allowed to decide what should they do with their bodies but I was trying to make a point about Fatemi Dawat's reaction. To me it is Johnny come lately approach.
Again if Fatemi Dawat followers were speaking out against FGM for 2 decades then why SKQ and STF did not issue a decree and waited only after they were forced to do.
To Sister Crater Lake: Would STF approve of women not wearing Rida and attending the Majaalis. Would he approve of Tattoos on their bodies? Again my point he still left the wiggle room in his edict and if the court rules in favor of SMS, he may revert back to please the base.
Ah but you are so wrong. STF's base is not supportive of cutting of minors. STF IS NOT supportive of cutting of minors. I still don't understand what is so suspicious about his timing. His statement was a very swift response to the request by the activists. An issue was brought to his notice and he reacted swiftly with compassion. The timing of his statement was as suspicious as the timing of the request that he responded to.

Secondly the FD person who has been opposed to khafz for a while was part of a unified community under Syedna Burhanuddin until January 2014. She was agitating among friends and family to save little girls in her circle, including her daughter. She was fighting a lone battle. this was about 20 years ago and there was no social media ubiquity for her voice to be heard throughout the community.

As far as burning issues such as tattoos or rida wearing or attending majlis, STF has long held that there is no compulsion in deen. The doors to his guidance are always open and those who seek his wisdom will receive it.



dal-chaval-palidu
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#872

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed May 17, 2017 12:40 am

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l ... 101767636/


Bid to end parental rights advances in mutilation case



Biradar
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#873

Unread post by Biradar » Wed May 17, 2017 9:07 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 12:40 am
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l ... 101767636/


Bid to end parental rights advances in mutilation case
This will be a terrible miscarriage of justice. Even though the father of this girl should be held responsible for using his clinic for FGM, punishing the daughter by putting her through stress and uncertainty is not good. The parents, whatever be their faults, still love their child and do what they consider the best for them. It is clear from an even cursory analysis of Bohra families, that the children are happy and like any other kids in their schools and communities. Taking them away will lead to additional trauma to them, and this should be avoided. Unfortunately, at this point the FBI and child protective services are going overboard. These girls are at no additional harm. Letting them stay with their parents and grandparents is the right thing to do.



dal-chaval-palidu
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#874

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed May 17, 2017 10:19 am

Biradar wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 9:07 am
dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 12:40 am
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l ... 101767636/


Bid to end parental rights advances in mutilation case
This will be a terrible miscarriage of justice. Even though the father of this girl should be held responsible for using his clinic for FGM, punishing the daughter by putting her through stress and uncertainty is not good. The parents, whatever be their faults, still love their child and do what they consider the best for them. It is clear from an even cursory analysis of Bohra families, that the children are happy and like any other kids in their schools and communities. Taking them away will lead to additional trauma to them, and this should be avoided. Unfortunately, at this point the FBI and child protective services are going overboard. These girls are at no additional harm. Letting them stay with their parents and grandparents is the right thing to do.
+1. I agree Br. Birader. It is not like bohras have any other skeletons in their closet that these children are at additional risk. This was the one thing and that we do, and nothing else (that I am ware of). However, it appears that the children are with the grandparents and other relatives, and I believe that they should be allowed to stay with the immediate relatives. And the right to bring up those children should be with the grandparents and the other relatives.

May be the authorities are doing this to threaten the parents and others into talking - to the extent that it eliminates the practice and punishes those who perpetuate the practice, fine. But doing stuff that punishes the children is not a good idea.



SBM
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#875

Unread post by SBM » Wed May 17, 2017 10:51 am

It is unfortunate that these children are being traumatized once again.
I wish people from these areas will reach out to Non Bohra Muslims and ask them to court and show support for the children since Alavi and Fatemi leaders have their own skin to save.
Unfortunately Bohra Clergy will not cooperate with this strategy as they get exposed to entire Muslim Ummah and face negative publicity during the month of Ramadan and other areas



Ozdundee
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#876

Unread post by Ozdundee » Wed May 17, 2017 1:31 pm

Laws are made for a purpose and deter further criminal activity . The parents are convicted of serious sex crimes. Bohras may trivialize however the general public does not. Children being separated from criminal parents, is required by law. The authorities are applying laws as required. They can not be lenient. Leniency is a justice system consideration when sentencing.

