Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Adam
Posts: 1261
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#211

Unread post by Adam » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:10 am

sorry babe
Dawoodi Bohras will stick to Daim and its farman as its source. take care.

anajmi
Posts: 13506
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#212

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:14 am

Dawoodi Bohras will stick to Daim and its farman as its source. take care.
Not really. We have many Dawoodi Bohras who have turned from this fake religion who come and participate over here as progressives. They might not reveal themselves and still might continue to mingle with other abde idiots, but they are no more stuck to the Daim and its farman. They only pretend to be stuck to it when around abde idol worshippers, but in reality they are probably singing jaago mohan pyaare jaago instead of ghanu jeevo.

Adam
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#213

Unread post by Adam » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:17 am

zulfaqar is talking a bunch of senseless baseless lies.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#214

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:17 am

Adam wrote:
Dawoodi Bohras will stick to Daim and its farman as its source.
this is not enough. please specify the sources for this belief of yours and bring forth your imams and dais in support of your arguments. thanks.

porus
Posts: 3594
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#215

Unread post by porus » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:29 am

Adam wrote:
Whether I know these benefits or not is irrespective. I must follow it. For the Prophet SAW can see much more further than me.
My love for Islam, its Prophet and accepting his farmaan should be more important to me, than my own imperfect understanding.
Interesting, Adam. You may not understand the reasons behind Prophet's farmaans but you understand perfectly that Muhammad is the Prophet who must be unconditionally obeyed. Where did you get this certainty from?

Let me go further. You believe in inadmissibility of questioning and opposing ancient DB(?) books even if you do not understand some of their intent. However, you are certain that these books represent Prophet's commands. How did you arrive at that certainty?

Fundamentalists Christians, Jews and Hindus too have unquestioning certainty about their books and their cult leaders. Why did you attain certainty in DB books and DB cult leaders and not in other religions' books and cult leaders. Or what makes you certain that yours is the only correct one and those of others are false?

Let me add that just as Christians, Jews and Hindus retain their identities without agreeing and even opposing Fundamentalists, why do you think DB's cannot do that and cease being DB's if they do?

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#216

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:14 am

profastian wrote:
sixfeetunder wrote:Question for Adam - Let us assume that FGM is prescribed in the sharia. My question for you is - What good does FGM do to the female? What is the rational, scientific, modern and wise reasoning behind this holy excision? How does it help the female? This is an important question as it concerns half of humanity.
By your logic what is the reason for the male circumcision? More than half of human males are not circumcised. What difference does it make? And if even some cleanliness reason exists, is it proportional to the importance attached to it in sharia?
The biggest and best secular doctors can vouch for the multifarious benefits of male circumcision. You can make an online search. Even if we consider there are no benefits in male circumcision, there are no disadvantages either! Do males lose erection after circumcision?

However, in the case of Female circumcision or FGM, there are known disadvantages. You can google that one too! One of them being the reduction of pleasure derived from sexual intercourse. Other proven disadvantages are problems in child delivery and infections. Historically, FGM has been used to control the female. Insecure men can then be rest assured that their desire-less wives are not cheating on them.

It is a cruel thing to do! If it is indeed a religious obligation, why doesn't the Bohra priesthood conduct mass-FGM just like mass-marriage?

Stop mutilating your little girls. Love them instead. In the name of religion, don't become idiotic fools. Stop following dubious traditions. Just because you're born a Bohra, it doesn't mean you defend each and every custom to the hilt. Ismailis were never like this, historically. This new-found Bohra fervour is fanaticism. It is the birth of a terrorist mentality. This is the reason fundamentalists kill other people. They cannot stand other points of view even if they know they are in the wrong! Support truth. Don't support your sect. That is what Islam teaches you.

My question for Adam still remains where it was - what are the advantages of FGM? He can't get away with the one word holy answer called 'taharat'. Please explain what you mean and prove it citing verifiable sources. If there is no advantage at all, please say that and end the matter instead of the sharia-is-holier-than-thou and sharia-is-eternal-man-is-not gibberish. These are tactics employed by conmen who want to fool and control people.

