Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

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ghulam muhammed
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Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#1

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:22 pm

What is the importance of 'Sakina bensaab' whose tomb is at charni road, mumbai and which is frequented by most of the abdes ? I mean, was she an extraordinary pious lady or has she made any sacrifices for the cause of Islam or Bohraism ? From whatever we know the only criteria of giving her the so called honourable place is that she was the daughter of the late dai, Taher Saifuddin saab, other then that nothing is virtually known of her. The other obvious reason of making a special tomb for her is the 'galla' income but then why no other siblings of the late or present dai given the same treatment ?

Hussain_KSA
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#2

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:50 am

Brother Gm

Did you every visit Najam Baugh ( Dawood Pura earliar) the bohra grave yard in Aurangabad city of Maharashtra? There are graves of Mulla Vali Bhai shaheed and Syed Najam khan Saheb (Mazoon e dawat who was stripped of his title by Dai due to some misunderstanding). You will find a small grave of parrot. I have seen the people putting flowers and kissing the parrot as they say this was parrot of Syed Najam Khan saheb who used to recite the quranic verses.

When people can do ziyarat to mere a bird of mazoon, than sakina ben saheb was daughter of the Dai and God on the earth.

You should read two rakat salat of Tauba and do not repeat it again ;-)

Aymelek
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#3

Unread post by Aymelek » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:39 am

If i am not mistaken there is a grave of a camel in hasanfeer (denmaal).

Bohras do ziarat of the same, as the camel belonged to Hasan Pir Saheb and killed alongwith him.

Conscíous
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#4

Unread post by Conscíous » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:44 am

^^
Hahaha :mrgreen: .. this people are so insane ...

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#5

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:48 pm

if i remember right, young sakina, the daughter of the late syedna, had eloped with a sikh man (the non turban wearing type) with whom she was in love. this had caused a great scandal within the inner circles and alarm bells were raised. during those days women of the dai's household were not as strictly restricted as they are today from mingling with the public.

sakina was eventually found and cajoled very cleverly in returning back to her family, with promises that everything would be set right and her sins pardoned, the usual calming tactics. but once she did return, she was closely confined within the palace walls and effectively made a prisoner. she was extremely distraught because she had in secret married the man she loved and could not bear to be apart from him. no amount of pleading or wailing from her side was entertained and in total despair she finally either committed suicide or died of illness as she denied herself food and nourishment.

in order to whitewash this entire episode and to show grief at her tragic passing, she was enshrined and rumours were spread of her miracles. of course, the frequent visitations of her father to her grave helped to push this story. it is said that sakina was in fact a very loving and caring woman who had a lot of empathy for the poor and downtrodden, those suffering from pain and misery. she displayed very loving qualities in her behaviour and had endeared herself to everyone, particularly her father.

as for the aspect of miracles performed by her for those who take her mannat, well... the power of suggestion and the placebo effect as we may call it, cannot be explained and with the mass of collective faith and stories of miraculous happenings, it can influence others enough to make them believe, a la sai baba, or tirupati balaji or haji ali and myriads of other 'saints'.

she may have been undoubtedly an innocent person of very good and loving character, a sad victim of her circumstances, but who became a bigger pawn in the manipulative game of her father and his family after her tragic death.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#6

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:10 pm

the silence of the abdes on this subject is deafening, to say the least.

whenever there is something highly embarassing to the die-hard fanatics which shows up their slave masters in a bad light, they either maintain a conspiracy of silence or go all out with personal attacks. i am sure many veterans of this forum will vouch for the same. what does this prove? that they are cowards and complicit in hiding the shenanigans of the rascals in saifee mahal.

humanbeing
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#7

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:18 am

Hi AZ

Even I m surprised at your write up. Not that I refute your post, lot of things goes on in the “Royal family”, commoners don’t come to know, moreover, its their personal problem as long as it doesn’t involve faith and money of commoners.

Creating a ritual of Ziyarat as you mentioned in the post is wrong, whatever be the qualifications of the Late Sakina Bhensaheba”

“Bade Gharo ke Raaz bhi Bade hote hai”

S. Insaf
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#8

Unread post by S. Insaf » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:51 pm

The details provided about late Syedna Saheb's daughter, Sakina by Al Zulfiqar was very much in news when this incident had happened. I remember one Miya saheb, Ebrahimji while discussing this incident with my nanaji (grandfather) Haji Qamruddin Saifee Storewala had said that "right from beginning food-poisoning is very common in Dawat history, Syedna Badruddin, Dayam, Tayeb bhai Saheb, Husaina I-saheba and now this innocent Sakina." This Miya Saheb had come to Dewas (M.P.) and was my grandfather's guest.

