Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

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humanbeing
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Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#1

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:41 am

Dear Readers

Income : Wajebaat, Khumus, Sabeel, Silatul Imam, Sila & Fitra, Najwa, Ikram, Haqqun nafs, Tehniyat, Nazrul Makam, Hoob (Ramadan, Muharram, Religious constructions, Philantrophy initiatives, Voluntary donations etc), Laagat (Misaak, Nikaah, Mayyat, ZIyarat), Raza Salaam, Gullak donations, Darees Najwa, Majalis Najwa, Jaman / Niyaz Salaam, Arzi Salam, Niyaaz-e-hussain vouchers.

Expenses : Local Jamat administration, Dargah / Roza / Zari administration and development, Local Amil’s wazeefas, Other administration staff salaries, Religious Constructions.

Observation / Opinion :

Local Jamat Administration : Cost of running the affairs are met by Sabeel contributions. Use of Jumatkhana / Markaz are charged accordingly for various personal functions.

Dargah / Roza / Zari administration and development : Initial investment of developing magnificent dargahs with exquisite resorts around it is higher, however Construction / development cost are varyingly raised / recovered from common bohra mumins under “Sawaab Ma Shaamil” philosophy. Also costs are covered over a short period of time by influx of ziyareens as accommodation is charged, generous hoob donations, gullak donations.

Appointed Amil’s Income : Apart from wazeefa from The Kothar, An Amil enjoy’s free accommodation, transport and other civic facilities. Side income includes various Salams !! To approach Amil Saheb of the area means Handshake with a decent amount !! An empty handshake is bad manners.

Religious / Philanthropy Constructions: Such as Masjids, Markaz, Schools, Musafirkhana, Hospitals, etc are co-funded or completely sponsored by Bohra Mumins in majority of cases.

Trade Monopoly : Religious Tourism is well established and controlled by Kothar to its personal and other publicly religious landmarks. Common Bohra mumins are at the mercy of bohra travel agents for fair and transparent costing of the tour (I have heard stories of unfair charges generally and personally).

Please note, above write up is summary of my experience and knowledge with regards to taxes in the community. The Taxes mentioned here varies from compulsion to voluntary depending on the respective jamat and amil’s attitude. Kindly correct me if I m wrong in my opinion, terminology or understanding.
Last edited by humanbeing on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ala maqaam
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#2

Unread post by Ala maqaam » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:47 am

very well written....

apart from ZAKAAT islaam has not imposed any other taxes...but men have imposed so many self taxation.

Ala maqaam
Posts: 318
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#3

Unread post by Ala maqaam » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:54 am

sadaqa and donation for construction of mosque is not that bad,only thing which hurts me is salaam to amil for every small thing,he already gets enough salary from dawat then why to pay some more,yeah but some body wants to give it voluntary it is okay.

humanbeing
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#4

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:59 am

Hi AM

Sadaqa is an act of personal donation to the needy, many bohra mumins give sadaqa in form of rice, wheat, flour, with some cash to the needy. As far as I know Its done voluntarily and personally and no raza is required. It’s a independent act encouraged.

Hoob for masjid constructions, are acceptable, however in my opinion, Usually total funding exceeds the cost of masjid constructions, more inflow of money causes corruption in the system. There is no display of authentic accounting records of expenses. We just get to know the cost from general gossip.

Suggestion :

Authentic Accounting statement can be presented with the onset of inception of planning for Masjid. This would help generate enough funds required to complete the project. Also if there is a deficit in the budget, Kothar or many rich and generous bohra mumin can come forward to help. Amount of deficit is known thus helping to raise required amount of funds sooner.