For every thing Sharia has no answer for, you will come up with your sharia-is-eternal formula. This is ridiculous. This is like saying, "Please shut up and stop asking me questions because I have no answer and I am too lame to admit it. But hey, Sharia is eternal and I have a brain made from dust. My brain is too weak to understand the holy and eternal sharia. Since I have a weak hadith or two in my support, I am willing to use them to defend my beliefs which were handed down to me by my Holy Bohra parents. Actually, since my brain is really weak and limited, I just accepted those beliefs without thinking and questioning. So please mind your own business as I do not have a mind of my own."

Conscíous
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#217

Unread post by Conscíous » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:22 am

Adam wrote:
Woah, long post.
Yeah, we have some handicap people here, whom have a problem scrolling through a "long" post.. hehe :mrgreen:

Conscíous
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#218

Unread post by Conscíous » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:32 am

Adam wrote:

For crying out loud, can someone with brains please reply instead of this imbecile!

HAha :mrgreen:

Salaam brother Adam,
It's good to see you back and kicking :wink:

Adam
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#219

Unread post by Adam » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:46 am

@PORUS
However, you are certain that these books represent Prophet's commands. How did you arrive at that certainty?

(sixfeetunder wanted citations for the benefits of Circumcision).

Again RESPECTED brother. I've told you. Since you don't agree with the continuation of Imamat/Leader especially to this day, you wont understand or accept my posts.
We are certain that these books written under the guidance of the "true" leader of the time represent the Prophet's commands, because it's a LINK. Prophet taught Mowalana ALI AS, Mowlana ALI taught Imam Hasan AS, Imam taught DAI etc. We believe in this continuity. It is ever flowing river. No man can live without an authority. And he must make sure this authority is correct, and believe in it.
For example, a doctor or scientist.
Yesterday they proved Egg is bad for you, today they say its good. Most say smoking is bad for you, but there are some (idiots) that are trying to prove its good. Science is all about contradictions. How do you know who is right!
Why should we compare/limit of our practice SHARIAT (sent by an all knowing Prophet) to the "research or experiments" of imperfect scientists? You are they to decide what's right and wrong, when the Prophet as already told us. If a doctor tomorrow says that the positions in Salaat are bad for your back, who will you follow?
I'll repost what I said before:
Since this is a farman of Rasulullah and his Shariat, I have no doubt that ARE benefits in it. (Just like any other deed of Shariat). These benefits maybe materialistic/physical and/or metaphysical, for long term benefits, some which may not be in my capacity to understand.

Whether I know these benefits or not is irrespective. I must follow it. For the Prophet SAW can see much more further than me.
My love for Islam, its Prophet and accepting his farmaan should be more important to me, than my own imperfect understanding.

Rather than discussing its benefits, as TRUE Muslims, you should first decide whether this is in fact a law of the Prophet. If it is, you follow it, if it isn't you don't.
For a Dawoodi Bohra, it is definitely a farmaan of the Prophet, thus, those who claim to be DBs must practice it.

Your practices should not be based on "The Prophet may or may not have said it, only if I understand its benefits will I perform it". This is not the belief of a TRUE Muslim, rather his submission (Islam) is actually what Islam really is.
This is not "blind faith", rather it is TOTAL FAITH and belief in the Prophet, and that he knows what's best for us.

This is our belief and understanding.


@sixfeetunder
If there is no advantage at all, please say that and end the matter instead of the sharia-is-holier-than-thou and sharia-is-eternal-man-is-not gibberish. These are tactics employed by conmen who want to fool and control people.

These comments show a total lack of faith in Shariat of Islam and the Prophet. Whether I know the benefits or not is secondary. That's all I have to say.

