Progressive matam

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
sufisaint
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:24 am

Progressive matam

#1

Unread post by sufisaint » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:02 am

Bismillah....

while surfing on youtube found this videos,worth to share..... :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9klgPUm4 ... re=related

sufisaint
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:24 am

Re: Progressive matam

#2

Unread post by sufisaint » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:03 am

none of 4 looks like shiyate Ali

sufisaint
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:24 am

Re: Progressive matam

#3

Unread post by sufisaint » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:04 am

btw where did they learn this style of mataam?

normally hindu lady beats them self with both hands when there husbands dies.

no Shia does matam in this way.

sufisaint
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:24 am

Re: Progressive matam

#4

Unread post by sufisaint » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:08 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moHjGqxl ... re=related

who is the waezin?

and what qualification he posses? may be some udaipuri tell us,who is he?

and what material is he reading? and why is he reading from book?

why progressive accuse syedna for reading from a book?

truebohra
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#5

Unread post by truebohra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:59 am


sufisaint
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:24 am

Re: Progressive matam

#6

Unread post by sufisaint » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:22 am

plain hypocricy :roll:

guy_sam2005
Posts: 819
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:46 am

Re: Progressive matam

#7

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:51 am

After seein the videos i truly understand why so much hatred towards us..........................
Hope atleast the next generation realise their mistake and give misaaq to dai........................

Humsafar
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#8

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:24 am

sufisaint wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moHjGqxl ... re=related

who is the waezin?

and what qualification he posses? may be some udaipuri tell us,who is he?

and what material is he reading? and why is he reading from book?

why progressive accuse syedna for reading from a book?
He is Mehdi Hasan from Malegaon, a professor and a very learned person. I don't know what book he is reading from but obviously he is reading a text for reference, which is normal. He is not reading a written speech.
This "style of matam" is called free-style, freedom-from-slavery matam. This style comes naturally to people who do not bow their heads to another human being.
And please explain what Shiyte Ali are supposed to look like.
mustafanalwalla wrote:Believe me, i hate what i have posted above, because i believe in living and let living, but i had to do it to prove a point, that just by calling yourself reformists does not mean that you are any better or worse than we are,
mn, please understand that reformists are "better" than abdes only in that they have seen through the shenanigans of the mafia clergy and are actually living out the principles they believe in. In every other aspects - as human beings and as followers of Bohra customs and practices - they are no different from abdes. In any human gathering where people have to sit through long periods of time they tend to display similar behaviour. The ridiculousness of abdes is more apparent because they are forced to look and behave the same way, go throght the motions, and are eager to play the part as they are being judged all the time by their peers and superiors. AZ, if I can speak for him, is not lampooning their piety but their herd behaviour.

seeker110
Posts: 1727
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#9

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:43 pm

I have seen people of Iraq do matam in that style. It really shouldnt become a topic.So you guys want to share some ilm you got from your madhe filled majlis.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#10

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:53 pm

well well well....

this gets really interesting.

i impartially went through the entire video and could not find a single act which could provide any justification to the army of syedna slaves on this forum. the fanatic abdes criticising the people shown in the video for doing maatam with both hands? talk of gall, impudence and shamelessness.!

do you see an army of robotrons banging themselves in unison while dressed in regimented uniforms? do you see long bearded pretenders with fancy titles shedding crocodile tears whilst sitting on specially reserved white sujnis? do you see a vaezeen sitting high up on a takht looking down upon his flock of bleating rams? do you see anyone with fear on their faces? all i see are people free to dress, behave and act freely without being forced to conform like the abdes being led to slaughter.

as for mn, he will never, but never understand what i and many like me are trying to argue about muharram. that it should be more, much more than just the superficial observance of frantic maatam as a ritual, followed by labrez jaman and then after a few good belches and chats with friends, go home feeling good at having participated in a meaningless ritual and assuaged one's guilt. for someone of mn's level to even understand what we are trying to get at is beyond his puny mental capacity, conditioned as he is since birth and bludgeoned into stupidity by his peers and elders.

all that abdes like him can do is daydream about syedna, get orgasmic urges and wet dreams.

truebohra
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#11

Unread post by truebohra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:51 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:well well well....