Similarly during separation of victim of rape are not asked to continue staying with rapists. Or spouses of domestic violence asked to live with violent husbands even though the husband claims to love the wife.

Now regarding stress to children one should consider we don't have full data or research how many children are mentally affected by FGM while Bohra upbringing tries to hush the practise and timing of FGM at 7 ensure they forget it as they and move on. That too me interesting fact we can guess.

I think Bohras have to get it in their minds these authorities are not after them, the victim here is the child not the community, community is only victim of embarrassment . It is sad the community did not consider the wellbeing of the child when surveys indicate 80% of girls are undergoing FGM. Its not that there are only 1 or 2 cases. Its 1 or 2 cases caught , while thousands are FGM every month in india right this moment.



Biradar
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#877

Unread post by Biradar » Wed May 17, 2017 9:45 pm

What are you talking about? In US law, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Hence, even though they have been arrested, they are not criminals. The case has to go to trial and then, and only then, if they are found guilty are they "criminals".

Also, even criminals get to raise their kids. I have lived and grown up amongst Bohras. Yes, there are a lot of problems. Child abuse is not one of them! FGM is terrible, and we want it stopped. But taking away kids from their otherwise loving and caring parents is a gross injustice. Perhaps you have grown so hard-hearted, and have no kids of your own, that you can say such ridiculous things.



objectiveobserver53
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#878

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Wed May 17, 2017 10:02 pm

Biradar wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 9:45 pm
What are you talking about? In US law, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Hence, even though they have been arrested, they are not criminals. The case has to go to trial and then, and only then, if they are found guilty are they "criminals".

Also, even criminals get to raise their kids. I have lived and grown up amongst Bohras. Yes, there are a lot of problems. Child abuse is not one of them! FGM is terrible, and we want it stopped. But taking away kids from their otherwise loving and caring parents is a gross injustice. Perhaps you have grown so hard-hearted, and have no kids of your own, that you can say such ridiculous things.
I have to agree with Biradar here. Taking away children from parents after the FGM is performed is pointless. Unless you count brain-washing by Muffy mullahs as child abuse ( I could be convinced that it is...,) these parents are not likely to conduct another act of abuse on their children. So if the goal of the law enforcement is to stop the brain-washing, they can take the children away. Otherwise, it is just bad karma to separate children from parents. Prosecuting parents in this matter is the wrong way to deal with this. The leadership needs to be punished severely. Dawat e hadiyah has tens of millions of dollars of properties in the US....it would be awesome if these properties can be used as leverage to hobble the leadership. It would avoid the human cost of parental separation and get rid of the brain washing mullahs all in one swoop.



dal-chaval-palidu
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#879

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Thu May 18, 2017 12:10 am

Please look at the specific article. In this case the parents are currently in jail. Child Protective services has NOT taken the children away from the immediate family. The children are with the grandparents and other relatives. The issue at hand (even if it is fully implemented) is about terminating the rights of the parents (Dr Attar and his wife); even if that happens the grandparents will have the rights to bring up the children. So it is not unreasonable. Did I misread anything?

It is unlikely that CPS will take the children from the immediate family - at least I hope that they don't do that.



Ozdundee
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#880

Unread post by Ozdundee » Thu May 18, 2017 3:53 am

Again same sympathy they are not guilty until proven, the charged have admitted to their crimes in the case of doctors they are fighting the process of how they were investigated and claiming no assault occured.
,
Why sympathetic to the doctors and parents. And for a matter disfiguring a childs sexuality or ritualistic touching her private parts when not for medical reasons falls under sexual abuse when no consent was give. In this case the parental consent resulted in a criminal activity. It is falls under sex crime acts in many countries
Same lame excuses like when Sydney case started people seating in fence.