Kaka Akela
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#9

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:47 pm

With my apologies to brother Al Zulfiqar and S. Insaf, I think the girl was only 4 years old and a good reciter of Quran. Syedna Taher saifuddin saheb loved her recitation and to hurt him the muafiqeen of those days poisoned the little girl.
I can not explain the mojezas of her but she was an innocent young soul who did recite the quran very well and that may be the reqason for her mojezas.

JC
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#10

Unread post by JC » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:38 pm

It happens in every worldly dictatorial so-called royal families ......... there is nothing divine, so these things are bound to happen.

asad
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#11

Unread post by asad » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:46 am

so did a 4 year old kid ran with a sardar boy, or the girls mental condition was same as a 4 year old when she died due to poisoning, surely it becomes interesting day by day.

humanbeing
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#12

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:52 am

Hi KA

As you mentioned about recitation of Quran and Ability of person to perform Mojizas (Miracle) its absurd. Infact any notion of Mojiza by a person sounds vague.

What is the obsession for Mojizas. Anyone is claiming to be Mojiza na Saheb. This belief in Mojizas and All create superstitions and blind faith, raising mortal humans to levels of Angel and Gods.

Quran is a book revealed by Allah to guide human kinds for a peaceful and organized living. The profound magic I see in Quran is the virtue and value it brings to streamline human behaviour.

Why cant a simple living be a mojiza, there are heroes who are struggling life everyday, fighting poverty, oppression, crushing dreams and still smiling, brave soldiers facing death on borders for strangers like us, struggling parents, selfless philanthropist, social workers, handicapped people living life with impressive optimism, Researchers and inventors, discoverers and explorers why cant this struggles be called miracles .. why some person, one person, group of person, claim to be miracle makers. Me .. you .. we .. everyone among us is capable of making miracles .. we are little heroes in our lives .. Someday, some moment we live life extraordinarily. There are millions of people living life everyday, performing their duties and responsibilities, earning their livelihood. But when someone from royal family works; their hardwork is raised to high pedestal, their achievement is considered miracle and Shanaat, their struggle is revered as Takleef, their literacy is respected as “Ketla Bhanelaa che”

Why cant we accept turn of events in our lives as destined or consequences of our actions, choices and decisions. It’s a convenient thought amongst masses :

“Agar apni marzi hai to khuda ki marzi … Agar dusro ki marzi hai to injustice”

He worked by day
And toiled by night.
He gave up play
and some delight.
Dry books he read,
new things to learn.
And forged ahead ,
Success to earn
He plodded on with,
Faith and pluck;
And when he won,
Men called it luck

like_minded
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#13

Unread post by like_minded » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:41 am

Bro Human

An excellent post!!!!!!!!!!!!! An eye-opener for those who live in a spell created by the God-pedaling faith jockeys.

Keep up the good work!

JC
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#14

Unread post by JC » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:00 am

Indeed a very good post Humanbeing.

This is the very thing abdes (and abdes outside Bohraism) do not understand. Quran is a book to be read and understood and researched, it is a reference book, it is practical if you try to understand and apply - but no, it is sacred, Ahnay Parwa Ma Sawab Chay ....... hello, what about understanding and following?? People just 'read' it. This whole notion of barakat and sawab (janat. jahanum etc) is a scam, farce ........ they are selling NOTHING for a very high price!! It is amazing to learn that 'imagination' can be sold too, 'dreams' can be auctioned too, and it is more amazing that there are people who buy it ........!!!!!!!!!

anajmi
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#15

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:39 am

He worked by day
And toiled by night.
He gave up play
and some delight.
Dry books he read,
new things to learn.
And forged ahead ,
Success to earn
He plodded on with,
Faith and pluck;
And when he won,
Men called it luck
There is a reason for that. Most people on earth fall in the category of those who work hard, but most people do not get a chance to win. If just hard work would've been enough to win, then Bill Gates wouldn't be the richest person in the world after dropping out of school. More than 90% of the people on earth are honest and hardworking people who fall in the category of middle or lower middle or poor class.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#16