Udaipuri
Posts: 79
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#220

Unread post by Udaipuri » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:53 am

Adam wrote:We are certain that these books written under the guidance of the "true" leader of the time represent the Prophet's commands, because it's a LINK. Prophet taught Mowalana ALI AS, Mowlana ALI taught Imam Hasan AS, Imam taught DAI etc. We believe in this continuity. It is ever flowing river. No man can live without an authority. And he must make sure this authority is correct, and believe in it.
Hey Adam,
How come this ever flowing river full of belief in correct auhtority is ending up into the ocean of human (child) worship?
Image

SBM
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#221

Unread post by SBM » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:15 pm

BooM wrote:
Adam wrote:
Woah, long post.
Yeah, we have some handicap people here, whom have a problem scrolling through a "long" post.. hehe :mrgreen:
So Boom Boy are you calling Adam a handicap person :wink:

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#222

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:09 pm

@sixfeetunder
If there is no advantage at all, please say that and end the matter instead of the sharia-is-holier-than-thou and sharia-is-eternal-man-is-not gibberish. These are tactics employed by conmen who want to fool and control people.
These comments show a total lack of faith in Shariat of Islam and the Prophet. Whether I know the benefits or not is secondary. That's all I have to say.[/quote]

Thank you for admitting that you do not know about a single benefit of FGM. How would you know, since there is no benefit!

You highlighted my word 'gibberish'. Gibberish means unintelligible talk which you employ. Sharia is not gibberish. Your unintelligible rant is! Instead of answering a simple question, you attacked my faith. You like to judge people, don't you? You purposely misread my comment, so you could develop an excuse to backtrack!

It is absolutely 'primary' to know the benefits of something you're defending so religiously! If you really do not know of any benefit, it makes you sound so stupid, right? I know. Hence, you go round and round!

:)

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#223

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:30 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:now let us turn our attention to male 'circumcision' among abde dawoodi bohras...

whereas all other muslims perform it only once in their lifetimes, dawoodi abde bohras undergo it twice. once in infancy when the male organ is circumcised and the second time in adulthood when the abde brain is circumcised during misaaq as a form of emasculation.

this selfless act of giving makes a devout abde habituated to donating more and more of his khaal to make jootis for syedna and his family.

the source for this practice is found in the secret texts which are in the possession of adam and his masters in saifee mahal.

Adam
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#224

Unread post by Adam » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:26 pm

@sixfeetunder
Thank you for admitting that you do not know about a single benefit of FGM.

I never said that. I said, whether I know it or not. And I did say the benefits.
1. Obeying the Prophet
2. Taharat (If you think "Taharat is a small concept" it shows your lack in belief, and you're sadly mistaken, it is a great benefit, but you're too materialistic to understand)

It is absolutely 'primary' to know the benefits of something you're defending so religiously!

No, like I said, it ISN'T "Primary" to know the benefits of a religious belief before i'm defending it, that comes at a latter stage. (You're ways may be applied for worldly matters, but not in religious practices)
What is "Primary" is first confirming that it is the ORDER of the PROPHET SAW. Because the Prophet SAW knows what's best for me, whether I know it or not, he can see much further, and HE is like a loving mother who will make her child do or refrain from something PRIMARILY to save the child from harm, and later on explain why she did what she did.
And NO, it doesn't make me "feel stupid", rather, it makes me feel proud that I have a loving-All Knowing mother who knows what's best for me, and will guide be correctly even when I may not know the reasons why.
Following the Prophet comes first. That is Primary.
If it isn't an order of the Prophet, according to me there's no point discussing it further.
According to Dawoodi Bohras. It IS an order of the Prophet and his Wasi Ali AS, and the Imams and Dais.

First clarify your stance on whether it is from the Prophet SAW or not.

Human
Posts: 382
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#225

Unread post by Human » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:21 am

Adam wrote:@sixfeetunder
Thank you for admitting that you do not know about a single benefit of FGM.

I never said that. I said, whether I know it or not. And I did say the benefits.
1. Obeying the Prophet
2. Taharat (If you think "Taharat is a small concept" it shows your lack in belief, and you're sadly mistaken, it is a great benefit, but you're too materialistic to understand)

It is absolutely 'primary' to know the benefits of something you're defending so religiously!

No, like I said, it ISN'T "Primary" to know the benefits of a religious belief before i'm defending it, that comes at a latter stage. (You're ways may be applied for worldly matters, but not in religious practices)
What is "Primary" is first confirming that it is the ORDER of the PROPHET SAW. Because the Prophet SAW knows what's best for me, whether I know it or not, he can see much further, and HE is like a loving mother who will make her child do or refrain from something PRIMARILY to save the child from harm, and later on explain why she did what she did.
And NO, it doesn't make me "feel stupid", rather, it makes me feel proud that I have a loving-All Knowing mother who knows what's best for me, and will guide be correctly even when I may not know the reasons why.
Following the Prophet comes first. That is Primary.
If it isn't an order of the Prophet, according to me there's no point discussing it further.
According to Dawoodi Bohras. It IS an order of the Prophet and his Wasi Ali AS, and the Imams and Dais.