The aim here is to scare the shit out of cutters and mothers to stop this practise. And whoever comes in the way to pervert or obstruct justice and facilitate crime whether reformists or commentators will be taken to task.

it has gone to court , it a process to make sure miscarriage of justice does not occur or case fails due to technicality or procedure ..


The parents need to be charged. Yes separation here means many types remove the issue that the defense is stating they need bail to look after the children and remove parental concern if interviewing children in precense of accused parents. They are only removed from influencing children. They also need to sort that out as they will be serving jail term and children will be used as excuse to try home detention like in Sydney.

The FBI would have not gone this far on a loose opportunistic innuendo. They know what they are doing. They are far professional than what people assume. Infact FBI are now at their most alert since Trump have an issue with FBI.

The defense will try anything to flex the case. The best outcome in Detroit case will be if the prosecutors and judge are women. Male judges can be soft. Apo Steve thats for you.

Bohras i don't negotiate in this matter no softness or sympathy. You had 5 years to open your eyes and stop these. No more. Yes try what you may to define khatna whether it is FGM or not. Bohra ritual of FGM will be stopped even if it means dragging parents, shazadi and busaheba through courts. Any sympathizer as mentioned before take a stand you are noticed . If abdes thought this will blow away bhulay jase. Well see the results in 2 years, this will snowball.

Like in terrorism or drugs it is troubling the conversation is towards victim card.



Crater Lake
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#881

Unread post by Crater Lake » Thu May 18, 2017 6:38 am

As a bohra woman whose mother took her to be cut all those years ago, I can tell that I would not have wanted my mother to be taken away from me. She was also the victim of a systemic problem. She thought she was fulfilling a religious obligation for me. She was a loving and caring mother in every other way. She had hot meals ready every single day when I returned from school and she sat by my bedside when I was ill. All the bohra women I know are loving (if misguided about FGM) mothers. Yes, even those who socially boycotted us. Prosecuting the parents and punishing them by separating them from the children is punishing the children all over again. Even though I consider myself a victim of FGM and I made sure to spare my daughters, I am not so crazed by vindictiveness that I would advocate that children be separated from loving parents. I don't care if the FBI notices. I would repeat this to them. As we saw, the courts sent the children of the other parents, back to the parents.

I see that Sahiyo are also advocating leniency towards parents.



Biradar
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#882

Unread post by Biradar » Thu May 18, 2017 8:21 am

Well said, Crater Lake! There are always extremists on either side. Some have no sympathy at all, even if it means destroying otherwise healthy family units. Some, on the opposite side, are stuck on barbarian practices, just because mullah said so. There is little to distinguish either side.

As to "brainwashing". The state has absolutely no right to classify any religious practices as "brainwashing". Only physical harm can be punished, and not words or beliefs. The US Constitution is very clear on this. Hence, CPS can't use any religious beliefs as reason to suspend parental rights.



Ozdundee
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#883

Unread post by Ozdundee » Thu May 18, 2017 7:08 pm

Lets agree to disagree.

I don't speak for Sahiyo or PDB .

Law enforcement to the full its not their job to apply for variable situations but enforce and leave it to the courts.

If we get emotional this will never eradicate. It is one of few communities that has institutionalised FGM across its fabric. The mothers, leaders and clergy had enough warning . Too late to debate consequences. These professional parents are intellectually trained to not follow traditions blindly. Sydney and Detroit the crimes were committed by doctors , nurses, pharmacists, lawyers, scholars, PhD from professional wealthy prominent families. They all conspired knowingly . Now seeking parental sympathy.

Anyone caught in 2016 onwards should face the full music especially if they live in the west.

Anyway i have said enough. I Move on, some of the phantom warriors are fighting in India, it is the focus. Ban it in India and Pakistan commentators your contribution in new frontier will be appreciated. It may also need shock and awe.