do you see an army of robotrons banging themselves in unison while dressed in regimented uniforms? do you see long bearded pretenders with fancy titles shedding crocodile tears whilst sitting on specially reserved white sujnis? do you see a vaezeen sitting high up on a takht looking down upon his flock of bleating rams? do you see anyone with fear on their faces? all i see are people free to dress, behave and act freely without being forced to conform like the abdes being led to slaughter.
Regarding freedom of Choice...
You have a choice to follow farman of Dai allah or not. We chose to follow the farman. iblis had choice of sajda to Adam or not & choose not to follow & became Satam from an Angel., Rasool allah (SAW) brought farman of Islam Abu-Jahl chose not to follow it & became munafiqeen. Your Forefathers chose to follow Sayedna Abuttayed Zakiuddin & and followers Ali bin Ibrahim becme Alavis. Your not better than Alavis who can give you all reason to follow their view point.? Remember in Religion there is no compulsion. You become what u chose. We chose to follow 46th Dai & after and are Dawoodi Bohras. You chose not to follow. You can call yourself Progressive.

REMEMBER IN RELIGION YOU HAVE ONLY TWO CHOICE EITHER TO FOLLOW OR NOT TO FOLLOW. THIS IS FACT AND YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT.

seeker110
Posts: 1727
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#12

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:05 pm

Freedom of choice as explained by a dictators chella

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#13

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:18 pm

truebohra wrote:
You have a choice to follow farman of Dai allah or not.

Remember in Religion there is no compulsion.
here is a prime example of a self-destructing abde's logic being blasted to smithereens..

truebohra
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#14

Unread post by truebohra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:26 pm

seeker110 wrote:Freedom of choice as explained by a dictators chella
Can you refute my statements instead of name calling.

truebohra
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#15

Unread post by truebohra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:29 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
truebohra wrote:
You have a choice to follow farman of Dai allah or not.

Remember in Religion there is no compulsion.
here is a prime example of a self-destructing abde's logic being blasted to smithereens..
Dont Pick up fragments of statement & distort the message..
here is the complete message "Remember in Religion there is no compulsion. You become what u chose. We chose to follow 46th Dai & after and are Dawoodi Bohras. You chose not to follow. You can call yourself Progressive"

Yes, there is a choice. If there wouldn't then you would not be Progressive.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#16

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:00 pm

TB,

if syedna chooses not to follow the quran and seerat e nabi does that make him a non-bohra and non muslim?

truebohra
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#17

Unread post by truebohra » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:08 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:TB,

if syedna chooses not to follow the quran and seerat e nabi does that make him a non-bohra and non muslim?
Who are you to decide that sayedna doesnt follow Quran & Seerat a nabi?
The Aqgument is, Do you follow Sayedna (tus) or not? if not then why do you want to call yourself dawoodi bohra? Alavis made a choice & are Alavis. So you have choice you can become Progressives. We dont mind.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#18

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:26 pm

truebohra wrote:
Who are you to decide that sayedna doesnt follow Quran & Seerat a nabi?

...We dont mind.
TB,

I am nobody, but Allah has already given his decision in the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad has demonstrated it most unambigously with his practical behaviour and impeccable life based on the Quran throughout his brief earthly existence. Do the syedna's actions and his life even remotely match it? Do you read and understand the quran or you depend on some self-confessed charlatan to translate it for you? if you did, you would not be asking such stupid questions.

yes, of course religious frauds and tricksters like you would love to be left alone .. and you wouldnt mind at all! but thats not happening pal, not unless you confess and your masters confess that they are burhanvis, a religious sect which is its own religion, nothing to do with islam or the pristine dawoodi bohra faith it has usurped.

we will not mind you guys then...