First clarify your stance on whether it is from the Prophet SAW or not.
pffttt...so much for the benefits. I can write an essay on why FGM is harmful...

profastian
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#226

Unread post by profastian » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:40 am

I can write an essay on how doing Haj is just a waste of money and resources.
And ofcourse, you know how many essays are written against Jihad.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#227

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:00 am

Adam wrote:@sixfeetunder
Thank you for admitting that you do not know about a single benefit of FGM.

I never said that. I said, whether I know it or not. And I did say the benefits.
1. Obeying the Prophet
2. Taharat (If you think "Taharat is a small concept" it shows your lack in belief, and you're sadly mistaken, it is a great benefit, but you're too materialistic to understand)

It is absolutely 'primary' to know the benefits of something you're defending so religiously!

No, like I said, it ISN'T "Primary" to know the benefits of a religious belief before i'm defending it, that comes at a latter stage. (You're ways may be applied for worldly matters, but not in religious practices)
What is "Primary" is first confirming that it is the ORDER of the PROPHET SAW. Because the Prophet SAW knows what's best for me, whether I know it or not, he can see much further, and HE is like a loving mother who will make her child do or refrain from something PRIMARILY to save the child from harm, and later on explain why she did what she did.
And NO, it doesn't make me "feel stupid", rather, it makes me feel proud that I have a loving-All Knowing mother who knows what's best for me, and will guide be correctly even when I may not know the reasons why.
Following the Prophet comes first. That is Primary.
If it isn't an order of the Prophet, according to me there's no point discussing it further.
According to Dawoodi Bohras. It IS an order of the Prophet and his Wasi Ali AS, and the Imams and Dais.

First clarify your stance on whether it is from the Prophet SAW or not.

1. You have already been debunked on the 'Order from Prophet' and 'farmaan' by Anajmi and Porus.

2. I do not think 'Taharat' is a small concept. I firmly believe that Cleanliness is next to Godliness. But FGM is no way related to 'tahaarat'. In fact it can be the cause of various complications and infections. Hence, to practise 'tahaarat', one must avoid FGM. There is no smoke without fire. Open your eyes. FGM is cruel. Modern science proves it. Do not take shelter under the 'eternal-sharia' to defend your sectarian horrors. History is proof that thousands of ahadith have been played with, misused and fabricated to suit various agendas. They couldn't touch the Qur'an but it was easy to make new ahadith and attribute it to the Prophet.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7 ... ility.html

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/546497

http://www.path.org/files/FGM-The-Facts.htm

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/t ... index.html

As for your rants about the Prophet being 'the loving mother', I agree with you. What research about FGM has shown proves that the 'loving mother' would never have commanded her children to mutilate little girls and cause them dangers. The Prophet was the biggest scientist/sage/master the world has ever seen. The Prophet was endowed by divine knowledge by the Almighty Allah. He was the same man who saved little girls from being buried alive.

So, the question still remains: What are the modern, wise, practical, scientific, material advantages of FGM, which is (as per you) prescribed in the Sharia? If there are none, please explain its spiritual benefits, so materialistic people can at least appreciate that aspect and get enlightened.

If you have no legitimate answer, I end my discussion here.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#228

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:09 am

profastian wrote:I can write an essay on how doing Haj is just a waste of money and resources.
And ofcourse, you know how many essays are written against Jihad.
Performance of Hajj, once in the lifetime by an able person is one of the five pillars of Islam. FGM is not! FGM is based on a few narrations, the validity of which is debated and uncertain.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#229

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:35 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
now let us turn our attention to male 'circumcision' among abde dawoodi bohras...

whereas all other muslims perform it only once in their lifetimes, dawoodi abde bohras undergo it twice. once in infancy when the male organ is circumcised and the second time in adulthood when the abde brain is circumcised during misaaq as a form of emasculation.

this selfless act of giving makes a devout abde habituated to donating more and more of his khaal to make jootis for syedna and his family.

the source for this practice is found in the secret texts which are in the possession of adam and his masters in saifee mahal.

the coward adam and his cronies in crime, remain silent on this aspect of male circumcision among abde bohras..