We also need cases in East Africa there is rampant FGM going on. Middle East too. Matter of time.



seeker110
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#884

Unread post by seeker110 » Thu May 18, 2017 8:07 pm

George Carlin has mentioned FGM on his 2013 New York show. Just watch the last two mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVlkxrNlp10&t=267s (list of people who ought to be killed).



yfm
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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#885

Unread post by yfm » Fri May 19, 2017 1:56 am

These recent dai's are all educated from Western universities because their dad's could afford expensive universities. The question for them is that do they honestly believe that Hurutul Malek would approve the Dai's would make their heirs the next dai's? That kind of succession planning is illegal and Haram. They know it yet they are not afraid of Allah and His Justice. What kind of dai's are these?



Ozdundee
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#886

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri May 19, 2017 11:24 am

Its a great day for so called extremists of child protection.Scoreboard is lighting up.

2 cases, penalties tightened in countries around the world, custody issues may loose your daughters respect and access, ....

Its not worth it....

Fence seaters ..George Bush words....are you with us or against us.....Its a war on FGM ....and yes their will be casualties..

too much in it no second thoughts....

Sahiyo go and finish the job. Its a long hard slog. India is the new frontier 90% of Bohras live there, SMS strong hold, no law yet, corrupt BJP ally of abdes Bohras who are pro FGM. But start the long process. FD show your support...fund the FGM fight, the most public issue facing Dawoodi Bohra at present or collaborate with anti child FGM.


Western FGM activists you know where the Indian and Pakistan Embessy are in USA, Canada, UK, Europe start lobbying. Start talking. Take the message to them ...
A bill that would charge parents who subject their children to the procedure with a felony passed a key committee in the Minnesota State House early this month, the most dramatic response yet from local authorities. Ten other states already have laws subjecting parents or guardians and the cutters themselves to prosecution.

"Minnesota needs to send a strong message that we won't stay silent and that the punishment will be harsh, including the potential loss of parental custody of these innocent victims," Mary Franson, the state legislator who authored the measure, said in a statement.

For its part, Michigan is reportedly moving to terminate Nagarwala's parental rights over her own two children, including her 11-year-old daughter who allegedly underwent FGM. Fakhruddin Attar, who is charged with lending his medical clinic to Nagarwala to perform FGM as part of conspiracy to commit the procedure, and his wife, Farida, who allegedly held the two Minnesota girls' hands as it was performed, could also lose their own parental rights. (The couple deny the charges.) More cases are pending following the investigation, in which girls thought to have undergone FGM were examined and questioned, along with some parents.

ADVERTISEMENT

The accused are all Dawoodi Bohra, a small sect of Shia Islam led by a religious leader based in India. Following an FGM case against a Bohra doctor in Australia in 2015, the sect's leader seemingly doubled-down on the importance of the practice as a religious obligation. Leaders of communities in the US and other countries where FGM is illegal, however, issued letters advising members to follow area laws—not religious edicts—after Nagarwala's arrest last month.

Check out the VICE News doc on the procedure that can reverse female genital mutilation.


The problem with enforcing FGM laws rests on the notion of deviance, according to Jacinta Muteshi-Strachan, who works on women's rights issues at the Population Council, a human rights group. "Where it is done, most others expect one to do it, and any family that did not would lose social status or even membership, and their daughter would not attain status as an adult or as a marriageable woman," she said in an email. "A law imposed from outside can lack legitimacy among people with such beliefs."

But beliefs in FGM seem to be changing.

Eighty percent of the Bohra women living in the US surveyed by the anti-FGM organization Sahiyo between 2015 and 2016 had undergone the procedure as kids. Eighty-two percent of them indicated that they are unlikely or extremely unlikely to continue khatna, the parochial name for the procedure, on their own daughters.

More than half a million US-based women and girls had either undergone or were at risk of FGM in 2012 based on the documented prevalence of the procedure in the countries of their ethnic origin, according to a study by the Centers for Disease Control. Notably, that study did not include figures for India, where the Bohra community partly originates.