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Progressive matam

#19

Unread post by profastian » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:38 pm

truebohra wrote:
Al Zulfiqar wrote:TB,

if syedna chooses not to follow the quran and seerat e nabi does that make him a non-bohra and non muslim?
Who are you to decide that sayedna doesnt follow Quran & Seerat a nabi?
The Aqgument is, Do you follow Sayedna (tus) or not? if not then why do you want to call yourself dawoodi bohra? Alavis made a choice & are Alavis. So you have choice you can become Progressives. We dont mind.
Of course he doesnt follow Syedna. Look at his hatred for Syedna Taher Saifuddin on "Remembering Syedna Taher Saifuddin" thread. Hence, he is not a dawoodi bohra. He can call himself a bohra, and he can be a bohra amongst his 200 or so progressive brothers, but to the wider bohra community he is not. By definition he is not. He and his cronies are so desperate of being called bohras, they are trying to change the definition of "Dawoodi Bohras" itself to suit their CVs. They accuse us of promoting hatred. Look at the hatred they have for the duats. Whenever we write something in the shaan of the duats, they squirm like lab monkeys during a science experiment and come up with their nonsensical tirades of corruption and oppression. They are people whose minds have been addled by the likes of engineer and co. and they have been led to believe that we are somehow forced in our faith and belief. They failed to recognize that they and their 200 something cronies are the ones who are delusional and have been conditioned by engineer and co. What would you call a person who tells you that you are forced and oppressed when you know that you are not. They are nothing more than meddlers and maniacs. They say do not wear a uniform because they are against uniformity. Why should not we wear a uniform. We are completely happy with uniformity. Who are they to tell you what we should and what we should not wear. Are they any different from the kothar? They tell us do not pay wajebats. Who are they to tell us what we should do with our money? who are they to tell us they we should demand proper auditing? It is our money and we are happy to pay the wajebats. In fact, people are clamoring to pay wajebats. Have any of you been forced to pay? They think themselves as great activists who are on a mission to free oppressed people. But they foolishly or conveniently forget the point that people are not oppressed? And how can people tell whether they are oppressed or not? The answer is simple, when a person believes he is oppressed then he is otherwise he is not. A person himself is the best judge of whether he is oppressed or not. Who are they to tell us we are oppressed. Do these smart asses think they know more about what is good for us than ourselves. This is nothing more than meddling in the affairs of the others. They say do not do sajda. We say that it is only taqbeela tul ard. First of all who are they to tell us what to do and what not to do. Have we forced you guys to perform sadja. Even if we worship the dais(which we donot), it is none of their business. They say that you are not muslims because you perform sajda to a human being. We say that it is not the same sajda as the sajda to Allah, it is kissing of the earth.This should be the end of the story. We believe in Allah, We believe in Rasool, That is it. We are muslims and believe that every person who believes in Allah and rasool is a muslim.

The thing is that even if the bohras needed reform, reform is none of their business. Reform is from within and not from outside and they certainly are outsiders...

truebohra
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#20

Unread post by truebohra » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:43 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
truebohra wrote:
Who are you to decide that sayedna doesnt follow Quran & Seerat a nabi?

...We dont mind.
TB,

I am nobody, but Allah has already given his decision in the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad has demonstrated it most unambigously with his practical behaviour and impeccable life based on the Quran throughout his brief earthly existence. Do the syedna's actions and his life even remotely match it? Do you read and understand the quran or you depend on some self-confessed charlatan to translate it for you? if you did, you would not be asking such stupid questions.

yes, of course religious frauds and tricksters like you would love to be left alone .. and you wouldnt mind at all! but thats not happening pal, not unless you confess and your masters confess that they are burhanvis, a religious sect which is its own religion, nothing to do with islam or the pristine dawoodi bohra faith it has usurped.

we will not mind you guys then...
AZ,
Yes, Sayednas life & action are as per sunnah of prophet mohammed (saw) & duats of earlier time. What hurts you most the lifestyle? what is wrong? is living a life of comfort and liuxury a crime? It you who depend on translation of self confessed scholars. We depend upon the Dai whose nass has been handed down by generations from Imam to dai in succession. Do you believe it ore not? The reality is you dont. Your accusation for us is same as of others who considered bohras different than sunnis & wahabbis.
Nothing is going to change the fact that its you who are trying to prove your legitimacy to us & not other way round. We dont need to prove anything. as said earlier you accept Allah or receject it. You accept imam or reject it. You accept dai or reject it. There is no middle ground. We accept Allah , his Imam & His Dai (tus) & you reject them.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:36 am

is living a life of comfort and liuxury a crime?
Yes it is if it is paid for by others willingly or, as in most cases, unwillingly.
Yes, Sayednas life & action are as per sunnah of prophet mohammed (saw) & duats of earlier time.
No it is not. The prophet (saw) preached the Quran and its message and converted the entire Arabian Peninsula to Islam in 23 years. How many people has your Dai converted to Islam in 50 years?
We accept Allah , his Imam & His Dai (tus) & you reject them.
That is shirk 101. Condition of being a muslim is to accept Allah only. There is no Imam or Dai to share in the glory of Allah. If you have an Imam or a Dai without which you are not a muslim, then you are already not a muslim but a mushrik.

