Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#1

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:13 pm

Hi guys Anyone with ideas and comments if there is opportunity to reunite the three Bohra faction for a united culture and ancestry ?

I mean Dawoodi, Suleimani, Alawi open channels of sharing venues, interaction and social events where they agree and there is no conflict.

I note on YouTube Alawi are so close to us and they have less human worship than Abdes, they look, sound and speak so similar, we are Shias , and there is more in common than difference. I am encouraged by their transparency and courage to make their sermons public.

I think Mr Ali Asger engineer , progs in India has the credibility to start this long process of unification and if successful even after 40 years it is worth the legacy for the future generation. It is so easy to divide but unite is much harder and worth the challenge.

It is worth setting shared centers in overseas , allow intermarriage, etc.

Ala maqaam
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:23 am

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#2

Unread post by Ala maqaam » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:44 pm

yes better progs join Alawais,other wise these present leaders of this so called moment will lead them to hell.

not because they are taking away from so called DAI,but ultimately they are going away from the house of ahlul bayt.

Ala maqaam
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:23 am

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#3

Unread post by Ala maqaam » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:45 pm

the way progs are commenting on ahlul baayt aand mocking matam,and calling muharram as tamasha Astagferullah.

progs are in worst situation compare to any other shia ismaili sect.

canadian
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#4

Unread post by canadian » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:54 pm

Bhai ozmujaheed:

I believe all these three sects are family run businesses. For the last few generations the dais come from the same family and I doubt they will agree to loosen their grip on their individual fiefdoms. Perhaps progressive elements from the three groups might join together?

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#5

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:17 am

Alavi jamaat clergy refers to the Dawoodi Bohra community as "Mhoti" (big) jamaat. I've heard them say this to the people who attend their vaez, and I paraphrase - jo pela mhoti jamaat na logo kewa apna Dai ni khidmat karech. Aap loko kem ewi khidmat nathi karta. E loko si aapne seekhwu joiye. Aapna Dai to sacha Dai che pachi apne to e loko karta pan wadhare khidmat karwi joiye.

DMY
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:25 pm

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#6

Unread post by DMY » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:11 am

anajmi wrote:Alavi jamaat clergy refers to the Dawoodi Bohra community as "Mhoti" (big) jamaat. I've heard them say this to the people who attend their vaez, and I paraphrase - jo pela mhoti jamaat na logo kewa apna Dai ni khidmat karech. Aap loko kem ewi khidmat nathi karta. E loko si aapne seekhwu joiye. Aapna Dai to sacha Dai che pachi apne to e loko karta pan wadhare khidmat karwi joiye.
Gosh! The Dai is missing the fun and frolic!.. As canadian pointed, these have really become family run business.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#7

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:43 am

Dear OM

I second your thought about unity.

Frankly speaking, I have no detailed knowledge about the differences between Dawoodi, Suliemani, Alawi or other Bohra Factions, other than differences in opinion of following Duaats from various eras. I m of a generic opinion that several Duaats lead to own followings creating number of sub sects.

Difference of opinion is not tolerated anywhere in any religion / government / institution / corporate. This difference lead to many biased influences on confinement of thought and human spirit.

Being a simple commoner, busy with day to day life routine, never got a chance to retrospect such fragmentation. More ever knowledge sharing in our community is biased and restricted during sabaks and sermons. I attended few sabaks but our inner questions remains unanswered. Sabaks are session of self glorification and instilling in young minds superiority complex over other human kinds.

However during Sabaks / Bayans / Waaz there are points of differences explained over silly and frivolous matters. Stating;

“Ola logo aam kare che, aem kare che” I don’t understand who are these “Ola logo” . (Other Bohra factions, muslim sects, non muslims ?? )

In my opinion, why cant we be just one faith ! respect diversity and practice humanity, more or less all religions preach good for humanity. Mine is a wishful thinking, a dream too big to be true !!

Onus of uniting fallen apart communities cannot be entrusted to one movement, it has to be bilateral, multilateral cooperation from all levels, starting from leadership, However in reality that may not be the case.

In my short span of maturing I have seen Bohra community going through many changes, good and bad, point worth noting is, As a commuity we are becoming closed and narrowing on excessive glorification day in and out ! I have come across alarming thought flows from youngsters about other communities, faiths and cultures.

There are levels / grades created amongst our community too such as:

Tangible : Sheikhs, Mullahs, NKD, MKD, commoners could be few more, reserving special privileges and rights or none !