Income and expense statement can be posted every month end at the community hall or jamat administration office. Relevant information related to constructions can be displayed at the site such as : Name of Contractors, Time line to finish, Graphical Model of the Masjid, Name of Main beneficiaries, donors (if any) and if wished to display.

think
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#5

Unread post by think » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:59 pm

this is the bone of contention between the thinkers and the blind believers. ACCOUNTABILITY. In any town usa funds were collected for a mosque about three times. Mosque is not built. The money part ; you cannot follow the dollar. "KHAIR NA KAM MA VAPRAI GAYA" is the answer given by the committee that keep forcibly asking for more and more money. Fancy pictures of mosque are shown to the mumineen to empty their pockets but have not the slightest clue about construction costs.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#6

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:12 pm

Megalomania has set-in in our religion :

The dictionary defines megalomania as a delusional feelings of superiority, feelings of power, omnipotence, and arrogance. Fortunately the top echelons of our religion are free from this disease i.e., The Imam (SA) and the Dai (TUS). But if you look around at anyone under the rank of Dai you see the effects of this megalomania, the qasr e aali, the kothar, the Amils, have become severly affected with this ailment which causes arrogance, domineering behavior, demands that are way beyond their status in life, constant demands for money for every occasion whether it is called for or not, stooping as low as to collect from little madrassa children wajibaat and also asking them to contribute for niyaz and other assorted schemes dreamed up by them and collecting najwa from the whole jamaat for the Dai when only silatul Imam is due. This is done in order to support their lavish life styles, and other finer things in life which they don’t want to spend their own money on, their own money is a misnomer here as they have not worked a day out in the world but always depended on community hand outs. Dealing with public funds they become very heartless and want the best as there is no one to account to. If anyone dares to ask for any kind of accounting he immediately faces their doubts about his iman and ikhlaas and may even face a social boycott announcement by them that will isolate him not only from all jamaat people and events but also from his immediate family until he apologizes for questioning their freedom and right to spend public money without impunity. They have created so many organizations within one umbarella organization called an Anjuman and everyone is encouraged and coerced to belong to each and everyone of these subs. Then when the fund raising starts you are asked to contribute to each sub organization as well as the main, this only to increase their collection without looking obviously greedy. Of course all organizations need money to function and sustains its activities but the constant cropping up of various schemes to collect, all wrapped up in religious terms is kind of sleazy to grab people’s hard-earned money while making themselves look holy.
Imam Husain’s valiant fight in karbala and sacrifice of his family members and other devoted followers is also not left alone from making money. A hefty price (called Najwa for Dai) is negotiated (in last Colombo Ashra it was Rs.40 crore) for 10 days of Dai’s appearance and bayans, then there are najwas for all his sons and daughters and brothers and their family members. This is all in addition to money made selling titles of Hadiyat ($52-72,000), Mafsoohiyat ($ 5-11,000) and other titles like NKD, MKD etc etc, then another venue for making big money is the ziyafats ( anywhere between $52-100,000) and these are arranged every night of the week. Outwardly we are told to do a lot of grief, crying and matam for Imam Husain’s and his family’s bloodshed during the 10 day of the Ashara while they are minting money to live the life of luxury such that the kings and queens of England have not lived.

Conscíous
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#7

Unread post by Conscíous » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:56 pm

Kaka Akela,
Very good post, but there is one thing I didn't understand and if you would be kind enough to clear it.. All the above you have mentioned has happened under the watch and literally, right in front of our Dai, Syedna burhanuddin Saheb, and your saying, he hasn't taken part in it??

humanbeing
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#8

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:16 am

Hi KA

“collecting najwa from the whole jamaat for the Dai when only silatul Imam is due.”

Can you educate me on concept of Silatul Imam, what I have read or learnt from various sources is that, Silatul Imam is a right (Haq) of Imam-in-Hiding. That’s it, I don’t have any knowledge beyond this. Please tell me various aspects related to this contribution.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#9

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:29 am

you guys are all complaining needlessly and unfairly.

syedna and his family have every right to live in luxury, buy over 100 palaces and upwards of 3000+ residential and commercial properties and industries etc all over the world. they have every right to fly 1st class or charter entire flights, to have gold fittings in their homes and dine on the finest food and have an army of servants waiting on them hand and foot.

do you know why? because syedna and his family are doing a very sacred duty, reminding his abdes 24/7 about kerbala and making them do purjosh maatam and cry over their shahadat. who else would do this? lamenting, crying, lecturing, travelling all over the world to talk about kerbala, collecting funds for hussain and zarih of fatema etc?

it is hussain's khushi that he rewards syedna and his illustrious family for their efforts in keeping alive the memory of his suffering and eventual shahadat at the hands of the rascal yazeed, who lived in luxury, dined on the finest foods and had an army of servants waiting on him hand and foot.

how can you grudge the syedna and his bechara family these few taxes and luxuries when they do so much for hussain and the shohodas??

humanbeing
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#10

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:02 am

Dear Zulfikar

I have been reading your responses to various post, you are an aggressive and vindictive writer with exceptional vocabulary and sense of humor. Your post has made me smile and chuckle. However some posts have been really derogatory towards certain issues (don’t wanna dig long list of reference from the previous posts) Hope you acknowledge.