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:41 pm

Kaka Akela wrote:With my apologies to brother Al Zulfiqar and S. Insaf, I think the girl was only 4 years old and a good reciter of Quran. Syedna Taher saifuddin saheb loved her recitation and to hurt him the muafiqeen of those days poisoned the little girl.
I can not explain the mojezas of her but she was an innocent young soul who did recite the quran very well and that may be the reqason for her mojezas.
ka,

that sakina was a good and innocent girl, we cannot deny, but from where did you get this fact that she was only 4 yrs old and she was poisoned by syedna taher's enemies? this is not only completely wrong but implies that the dai's enemies (can you please clarify who?) were people of such despicable character as to murder a young girl to settle scores with her father?? does this even make sense or is logically acceptable? it was syedna taher's wont to settle scores with HIS enemies by eliminating them, as is patently obvious from the present dai's silence about his mother or the lukmanji family (ex-syedna's mamaji) boycotting taher saifuddin.

a quick visit to sakina's grave on charni road and the inscriptions on it will settle the question of her age.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#17

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:43 pm

welcome back bhai saifuddin!!

good to see you again.

humanbeing
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#18

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:52 am

There is a reason for that. Most people on earth fall in the category of those who work hard, but most people do not get a chance to win. If just hard work would've been enough to win, then Bill Gates wouldn't be the richest person in the world after dropping out of school. More than 90% of the people on earth are honest and hardworking people who fall in the category of middle or lower middle or poor class.
Hi Anajmi

The question here is not about getting successful or getting rich. Perception of rich and successful is very subjective. There is a famous saying :
“Waqt se Pehle or Naseeb se Zyada kisi ko kuch nahi milta”

Nevertheless we have to keep striving to make our ends meet. For me richer is the person who is content with his livelihood and successful is the person who accomplishes given task at hand. Other wise, no wealth in this world can satisfy man’s greed and no achievements are enough to conclude a man successful.

And how do you conclude Bill Gates was a lazy, non hard working person, did he make millions and acquire fame sitting at home watching TV ? Hardwork cannot be measured, success cannot be counted. It’s an intangible value as per the perception and satisfaction levels in Human minds.

Also the context of the poem somewhere relates to Bohra community mentality that; if a bohra mumin is getting wealthier or sucessful its because of the barakaat of paying wajebat and blessings of Sayedna Saheb, whereas if one suffers loss or problem in the family is because of non payment or less payment of wajebaat.

anajmi
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#19

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:48 am

humanbeing
For me richer is the person who is content with his livelihood and successful is the person who accomplishes given task at hand.
These two items are not apparent to others who would then judge that it is luck or hard work.
Bill Gates


I was simply referring to your own poem. The most important point that I am trying to make is that more than 90% of the people on earth are honest and hardworking people who fall in the category of middle or lower middle or poor class. People who are trying to make ends meet every single day and most of them are unable to. We can safely say that they are not the ones who have "won" anything. When we say that they are content, we are just giving ourselves an excuse to avoid doing anything about it.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#20

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:30 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote: where did you get this fact that she was only 4 yrs old
Although I cannot comment on Bro.AZ's observation as Iam not aware of her exact age but a point to be noted is that the graves of children are usually very smaller in size but in Sakina's case the size of her grave is that of an adult.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#21

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:07 pm

perhaps it is time for those great defenders of DABR faith - adam. aqs, prof etc - to weigh in with their highly erudite comments on sakina's ziyarat mystery?

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#22

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:29 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:perhaps it is time for those great defenders of DABR faith - adam. aqs, prof etc - to weigh in with their highly erudite comments on sakina's ziyarat mystery?
They are bound their oath of secrecy in the tawil sabaks.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#23

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:49 am

adam,

why the silence on this thread?

too shy? confused what to comment? feeling afraid?

Adam
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#24

Unread post by Adam » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:06 pm

Oh God! You're still at it?

:)

Adam
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#25

Unread post by Adam » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:06 pm

Oh God! You're still at it?

:)

ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#26

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:37 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:a quick visit to sakina's grave on charni road and the inscriptions on it will settle the question of her age
I dont think there are any inscriptions on her grave.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#27

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:21 pm

adam's silence on this eloquent...!

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#28

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:37 pm

Adam and his coherts have still not been able to justify the above average status given to the late Miss Sakina and if at all their argument is that the same is in accordance with all other zadas/zadis in lieu of they being the dai's sibling then why arent other zadas/zadis who have passed away are not given even a tenth of importance as compared to her ?

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#29

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:36 pm

bro. gm,

thats because it is a well-known strategy in deception, that to cover an awkward truth, one must cover it with such a monstrous lie that no one would even imagine what the truth would be and it would get buried deep under the mound of shit!

level_headed
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Re: Ziarat Of The Dai's Daughter at Charni Road, Mumbai.

#30

Unread post by level_headed » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:08 pm

Very profound thoughts Syedi Al Zulfikar BS Ramsay .
Su tamaari niraali shaan chhe