asif786
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:40 am

Re: Progressive matam

#22

Unread post by asif786 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:09 am

truebohra wrote:
AZ,
Yes, Sayednas life & action are as per sunnah of prophet mohammed (saw) & duats of earlier time. What hurts you most the lifestyle? what is wrong? is living a life of comfort and liuxury a crime?
The Thirty-Second Greater Sin: Isrāf

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The thirty-second sin, which has been mentioned in the Qur’an and traditions as a Greater sin, is Isrāf or wasteful expenditure. It is enumerated among the Greater Sins in the tradition of Fazl Ibn Shazān from Imam Riďa (a.s.) and also in the tradition of Amash from Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.). The Qur’anic verses and traditions, both, confirm that wasteful expenditure is a Greater sin. First we shall quote these ayats and traditions and then delve into the various aspects of this sin. The Holy Qur’an says,
“…and eat and drink and be not extravagant; surely He does not love the extravagant.”
(Surah al-Ar’āf 7:31)
The above ayat suffices to show the dislike of Almighty Allah (S.w.T.) for the extravagant people. According to some exegesists of the Qur’an one who is not loved by Allah (S.w.T.) is doomed to perdition because the love of Allah (S.w.T.) implies Divine rewards.

According to Tafsīr Majmaul Bayan, Bakhti Shoa was the personal physician of Harūn al-Rashid. He was a Christian. One day he asked Waqidi, “Does your Holy book contain any medical knowledge?” Waqidi replied, “The Almighty Allah (S.w.T.) has condensed the complete medical knowledge in a single verse,

“...And eat and drink and be not extravagant.”

“Did your Prophet mention anything about this branch of knowledge?” asked the physician.
“Yes,” said Waqidi, “he has described the medical sciences in a brief sentence.
‘The stomach is the house of pain and abstinence is the most important medicine. Everyone should be given the amount (of food) he needs.’”
Upon hearing this, the Christian remarked, “Your Book and your Prophet have not omitted anything from medical science and Galen (the Greek physician) had nothing more to say.”
The Almighty Allah (S.w.T.) says in the Qur’an,

“...eat of its fruit when it bears fruit, and pay the due of it on the day of its reaping, and do not act extravagantly; surely He does not love the extravagant.”

(Surah al-’An’ām 6:141)

A verse in Surah Ghāfir states,

“Thus does Allah cause him to err who is extravagant, a doubter.”

(Surah Ghāfir, 40:34)

Similarly,

“...the extravagant are the inmates of the fire.”

(Surah Ghāfir, 40:43)
Also,

“And thus do We recompense him who is extravagant and does not believe in the communication of his Lord; and certainly the chastisement of the Hereafter is severer and more lasting.”

(Surah Tā Hā, 20:127)

Allah the Almighty again says,


“...and do not squander wastefully, surely the squanderers are the followers of the shaitans and the Shaitan is ever ungrateful to his Lord.”

(Surah al-‘Isrā’, 17:26-27)



(Wasa’il ul-Shia)

The Imam (a.s.) has also said:

“Fear Allah and be not extravagant nor miserly. Be moderate. Verily, extravagance is waste. The Almighty Allah says, ‘And do not waste!’ Certainly Allah has never punished the people who practise moderation.”

(Mustadrak ul-Wasa’il)


In a tradition, from the book Faqih, the Holy Prophet (S) describes the various prohibited acts and states that the house one builds extravagantly and for show-off will be raised to seven floors by the Almighty Allah on the Day of Qiyāma. Allah (S.w.T.) will kindle that building and make it into a necklace and place it on the neck of that person. Then He will toss him into the fire. The people requested the Holy Prophet (S) to explain how a person can build a house for show-off. The Prophet (S) explained that it denotes a house, which is more than needed, and one that is constructed to show the superiority of the owner over other Muslim brothers.