What is the matter, friend ! Why are you so vengeful and so much full of hatred towards Bohra community and its leadership. I don’t intend to argue on various issues which are affecting the community, they are discussed thread-bare in many topics posted here. If I can ask ! what is your story against Kothar or Community ?
I hope this query does not unleash spats of humorous insults on me. Im enquiring out of inquisitiveness. I m not a Kothar Spy.

porus
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#11

Unread post by porus » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:59 pm

humanbeing wrote: Can you educate me on concept of Silatul Imam, what I have read or learnt from various sources is that, Silatul Imam is a right (Haq) of Imam-in-Hiding.
This is an interesting question. A sabak-going abde should be able to answer but I think we will wait forever for that for 2 reasons:

1. An intelligent abde will know but will not say anything because of his oath of secrecy.
2. An un-intelligent abde, like Insecticide, will not know even if he/she hears it hundred times in sabak.

I do not believe that there is anything in the Quran for zakat ul-fitra or silat ul-imam.

However, it has been reliably reported, in connection with 87:14 and 87:15, that Prophet used to offer sadaqa before the end of Ramadan. This has been called zakat al-fitr. Muslims believe that their prayers, especially in the month of Ramadan, will be accepted because this sadaqa 'purifies' their wealth and intentions. This zakat is in addition to that calculated (40% and other estimates). Because Prophet offered it in relation to Quran, it is considered fard.

Silat ul-Imam is traced to a saying of Imam Baqir. He said, and I am paraphrasing, that"if a whole year passes and a portion of the wealth of a person does not reach him (لم يصلنا, 'lam yasalna'), then Allah will not look at him on the Day of Judgement."

From the verb 'yasalna' is derived the noun 'sila' (صلة) which means a 'gift' or 'connection'. Combining these two meanings may mean that it is the gift to Imam emphasizing the giver's religious connection to the Imam.

For Bohras, the amount of both these taxes are specified by the Dai and varies yearly.

These taxes must be paid to the Dai who, according to Bohra beliefs, is the only one authorized by Allah to accept all your zakaat, sadaqaat and any other religious offerings.

Can an abde throw more light on this issue? :wink:

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#12

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:06 pm

porus wrote:Can an abde throw more light on this issue?
They will CONFUSE the issue. :wink:

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#13

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:47 pm

humanbeing,

thanks for your compliments.

i dont know why you think that i am being vindictive or derogatory. if speaking out against injustice, exploitation and tyranny is being vindictive and calling a spade a spade in no uncertain terms is derogatory, then so be it. i absolutely hate it when a so-called religious and spiritual leader loots his subjects and on top of it calls them slaves, deceives them and manipulates their faith, beliefs and deen by misquoting from scriptures and religious texts by creating falsehoods and outright lies, casting insults on islam and the panjatan paak.

for various reasons i will not and cannot reveal my 'story', as that would only provide fodder to the abde apologists on this forum. for those around on this forum, they have a pretty good inkling of who and what i am, what 'makes me tick', as they say. as for the 'aggression' as you term it, see where being non-aggressive has landed the bohras. overall, they complain, whine and bicker in private, but have no guts to confront the hired (amil) goondas of the kothar in public. they curse, abuse and utter expletives, but after some feeble negotiations, cough up the moneys demanded of them with some minor reductions. this, to their cowardly personalities, seems like a major victory, when its a pyrrhic victory, illusory at best.

i do not hate the victims, but the crimes and the criminals who commit them in the name of religion. and i hate those even more, who come here to defend those criminals and become their advocates.