Mariya Taher co-founded the group Sahiyo to address the prevalence of FGM in the Bohra community—and to help eradicate the practice by bringing it out of the shadows. Although she underwent FGM herself as a seven-year-old in India, she didn't realize it until the subject came up over the course of her studies in college.

Regarding her own mother's decision to have her cut, Taher said in a phone interview, "I feel like it was done because she cared for me and believed it had to be done."

"It's important to recognize that this is so ingrained as a social norm that sometimes women carrying out [FGM] don't think they're doing anything wrong," Taher added.

While there was no federal law against FGM when she went through it, the 34-year-old advocate wonders if her mother would have felt empowered to stand up against the practice even if there had been. Instead, her mother brought an aunt along because she couldn't bear seeing her daughter in so much pain.

Taher very much wants to stop a practice she sees as brutal, but has "mixed feelings" about taking custody away from parents who subject their daughters to FGM, not least because of the caring family life she enjoyed despite being cut.

That's the argument Margaret Raben is making on behalf of the three families she's representing in child-protection service investigations in Michigan. "[M]y clients should not lose custody of their children because they are loving attentive parents and their children are thriving under their care," she said in an email. "If they let something be done to their daughters—a fact that has NOT been established yet—they did this out of a profound belief that it was required by their religion. You and I can disagree with them about that, but they did not act with malice or bad intent."

But intention is beside the point according to Shelby Quast, director of the women's rights organization Equality Now. The most severe forms of FGM can affect survivors "every time they urinate, every time they have a menstrual cycle, every time they have sex it can be excruciating, as well as during childbirth," she told me. "I think many times all of those side effects hadn't been connected as outcomes of female genital mutilation [among parents]."

Dealing with it as child abuse is essential, Quast adds, to ensure that "first responders and mandatory responders are being trained not only on how to recognize it and prevent it, but what to do when it has happened."

Zehra Patwa is an anti-FGM activist and member of the Bohra community who believes parents should pay a price for subjecting their children to FGM. Still, she cautions, loss of custody might be too harsh a penalty, suggesting instead education classes or community service.

After all, a lot of parents she's spoken to regretted having their daughters cut. And a series of high-profile cases with big prison sentences could spread fear and serve to bury the problem even deeper underground.

"If those parents came forward with who the cutters are, who their daughters were cut by, we could actually put a stop to this," Patwa said.




dal-chaval-palidu
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#887

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sat May 20, 2017 1:36 am

Ozdundee wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 11:24 am

..........................................

Western FGM activists you know where the Indian and Pakistan Embessy are in USA, Canada, UK, Europe start lobbying. Start talking. Take the message to them ...
One approach could be to convince Pakistan to ban it as it is un-Islamic. And if that is done, it will help in India - one thing India will not like is to be perceived as more "anti-small girls" as compared to Pakistan :D Tell India: Your record on this is even worse than Pakistan, and it may get some traction in India.




yfm
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#889

Unread post by yfm » Sat May 20, 2017 1:24 pm

They are not afraid of Allah because they know that Allah created the bohra community, and if Allah did not put sense in to these bohras, then who is to blame, Allah or the Dai's?



Ozdundee
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#890

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sat May 20, 2017 8:24 pm

Well done women activists tireless fight. Keep going Pakistan then Middle East ,
Africa...

Mind you there are womem outside sahiyo fighting too .Sister reformer alias sxxxxxxx this achievement is for you too! You have been on it for so long.
“We will write to respective state governments and Syedna, the Bohra high priest shortly to issue an edict to community members to give up FGM voluntarily as it is a crime under Indian Penal Code (IPC) and Protection of Children from Sexual Offenses (POCSO) Act, 2012. If the Syedna does not respond then we will bring in a law to ban the practice in India,” Gandhi told HT.
Sayednas too late the women are now leaders of reforms. You had 2 years to lead on this issue now you will follow and comply.