Amir ul-Mu’minīn ‘Ali (a.s.) says:

“Whenever Allah intends goodness from His servants, He reveals to him to live moderately and spend his life in the best way and keeps him away from extravagance and prodigality.”

(Mustadrak ul-Wasa’il)

Hazrat Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.) says:

“Do you think if Allah has bestowed someone with wealth, it is because he is His beloved? And if He has given less to someone it is because he is low? No! It is not so. Whatever wealth is there, it all belongs to Allah. Allah gives it to whomsoever He wishes as a trust and He has permitted the trustee to eat, drink, wear clothes, marry, and ride from it, (but) in moderation. If he has excess he must distribute it among the poor and fulfill their needs. Then whoever follows the Divine commands, whatever he has eaten, drunk, worn, married and riden in moderation; all this is lawful for him and if he does not act upon it, everything is Harām.”

Then Imam (a.s.) recited the ayat,



“And do not be extravagant, Allah does not love the squanderers.”



Then he continued,

“Do you think it proper that a person purchases from the wealth which Allah has entrusted him, a horse costing 10,000 dirhams when he could have bought an animal worth 20 dirhams?; and it would have sufficed for him. Or if he purchase a slave-girl at a cost of a thousand dirhams when he could have got one in twenty dinars and quite sufficient for him? When the Almighty says,


‘Do not spend wastefully.’


(One who wastes and squanders money has done Khayanat in the trust of Allah (S.w.T.)).

(Mustadrak ul-Wasa’il)

Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.) has said that if a person is extravagant and later becomes poor due to it, his invocations will not be accepted. Then if he says “O Allah grant me health,” Allah (S.w.T.) says, “Had I not ordered you moderation?”

asif786
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:40 am

Re: Progressive matam

#23

Unread post by asif786 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:56 am

From the above versus of the holy quran and sayings of ahlul bayt a.s it proves that syedna and his family is living a life which is not in line with teachings of holy quran but follow Muwaiway and his likes

sufisaint
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:24 am

Re: Progressive matam

#24

Unread post by sufisaint » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:39 am

asif786 wrote:From the above versus of the holy quran and sayings of ahlul bayt a.s it proves that syedna and his family is living a life which is not in line with teachings of holy quran but follow Muwaiway and his likes
what about imam hakim(s) and other Imam(s) who were rulers,and lived a good life?

truebohra
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#25

Unread post by truebohra » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:48 am

anajmi wrote:
is living a life of comfort and liuxury a crime?
Yes it is if it is paid for by others willingly or, as in most cases, unwillingly.
Yes, Sayednas life & action are as per sunnah of prophet mohammed (saw) & duats of earlier time.
No it is not. The prophet (saw) preached the Quran and its message and converted the entire Arabian Peninsula to Islam in 23 years. How many people has your Dai converted to Islam in 50 years?
We accept Allah , his Imam & His Dai (tus) & you reject them.
That is shirk 101. Condition of being a muslim is to accept Allah only. There is no Imam or Dai to share in the glory of Allah. If you have an Imam or a Dai without which you are not a muslim, then you are already not a muslim but a mushrik.
Yes it is if it is paid for by others willingly or, as in most cases, unwillingly. -- How do you know? False accusation is also a sin.

No it is not. The prophet (saw) preached the Quran and its message and converted the entire Arabian Peninsula to Islam in 23 years. How many people has your Dai converted to Islam in 50 years? -- Is it like if you convert others than only you are muslim?