SBM
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#14

Unread post by SBM » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:16 pm

AZ
see where being non-aggressive has landed the bohras. overall, they complain, whine and bicker in private, but have no guts to confront the hired (amil) goondas of the kothar in public. they curse, abuse and utter expletives, but after some feeble negotiations, cough up the moneys demanded of them with some minor reductions
Very well said and has lot of truth to it.

profastian
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#15

Unread post by profastian » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:37 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:humanbeing,

thanks for your compliments.

i dont know why you think that i am being vindictive or derogatory. if speaking out against injustice, exploitation and tyranny is being vindictive and calling a spade a spade in no uncertain terms is derogatory, then so be it. i absolutely hate it when a so-called religious and spiritual leader loots his subjects and on top of it calls them slaves, deceives them and manipulates their faith, beliefs and deen by misquoting from scriptures and religious texts by creating falsehoods and outright lies, casting insults on islam and the panjatan paak.

for various reasons i will not and cannot reveal my 'story', as that would only provide fodder to the abde apologists on this forum. for those around on this forum, they have a pretty good inkling of who and what i am, what 'makes me tick', as they say. as for the 'aggression' as you term it, see where being non-aggressive has landed the bohras. overall, they complain, whine and bicker in private, but have no guts to confront the hired (amil) goondas of the kothar in public. they curse, abuse and utter expletives, but after some feeble negotiations, cough up the moneys demanded of them with some minor reductions. this, to their cowardly personalities, seems like a major victory, when its a pyrrhic victory, illusory at best.

i do not hate the victims, but the crimes and the criminals who commit them in the name of religion. and i hate those even more, who come here to defend those criminals and become their advocates.
8 Likes for this drivel. Interesting... Quite a following you have gathered AZ. Vying for the DAIhood for the desolate proggies, are you ???

humanbeing
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#16

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:18 am

Dear Porus

Thanks a Million ! I appreciate your answer. And Thanks once again for educating about Silatul Fitra also. The intention is noble if it reaches right hands.

With regards to Knowledge in Sabak with such payments :

When someone asks authenticity of this payments, these questions are tactfully answered, assessing the intention of the answer seeker. Response are loaded with Melodramatic, Emotional, Spiritual, Religious, Traditional Justifications, with underlying threat of being doomed to hellfire or revenge by Allah in the worldly journey if this rightful obligatory payments are not made (Astagfirullah, This are not my words, but conveyed in Wajebat Bayans).

When Authenticity or Accounts of any payments are requested out of good faith, answer seeker is deemed as rebellion. Destroying his question’s credibility.

humanbeing
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#17

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:55 am

Dear Zulfikar

Thanks for your response, however it would have been informative to known your story. I think, identities are confidential on this forum, we all are strangers, sharing our thoughts freely. However there is no pressure, you are owner of your will 

humanbeing
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#18

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:13 am

Dear Profastian

Can you educate me on list of obligatory payments I mentioned in my thread. I will repeat the list for your quick reference :

Wajebaat (basis of calculation ?, Percentage ?)
Khumus (Applicability ? )
Ikram ( What is it ?)
Haqqun Nafs (Applicability & Logic ? )
Tehniyat (Necessity ?)
Nazrul Makaam (Usability & Logic ?)
Laagat (Misaak, Nikaah, Mayyat, Ziyarat) (Usability & Logic ?)
Various Salaams (Necessity ?)

Please educate me on questions in the bracket. I appreciate your response in advance.

seeker110
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#19

Unread post by seeker110 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:54 am

Only if you can find a rich family to give it all.

stranger
Posts: 517
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#20

Unread post by stranger » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:24 am

AZ
see where being non-aggressive has landed the bohras. overall, they complain, whine and bicker in private, but have no guts to confront the hired (amil) goondas of the kothar in public. they curse, abuse and utter expletives, but after some feeble negotiations, cough up the moneys demanded of them with some minor reductions
AZ,
Do you have the guts to confront Amil/kothar and share what you thinks & usually speak about them in private ?