Adam
Posts: 1261
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#230

Unread post by Adam » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:11 pm

@sixfeetunder
1. You have already been debunked on the 'Order from Prophet' and 'farmaan' by Anajmi and Porus.

Actually not, because it's already stated in Dawoodi Bohra texts according to IMAM ALIs order.
PORUS has yet to get back on my answey.
Anajmi doesn't agree with it, because he doesn't believe in Imam Ali AS. (If that's his stance, then he's entitled to that opinion). However, for someone who CLAIMS to be a follower of Imam Ali AS, must obey is farmaan. Nothing else.

2. I do not think 'Taharat' is a small concept. I firmly believe that Cleanliness is next to Godliness. But FGM is no way related to 'tahaarat'.

Actually it is related to Taharat. If you read any of the Dawoodi Bohra fiqh (law) books OR the Sunni/Shia books that are in favour of this, this chapter of Circumcision comes under the CHAPTER OF TAHARAT, (just after Wuzu etc).
So, the sole benefit is TAHARAT. That should should be good enough for any believer to follow.

Open your eyes. FGM is cruel. Modern science proves it.

This is where your argument goes extremely faulty.
You prove "cruelty" based on what "Modern Science" says, not what the Prophet SAW and Imam ALI AS wanted instead.
I respect science, but science is a study of theories. One man disagrees with another, there isn't any "eternal truth in it". What one scientist says is refuted by another a few years later. "Modern Science" back in the day talked of Geo-Centric system, today it says Helio Centric. "Modern science" proves Pig material is good for you. Would you obey what "Modern Science" says or what the Prophet says?
The teachings of Islam come above anything anyone else says.
That's why, first come to the crux of the matter. Did the Prophet or Imam ALI say it. Yes or No. That's all a true follower needs to know. Because you yourself talk so well of the Prophet,
The Prophet was the biggest scientist/sage/master the world has ever seen. The Prophet was endowed by divine knowledge by the Almighty Allah. He was the same man who saved little girls from being buried alive.
which at least shows you respect him, I don't know your opinion about the others:

History is proof that thousands of ahadith have been played with, misused and fabricated to suit various agendas.

True, that's why we follow our own authentic sources according to us.
By the way, you still haven't summed up the courage to cite your "sources of Islam and the Sunnah". So, what is it?

Adam
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#231

Unread post by Adam » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:22 pm

the coward adam and his cronies in crime, remain silent on this aspect of male circumcision among abde bohras..

I already answered it saying your claims of the 2nd Circumcision was baseless nonsense.
I also asked you to cite your sources for that incorrect information.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#232

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:28 pm

Adam wrote:
the coward adam and his cronies in crime, remain silent on this aspect of male circumcision among abde bohras..

I already answered it saying your claims of the 2nd Circumcision was baseless nonsense.
I also asked you to cite your sources for that incorrect information.
and i have already told you that these secret sources are in the possession of saifee mahal with 2 copies, one is with you and the second one with me.

Adam
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#233

Unread post by Adam » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:34 pm

@Zulfaqar: Immature idiot. :D

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#234

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:42 pm

Adam wrote:@Zulfaqar: Immature idiot. :D
adam,

this is not an acceptable reply. what are your religious sources for making such an outlandish claim? please quote your reference books and their authors. also bring forth the evidence from all nabis stretching back to nabi adam and then down to the last imam in support of your statement.

considering your extreme loyalty, devotion and obedience to the cult leader, you must have been circumcised atleast 3 times so syedna can wear jootis made from your khaal. correct?

anajmi
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#235

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:06 pm

considering your extreme loyalty, devotion and obedience to the cult leader, you must have been circumcised atleast 3 times so syedna can wear jootis made from your khaal. correct?
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I wonder what size jooti that might be.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#236