That is shirk 101. Condition of being a muslim is to accept Allah only. There is no Imam or Dai to share in the glory of Allah. If you have an Imam or a Dai without which you are not a muslim, then you are already not a muslim but a mushrik. -- It is your belief & not of Dawoodi Bohras & this include progressives also. Just being muslim is not enough you need to have love for his imam & dai. Yazeed (LA) & Muwaviya (LA) were muslim and everybody knows where they are burning.

truebohra
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Progressive matam

#26

Unread post by truebohra » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:52 am

asif786 wrote:
truebohra wrote:
AZ,
Yes, Sayednas life & action are as per sunnah of prophet mohammed (saw) & duats of earlier time. What hurts you most the lifestyle? what is wrong? is living a life of comfort and liuxury a crime?
The Thirty-Second Greater Sin: Isrāf

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The thirty-second sin, which has been mentioned in the Qur’an and traditions as a Greater sin, is Isrāf or wasteful expenditure. It is enumerated among the Greater Sins in the tradition of Fazl Ibn Shazān from Imam Riďa (a.s.) and also in the tradition of Amash from Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.). The Qur’anic verses and traditions, both, confirm that wasteful expenditure is a Greater sin. First we shall quote these ayats and traditions and then delve into the various aspects of this sin. The Holy Qur’an says,
“…and eat and drink and be not extravagant; surely He does not love the extravagant.”
(Surah al-Ar’āf 7:31)
The above ayat suffices to show the dislike of Almighty Allah (S.w.T.) for the extravagant people. According to some exegesists of the Qur’an one who is not loved by Allah (S.w.T.) is doomed to perdition because the love of Allah (S.w.T.) implies Divine rewards.

According to Tafsīr Majmaul Bayan, Bakhti Shoa was the personal physician of Harūn al-Rashid. He was a Christian. One day he asked Waqidi, “Does your Holy book contain any medical knowledge?” Waqidi replied, “The Almighty Allah (S.w.T.) has condensed the complete medical knowledge in a single verse,

“...And eat and drink and be not extravagant.”

“Did your Prophet mention anything about this branch of knowledge?” asked the physician.
“Yes,” said Waqidi, “he has described the medical sciences in a brief sentence.
‘The stomach is the house of pain and abstinence is the most important medicine. Everyone should be given the amount (of food) he needs.’”
Upon hearing this, the Christian remarked, “Your Book and your Prophet have not omitted anything from medical science and Galen (the Greek physician) had nothing more to say.”
The Almighty Allah (S.w.T.) says in the Qur’an,

“...eat of its fruit when it bears fruit, and pay the due of it on the day of its reaping, and do not act extravagantly; surely He does not love the extravagant.”

(Surah al-’An’ām 6:141)

A verse in Surah Ghāfir states,

“Thus does Allah cause him to err who is extravagant, a doubter.”

(Surah Ghāfir, 40:34)

Similarly,

“...the extravagant are the inmates of the fire.”

(Surah Ghāfir, 40:43)
Also,

“And thus do We recompense him who is extravagant and does not believe in the communication of his Lord; and certainly the chastisement of the Hereafter is severer and more lasting.”

(Surah Tā Hā, 20:127)

Allah the Almighty again says,


“...and do not squander wastefully, surely the squanderers are the followers of the shaitans and the Shaitan is ever ungrateful to his Lord.”

(Surah al-‘Isrā’, 17:26-27)



(Wasa’il ul-Shia)

The Imam (a.s.) has also said:

“Fear Allah and be not extravagant nor miserly. Be moderate. Verily, extravagance is waste. The Almighty Allah says, ‘And do not waste!’ Certainly Allah has never punished the people who practise moderation.”

(Mustadrak ul-Wasa’il)


In a tradition, from the book Faqih, the Holy Prophet (S) describes the various prohibited acts and states that the house one builds extravagantly and for show-off will be raised to seven floors by the Almighty Allah on the Day of Qiyāma. Allah (S.w.T.) will kindle that building and make it into a necklace and place it on the neck of that person. Then He will toss him into the fire. The people requested the Holy Prophet (S) to explain how a person can build a house for show-off. The Prophet (S) explained that it denotes a house, which is more than needed, and one that is constructed to show the superiority of the owner over other Muslim brothers.



Amir ul-Mu’minīn ‘Ali (a.s.) says:

“Whenever Allah intends goodness from His servants, He reveals to him to live moderately and spend his life in the best way and keeps him away from extravagance and prodigality.”