No need for new laws , comply with existing laws. if still the die hards are stubborn , follow western examples ; Catch criminals in the act, review and tighten laws and make examples .
clippedwings wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 11:35 am
Khatna to be banned in India

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 5zAAM.html



objectiveobserver53
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#891

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sun May 21, 2017 12:11 pm

It is Modi's bad luck that the only muslim support he has is from the genital mutilating, money laundering, Mufaddali cult. They belong there along with the gau rakshak thought police. If ever there was a basket of deplorables...



yfm
Posts: 161
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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#892

Unread post by yfm » Sun May 21, 2017 3:25 pm

Subject: Maneka Gandhi, Minister of Women and Child Development, said FGM (Bohra Girls’ clitoris cutting) is an offence under Indian Penal Code 320, 323, 324, 325. Cutter, parents, Bhaisaheb, Amil, and other involved, would be punished. Syedna Mufaddal, for public consumption has advised his Bohra followers, to obey laws of land; but, behind the curtains, advocates girl’s Khatna. How would he wiggle out?[/u][/b]

In response to Maneka who represents Womens Lip Movement, we must say that the FGM is a personal matter between oneself and one's religious beliefs. The state has no right to enter in to our bedrooms since India proclaims to be a democracy. Let men start the compaign of MGM and see the response from the world and other religious organization. A smart lawyer should defend the doctors who perform such procedures by comparing it with the MGM and why no such charges are laid on doctors who perform such procedures on boys. This is called discriminatory practices. The Church does not encourage MGM. But the Jewish and Islam condones it. If FGM is so important to the women, why pick on the Bohras and their spiritual leaders for FGM only. Men should start the MGM compaign and see the uproar from the world and hear what Maneka Ghandi has to say.

Chagrined Bohra



objectiveobserver53
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#893

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Mon May 22, 2017 4:24 am

This is an old debate that has been settled for years now. It is on all the websites that debate FGM vs male circumcision. Some important points:

Penis is manifold larger than clitoris - especially the undeveloped clitoris of a child. Risk of injury to glans is negligible in males and very high in a girl child.
Clitoris is manifold more innervated than penis hence risk of loss of sensitivity due to abrasion of exposed glans is much much higher for women.
Male circumcision has known and universally accepted health benefits. FGM has no known health benefits.
Men are not complaining by the thousands that circumcision has caused them harm. If men perceive that to be a problem, they should start a campaign!



yfm
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#894

Unread post by yfm » Mon May 22, 2017 5:39 pm

Let us review your answers below:

Penis is manifold larger than clitoris - especially the undeveloped clitoris of a child. Risk of injury to glans is negligible in males and very high in a girl child.
Clitoris is manifold more innervated than penis hence risk of loss of sensitivity due to abrasion of exposed glans is much much higher for women.
Male circumcision has known and universally accepted health benefits. FGM has no known health benefits.
Men are not complaining by the thousands that circumcision has caused them harm. If men perceive that to be a problem, they should start a campaign. !

1. How many women do you represent who perceive this to be a problem? In all these hundreds of years, it is only a few like you who believe because you have loss of the sexual pleasure you profess, you want to humiliate the whole community and their religious beliefs.

2. Penis is manifold larger than clitoris - especially the undeveloped clitoris of a child. Risk of injury to glans is negligible in males and very high in a girl child.
The procedures is being done in hospitals these days. In villages it is being done by experienced women just like when helping in child birth

3. Clitoris is manifold more innervated than penis hence risk of loss of sensitivity due to abrasion of exposed glans is much much higher for women. Again these have been done for many years and I am sure your mother went through the procedure and never complained.

4. Male circumcision has known and universally accepted health benefits. FGM has no known health benefits.
Prevents promiscuous behavior.

5. Men are not complaining by the thousands that circumcision has caused them harm. If men perceive that to be a problem, they should start a campaign.

I do not believe women are complaining by the thousands also. It is only few women who do so for selfish reasons. Sex is not love, is what they should remember.