Intangible : Bearded Vs Non bearded, Employed Vs Businessman, Involved Vs Irregular, Traditional Vs Modern

In one of the post, One learned member mentioned that – “true reform is within ourselves”, During my interactions with fellow commoners from the community 8 out 10 are reform minded or against the authoritarian treatment of our leadership. Most of them acknowledges certain wrongdoings, but helplessly justifies with spiritual understanding.

Unification of community is completed when one wakes up from deep slumber of superstition and ego. Forget communities, lets unite in our own hearts. There is a famous saying : Jo Jaage … Uska Savera !!

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#8

Unread post by profastian » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:12 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Hi guys Anyone with ideas and comments if there is opportunity to reunite the three Bohra faction for a united culture and ancestry ?

I mean Dawoodi, Suleimani, Alawi open channels of sharing venues, interaction and social events where they agree and there is no conflict.

I note on YouTube Alawi are so close to us and they have less human worship than Abdes, they look, sound and speak so similar, we are Shias , and there is more in common than difference. I am encouraged by their transparency and courage to make their sermons public.

I think Mr Ali Asger engineer , progs in India has the credibility to start this long process of unification and if successful even after 40 years it is worth the legacy for the future generation. It is so easy to divide but unite is much harder and worth the challenge.

It is worth setting shared centers in overseas , allow intermarriage, etc.
Just shows how ignorant the proggies are about bohraism...

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#9

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:44 am

Prof what ignorance , if it had come out of your zadas mouth you would have thought it is the greatest words of the century ! Can you contribute to any topic sensibly

What about your own Diai trying to claim he is trying to unite with the Udaipuris, I am suggesting with also other Bohras. Was he ignorant then ?

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#10

Unread post by profastian » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:53 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Prof what ignorance , if it had come out of your zadas mouth you would have thought it is the greatest words of the century ! Can you contribute to any topic sensibly

What about your own Diai trying to claim he is trying to unite with the Udaipuris, I am suggesting with also other Bohras. Was he ignorant then ?
There is a difference between Udaipuris and Alawis. The Alawis do not consider the Syedna as the rightful DAI, hence there is no question of unification with them.

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: Reunification of Greater Bohra Cultural Community

#11

Unread post by stranger » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:48 am

ozmujaheed wrote:Hi guys Anyone with ideas and comments if there is opportunity to reunite the three Bohra faction for a united culture and ancestry ?
I mean Dawoodi, Suleimani, Alawi open channels of sharing venues, interaction and social events where they agree and there is no conflict.
we have social interaction. People from alavi sect are allowed to attend dawoodi bohras personal functions like marriage, Jamans and vice versa. I doubt if they will prefer or either we will prefer to attend their religious events unless we don't have any option. Like alavibohras who are residing out of India and remote cities of india are coming to attend D.bohra majlises and Waa'z, but coz they dont have their own mosque and markaz there.
Now if we think of praying together then there will be issue on who will going to lead if different sect are going to pray together ( Sulemani/dawoodi/alavi) and then there has to be conflict in that case ? Like wise for other events.
Sharing of venue is possible but alavis are hardly 20,000 and possibly there is more or less the same number for Sulemanis in India.
I note on YouTube Alawi are so close to us and they have less human worship than Abdes, they look, sound and speak so similar, we are Shias , and there is more in common than difference. I am encouraged by their transparency and courage to make their sermons public.
Each and Everything is exactly same. The Waa'z, Majlises, Washeq Namaz, Dressing, Language and religious ceremonies as well. The only difference is succession of 29th Da'i and leadership hence. They believes that their 29th Dai ( Ali bin Ibrahim ) was rightfully appointed Da'i but his rights to succession was oppressed by our 29th Da'i ( Syedna Abdul Taiyyeb Zakiyuddin) in order to acquire the power and takht of Dai. We believes that our 29th Da'i was rightfully appointed Da'i but their 29th Da'i turned Rafji in the greed of Power and money and hence challenged his truthful leadership, resulting in creation of a new sect on his name, Alavi bohra. ( derived from 'Ali' )

I think Mr Ali Asger engineer , progs in India has the credibility to start this long process of unification and if successful even after 40 years it is worth the legacy for the future generation. It is so easy to divide but unite is much harder and worth the challenge.
I don't think so that the Agenda of Ali Asgar Engineer is the unification of various bohra sects. Rather he is known for opposing the authoritarian functioning of Kothar and imposing the transparency in accountability matters and etc.
His campaign is limited to Dawoodi bohras only.