(Mustadrak ul-Wasa’il)

Hazrat Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.) says:

“Do you think if Allah has bestowed someone with wealth, it is because he is His beloved? And if He has given less to someone it is because he is low? No! It is not so. Whatever wealth is there, it all belongs to Allah. Allah gives it to whomsoever He wishes as a trust and He has permitted the trustee to eat, drink, wear clothes, marry, and ride from it, (but) in moderation. If he has excess he must distribute it among the poor and fulfill their needs. Then whoever follows the Divine commands, whatever he has eaten, drunk, worn, married and riden in moderation; all this is lawful for him and if he does not act upon it, everything is Harām.”

Then Imam (a.s.) recited the ayat,



“And do not be extravagant, Allah does not love the squanderers.”



Then he continued,

“Do you think it proper that a person purchases from the wealth which Allah has entrusted him, a horse costing 10,000 dirhams when he could have bought an animal worth 20 dirhams?; and it would have sufficed for him. Or if he purchase a slave-girl at a cost of a thousand dirhams when he could have got one in twenty dinars and quite sufficient for him? When the Almighty says,


‘Do not spend wastefully.’


(One who wastes and squanders money has done Khayanat in the trust of Allah (S.w.T.)).

(Mustadrak ul-Wasa’il)

Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.) has said that if a person is extravagant and later becomes poor due to it, his invocations will not be accepted. Then if he says “O Allah grant me health,” Allah (S.w.T.) says, “Had I not ordered you moderation?”
Can you point out Extravagant or wasteful spending of food /drink / clothets by Sayedna?
I expect not you all not to jump & rant. Give meaningful example.

asif786
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:40 am

Re: Progressive matam

#27

Unread post by asif786 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:56 am

sufisaint wrote:
asif786 wrote:From the above versus of the holy quran and sayings of ahlul bayt a.s it proves that syedna and his family is living a life which is not in line with teachings of holy quran but follow Muwaiway and his likes
what about imam hakim(s) and other Imam(s) who were rulers,and lived a good life?
Imams were kings of there times were living opulent lifestyle from there own money and not begging and looting like syedna and his family and as i dont have enough knowledge about them would not like to answer this and will leave for some other members to answer .

asif786
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:40 am

Re: Progressive matam

#28

Unread post by asif786 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:02 am

truebohra wrote:
Can you point out Extravagant or wasteful spending of food /drink / clothets by Sayedna?
I expect not you all not to jump & rant. Give meaningful example.
Bro
are you joking ? syedna and his families life style is full of ayyashi , spending money on lavish jaman like muwaiya , spending money on hunting trips , first class travels,big palaces, roles wachtes worth more than usd 100K and much more.

Pls refer to the life style of rasullah saw and amirul munimeen a.s and you will understand this . if not, than may god help you
ws

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Progressive matam

#29

Unread post by profastian » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:05 am

asif786 wrote:
truebohra wrote:
Can you point out Extravagant or wasteful spending of food /drink / clothets by Sayedna?
I expect not you all not to jump & rant. Give meaningful example.
Bro
are you joking ? syedna and his families life style is full of ayyashi , spending money on lavish jaman like muwaiya , spending money on hunting trips , first class travels,big palaces, roles wachtes worth more than usd 100K and much more.

Pls refer to the life style of rasullah saw and amirul munimeen a.s and you will understand this . if not, than may god help you
ws
The Ayah says food, drink, clothes..
Have you ever been to a ziyafat of Syedna. Do you know how much he eats. Or for that matter, have you ever seen how much qasr-e-aali eats?
What is the extravagence in clothes? Do they wear any designer clothes?

sufisaint
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:24 am

Re: Progressive matam

#30

Unread post by sufisaint » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:23 am

profastian wrote:
asif786 wrote: Bro
are you joking ? syedna and his families life style is full of ayyashi , spending money on lavish jaman like muwaiya , spending money on hunting trips , first class travels,big palaces, roles wachtes worth more than usd 100K and much more.

Pls refer to the life style of rasullah saw and amirul munimeen a.s and you will understand this . if not, than may god help you
ws
The Ayah says food, drink, clothes..
Have you ever been to a ziyafat of Syedna. Do you know how much he eats. Or for that matter, have you ever seen how much qasr-e-aali eats?
What is the extravagence in clothes? Do they wear any designer clothes?
yeah thats the point,he cant eat more but still he doesnt stops people from making so many dishes and keep them in thaal,this is what is called ishraaf