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:29 pm

anajmi wrote: I wonder what size jooti that might be
Enough to fit a finger............ now dont ask which one :mrgreen:

Human
Posts: 382
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#237

Unread post by Human » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:02 pm

profastian wrote:I can write an essay on how doing Haj is just a waste of money and resources.
And ofcourse, you know how many essays are written against Jihad.
Please do write an essay as I truly believe that it is a waste of money and resources which are rather better spent on the poor and starving. And Jihad in today's world equates to terrorism. Enough said.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#238

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:16 pm


sixfeetunder
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Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#239

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:18 am

Non-obligatory Hajj and Umrah maybe a waste of money and resources. But obligatory Hajj is definitely not. Islam is a world religion. Hajj is a meeting point for Muslims all around the world. Muslims get to know about their history, their Prophet and the birth-place of their great religion. Although Wahhabi buggers are destroying Islamic heritage for real estate, they can't destroy the love for Muhammad and his family from the hearts of millions of Sunni and Shia Muslims.

Hajj also depicts to the world what Islam really stands for - equality and peace - irrespective of caste, creed and colour. Muslim frogs also get a chance to come out of their wells into the open pond, mingling with other Muslim frogs, beetles, dragonflies, snails and midges. Hajj broadens their horizon!

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: FEMALE CIRCUMCISION

#240

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:38 am

Adam wrote:@sixfeetunder
1. You have already been debunked on the 'Order from Prophet' and 'farmaan' by Anajmi and Porus.

Actually not, because it's already stated in Dawoodi Bohra texts according to IMAM ALIs order.
PORUS has yet to get back on my answey.
Anajmi doesn't agree with it, because he doesn't believe in Imam Ali AS. (If that's his stance, then he's entitled to that opinion). However, for someone who CLAIMS to be a follower of Imam Ali AS, must obey is farmaan. Nothing else.

2. I do not think 'Taharat' is a small concept. I firmly believe that Cleanliness is next to Godliness. But FGM is no way related to 'tahaarat'.

Actually it is related to Taharat. If you read any of the Dawoodi Bohra fiqh (law) books OR the Sunni/Shia books that are in favour of this, this chapter of Circumcision comes under the CHAPTER OF TAHARAT, (just after Wuzu etc).
So, the sole benefit is TAHARAT. That should should be good enough for any believer to follow.

Open your eyes. FGM is cruel. Modern science proves it.

This is where your argument goes extremely faulty.
You prove "cruelty" based on what "Modern Science" says, not what the Prophet SAW and Imam ALI AS wanted instead.
I respect science, but science is a study of theories. One man disagrees with another, there isn't any "eternal truth in it". What one scientist says is refuted by another a few years later. "Modern Science" back in the day talked of Geo-Centric system, today it says Helio Centric. "Modern science" proves Pig material is good for you. Would you obey what "Modern Science" says or what the Prophet says?
The teachings of Islam come above anything anyone else says.
That's why, first come to the crux of the matter. Did the Prophet or Imam ALI say it. Yes or No. That's all a true follower needs to know. Because you yourself talk so well of the Prophet,
The Prophet was the biggest scientist/sage/master the world has ever seen. The Prophet was endowed by divine knowledge by the Almighty Allah. He was the same man who saved little girls from being buried alive.
which at least shows you respect him, I don't know your opinion about the others:

History is proof that thousands of ahadith have been played with, misused and fabricated to suit various agendas.

True, that's why we follow our own authentic sources according to us.
By the way, you still haven't summed up the courage to cite your "sources of Islam and the Sunnah". So, what is it?
If FGM can lead to infections and complications, how is it helping tahaarat? Would you care to explain?

Also, I pray to the Almighty, in the name of Muhammad and his family, to command the angels of torture to excise the genitalia of all those individuals who purposely, (well-knowing its effects upon the female) put their daughters to the FGM torture. If the parents go to hell, good enough. If they end up in heaven, please order the angels of torture to slash their genitalia before they approach the hooris. Allow the genitalia to grow and slash them again when they become desirous of the wide-eyed and well-endowed hooris. This way they may be able to experience completely and eternally, what it means to be a victim of FGM. Ameen.