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#21

Unread post by profastian » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:44 am

humanbeing wrote:Dear Profastian

Can you educate me on list of obligatory payments I mentioned in my thread. I will repeat the list for your quick reference :

Wajebaat (basis of calculation ?, Percentage ?)Sum total of all below
Khumus (Applicability ? )20% gross earnings. Applicability all
Ikram ( What is it ?) Salam to the bhai sahab who came in ramazan. Again no compulsion. They give envelopes but no one is forced to pay..
Haqqun Nafs (Applicability & Logic ? ) According to Shariat -e-Mohammad.
Tehniyat (Necessity ?) No, i am never forced to pay tehniyat.
Nazrul Makaam (Usability & Logic ?) Again no compulsion, Given to the Imam(DAI), usability according to his wishes. Logic is similar to a mannat.
Laagat (Misaak, Nikaah, Mayyat, Ziyarat) (Usability & Logic ?) For nikah and misaq it covers the gifts which are given to the bride and groom, which are very lavish especially in rasm-e-saify. All these are at the level of the local jamaat(to cover its expenses) and not a penny goes to the kothar or the DAI. Whether one is forced for these or not, varies from jamaat to jamaat.
Various Salaams (Necessity ?) Nope, again no compulsion.. When are we force for these?

Please educate me on questions in the bracket. I appreciate your response in advance.
P.S. I am no expert and above answers are according to my understanding..

humanbeing
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#22

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:45 am

Dear Profastian

“Wajebaat (basis of calculation ?, Percentage ?)Sum total of all below”

According to my knowledge, Wajebaat is primarily; Zakat (2.5 % of net wealth) + Khumus (20% of Abnormal Profit; Capital gains, Lottery, Financial Gift etc) + Any amount increase as per Amil’s / Shehzada / Bhai Saheb’s fancy.

“Ikram ( What is it ?) Salam to the bhai sahab who came in ramazan. Again no compulsion. They give envelopes but no one is forced to pay..”

Yes ! that is what I also have learnt, however amount demanded is usually high and it is eventually or indirectly paid from Mumin’s pocket. (However it’s a negotiable amount depending on the character of the amil. Also Appointed Amils get Wazeefa for thier services, apart from that Appointed amil gets Salaams over Washek, Lailatul Qadr and Eid. Other civic facilities provided free of cost.

“Haqqun Nafs (Applicability & Logic ? ) According to Shariat -e-Mohammad.”

Please elaborate regarding this concept and practice.

“Tehniyat (Necessity ?) No, i am never forced to pay tehniyat. “

I agree ! It’s a voluntary greeting amount ! But why does any expression of Walayaa / Mohabbat / Affection has to be in cash ??

“Nazrul Makaam (Usability & Logic ?) Again no compulsion, Given to the Imam(DAI), usability according to his wishes. Logic is similar to a mannat.”

Agreed ! but how does this concept find value in Islam ? By keeping aside some money, we bribe Allah to get our work done ?? and if work done or not, we handover the accumulated money to Dai to be spent in “Khair na Kaam”. Isnt this some kind of placebo affect; attaching religious faith with material offerings.

“Laagat (Misaak, Nikaah, Mayyat, Ziyarat) (Usability & Logic ?) For nikah and misaq it covers the gifts which are given to the bride and groom, which are very lavish especially in rasm-e-saify. All these are at the level of the local jamaat(to cover its expenses) and not a penny goes to the kothar or the DAI. Whether one is forced for these or not, varies from jamaat to jamaat.”

Misaak : I have not received my gift of Misaak from amil sahaab !! Infact he took salam and laagat from my family for my Misaak, !!
Nikaah : Amount taken in Rasm-e- Saifee for Nikaah is acceptable as its for the services of the Jamaat in organizing the event. Mashallah they are done well in my experience. However when a person organize personal Nikaah, Laagat is applied and amount is pretty well negotiated, and no gifts from jamaat to bride or groom !! infact the centre of attraction is our Amil or Nikah padnaar !!
Mayyat : Please justify laagat for Mayyat event.
Ziyarat : Apart from all other expense paid, there is Laagat added to the bill (For example, my mom was charged INR 2000 per person over and above all expenses, when questioned it was termed as Laagat)

“Various Salaams (Necessity ?) Nope, again no compulsion.. When are we force for these?”

List of events for need of salam is big, infact any interaction with Amil saheb requires salaam, it’s a token of greeting which has to be monetory. For Example : A devoted khidmatguzaar boy once told me, he was invited for Shukrana Majlis after Ramadan presided by Amil Saheb, this Khidmatguzaar boy did salaam to Amil Saheb empty handed, he was called aside by the personal assistant of Amil Saheb and told politely that he must do Salaam with money cover only, else shudnt have joined the line. This boy was so embarrassed.