What you are describing is not what many fathers and mothers practice or indulge in. Like every one, children are a blessing and everyone loves their own kids and it hurts them when these children suffer. But these women who want to humiliate the bohras because of FGM and who because of their selfish sexual pleasures want to exert their wills on everyone else is shameful and despicable. I am sure, like many fathers and respectable mothers, I do not want my daughters to be promiscuous just because of sexual pleasures. Sex must have responsibility of taking care of their kids and the pleasure of having kids and rearing them is much more gratifying than having a clitoris and one night stands.



objectiveobserver53
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Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#895

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Mon May 22, 2017 9:04 pm

^^^Firstly, I am a man, not a woman but I respect the women in my life enough that I can TRUST them to make the right decisions using their BRAIN. I do not feel compelled to cut their body parts in order to ensure chastity. Your arguments are so repulsive and your assumptions are so disgusting that I pity the women in your life. You seem to have no respect for women and as such I have nothing more to say to you.



ajamali
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#896

Unread post by ajamali » Mon May 22, 2017 9:13 pm

I can see why yfm feels he needs a wife who has been cut up in order for her to be faithful to him. If you were a real man yfm, perhaps you would be able to handle a whole woman!



yfm
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#897

Unread post by yfm » Tue May 23, 2017 12:21 am

Whether I can handle a whole woman is a question for the woman. It is not whether I have the balls or the penis that matters to women. Women are not objects for sexual pleasures. If my religion guides me to follow a practice, and if my forefathers have followed it, then who am I to turn around and claim that a womans clitoris determines my manhood. My manhood as I have found in life has nothing to do with the size of my penis or the size of the womans clitoris. Thieir sexual pleasure. These are the same women who will complain if the man do not perform well in bed. Are these the kinds of women you want as your wives and mothers. Are we to behave as the English Aristocrats who indulged in sexual pleasures. Or are we going to make sure our daughters do not let their clitoris take them to places where they temptation should not lead them to go.

Come on my friends. Grow up. You are like little boys who want dogs but when they bite you, you become afraid of them. Let women who want are campaigning for FGM not be the ones who will accuse you for not satisfying their sexual urges no matter how big a penis you have. :evil:



Bohra spring
Posts: 1233
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#898

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue May 23, 2017 12:45 am

Reader discretion advised. Sometimes dialogue is not advisable

***********

let me credit yfm for speaking what an orthdox man would say. I would have guessed but he she have done us a great favour by speaking the mind.

Now let me getup i fell off my chair reading your comments. I don't know anger laughter goose bumps all in one so i am now stumbling


Did you mean women are like breeding machine, like hens to produce more abdes...

Or fgm them jeez just incase they flirt around better men rather than be with bearded men wearing a smelly cap, pants with no undies who finish their mountain climb in 100 secs........hint hint

Or is it a inferiority complex that someone may romance our women away. So you keep them in bondage. Insecure fools

Love in your mind is servitude and caring making roti and serving tea. Love making is batal. Only men are intitled to orgxxxx

Your love idea without pleasure applies to you as you are more concerned by your community reputation than the violent abuse on children

I want you to volunteer ..chop it off, bear the pain like mardh...go around as eunuch and supress your pleasure needs. Then after one month come here and explain your breeding capacity wonderful life with no need of certain biological needs.

Unless you are already in that state. Than i can forgive you as you are already suffering and psychopathic

Little boys wanting dogs ..what was that..also you should read small or big is not what matters. If you have small it is the skill and art....jeez. i wish i could meet u in person just want to test my punch, something has gone off in your upbringing.



yfm
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#899

Unread post by yfm » Tue May 23, 2017 12:53 am

It is very sad that when the girls whom these FGM supporters are taken away from their families and placed in foster homes or in some kind shelter, none of you bohra who call yourselves MAN will spend a dime to come to their rescue. The women who are so concerned about their sexual pleasures will not sacrifice a hoot to take care of these young girls. That is what you folks do.

God bless these small girls from the satans like you.



Ozdundee
Posts: 790
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

#900

Unread post by Ozdundee » Tue May 23, 2017 1:30 am

Where is Al Zulifiqar SBM when you need them..

Yfm you know how to stir up emotions...i hope you dont mean what you wrote, its just talk right?