Various voluntary payment schemes are generated by Local jamat or Kothar, who gives them Raza ?? When complaints of any arbitary schemes reaches kothar, there is no response or whistleblower is taken to task for complaining.

Dear Profastian, I seek your POV on matters expressed here.

Smart
Posts: 1388
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#23

Unread post by Smart » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:22 pm

stranger wrote:
AZ
see where being non-aggressive has landed the bohras. overall, they complain, whine and bicker in private, but have no guts to confront the hired (amil) goondas of the kothar in public. they curse, abuse and utter expletives, but after some feeble negotiations, cough up the moneys demanded of them with some minor reductions
AZ,
Do you have the guts to confront Amil/kothar and share what you thinks & usually speak about them in private ?
Don't know about AZ, but I have told off the Aamil in the presence of a few hundred persons, when he tried to harass me in my Mother's funeral. Like all abdes he backed out with his tail between his legs. Not everybody, (especially those who are not abdes) are cowards.
It is cowards who under fear, rush in to defend their tormentors. Grow some spine. Don't judge others by your pathetic standards.

stranger
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 am

Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#24

Unread post by stranger » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:01 am

Smart wrote: Don't know about AZ, but I have told off the Aamil in the presence of a few hundred persons, when he tried to harass me in my Mother's funeral. Like all abdes he backed out with his tail between his legs. Not everybody, (especially those who are not abdes) are cowards.
It is cowards who under fear, rush in to defend their tormentors. Grow some spine. Don't judge others by your pathetic standards.
OverSmart,
Try to Practice what you have just written.

Az,
My question still stands for you >>
AZ,
see where being non-aggressive has landed the bohras. overall, they complain, whine and bicker in private, but have no guts to confront the hired (amil) goondas of the kothar in public. they curse, abuse and utter expletives, but after some feeble negotiations, cough up the moneys demanded of them with some minor reductions
Do you have the guts to confront Amil/kothar and share what you thinks & usually speak about them in private ?

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#25

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:56 am

stranger wrote: Az,
My question still stands for you Do you have the guts to confront Amil/kothar
stranger, dont u recall when you were amil of alibaug and i had scolded you for your rough language and intimidating behaviour with a poor local widow who had come to attend the nikah jaman of the son of a friend of mine? I had given you a severe tongue lashing in front of many jamaat members and your chamchas around you.

want me to reveal more about you, you sordid little weasel? if you have the guts, let us go together to saifee mahal and i will haul you by the scruff of your neck in front of the mansoos and expose your misdeeds.

stranger
Posts: 517
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Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#26

Unread post by stranger » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:36 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
stranger wrote: Az,
My question still stands for you Do you have the guts to confront Amil/kothar
stranger, dont u recall when you were amil of alibaug and i had scolded you for your rough language and intimidating behaviour with a poor local widow who had come to attend the nikah jaman of the son of a friend of mine? I had given you a severe tongue lashing in front of many jamaat members and your chamchas around you.

want me to reveal more about you, you sordid little weasel? if you have the guts, let us go together to saifee mahal and i will haul you by the scruff of your neck in front of the mansoos and expose your misdeeds.
AZ,
So its evident that Ultimately you can't. Nothing surprising as i can guess the reason and understands that too.
But what irritates me when you say bohra are cowards because truth is that on the similar standard you're NO different from them & you knew it well. Suppose Someday, When you'll rise from this position and will join the likes of Mr. Insaf and Asgar Ali Engineer, Certainly ur comment will not bother me. Till then You're NO DIFFERENT.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Born Free ! Taxed to Death !!!

#27

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:40 am

stranger,

like a typical coward, you posted a reply which skirted the issue and wrote gibberish.

you wanted to know if i have ever confronted an amil or zaada or a jamaat committee member and i showed you the best example when i confronted you when you were amil of alibaug. now what more proof do you want?

i can write about a dozen instances when i have faced tyrannical amils and made them back down, but since you dont know me from alibhai tyrewala, it would be all up in the air. instead i gave you the concrete example of alibaug. by remaining silent on this point, you admit most shamefacedly, that you were the amil there and that i had scolded you publicly.

dont ask how i know your background and your misdeeds. publicly admit here that you were the amil in alibaug whom i had taught a severe lesson.